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07 Jun 00 - 12:44 PM (#239411) Subject: Bad Neighbors From: Barbara Shaw We have a mini motor home, which we bought to make our getaways to music festivals easier. Knowing that the next door neighbor had already expressed her disapproval of such an "eyesore" which would "bring down the property values of the neighborhood," we worked long and hard to make a new driveway for it. tucked in neatly next to our garage. After much hard labor to dig up the sod, get stone delivered and then spread the stone out, lined with a bluestone path, we parked the camper there. A few days later we got a letter from the zoning enforcement officer, who said that she "was made aware of a possible violation" because our camper was not 20 feet from the side property line (where our neighbor lives). My first reaction is to put the house on the market, and hope someone with 12 kids moves in to spite the neighbor. My next reaction is to ask for some suggestions from other mudcats. At the very least, I need to get rid of some of this anger before I speak to anyone... |
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07 Jun 00 - 12:51 PM (#239416) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Willie-O Put it on cinder blocks and rent it out by the week. Better yet if you have a swimming pool. W-O |
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07 Jun 00 - 12:52 PM (#239417) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: MMario Zoning require that vehicles and trailers be parked over 20 feet from the property line? Or that STRUCTURES be no less then 20 feet from the line. The latter seems reasonable, the former distinctly odd. Take a deep breath, then ask the zoning officer re: the applicable code and apply for a variance if necessary. I suspect when you look into it, you will find you are not in violation. |
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07 Jun 00 - 12:57 PM (#239420) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: catspaw49 Been there....Done that.......Still doing it.......Check ALL the codes and laws very carefully. For each one that may be against you, you can probably find one on your side. Confuse the zoning folks and take a picture to show what the place looks like and that its NOT an eyesore. Find what the law states about other things you CAN put there legally........an outhouse perhaps (doesn't have to be functional). Suggest you're more than willing to erect such a wonderful thing there in place of the motorhome. Jerks that live across the alley from us bitched about our camper.....They didn't get anywhere but got nastier and nastier. So I park the thing as close to the alley as posible now (legal) with the hitch toward them. Since their garage is also close on the alley, they have a helluva' time getting in and out and have dented their cars several times on the hitch!!! Never say a word though. I LMAO!!!! Spaw |
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07 Jun 00 - 01:01 PM (#239422) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: DougR First off, Barbara, I wouldn't invite those neighbors to my next bar-b-que get together in my back yard. Neither would I send them a greeting card on holidays. Don't mean to be flip about a serious problem, but there may not be much you can do other than not having any future contact with the neighbors. I don't know what size city or town you live in, but most cities are getting pretty strict on things like this. It wouldn't solve the neighbor problem of course, because things will never be the same now between you and them, but is there some other nearby area where you could park the vehicle? If so, then do so, and buy a rusted out old Volkswagen, as ugly as you can find, and park it as close to your structure as you can and still stay within the zoning limits allowed. Too bad things like this happen, but unfortunately they do. DougR |
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07 Jun 00 - 01:05 PM (#239427) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Gary T Where's a good shotgun when you need one? Seriously, I guess they have a right to dislike it, but I could never understand how--or if--such people think. |
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07 Jun 00 - 01:11 PM (#239430) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Barbara Shaw Thanks for all the quick replies! I'm calming down. There's no place else on our property to park the thing, because our house is 50 feet back from the street, and the camper needs to be 40 feet back. It's 23 feet long, so it wouldn't fit there. And I don't have the energy to extend the driveway around to the back, nor do I think the camper could make the corner. The zoning officer sent a copy of the regulations, and it looks like we're cooked, unless we park the thing sideways in front of our front door (which is tempting)! We've been paying $45 a month for the past several years to store a trailer elsewhere, but now that we have the vehicle, we thought we were in the clear to park it in our own driveway. I do intend to have my son park his junk there from now on. . . That's OK, because it's not a vehicle "designed for use for human habitation." (They're definitely off my guest list, nor will we run to help them next time something breaks).
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07 Jun 00 - 01:17 PM (#239433) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: McGrath of Harlow I suppose if it had been a tank it would have been protected by the Second Amendment...
