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24 May 00 - 04:09 PM (#233271) Subject: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Peg I think my choir did this song in high school, too...times are changin'... From today's Boston Globe: Song about drunken sailor upsets parents By Associated Press, 5/24/2000 08:53 WEST HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) After learning that a high school choir planned to sing ''What Shall We Do With the Drunken Sailor?,'' some parents are reaching for the anchor. As word spread that one of Conard High School's choirs would perform the offbeat song in tonight's spring choral concert, it prompted a quick and mixed reaction. At least two parents contacted the school recently, saying they were concerned about whether the tune -- often a drinking ditty -- is appropriate for a high-school choir to sing. ''The concern was that singing a song which uses the phrase `drunken sailor' may be offensive to someone who's been dealing with alcoholism,'' said Alphonse ''Chuck'' Landroche, the school's principal. Landroche said school officials discussed the issue and agreed that although the choir could sing the song tonight, it would be preceded by a disclaimer to emphasize that it is not intended to glorify drinking or mock alcoholism. Some choir members believe political correctness is being taken too far and say they are pondering whether to conduct a silent protest by turning away while the disclaimer is read. ''We interpret it completely different, that the sailor partied too much last night and his buddies are trying to sober him up,'' said Christopher Fitzpatrick, an 18-year-old member of the choir. The song is known as a ''shanty,'' or ''chantey,'' tunes that sailors sang while performing their various seafaring duties. The song is often in the repertoires of Ivy League institutions. The Conard choir's version includes only a few of the song's many verses. Some of the racier verses are not being sung, such as: ''shave his belly with a rusty razor'' and ''put him in bed with the captain's daughter.'' ''We're not doing a really wild version,'' Fitzpatrick said. ''The version we're doing is pretty tame |
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24 May 00 - 04:21 PM (#233278) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: McGrath of Harlow I reckon they make this stuff up on a dull news day, and then persuade some jokers to put their names to the quotes...
All right, we won't sing that one. Now all together lads "WHIP JAMBOREE" |
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24 May 00 - 04:27 PM (#233280) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Peg No, McGrath, sadly it is quite true...New Englanders these days are getting mighty uptight about such things; several months ago in Amherst, Mass, the community wanted to ban a high school production of "West Side Story" for its supposedly-racist depictions of Hispanics...
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24 May 00 - 04:27 PM (#233281) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Peter T. This is the sort of thing that drives people to drink or to sea. Entering the era of Eisenhower II. yours, Peter T. |
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24 May 00 - 04:27 PM (#233282) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: joeler I was in the Navy for four years and I hardly remember a thing. The true should be known. Sing the damn songs kids, sing it out! |
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24 May 00 - 04:28 PM (#233283) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: MMario I thought the verses they were cutting were some of the TAMER verses....they can get pretty downright crude...face it, it was probably "ballocks" long before it was "belly" - and even that it tame compared to "twist his pizzle into a bowline" or |
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24 May 00 - 04:31 PM (#233286) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: SINSULL A school in Buffalo recently banned the annual reading of "The Giving Tree" because the tree is female and presented in a subservient role. I guess if she had fallen down and killed the guy who picked her apples it would have been OK. |
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24 May 00 - 04:31 PM (#233287) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: SINSULL Then again, we wouldn't want to introduce the theme of suicide. |
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24 May 00 - 04:33 PM (#233289) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: GUEST,John Bohannon WeÕve always sung "throw him in bed with Margaret Thatcher." I never knew the real line "...the captain's daughter." Thanks! |
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24 May 00 - 04:42 PM (#233293) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: McGrath of Harlow I'd find the term "Hispanic" offensive if I came from Puerto Rico - like being called "Caucasian" when you come from Tipperary.
So West Side Story wasn't seen as racist about the Italians?
I have to admit, when I saw it I wasn't at all clear which was which. |
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24 May 00 - 04:47 PM (#233298) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: wysiwyg Oops, needs new updated verses! Here's a few! Send him off to school to learn how to be PC... Censor his logbook and change the history... Plan an intervention and sober his ass up... Ask the crew if they would like to form an Alanon... Blame his drinking on his dysfunctional family...
Pour all his rum right overboard smartly... |
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24 May 00 - 04:51 PM (#233300) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Rick Fielding "Put 'em in charge of the Exxon Valdiz"....... Rick |
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24 May 00 - 04:53 PM (#233302) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: MMario y'pour me rum overboard and yer dang tootin' I'm goin' be surly! 'sides the fakt thas jes' plain ol' alcohol abuse, do y'ken how much that bottle cost me?
