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15 Apr 00 - 06:59 AM (#212157) Subject: John Foreman From: scouse First thanks once again for the help with the Rat Catchers Daughter, I heard John Forman singing it years ago and I also believe he published two or three books of Broadsode Ballads. Is the Man still around? Are the Books still gettable!!!! Thanks scouse |
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15 Apr 00 - 07:00 AM (#212158) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: scouse Opp's sorry I meant Broadside!!!! |
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15 Apr 00 - 04:28 PM (#212339) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: John Moulden I've been in touch with John recently - The Broadsheet King The Hermitage 89 Harmood Street London NW1 8DT He is still active but ageing - he has at least 2000 assorted pieces of ephemera and some unbound copies of Ashton's "Real Sailor songs" - £25.00 - inquire if you are interested. There are also separate sheets from his version of Hindley's "Curiosities of Street Literature." and copies (whether bound or not, I do not know, at £40.00.) For £2.00 he will send you an envelope containing various pieces of printed ephemera of his own manufacture - some songs, some squibs and jokes. This he calls the "Gallimaufrey" |
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15 Apr 00 - 04:35 PM (#212342) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: McGrath of Harlow I last saw John at the (English) National Folk Festival in 1998 (I think), when he was on great form, swapping tales with Johnny Handle. Hadn't noticeably changed much in 30 years. |
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16 Apr 00 - 11:14 AM (#212636) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Willie-O Hmm, I thought this was about my old friend John Foreman the singing/fiddling logger from Bancroft Ontario. Looks like if that's your name, you have to be an interesting character. Willie-O |
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17 Apr 00 - 07:44 AM (#213018) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Steve Parkes Willie-o, this is John Foreman, the Broadsheet King, to give him his full title. Yes, p-r-e-t-t-y interesting! |
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18 Jun 01 - 06:02 AM (#485873) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: pavane While looking through my old recordings recently (see Nic Jones thread) I came across a recording of John performing at Pontardawe in about 1972 |
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14 Jun 09 - 06:33 PM (#2656419) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: GUEST,ruth andrews Spoke to John a month or so back. He is alive and well and living in Camden Town. |
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14 Jun 09 - 06:42 PM (#2656427) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: McGrath of Harlow Someone please drag him to a computer keyboard and enveigle him into visiting us here!! |
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15 Jun 09 - 05:27 PM (#2657215) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Surreysinger Saw John from a distance at the London Folklore Conference in May, although I regret I don't know him, so can't follow up on that request! |
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16 Jun 09 - 03:00 AM (#2657456) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Jim Carroll 'Ear Tis Not sure that it's John Foreman's; I found it as a separate printed sheet in a second hand copy of Charles Chilton's 'Victorian Folk Songs'. Jim Carroll THE RATCATCHER'S DAUGHTER NOT long ago, in Vestministier, There liv'ed a Ratcatcher's daughter, She did'nt quite live in Vestministier, But t' other side of the vater. Her father caught rats, and she sold sprats, All round and about that qua-rter, And the gentlefolks all did lift there hats To the ratcatcher's pretty little daughter. Doodle dee, doodle dum, ri, da, doo, da, di do. She wore no hat upon her head, No cap nor dandy bonnet: And her hair hung gracefully down her back, Like a bunch of carrots upon it. Now vhen she cried 'Sprats' in Vestministier, She 'ad such a loud sweet woice, sir, You could hear her all down Parliament Street, As far as Charming-Cross, sir. Doodle dee, &c. Now rich and poor from far and near, In matrimony sought her; But to friends and foes she turn'd up her nose, Did the ratcatcher's pretty little daughter. For there was a man sold lilly-vhite sand, In Cupid's net had caught her; And right over head and ears in love Pell the ratcatcher's beau-tiful daughter. Doodle dee, Ac. Now lilly vhite sand so ran in her head, As she vent down to Strand, oh! Instead of crying "do you vant any sprats ?" She cried "D' ye vant any lilly-vhite sand, oh ?" The people vere all amaz'd and thought she was craz'd As she vent down the Strand oh! To hear the gal vith sprats on her head, Crying "D' ye vant any lilly-vhite sand, oh?" Doodle dee, &c. Now ratcatcher's daughter so ran in his head, He could'nt tell vhat he was arter, For instead of crying "D' ye vant any sand ?" He cried "D' ye vant any ratcatcher's daughter?" His donkey cock'd his ears and laughed, And could'nt think what his master was arter, When he heard a man that sold lilly-vhite sand, Cry "D' ye vant any ratcatcher's daughter ?" Doodle dee, &c. Now they had agreed to marri-ed be Upon last Easter Monday ; But the ratcatcher's daughter had a dream That she vould'nt be alive on the Sunday. She vent vunce more for to buy some sprats, And she tumbled into the vater; Then over the head all kivered up with mud, Was the ratcatcher's pretty little daughter. [SPOKEN.]