"was made aware of a possible violation" - that sounds like she's going thrtough te required procedure once a complaint is made. It doesn't necessarily mean that you are in fact in violation of anhything, I'd think.
Watch out about getting in a war with the neighbours by following some of the quite appealing suggestions, because those don't work out too well. There was a popular documentary series on TV over here about that kind of thing. Fun to watch, but hell to live.
We've sometimes thought of getting a tipi - good for festivals, and it'd freak out the neighbours, and it's a temporary structure, so different rules apply... |
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07 Jun 00 - 01:36 PM (#239439) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Jim Dixon Maybe you could buy a small lot somewhere on which to park your camper. You'd probably come out ahead in the long run, since land nearly always appreciates (instead of depreciates). Just make sure the property taxes and interest are less than the $45 a month you used to pay. Best of all, you can get a real estate agent to do all the checking and figuring for you before you commit to anything. |
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07 Jun 00 - 01:51 PM (#239445) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: GUEST,Banjo Johnny Hi - I do not think you should move the camper. That would be LETTING THE BAD GUYS WIN. They may win in the end, but you shouldn't make it easy for them. Meantime, you could apply for a "variance" -- you will need a lawyer for that but it would be worth it! Good Luck - BANJO JOHNNY |
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07 Jun 00 - 02:41 PM (#239478) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: GUEST,sophocleese at friend's I had some friends who moved into a new apartment. They did not rush out immediately to buy a garbage bin to put their garbage in so for a whole week it was in a garbage bag on their balcony. The neighbour called the health inspector who was duty bound to come out and have a look. The inspector hated these kind of nuisnace calls and ended up charging the neighbour because he had a barbecue on his balcony which he wasn't allowed to have. Any small voilation that you can bring on your neighbour? A question you could ask if someone comes out to look at your property? "Is that all right, officer, I was wondering..." Can you talk to your neighbour about it? Was she aware of the reason for all of your work about the driveway or did you assume she would understand what you were doing? |
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07 Jun 00 - 02:53 PM (#239491) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Wesley S I must admit that I would be tempted to invite over any friend of mine that played the bagpipes, banjo or bohran for an outdoor concert. Before 10:00 PM of course. You wouldn't want to violate any local laws. |
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07 Jun 00 - 03:13 PM (#239497) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: SINSULL Barbara, If you join in the "Bad Neighbor" game, they win and you lose. Find a safe home for your camper and enjoy it. That lady will never have the joy you have. She's too screwed up inside and so she resorts to hurting others for no other reason than she can. Spend your energy keeping us posted on your travels and sing loud and clear so she knows that she has no power to spoil your fun. And I bet you will help them the next time something breaks. But only if she asks nicely. Don't offer. SS |
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07 Jun 00 - 04:34 PM (#239540) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Kim C I for one don't understand why there are regulations regarding what YOU can do with property that YOU OWN. It's not unreasonable for someone to own a camper. As long as you aren't running a junkyard on the front lawn I don't see that it's anybody's business where you park the camper. If she doesn't like it, that's too bad, because it's on YOUR property. I say, get informed about what your rights are, and go for it! |
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07 Jun 00 - 05:00 PM (#239549) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: McGrath of Harlow Of course you could play it all naive - there's been a complaint made, but I doubt if the council official will have formally told you who made it. So you toddle along to your next door neighbour, say you assume it's some other nosey person who has made the compaint, and ask her if she's had any trouble fom ths unknown other.
There could be a good chance that she'll jump at it, to avoid embarassment, let you go on thinking it's not her, and might even say that she has no objection. Then you can quote her to the zoning officer as having said she's got no objection. (Have a witness.) That should effectively prejudice the officer against her, as a time waster, and they've probably got some kind of flexibility over these things.
I think it's a good rule only to be sparingly open and honest in the case of disputes with neighbours, unless you are basically friends all along, where there's a good chance of clearing the air. And it doesn't sound like you are basically friends in this case, or you'd have talked about what you were planning to do before you did it. (Which is always a good idea anyway.)