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24 May 00 - 04:54 PM (#233303) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Allan C. I recently heard a version which featured such verses as: "Get him to admit that he has a problem." "Soon he'll understand that he is co-dependent." |
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24 May 00 - 04:59 PM (#233304) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: catspaw49 Christ almighty....I can't take it!!! Lemmee guess....If you sing this and play musical chairs too, your ass is going straight to hell. We ought to start taxing stupidity; it seems to be in good supply and indeed, running rampant. We could completely do away with sales tax. Spaw |
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24 May 00 - 05:03 PM (#233307) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: MMario No matter that the tune is as old as the blue hills that the song's been sung forever across the seven seas They have banned it now in Boston And they'd burn it if they could And many of those who haven't say "we should!"
No matter that it's upbeat
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24 May 00 - 05:03 PM (#233308) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: wysiwyg Tie him in a chair then pull it out from under him... Say it's a disease then thrown him overboard anyway... Gee, maybe it isn't so much fun to be a drunken sailor, at least in these times! ~S~ |
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24 May 00 - 05:05 PM (#233310) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca McGrath, yes, West Side Story is specifically about the Hispanics and inter-relating with the more established ethnicities which were prevalent in New York. I think the Jets were your North American mix of races, and the others were the immigrant Puerto Ricans.
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24 May 00 - 05:06 PM (#233311) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: SeanM I love this! So let's see... a song that lists off all the punishment the poor "drunken sailor" is getting inflicted on him is glorifying alcoholism, and "put 'im to bed with the captain's daughter" (as I remember, basically saying "beat him unconscious with the bloody great stick or whip the captain uses to administer discipline") is lascivious... Gee, glad they didn't get ahold of "make him kiss the gunner's daughter" (oft interpreted as pressing the gent's face to the barrel of the cannon as it is fired). We'd probably have a case for pedophilia on our hands. Keeeee-rist. M |
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24 May 00 - 05:06 PM (#233312) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: MMario gee- and here I thought it was romeo and juliet updated to a modern setting.... |
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24 May 00 - 05:10 PM (#233314) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: MMario Sean - most people don't KNOW the correct interpretations of the phrases, and only see the double entendre, taking it at face value. I'd been singing "Drunken Sailor" for thirty years before I had an inkling that there WERE alternate meanings to the various phrases, and then it was only because I read the same phrases in a novel. |
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24 May 00 - 05:11 PM (#233315) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: catspaw49 Has this school got an e-mail? Or is there a local addy of some sort? Anybody know? Something for this group that's "concerned?" Anybody know??? Spaw |
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24 May 00 - 05:16 PM (#233317) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: SeanM Yeah! I'm with 'spaw on this one! Perhaps a letter stating the real meanings of what they're singing could do some good... Gods know it'd be better than some pusilanimous "we're sorry we're singing, we just don't know any better" apology before the song. Maybe something along the lines of "Back in the days of sail, there was little worse on board a ship than a man who was drunk on watch. The sailors despised such a man to a point as to create a shanty specifically laying out the punishments due to such an offender." Couldn't hurt. M |
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24 May 00 - 05:16 PM (#233320) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: wysiwyg LOL! We could make them a tape, each one add a verse and send the tape on to the next! What do you do when the schools have gone stupid... Get an education that is based on Pablum... Choke the living sh*t out of every cultural expression... ~S~ |
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24 May 00 - 05:28 PM (#233327) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Mbo Good gravy what are these people thinking? I learned this song when I was 5 years old, in Catholic School Kindergarten music time. So it can't be that bad can it?! --Mbo |
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24 May 00 - 05:39 PM (#233332) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Hollowfox Back in 1998, the O'Fallon (Missouri) high school marching band was going to use the Jefferson Airplane song White Rabbit in a performance. Someone protested, the band was ordered not to play it, a lawsuit came about, and tons of high school students who only knew it as an instrumental number looked up the lyrics on the Internet, thus introducing them to the dopelore that the complainer was trying to prevent them from exploring. (People Magazine gave it a small article in the November 16, 1998 issue) |
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24 May 00 - 05:40 PM (#233334) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Amergin Next thing we know On Top of Spaghetti will be promoting eating disorders. Amergin |
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24 May 00 - 05:54 PM (#233343) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Amos This is a mild but insidious form of mass insanity. Anyone who is that terrified of ideas will never be able to think, which is sort of a circular argument. We ought to bombard the PTA e-mail with MP3s of the bawdier verses of the Good Ship Venus, or hire a bunch of gentle jolly walkers to attend their next meeting and argue on behalf of genuine passion. How do these lamebrains think they got here? Half of them were only spawned because some sailor got drunk!! |