—And, considering the state of the Thames at this here present moment, vhat must she have swallowed! ugh! ugh! Doodle dee, &c. Vhen lilly-vhite sand did hear the news, His eyes ran down vith vater; Says he" In' love I've constant prov'd, Blow me if I'll live long arter." So he cut his throat vith a pane of glass, And stabb'd his donkey arter : So here vas an end of lilly-vhite sand, Donkey, and the ratcatcher's daughter. Doodle dee, &c. The neighbours all, both great and small, Did flock unto the berre-in, And vept that a gal who'd cried out 'sprats' Should be dead as any herre-in. The Corioner's Inquest on her sat, At the sign of 'Jack in the Vater,' To find what made life's sand run out Of the pretty little ratcatcher's daughter. Doodle dee, Ac. The werdick was that too much vet This poor young woman died on; For she made a, hole in the Riviere Thames, Vot the penny steamers ride on ? 'Twas a haccident, they all agreed, And nuffin like self-slaughter; So not guiltee, of fell-in-the-sea, They brought in the ratcatcher's daughter. [SPOKEN.]—Vell, ladies an' gen'lemen—arter the two bodies was resusticated, they burri-ed them both in one seminary—and the epigram vich they writ on the tomb¬stone was:— Doodle dee, Ac. Song 252. |
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16 Jun 09 - 04:44 AM (#2657499) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Nigel Paterson Very glad to hear that John is alive & well. As a performer, he was a frequent visitor to the original Chelmsford Folk Club, much loved & appreciated by the audience. As an expert on Broadside Ballads, his knowledge & advice was often sought by The Halliard when they were forming their repertoire back in the '60s. Nigel Paterson, mandolin, The Halliard. |
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16 Jun 09 - 04:55 AM (#2657506) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: scouse Dear Me, I started this thread back in 2000. Now you tell me he's still alive. How old is John now?? he must be well into his eighties, perhaps more. As Aye, Phil |
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16 Jun 09 - 04:57 AM (#2657508) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: The Borchester Echo I ran into John Foreman a while ago at a funeral, thankfully not his. Indeed, it was quite hard to keep up with him as he strode out from Kew station to Mortlake. He looks not one jot different from I first met him in the 60s (at his local, the Enterprise, Chalk Farm). He'll still perform from time to time, but when he wants to. If you see him lurking at the back of your venue, don't ask him. Then he might . . . |
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18 Jan 12 - 05:48 PM (#3292415) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: GUEST,Duke of Denton Saw John Foreman in Trafalgar Square last week but before I could get to him he jumped onto a 24 bus. I noticed he went upstairs. |
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18 Jan 12 - 11:29 PM (#3292584) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: MGM·Lion Did you know that Chris Foreman, guitarist of famous Ska group Madness, was John's son? 〠☺〠☺〠 |
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19 Jan 12 - 04:36 AM (#3292642) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Will Fly Did you know that Rita Foreman, John's ex-wife, was the washboard player in my London band "The Egbert Sousé All Stars" in the late '60s and early'70s? :-) |
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19 Jan 12 - 05:46 AM (#3292662) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Vic Smith Click on FIRST PHOTO to see my photo of John giving his excellent presentation on "London Customs" as part of the Keith Summers Festival at the King & Queen in Central London on May 8th 2011. Click on SECOND PHOTO to see another photo taken at the same time. Click on THIRD PHOTO to see John in conversation with Rod & Danny Stradling on that day. Oh! ....and Mr Ainscough, I hope that you will be able to reassemble The Egbert Sousé All Stars for at least part of your performance at the Royal Oak in Lewes next week. |
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19 Jan 12 - 06:03 AM (#3292668) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: banjoman I remember John at the Whitchurch Festival back in the 1980's. He sold me a book about Peter Honri for £1.50 which I still have (somewhere). Glad to hear that he is still about |
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19 Jan 12 - 07:48 AM (#3292720) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Charley Noble John was very helpful to me years ago when I was researching "Pity the Downtrodden Landlord." He was also very entertaining when I saw him featured at Sharp's. I'm sure he's still entertaining. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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11 May 14 - 12:23 PM (#3625377) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: GUEST,tom Click below for an interview with him from 2012 http://youtu.be/6qMmpnxj_CQ?t=34m4s |