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07 Jun 00 - 06:11 PM (#239574) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Bert If you get a lawyer make sure it is one from out of town. We have found that local lawyers tend to side with the authorities. |
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07 Jun 00 - 06:23 PM (#239584) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Richard Bridge Check if the relevant ordinance only applies to vehicles "designed" for human habitation. Then trade your camper for a semitrailer and convert it. And park it there. That is a vehicle not designed, but "adapted" for human habitation. |
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07 Jun 00 - 06:25 PM (#239587) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Hardiman the Fiddler Zoning officers are usually pin-headed little pipsqueeks who have nothing to do except persecute the public who is usually taxed for the non service that they offer to the community. I had plenty of experience with one such a fellow in a community that was a suburb of Chicago. He'd spend the slow hours of the afternoon measuring the address/house numbers on folk's home to see if they were up to code. You could always tell where he'd been, because the homeowners, myself included always went out and bought the biggest numbers they could find and painted them the most gawd awful flourescent colors that money could buy. I hope that particular zoning officer rots in zoning violation hell!!!!! Seriously, there's not much you can do but comply, unless you have an attorney friend who wants to have some entertainment with the $%$##$ zoning official. Hardiman |
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07 Jun 00 - 06:30 PM (#239595) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: kendall Is there a time limit to how long you can park it there? If so, you could leave it there for the legal time, move it, then bring it back. How about one of those portable garages? The old junk car is interesting, especially if you could borrow some smelly baying coon dogs to live in it. |
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07 Jun 00 - 06:36 PM (#239599) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Barbara Shaw I went back to work full of anger and hell-bent for at least verbal revenge after getting that letter from the zoning enforcement officer. Then I read Sinsull's posting and really stopped to reflect on how lucky I am to have the camper and music festivals in my life, and how pitiful my neighbor is to have nothing better to think about than the view out her bedroom window. Thanks, Sinsull. Update: I spoke to the zoning officer, who said that there are several violations in our neighborhood (boats, fences, etc.) but she only enforces them when someone complains, and she told me that it was in fact my next door neighbor who complained. Here's an interesting catch: if we keep moving it every few days (we go away every other weekend in the warm months), we can keep it in our front driveway, but not in the side driveway next to the neighbor! Huh? Also, no setback is required for the driveway, we just can't park anything there that someone could "live" in, so my son's car will definitely be parked there. And believe me, that's no great view!
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07 Jun 00 - 06:42 PM (#239604) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: katlaughing We have a very old (60's), tiny (13 feet) travel trailer which has been parked out on the street for almost two years. It is Roger's hideaway/refuge and we do take it out once in awhile. As near as I can tell from all of teh neighbours we have, there ARE no ordinances in Wyoming about that kind of thing. The ones across the street have a huge motorhome, boat on trailer, truck with camper, and snomobiles on trailer...we tell the seasons by what they're driving and parking. Wyomingites seem to be recreationists and own a lot of toys, but I think they'd be in hot water if they ever tried to get another in trouble for the reasonable thing you've done. It is not fair and you should be able to have it on your property. Is there anyway you could build a screen or plant a screen of shrubs/trees, etc? Are you in love with your home or would you welcome a change? I'd call a lawyer, if you know of any good ones. You might also check to see if there are any RV clubs etc. whose members might know about the laws and/or have experience with them. I think Sinsull's got it right, though. kat |
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07 Jun 00 - 07:07 PM (#239623) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Barbara Shaw McGrath, we did talk to her before getting the camper, and said we would talk some more if she was really opposed, after seeing the thing. She skipped that part and went to the authorities. Tone set. Kat, I too am amazed that they can tell us what we can have in our own yard, under the guise of "protecting property values." We were planning to sell this BIG house as soon as the youngest is out of school, and take off after the sunset with our instruments aboard. This may hasten the decision to move, although "retirement" isn't possible yet. I just want something simple with a huge square room for jams, a large backyard for all my distant friends' campers to park occasionally, a couple of bedrooms (one for the occasional kid coming home) and a big kitchen with couches. And acoustic musicians for neighbors! |