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24 May 00 - 06:13 PM (#233353) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: katlaughing Unfuckingbelievable!! I knew Amherst was PC, but not THAT PC when I lived across the river in Noho. Do these people feel so out of control of their own kids and their minds that they will ban everything??? Of course, a lot of that loss of control probably came about while they were trying to raise them by the PC-code (which used to mean something more balanced). I agree with Spaw, we need to start an email campaign. If nothing else, we can all send letters to the Boston Globe by clicking here. |
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24 May 00 - 06:16 PM (#233354) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: paddymac The version in the DT has 12 verses (or six couplets, whichever you prefer), all "nautical". There's probably a thousand more out there that have no relation to things nautical beyond being stuck into this particular song. The song is amazingly adaptable to whatever happens to be in today's news - which is probably the reason it's so well liked by folkies and pub singers (and listeners). For example,: "Put him in a chorus in West Hartford" or "Send him back to school at Conard High", coupled (sorry gang, no hidden meaning intended) with "I wouldn't do that with a drunken sailor". The phrase "banned in Boston" has been a great advertizing gimmick for decades, or more. Maybe this little episode could be used in pubs for a lyric contest - might even spawn a "rebirth" of the song. Too bad there's no "Hit Parade" anymore. |
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24 May 00 - 06:42 PM (#233367) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Gary T I understood the Jets in West Side Story to be from a Polish neighborhood. At one point Bernardo calls Tony a "Pollock". |
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24 May 00 - 06:55 PM (#233376) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: catspaw49 He called him a fish? Spaw |
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24 May 00 - 07:12 PM (#233379) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: wysiwyg He was an Alaskan Polack? |
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24 May 00 - 07:29 PM (#233396) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: McGrath of Harlow I'm reminded of the story about the bunch of street kids planning the night's action.
"Yeah, well Tony's a Wop, and Spikes a Nigger, and I'm a Mick and Al's a Yid, and Jose is a Spic - but we're all Americans..." Cries of doubtful approval.
"So we've got to stick together when we go down to the parking lot and stomp those Arabs..."
You could change the names and the labels and the locality round if you like. But we were talking about West Side Story.
And I alsways thought the Jets were Italian. If I say all these New Yorkers tend to look and sound pretty well the same to me would that be racist? I think it's more of a compliment. |
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24 May 00 - 09:43 PM (#233450) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: fulurum attention students. you may bring your weapons of choice into the school. but please check your offensive songs and literature at the door.thank you. |
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24 May 00 - 11:27 PM (#233503) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Gary T Well, I would have spelled it right but I'm sure Bernardo spent more time being tough than studying spelling, and he probably would have spelled it wrong, and since he's the one who said it...this excuse doesn't sound fishy, does it? |
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24 May 00 - 11:30 PM (#233505) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Mbo The fish comment is OBVIOUSLY a reference to the line in Romeo and Juliet "O flesh, o flesh, how art thou fishified!" **BG** --Mbo |
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24 May 00 - 11:35 PM (#233508) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: DougR Peter T: Don't follow your reference to Eisenhower. Would you amplify a bit? Just curious. DougR |
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24 May 00 - 11:42 PM (#233512) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Amergin If I can't bring my thoughts into the school, at least I can still bring my gun... |
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25 May 00 - 01:16 AM (#233566) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Gypsy "Put him in charge of an Exxon Tanker put him in charge of an Exxon Tanker Put him in charge of and Exxon Tanker, Then we'll start the cleanup! |
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25 May 00 - 01:23 AM (#233569) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Bugsy Some people are SO narrow minded. IT's PATHETIC! CHeers Bugsy |
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25 May 00 - 05:07 AM (#233614) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Peter Kasin Sean M's idea of an explanation of the meaning of the song would have been much better than some disclaimer, Sean's being just an honest presentation of what the song is about. This whole controversy is an embarrasment. I hate to think what would happen if this highly constricting level of PC became majority opinion. This is sheer puritanism. Reminds me of the time someone complained that "John Cherokee" was insulting to Native American Indians! This person was totally misinformed of the meaning of the song and of the ethnicity of John Cherokee (West Indies). Same thing happening in MA: PC based on misinformation. On top of all this, kids LOVE to sing this chantey. It's rousing, easy, and very fun. They are not concerned with whether it promotes alcholism. Only adults think that's what children are thinking. |
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25 May 00 - 07:14 AM (#233624) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Sailor Dan First of all, you people here on the mudcat must have compassion, Please. Those parents who went to the school to complain suffer from a very serious disease. The all suffer from whatis know as "Rectalcranialinversion." Please feel compassion. I mean after all how would you like it if you had your head stuck up your ass and all you could see was brown. It might just give you a shitty outlook on life. Coming from the Big CIty of NY. West Side story is about the Puerto Rican Influence vs the Irish/Italian etc faction on the upper West Side of Manhattan in the areas of West 80's to West 110th area. In the 1950 & 1960 era the situation as depicted wasn't far off the actual truth.
