Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio

23 Apr 00 - 06:41 PM (#216705)
Subject: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciation
From: katlaughing

This a beautiful song I found on Barry Finn's site, here.

I want to sing it in song circle, tonight, so I'll figure out some kind of *bonus* for whomever can get me these answers first!**BG**

What is the proper, phonetic pronunciation of the word "howket" in the fourth verse, which is this:

She howket a grave by the light..."

Does it mean, she "hacked out" and is it pronounced the way it looks?

Also, in the previous verse, after she took out her "litle penknife", it says she "twinned" the sweet babe o' its life". Is this pronounced with a short or long "i" and, although I know it means she took its life, what is the meaning of twinned, exactly?

One more, I think I've been doing right for years, but would like to verify it: when any of the Scottish songs ahve words such as "sae" for "so" and "nae" for "no", is it correct to pronounce them as "say" and "nay" or is it "sigh" and "nigh"?

Thanks!

kat

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23 Apr 00 - 08:08 PM (#216747)
Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: Kelida

houket=how-ket

sae=say

nae=nay

Other than that, I don't know.

Peace--Keli

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23 Apr 00 - 08:26 PM (#216753)
Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: GUEST,Murray on Saltspring

That only leaves "twinned", which I spell with one "i" and pronounce to rhyme with "lined", but it can also have two, and so pronounced to rhyme with "sinned". Old Scots twyne (etc) from Middle English twinnen, to separate. Good luck with the song--hope this isn't too late for you.

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23 Apr 00 - 10:25 PM (#216788)
Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: katlaughing

THANKS! Keli and Murray!

It could be a typo in the twinned. I thought twyned would sound better. And, no, it is not too late. Why don't you two join us? Just look for the HearMe thread. There is a text chat, if you don't havea a mic or at shy about sining/playing.

Thanks a bunch!

kat

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24 Apr 00 - 01:10 PM (#217081)
Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: TerriM

Kat, thank you so much, I've been looking for the lyrics to this for ages!

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24 Apr 00 - 04:24 PM (#217186)
Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: katlaughing

You're welcome, TerriM, it's really a neat song/tune and Barry's site is, too!

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02 May 00 - 05:18 PM (#221662)
Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: GUEST,Angun

Anyone knows something more about this song? Where it`s from, story.......

Angun

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02 May 00 - 06:13 PM (#221707)
Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: Susanne (skw)

It's a version of the 'Cruel Mother' ballad, Child #20. This particular version seems to have been collected by Burns and published in Johnson's Scots Musical Museum (1796) (from the sleevenotes of 'Fine Flowers and Foolish Glances' by Mick West, who does a haunting version of it.)

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02 May 00 - 07:29 PM (#221749)
Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: katlaughing

Yes, MaryinK, I goofed! Thanks for the correction! It is from Barry Taylor's site. As it is, I didn't sing it that night, as I dind't know it well enough. I don't know if anyone is going into HearMr tonight or not. I think Billy the Bus was going to try, juts wtach for a HearMe NOW thread.

Thanks, Susanne, good to know a bit more.

kat

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03 May 00 - 01:43 PM (#222326)
Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: Ringer

See also The Lowlands of Holland (in the DT) for another song containing "twined":

And the lowlands of Holland have twined my love and me

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