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07 Jun 00 - 07:14 PM (#239626) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Hardiman the Fiddler Here's a suggestion: Write a really raunchy, electric, trash/metal distorted tune called the "bad neighbor blues," and invite all your friends to come over and jam to it. Be sure to crank up the amps and the distortion pedel to maxamize the effect. And maybe to top it off, you can get an electrified fiddler! Hardiman |
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07 Jun 00 - 07:25 PM (#239632) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Barbara Shaw I have to admit I was grinning when the kids across the street cranked up their driveway boombox to 100 and listened to rap while they screamed and played street hockey. Maybe we/I am the bad neighbor? |
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07 Jun 00 - 08:03 PM (#239638) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: McGrath of Harlow "we just can't park anything there that someone could 'live' in" - so, like I said, a tank would be OK. Your son could use it as runaround...If she beefs, set Charlton Heston on to her. |
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07 Jun 00 - 08:49 PM (#239656) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: GUEST Tell her your uncle died and left you his bee hives, which are going to take the place of the camper if you have to move it. |
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07 Jun 00 - 09:59 PM (#239694) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: richardw I onced lived in a condominium, strata title. A bylaw was passed that no boats could be parked in the strata parking lots. Okay. So in summer I had my canoe on top of my VW camper. I was told I could not park there. I argued I fumed. Then I moved it to the street, not the driveway, which was city property, 20 feet higher, in view of three times the untis. No more complaints. Mario has it I think. You can probalby make a presentation to a board of varience. Take some photos etc and explain your case. Offer a solution such as a screening fence or trees. Be the reasonable one. If that doesn't work be sure your son's care is safe, you know, with a good bright halogen light, maybe an alarm system. More property does not solve the problems. We are on 164 acres and one neighbour is an asshole. Our well was 10 feet over the line--had been for 25 years. he decided he didn't want it there so said he needed the weel and we had to move it. Cost us $10,000--and of course he still has not used it. Good luck. Richard |
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07 Jun 00 - 10:25 PM (#239703) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: GUEST,Lyle Like Spaw, been there. In my case, the other neighbors were on my side (I parked an 8 foot utility trailer on the side of my house) but all I got from them was sympathy. Where it was parked was on the side of the garage toward the bad ones property. When they continued to call the inspectors, it was the inspectors who got fed up, but there wasn't much they could do. So I bought a wood burning stove for my garage with the chimney pointed toward their house. All nice and legal, all inspected, everything passed. Now, can I help it that I wanted a fire in the garage in the summertime? And can I help it if there happened to be a bunch of green lawn cuttings placed in the stove every time they were out in their yard? They moved in two months. Lyle |
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07 Jun 00 - 10:29 PM (#239707) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: JedMarum apply for a variance ... you may still win your case, and your neighbor will have nothing to say ... |
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07 Jun 00 - 10:39 PM (#239715) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: kendall how does one move a well? |
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07 Jun 00 - 11:13 PM (#239722) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: SeanM Well, Kendall, if it's anything like what my grandparents went through, you pull ALL the equipment off of the old location, fill it in, move to the new location, and re-do the ENTIRE set up. VERY expensive, VERY irritating. M |
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07 Jun 00 - 11:50 PM (#239728) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Bev and Jerry We do folk music programs in schools and we travel in a tewnty-one foot motorhome spending about 150 nights a year in our home away from home. About ten percent of these nights are in legitimate campgrounds but most of the time we sleep in a school yard or just on the street.