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25 May 00 - 09:17 AM (#233663) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Hollowfox Thanks, Sailor Dan. Now I know the formal medical term fro cerebral hemorrhoids. |
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25 May 00 - 09:42 AM (#233674) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: SDShad I can't imagine cutting "shave his belly with a rusty razor"! I sing that one with a kind of gravely voice to indicate how rough the shave might be--and every kid in the audience is usually giggling before I finish the first line! That's too risque? Yeesh! Praise, I'm gonna have to add "Plan an intervention and sober his ass up" to my version. To by followed by "get him to admit that he has a problem," of course. And Rick and Gypsy--I added the Exxon verse years ago. Always a crowd-pleaser. Another one we added years ago was:
I don't know what to do with a drunken sailor Must be half-spoken-half-sung in a rambling, rushing, drunken slur, so as to be barely intelligible and to fit into the line since it doesn't scan quite right.... Shad |
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25 May 00 - 10:00 AM (#233678) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Peg I am reminded of when I was working at an art cinema theatre in Northampton, MA a few years ago...yes, the Happy Valley, as they call it, is a bastion of kneejerk liberalism (which I don't mind so much) but even more so a bastion of kneejerk political correctness (which really got on my nerves sometimes)...and even the local movie house felt the ripples of it...at the theatre we were playing a French film called "How to Make Love to a Negro without Getting Tired" and the title referred to the book written by a black man (Isaak de Bankole, of Chocolat and Night on Earth) about his own exploits. It is a controversial title but the film itslelf since the main character understands the irony and stereotyping in his use of these words, is actually rather sweet and inoffensive, execpt that this guy does have a tendency to use women sexually but they all love him and it is a silly romantic comedy so everyone is happy... But we got calls at the theatre and people threatening to boycott us and everything else you could imagine. One woman who called was all righteous and indignant. She said "I can't believe you're playing this film at your theatre." And I asked "Why?" and she said, blustering, "It is racist, and sexist." I asked, "Ma'am, have you seen this film?" and she said "No." And I asked "Then how do you know it's racist and sexist?" "Well I can tell by the title." I said "So it's the title you object to, not the film." She hung uop eventually, rather upset that I did not want to listen to her rant and rave about how racist and sexist the management of my workplace was... I submit that many of the parents protesting this wonderful old song have not even bothered to look at the lyrics. I also submit that nary a one of them understands that it is very educational and enriching for school children to sing songs which have historical and cultural relevance...when I was in school our choir director loved that genre of songs known as "Negro Spirituals." We sang them often. These days, I wonder how many music teachers who love this music think twice about having their kids perform them simply because the historically-customary name of this song category is offensive to people... In the meantime, letters to the Globe might do something...it was an AP story, I believe, and letters to the school would probably be even more effective...there were lots of letters about the "West Side Story" debacle in Amherst...