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11 May 14 - 12:28 PM (#3625378) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: GUEST,tom Here is the link now made clickable |
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12 May 14 - 09:51 AM (#3625429) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: GUEST,leeneia Thanks for posting the song back in 2009, Jim. It's amusing. |
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19 Jul 16 - 05:58 AM (#3800978) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: GUEST A programme about John Foreman is starting soon on BBC Radio 4! http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07kpy3v |
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19 Jul 16 - 06:39 AM (#3800983) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Herga Kitty On BBC Radio 4 now - John's songs - a day with a music hall master! Kitty |
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19 Jul 16 - 06:45 AM (#3800986) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Leadfingers just to help out - Guest's Link |
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22 Jul 16 - 07:18 AM (#3801526) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: GUEST,CJB John Foreman appears on London Folk Song Cellar in the 1960s on episodes 2 / 10 / 24 LFSC 02 John Foreman Villikens And His Dinah LFSC 02 John Foreman Pretty Polly Perkins Of Paddington Green LFSC 10 John Foreman Picking All The Big Ones Out LFSC 10 John Foreman The Winkle Song LFSC 24 John Foreman A Proper Cuppa Coffee We have nos. 10 an 24 but 2 is missing. http://www.mediafire.com/download/4yjdph08w0bg0b7/LFSC_10_-_TD_115636.37_-_RMcL_c4_%28320%29.mp3 http://www.mediafire.com/download/yf4sibmox7jldkj/LFSC_24_-_TD_116871.72_-_MP_%28320%29.mp3 |
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22 Jul 16 - 07:30 AM (#3801530) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: GUEST With clickies ... LFSC 10 LFSC 24 Thanks to Mitch & Robyn Park for finding these. |
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22 Jul 16 - 07:31 PM (#3801613) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: GUEST I really appreciated the recent BBC radio documentary about John Foreman, since I'd never heard of him before (I suppose one reason for that is that I'm not English and don't live in England) - glad that such voices as his are (occasionally) given mainstream airtime. |
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23 Jan 17 - 03:08 PM (#3834348) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: GUEST,Young Buchan For those who missed it last July, the programme was repeated today on Radio 4 and so should be available on IPlayer for the next few weeks. |
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23 Jan 17 - 04:37 PM (#3834365) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Will Fly For those who may be interested, I was chatting to John late last year in London. It was at the funeral of Rita (his ex-wife) and, although it was obviously a sad occasion, he was as engaging as ever when we were talking in the pub after the service at the crematorium. |
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24 Jan 17 - 01:17 AM (#3834443) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Nigel Paterson Very pleased to hear that, Will. John was something of a mentor to 'The Halliard' back in the 60s as we researched & developed our Broadside Ballad repertoire. I hope, one year on, he's still with us. Nigel Paterson. |
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24 Jan 17 - 03:27 AM (#3834455) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Herga Kitty I've just found out that the programme broadcast on 19 July last year was repeated on Radio 4 yesterday afternoon - here's the link! Kitty |
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26 Jan 17 - 11:45 AM (#3835003) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Nigel Paterson Thank you for the link, Kitty. I've only managed to catch a few minutes of the programme so far, but John sounds & looks much like he did in the 60s...complete with hat! I'm amazed at how little he's changed. A lovely, gentle-man in all respects. I hope he finds a good home for all that music he's accumulated, it must be an absolute treasure trove. Nigel Paterson. |
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26 Jan 17 - 06:24 PM (#3835080) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: GUEST,Guest Try again. I managed to get a stand alone recording of this. Bit fiddly but fairly easy. Go to the link. Connect your input and output jack sockets together. Start Audacity (freebie programme) Set recording and output levels to 5/10. Start recording. Start listening to link. Go and have a read or wash the pots or whatever for half an hour. Stop the recording when the link has finished. Label the track. Save via multiple labels. This will give you a WAV file that you can convert to MP3 or your preferred file type. Enjoy. |