There seems to be a certain percentage of the general population who thinks that anyone who owns or sleeps in any kind of RV is a threat to their existence. About once a month someone calls the cops and we are hassled. Most of the time, the cops are sympathetic and leave us alone but occasionally it's a real pain in the butt. We don't know what (if anything) goes on in the small minds of these people but they're everywhere. Too bad Barbara has to live next door to some of them. Bev and Jerry |
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08 Jun 00 - 12:18 AM (#239736) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Rick Fielding Sadly, the very fact that someone has complained means that things will never be the same, and that's too bad. You are two of the nicest folks that Heather and I have met in our twelve years together, and we would cherish the idea of you being our neighbours. Not just because you love music, but because you radiate kindness, compassion and sharing. You both laugh easily, and obviously try to see the best in others. If you dig your heels in and fight, it will be on your mind constantly, and that's gonna take away a little of that joie de vivre that's so apparent when someone meets you for the first time. I'm afraid my suggestion may not be popular here, but I think that there are far too many things that happen to folks that "harden" them....and BOY, it shows! It shows when their level of trust goes down even a little bit, and it shows when they take an "I've got my rights!" stand. Don't lose even a bit of what you've now got now. If you can afford it, park the trailer somewhere else....and when you think about it in the future, you can just show a "knowing smirk", and make a joke about sometimes it's "too much of a hassle to fight city hall". Do you think for one minute I'll ever forget the strangers who asked ME if I wanted to borrow a 3000 dollar Gibson Mastertone....after knowing me for 10 minutes? You're RARE folks. Rick and Heather |
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08 Jun 00 - 12:31 AM (#239741) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: catspaw49 Trutu Barb? I'd put as much info as I could together and try for a variance. Don't let a pain in the ass make you change your plans for the future or do things you don't want to do ahead of time. Then, since its not being used for habitation and there is something you said about moving it? Gotta' story about that...... Friend of mine, another racer, parked his race car trailer in a similar mannner to you. He lived in one of those hi-falutin' subdivisions with rules and such and the neighbors pitched a fit. But the rules said that trailers and motorhomes could only occupy a spot for a maximum of seven days. On race weekends he was gone and that worked out, but the rest of the time, he'd hook up and drive to our shop (about 6 miles) and I'd give him a receipt for a bulb, safety check, whatever for that date for the trailer. Worked!!! He was within the law and the minor inconvenience was a lot cheaper than storing the trailer. I know you hate to be a bad neighbor and the thing probably isn't worth losing sleep over, but some people are such jerks that the thrill of shoving it up their bum is just too much to pass up. If you end up HAVING to take your motorhome to a storage lot, I'd be "in for a penny, in for a pound." Forget your son's car, go buy some rusty, dented, trashed out, piece of crap for 50 or a hundred bucks and park it there. Also pick up an 8 foot section of privacy fence and erect it in front of the car...No use having your house look bad is there....but your neighbor can still enjoy it. If you can find a clunker that actually runs, have your son go out and start it from time to time....set the idle speed up and pour tiny amounts of transmission fluid down the carb while it runs. Make sure the wind is blowing toward the neighbors house. If your neighbor as a good view of this wreck, take the wheels off on that side and set it on concrete blocks. If her view is exceptionally good, have an old clapped engine block, a transmission, maybe a rear end too, delivered from your local junkyard. Assuming they are all cracked and generally unsellable, this should cost no more than 100 bucks. I figure for under 300, including the car, parts, junk parts, and fence, you won't have more than 300 in this new "Garden Spot." You need some ripped up tarp to cover part of it with too. Need more ideas? Happy to oblige! Spaw |
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08 Jun 00 - 12:38 AM (#239744) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: catspaw49 Rick is a truly nice guy, a good man, and an honest man. I'm a miserable prick, but I enjoy being a miserable prick. He's probably right I'm sure. But I admit that I got a little glee when I noticed that my trailer was back about a foot yesterday. I have a line marked so I can keep it as far out as possible. Like I said, I'm not a nice fellow. Spaw |
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08 Jun 00 - 12:48 AM (#239748) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Rick Fielding Sure you are! Rick |
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08 Jun 00 - 01:00 AM (#239751) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: katlaughing Love the wya BOTh of your minds work, Rick & Spaw! |
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08 Jun 00 - 01:03 AM (#239753) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Barbara Shaw So here I am at 1:00 in the morning with insomnia, letting the bastards get me down. Then I read Rick's kind words and resolve through the tears to lighten up and get over it. And then along comes the "miserable prick" with the unbelievable sense of humor and I'm waking everyone up with my laughter. Good night, guys. And thanks. |
