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03 Apr 00 - 08:41 PM (#206266) Subject: DigiTrad used for linguistic research From: GUEST,Jim Dixon Besides folk music, one of my interests is language. For a long time I have followed The Mavens' Word of the Day, a web site that belongs to Random House, a publisher of dictionaries, among other stuff. (The site used to be called "Jesse's Word of the Day" when it was edited by Jesse Sheidlower, and, IMHO, it was better then.) The writers of this column are supposedly on the editorial staff of the Random House dictionaries. On March 13 one the Mavens attempted to explain the origin and meaning of Jimmy crack corn, and in passing, said "I can't find any evidence of 'corn' being used [to mean 'liquor'] independently of the phrases 'corn liquor' or 'corn juice.'" Well, there was a challenge! I immediately searched DigiTrad for the word "corn" and found four examples, and e-mailed them to the Mavens, to wit: TRUE BLUE BILL/ "And I beat up on my old man and drank his riot corn." ROCKY TOP/ (Boudleaux Bryant and Felice Bryant, 1967) "Corn won't grow at all on Rocky Top/ Dirt's too rocky by far;/ That why all the folks on Rocky Top/ Get their corn from a jar." THE MARTINS AND THE COYS / (Ted Werems and Al Cameron, 1936)/ "They went out to do some killin'/ Where the Martins was distillin',/ And they found old Abel Martin makin' corn." HAND ME DOWN MY WALKIN' CANE/ "Hand me down my bottle of corn./ I won't be home till the early morn"/ (Or "Gonna get drunk as sure as you're born") As you might guess, I was quite excited by the possibility that I was thus able to contribute to language scholarship, and I had dreams of having my name mentioned in the next edition of the Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, or better yet, the Oxford English Dictionary. But, as it turns out, my chickens were not ready to hatch. I went to a college library the next day to check the OED, and I found that the use of "corn" to mean "corn liquor" had already been well documented. Furthermore, Random House's own dictionary mentioned it too! So what's the matter with the Mavens? Don't they read their own dictionary? They did, however, amend the archive copy of the March 13 column by adding a brief postscript to acknowledge my contribution, so I guess I've had my 15 minutes of fame. Unfortunately, they didn't mention DigiTrad or Mudcat, although I had cited them in my e-mail. Still, I think DigiTrad may be a useful source of examples of unusual word usage. If any of you Mudcats are interested in this, I urge you to read the OED's Appeal for Readers as well as How to Contribute. Other publishers collect data from the public too, but none is so thorough and systematic about it as the OED. I would also like to urge those who post songs to DigiTrad, to cite a published source whenever possible, especially a date. Even if a song is "traditional," even if its author is unknown, even if it is clearly in the public domain, it is still highly useful for researchers to be able to trace the song back to its earliest publication in print. |
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04 Apr 00 - 05:36 AM (#206412) Subject: Hints for posting lyrics From: Joe Offer Great story, Jim. Serves as a good reminder that what we post here at the 'Cat may be important to somebody else, so it's important to take care with what you post. If you're posting lyrics, tune, or background information for a song, try to be as complete and accurate as you can be. Also, try to keep all discussion of a song in a single thread, so all the information people provide about that song can be seen at once. If you want to respond to an old thread, use the filter or search engine to find that thread, and then post a reply to the existing thread - don't start a new thread on the same subject. If you know the songwriter's name, please be sure to include it. If not, put "unknown" or "traditional" (whichever is appropriate). Sometimes, people even post songs they've written themselves and don't include their name as songwriter - that can really be confusing and frustrating. Remember that the Mudcat Forum is a primary source of lyrics for the Digital Tradition, and it's important for us to maintain the reputation of our database as the best folk songbook the world has ever seen. -Joe Offer- |
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04 Apr 00 - 06:22 AM (#206414) Subject: RE: DigiTrad used for linguistic research From: GUEST,Bill in Alabama Jim-- This is a good example of how the folk vernacular can be valuable in contributing to language study. There is much in the traditional songs in addition to entertainment value. Bill |
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04 Apr 00 - 10:38 AM (#206509) Subject: RE: DigiTrad used for linguistic research From: Dale Rose As to accuracy, mentioned by both Jim and Joe, I can attest, having had access to the original sheet music, that the phrase in True Blue Bill is not riot corn, but rye and corn. For whatever reason, the version I posted didn't make it into the digitrad, but you can find it here, just scroll down a bit. Jon's version was from memory, and a whole lot better than I could ever have done, and as an ORAL version which has been handed down has a lot of value, but I would recommend that the version I gave be added as well. (Bill can now check me to see if I made any mistakes, too!) |
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04 Apr 00 - 11:24 AM (#206536) Subject: RE: DigiTrad used for linguistic research From: Jacob B I was surprised that the song "Hot Corn, Cold Corn" didn't show up, but it doesn't seem to be in the Digitrad. It was recorded by the Holy Modal Rounders, and includes the line "Hot corn, cold corn, bring along a demijohn." |
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04 Apr 00 - 01:34 PM (#206596) Subject: RE: DigiTrad used for linguistic research From: GUEST,Mrrzy-at-work This would mean that anyone, before posting anything, have to research whether any prior threads existed on it, which is nigh unto impossible. I was told that I ought to have done that when asking for the lyrics to the Country Gentlemen's version of Two Little Boys, whereas what I had done was see if that version were already in the database. Turns out the thread was years old and didn't spell things the way I did, so I think that if I had done such a search, I still would not have found it... Also, threads get llllllllllloooooooooonnnnnnnnngggggggggg sometimes. I had posted to the World Where Are You one, and later saw that someone had split off a smaller subthread for better loading, but the smaller one doesn't have my comment on it so I am not even sure how it got split up... And I'm a linguist too (in case you hadn't figured that out by my thread on jargon in folksongs)! So this was very interesting! |
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04 Apr 00 - 04:29 PM (#206663) Subject: Posting Lyrics and Song Requests From: Joe Offer Hi, Mrrzy - That's exactly what we're asking for - that people take a moment to look around themselves for information, before asking the rest of us to look on their behalf. See my explanation in the Mudcat FAQ (click). -Joe Offer- |