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27 Jan 17 - 12:14 PM (#3835195) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Nigel Paterson In the 60s, John self-published (at considerable expense) a superb collection of Broadside Ballads. He also produced a limited number of what he referred to as 'filleted books' which contained some of his particular favourites. John signed them & gave them away to a lucky few, of which I was one. With the passing years & several house moves, my 'filleted book' is no longer to be found. The book may be lost, but the memories linger on. Nigel Paterson. |
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27 Jan 17 - 01:15 PM (#3835201) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Steve Gardham The book John republished was Ashton's 'Real Sailor Songs' with an intro by Bert Lloyd. I still have my copy and it is well used. I have a few of his original broadsides as well which I bought from him when he was doing folk club gigs in the 60s. |
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28 Jan 17 - 07:22 AM (#3835296) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: GUEST,Doh That proves it! (The sign in) Thanks guest guest for tips on getting downloads from BBC radio. Gave it a go and it works fine. |
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28 Jan 17 - 12:18 PM (#3835336) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Nigel Paterson Steve Gardham, are we both writing about the same book...is my: "self-published" the same as your: "republished", or did John publish an additional Broadside collection? Either way, I envy you your copy of 'Real Sailor Songs'. It's pleasing to read that you not only still have it, but it has been well used. JF would be thrilled to know that, I'm sure. Dave, Nic & I have much to be grateful for. John's guidance & advice was invaluable. Nigel Paterson (Mandolin, The Halliard) |
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28 Jan 17 - 02:37 PM (#3835353) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Steve Gardham Sorry for misleading you, Nigel, John also republished Charles Hindley's 2 volume 'Curiosities of Street literature' in 1966, nearly all 19th century and mostly 'last goodnights' and similar printed by Disley and Hodges. I have both volumes and Real Sailor Songs. I'm not aware that he published any other collections but if he did I'd like to know. They won't show up in my indexes as having been published by John as my indexes only show authors. Billy Weekes would probably know and I could email him if he doesn't pop up here. |
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30 Jan 17 - 10:22 AM (#3835702) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Billy Weeks 'Billy Weeks would probably know...' I'd like to pretend that is so Steve, but my filing system (very simple: everything is on the floor somewhere) relied heavily on my memory and that is getting extremely dodgy now. But this gives me the opportunity to add my own few words of appreciation of John Foreman. When I joined the EFDS in the 1950s, expressing a taste for music hall songs in the precincts of CSH was like letting a loud fart in church. My first hearing of John (I think it was in a pub singing room in Clerkenwell) persuaded me that the old songs of my own London background were not, after all, dismissable commercial junk. I was old enough to have heard the likes of Harry Champion,Nat Travers and Nellie Wallace on stage in the dying days of variety, but I had thought it was all over until I heard John's amazing repertoire. In the last two or three years, I have also had the joy of hearing him sing at a Broadside Day at CSH. The audience response was terrific. Times have truly changed at the old cathedral. The VWML itself now takes popular song, in print and on record, as an essential contextual strand in the study of folk song. I have owned two copies of John's splendid re-creation of 'Curiosities of Street Literature'. One of them is now in the library of a friend in Rhode Island. I hope he will eventually be able to paste in a copy of 'The Last Dying Confessions of Donald Trump'. |
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30 Jan 17 - 10:55 AM (#3835707) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Nigel Paterson I'm as certain as I can be that my long-lost 'filleted book' was filleted from 'Curiosities of Street Literature'. Thank you, Steve & Billy for jogging my equally dodgy memory! Nigel. |
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30 Jan 17 - 01:23 PM (#3835740) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Steve Gardham Cheers, John (Billy). A lovely posting! I think I'd swap my whole collection for a copy of that last song! |
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31 Jan 17 - 06:05 AM (#3835879) Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman From: Billy Weeks One last self-indulgent memory before I doze off again: When I was in my teens I was at a wedding when my wicked uncle (the one who liked me to believe he was a burglar) sang 'Wotcher Me Old Brown Son'. It was glorious. Incredibly exciting. In a very small way a 'Seeds of Love' moment (well just a bit).. But returning to John, I think it is sad that he is unlikely to see all the good things that are said about him in this and other threads - unless they are printed out and slid under his door. |