That's Conard High Scool in West Hartford, CT. The phone number is 860-521-3610. Tell 'em Peg sent ya. ;) |
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25 May 00 - 10:27 AM (#233683) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Greg F. A quote I've seen attributed to Frank Zappa might be appropriate here; hope I have it correctly: "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute this. I say there is much more stupidity than hydrogen, and THAT is the basic building block of the universe." Best, Greg |
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25 May 00 - 10:52 AM (#233690) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Mark Clark Well at last we have the explanation for the widely publicized shortage of corn cobs! We now know where each of them has gone. It's offensive to have this sort unmitigated prudishness given a label that includes the word correct. "Drunken Sailor" has always been one of my favioite songs. My children and grandchildren learned that one at an early age. I wonder how these folks would like another favorite of mine, "Sam Hall"? I read in the paper yesterday that some group in Boston has determined that all the G-rated films are actually too violent for children. I suppose we can forget about singing "Pretty Polly," "Ommie Wise" and "Little Joe The Wrangler" any more. Looks as though the US needs another Free Speech Movement, what's going on at Berkley these days? Grumble, grumble, gripe, - Mark
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25 May 00 - 11:00 AM (#233694) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Amos Peg, your approach is certainly more rationale and more economical. And might be more effective. But I like the idea of swamping them with jolly walkers. It'd be a helluva lot more fun! We could deck 'em up in sailor suits, like, and have them do a chorus line singing naughty sea-songs... A |
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25 May 00 - 11:32 AM (#233713) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Wesley S Trust me there arn't going to be any alcoholics in the audience to offend if there are any bars open at the time. So it really doesn't matter. Also on the PC front - a local theater group put on a stage adaption of the "Maltese Falcon" a few years ago and cast a black man as Sam Spade. You can imagine the phone calls they got on that one. |
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25 May 00 - 11:43 AM (#233718) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Uncle_DaveO MANY years ago, when I climbed mountains, we had a version of this song: What shall we do with the drunken climber? (3X) Feed him slack when he asks for tension Ear-lye etc. Feed him prunes on a five-day backpack Wrap his crampons in his air mattress and some othe lines I disremember now. Dave Oesterreich |
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25 May 00 - 11:52 AM (#233724) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Peg Amos; I like that idea! Certainly any public protest of the baning of the song in question should include performances of the song in question...in full costume of course... |
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25 May 00 - 11:59 AM (#233730) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Hic..Burp... scuse me mates... just cant seem to stand up straight and steer a straight course at all must be all the booze I drank...Hypersensitivity and Political correctness are forms of censorship by stupid people. They create a society full of rancour, but devoid of spirit. The sooner it stops the better. Yours, Aye. Dave |
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25 May 00 - 01:39 PM (#233775) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Penny S. Allan Ahlberg has a version they might approve. What shall we do with the grumpy teacher?... In "Heard it in the playground"; it suggests a series of appropriate punishments. Keep him in at lunch to watch the children eating, that sort of thing. Children just love it. Penny Don't know about that sort of teacher though. |
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25 May 00 - 01:47 PM (#233781) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Bert Got any more verses of that version Penny? |
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25 May 00 - 02:14 PM (#233798) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Penny S. Copyright problem, I think. However. It is now 19.08 GMT. I have spent over an hour running two versions of scandisk and defrag on a hard disk that reports problems on booting, but then doesn't have any. The virus scanner reprots nothing. I have put the thing right three times now this week. Tomorrow we have inservice training on boosting self esteem and circle time. If the computer had not now just finished running its stuff, I would have gone and got the book, which I recommend. It has a number of poems set to tunes. eg. Goodbye old school (to Goodbye old Paint) In the classroom sits a teacher The bell is ringing, for school to begin The teacher and the children should be friends and my favourite, which demands to be sung I've got the teach them in the morning Playground duty Teach them in the afternoon blues.... and to be sung now. Anyway, I've got to get home and eat and write reports. I'll pick up the book on the way, and see what I can do - it does invite improvistion, though, doesn't it? Penny |
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25 May 00 - 02:35 PM (#233811) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: SeanM To Sailor Dan's call for compassion for victims of Rectalcranialinversion, I answer: There is hope! A recent procedure has been developed, "plexiotomy", wherein a portion of the abdomen is replaced with a clear plexiglass sheet so that the sufferer can still see with their head lodged up their rectum. Levity... A full time job. M |
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25 May 00 - 03:23 PM (#233834) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Petr I know Someone beat me to it but this is the version I heard. put him in charge of an Exxon tanker 3x on the Alaskan coastline. petr |
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25 May 00 - 03:37 PM (#233841) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Sailor Dan Sean M They would not be able to live with the installation of a plexiotomy, It would be take away there shitty outlook on life. Then what would they complain about. The pain in there necks???? LOL Dan
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25 May 00 - 04:33 PM (#233861) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Penny S. I went to get my copy of Heard it in the Playground, to find it had joined the Potter books down the worm hole. So Ahlberg has made a new sale, which modifies my attitude to putting it here.
Chorus: What shall we do with the grumpy teacher? (x3)
Hang her on a hook behind the classroom door. Please, Miss, we're only joking, Don't mean to be provoking. How come your ears are smoking? Early... Chorus Send him out to duty when the sleet is sleeting. Keep him after school to take a parent's meeting. Stand him in the hall to watch the children eating, Early... Please, Sir, we're only teasing, Don't mean to be displeasing. Help - that's our necks your squeezing! Early... Chorus Tickle her toes with a hairy creature. Leave her in the jungle where the ants can reach her. BRING HER BACK ALIVE TO BE A CLASSROOM TEACHER! Early - in the - morning! Allan Ahlberg 1989 Puffin Books ISBN 0-14-032824-6 |
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25 May 00 - 09:20 PM (#233995) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: McGrath of Harlow An odd song to pick on. I always get the suspicion that in this kind of situation there's someone manipulating things behind the scenes. "Now if we can get someone to ask for a ban on this it'll really make the PC crowd look stupid."
Mind there are shanties that you'd use cautiously. Whip Jamboree, to which I posted a link at the start of this thread, used to have different sets of verses according to whether there were female pasengers on board or not, according to Stan Hugill. And he had verses to "In Amsterdam there lived a maid" that he'd never put in print, and I don't blame him. |
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26 May 00 - 12:59 PM (#234328) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: GUEST,Ole Bull Hey yoou guys; Make fun all you want but this doesn't appear any different to me than all you Mudcatters who, in other links, wanted to ban or censor any old song that makes most any reference what so ever to black people or slaves. And speakin' of Drunkin' Sailors, isn't "Blow the Man Down" even more offensive? Especially if you consider it's first cousin, the song "Knock a Nigger Down," (one of the songs that may deserved to be knocked down). Although no-body complains about the later folkies that converted the suject from a black to a preacher (Some folks say a ---- won't steal,.....)
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27 May 00 - 03:31 AM (#234699) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Peter Kasin Okay, here are the contents to the new publication, The Conard Book of Chanteys for All Occasions: Root Beer Johnny; The Good Ship Ven..er..Lollipop; Whup Boy Scout Jamboree; So Early In The Morning The Sailor Loves His Waffle-O; The Senior Citizen Moke Pickin' On A Banjo; New York Women, Do You Not Know How To Dance The Polka?; Greenland Trout Fisheries. Any additions, Mudcatters? |
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27 May 00 - 10:55 PM (#234964) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Melani You forget John Native American. |
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05 Nov 03 - 10:15 AM (#1048423) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: GUEST,Heather I have to say, I find this particular thing very amusing - I just graduated from a highschool in southwestern Connecticut, and last year our choir sang that song. Now, loving the song like I do, when I saw that the version we had was missing some of my favorite verses (namely - shave his belly with a rusty razor) I went right to the director, showed him all these other verses, and he loved them and went ahead and added them in. It's odd how totally different the reactions were up at Conard! |
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05 Nov 03 - 10:26 AM (#1048428) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Amos Some people can face reality, and some canna, I reckon. Protesting a rowdy sailing song from the 1800's is like being upset because cave men were so violent with each other. Geeze Louise, people!! :>) A |
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05 Nov 03 - 10:55 AM (#1048446) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Uncle_DaveO Back in the dear, dead, days beyond recall when I was a sort-of mountain climber, we would sing What shall we do with a drunken climber? As you may imagine, a drunken climber is as high on the undesirability list as a drunken sailor on watch. This had great punishments, like, "Feed him prunes on a five-day backpack", and "Give him slack when he calls for tension", and "Wrap his crampons in his air mattress." Not too much there, I suppose for someone to complain about. I suppose someone might take umbrage about the prunes. Dave Oesterreich |
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05 Nov 03 - 11:09 AM (#1048451) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: McGrath of Harlow "cave men were so violent with each other" That's stereotyping. For all we know they were gentle as hippies. Eating fruit and nuts and all that and sitting round blazing hemp fires and relating, and playing flutes and digeridoos. "Wow, man - that thing you're painting on the cave wall. Far Out!" Meanwhile the cavewomen might have been out chasing mammoths... |
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05 Nov 03 - 12:06 PM (#1048492) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Charley Noble Dave Oesterreich- You're repeating yourself, old man! BG Wonder how them parents in Conard would interpret this potentially obscene verse: Boot 'im up and wipe his hard drive, Boot 'im up and wipe his hard drive, Boot 'im up and wipe his hard drive, Ear-ly in the morning! Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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05 Nov 03 - 04:57 PM (#1048648) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: swampy-the-spark i spose we could definently NOT sing about the blackball line? |
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05 Nov 03 - 05:05 PM (#1048650) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Dead Horse Charley, that version is definately PC. |
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05 Nov 03 - 05:53 PM (#1048684) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Wolfgang If we do not find a version that is definitely PC we still can fall back on singing one that is defiantly PC. Wolfgang |
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05 Nov 03 - 06:06 PM (#1048697) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Blackcatter How in the hell do these old threads become resurrected? This disappeared 3 1/2 years ago. That being said, I tohught it was funny that people had a problem about the drinking in the song and not the physical abuse carried on throughout the song. |
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05 Nov 03 - 06:43 PM (#1048735) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Heely As a Sea Chantey performer and a High School Choral Director - I have loved this link. Thanks for the great Laughs. Now you know what we deal with everyday. So. . . .what do you think about every Kindergarten - college in America playing Elgar's "Pomp and Circumstance" at every graduation. It was written to honor England ruling the world and celebrating the success in India. Didn't we fight a war or two against England for our independance?(1776 and-1812 for those who forgot) Figure that one out? My Irish and Scottish and Austalian heritage is offended. Heely |
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05 Nov 03 - 09:53 PM (#1048875) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Noreen Thanks for refreshing this, Heather, it's a classic thread. Still smiling at Greenland Trout Fisheries, chanteyranger :0) Financially dependent senior citizen horse? |
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06 Nov 03 - 12:14 AM (#1048951) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: dick greenhaus Odd thing about Drunken Sailor--It seems to be a stamp-and-go shanty. Which implies a very large crew. Which suggests a naval vessel. But I'm told that shantying was forbidden on naval vessels. Any shanty buffs care to enlighten me? |
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06 Nov 03 - 04:16 AM (#1049015) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Jeanie I missed this thread first time round. Where will this craziness end ? I have been banned twice (so far) from having children sing certain songs. A song for Palm Sunday, "Here Comes Jesus Riding on a Donkey", is sung to the tune of "Drunken Sailor" - this was banned, because the tune was considered too offensive to be sung in a church. (The children loved it). Last Christmas, one of the songs in my school's production of Dylan Thomas' "A Child's Christmas in Wales" was removed at the last minute by the "thought police" because it happened to say good things about drinking parsnip wine. (The children loved it). A friend who teaches drama in a similar (independent prep) school came across exactly the same thing with her production of Dickens' "A Christmas Carol". What are we both giving them this year ? Straight Bible readings from Genesis through to John. No more, no less. No-one can take offence at that. (In a State school, they probably would, though). I hope the children love it. Hmmmm..... - jeanie |
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06 Nov 03 - 02:00 PM (#1049346) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Melani At my daughter's Bat Mitzvah, there was a final prayer to end the service which is tradionally sung to diffent tunes, the tune being selected especially for the Bar/Bat Mitvah kid to reflect their interests and honor them on this special occasion in their lives. My daughter sang it to the tune of "The Drunken Sailor," and the rabbi was absolutely on the floor in hysterics. |
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06 Nov 03 - 02:30 PM (#1049372) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Micca From my own time in the Merchant Navy and my contact with a real shantyman (Bless you, Bert Gray, where ever you are) I recall, his contention was that "Drunken Sailor" was a virtuoso piece for shantymen, always started with a few standard verses then used as a platform to show off the shantymans skill at improvising verses, especialy about fellow crew mwmbers and with lots of "local colour" and in jokes, and in his (Bert's)honour, on the rare ocassions I sing it, I have tried to do the same. |
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18 Apr 05 - 12:18 PM (#1464395) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: GUEST,Allen The Evil Ecology-Destroying Whale-Murdering Ship the Diamond. |
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18 Apr 05 - 12:35 PM (#1464408) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: GUEST,Allen In Amsterdam There Lived a Liberated Modern Woman With Progressive Views on Lifestyle Choices |
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18 Apr 05 - 08:37 PM (#1464803) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Muttley This is unbelievable: How about this offering. What shall we do with the righteous PC's What shall we do with the righteous PC's What shall we do with the righteous PC's From the the Hartford PTA group Send 'em all on a luxury sea cruise Send 'em all on a luxury sea cruise Send 'em all on a luxury sea cruise On the ship 'Titanic' PC is running stupidly rampant. I was 'reamed a few years ago by my boss for holding a door open for a couple of ladies exiting a building behind me (it was a 'welfare' office whose staff are predominantly rampant PC and feministic) - we'd been to a meeting there. I listened politely to his diatribe and then cheerfully told him to "Go %#@!! himself" as the action had been drilled into me as politeness, courtesy and good manners by my mother and as long as I had breath in my body I would continue to do it - no matter HOW much he objected. Besides if I hold a door open for a woman and she abuses me for it; she's just as likely to be informed of her boorish rudeness and tossed BACK it. The PC world is a TERRIBLY confusing place to a blunt-spoken Asperger who calls it as they see it. I try to be polite at all times, but PC just confuses the bejeebers outta me. John |
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19 Apr 05 - 11:23 AM (#1465388) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: EBarnacle Sorry, Melani, that should have been "John the Polynesian Peasant." |
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19 Apr 05 - 05:38 PM (#1465782) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: GUEST,Melani John Chreokee=John Native American John Kanaka=John Polynesian Peasant Did I miss anyone? |
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20 Apr 05 - 12:05 PM (#1466390) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Flash Company Peter Grey--- Now Peter went away out west to seek his fort-i-an, Where he was given great support by a Native Amer-i-can I'll go now! FC |
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20 Apr 05 - 12:40 PM (#1466411) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: GUEST,Uncle DaveO |
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20 Apr 05 - 03:26 PM (#1466498) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Q (Frank Staplin) In Japan in the 1870s, in the "Yokohama dialect," the word for sailor was dammuraisu, or "damn your eyes." The ...red-faced foreigners in Japan, who drink brandy out of tumblers, and then in drunken fury roam the streets of Yokohama and nagasaki are not infrequently compared to the intoxicated monster beheaded by Raiko [children's fireside story]." "The Japanese child .... is amazed at the great size of the mugs and drinking glasses ... from which the men of red beards and faces drink a liquid ten times stronger than saké." W. E. Griffis, 1876, "The Mikado's Empire," Harper & Bros. NY, p. 493. |
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21 Apr 05 - 05:36 AM (#1466850) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Gurney Dick Greenhaus, 2 years ago! asked: is it a naval shanty. Well, I'm not a buff, but yes, according to Stan Hugill, it is one of the two shanties that were sung on HMShips Can't remember if I remember this from conversation with him or reading one of his books, but I do remember it, if you see what I mean. |
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21 Apr 05 - 11:38 AM (#1467046) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow What was the other one, Gurney? Spanish Ladies? (And was he talking about singing as a forebitter, or being allowed to use as a shanty?) |
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21 Apr 05 - 02:29 PM (#1467201) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Q (Frank Staplin) What Hugill said- Drunken Sailor- "This is a typical example of the stamp-'n'-go song or walkaway or runaway shanty, and was the only type of work-song allowed in the King's Navee." In other words, Hugill was referring to a type of shanty, not particular songs. Stan Hugill, "Shanties from the Seven Seas," 1961 (and reprints), p. 108. He explained further in 1969 that these were played by fifers and fiddlers when heaving up the anchor aboard naval vessels, but there was NO singing at the chore. "Nancy Dawson," "Drops of Brandy," and "Off She Goes" were played (reference given). Whall was the source of the statement about "Drunken Sailor" and "Nancy Dawson" being sung on revenue cutters and smaller fighting craft, but Hugill says there is no literary proof of this. Stan Hugill, 1969, "Shanties and Sailors' Songs," pp. 9-10. |
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22 Apr 05 - 03:30 AM (#1467698) Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested From: Gurney What Q said is exactly right, I checked in my copy of SftSS, but I also had chats with Stan about shanties, and SOMEONE did tell me that Drunken Sailor was, as I said, "One of the two shanties that were allowed to be sung on RN ships". This is a 35 year old memory, and I can't be sure who said it, but that was the phrase. Sorry, McGrath, I never did know the other. A nice red herring for the erudite to chase. |