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08 Jun 00 - 01:15 AM (#239755) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Rick Fielding Barb, forgive us! My God, what have we done? Tomorrow Catspaw and I will face off pantless at 30 paces just so the neighbours can decide WHICH prick should decide the day! My guess is they'll want us BOTH to leave the neighbourhood........so we'll move into yours! Thus causing YOUR neighbours to move to Ohio and Ontario. End of problem. Rick |
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08 Jun 00 - 01:22 AM (#239758) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: catspaw49 Great Zot!!!! I think you've hit upon the perfect solution Rick! I'll let the guy across the alley know so he can take Rutherford's Body Shop off retainer. Spaw |
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08 Jun 00 - 10:35 AM (#239893) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: SINSULL Gosh, I thought I had problems when the co-op objected to a dangerously placed, fire hazard of a welcome mat outside my door. Wish Spaw lived here. What fun we could have with the Garden Ladies and the Restoration Committee. |
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08 Jun 00 - 12:42 PM (#239933) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: richardw Kendall; Re moving a well: SeanM had the sense of it. Ours is a shallow well, ie dug not drilled. We got a driller out who said go way way the other direction, never mind the cost. Huh? Turned out he was also working for said neighbour. So we got a dowser. She said dig below the old well and you'll find water at 20 feet. So, we got an excavator at $110 an hour (this is the short version) who dug around and in the second big pit found water at 18 feet. We dumped in gravel then set the concrete well sections in so they were 6' above the ground. He backfilled, then we dumped in 10 loads of drain rock -3-4"- at $120 a load. Now we had to dig a ditch to connect to the old line. That ended up being 600 feet long, but, we replaced the old pipe with new larger diameter. Of course because of the new route the pump would no longer draw. There is certain rules of hydraulics I had to learn. One is that a surface pump will only draw up 25 feet. In theory. We are at 3500 feet, so deduct a few feet of drawn. Anyway aftern mcuh labour and a new pump we found we were at the theoretical maximum. Wouldn't work. So we moved all the equipment to the well site and constructed a new pump house .... As I said $10,000 later we have a good water system, plus time off in the middle of haying, plus aggravation ... But, hell, I now know lots about well construction. The neighbour is still a dink, but the big balance wheel in the sky hit him in the back of the head when he went to check a propane leak on his boat with a lit match. No more boat. He wasn't too badly hurt fortuantely. We gave him the Darwin award. My wife had a fence experience. Neighbour wanted to expanmd his driveway. Asked her and her husband to move the fence. No. I don't think so, they said. So he got nasty. Called in a surveyor. Found his driveway was already 6 inches over the line. Never mentioned it again. Must be a song there. Where's Paxton Cheers Richard
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08 Jun 00 - 01:23 PM (#239956) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Fiddlin' Big Al I moved to a small town in eastern WA about 8 years ago. Got elected to town council in self defense. Yes, neighbors can be a pain. Most of the time ordinances are selectively enforced. There may be scads of rules we're all violating and nothing is said unless someone complains. Contact your city council person and question the actions of the zoning officer. Most of the time the squeeky wheel of a complaining neighbor gets greased by some action like the visit you rec'd from the zoning zombie. It is amazing how far past the letter of the rules they will twist things in order to respond to a complaint. They may back down and admit you have a right to park or they may retaliate with more BS. It helps if you are not vulnerable on any other fronts. In any case, keep a record of names and dates and everything that is said to you by officials on the subject. If possible speak to them only in front of witnesses. This may seem paranoid, but it is not. Smile and be reasonable and nice but insistent on seeing chapter and verse on rules they attempt to enforce. Good luck. Remember all these people work for you if you pay taxes. Put up a fence and paint it flourescent orange on the neighbors' side if all else fails . |
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08 Jun 00 - 06:23 PM (#240084) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: kendall Spaw and Rick..how dare you leave out the most crusty egotistical prick of all. ME!! I have never started a row in my life, but, I take great joy in counter punching. Some years ago I lived out in the country, and here in Maine, many deeds say 69 acres, more or less. Land is so cheap here, we dont worry over a few feet either way. But, the old man who owned the adjoining property sold out, and a couple from N.J. bought it. First thing they did was have it surveyed. They came to me and said "Our surveyor says that our common boundry line runs right through the middle of your well. What do you propose to do about it.? I couldn't think of a reasonable answer to an unreasonable question, so, I just said "I dont know what you want to do with your half, I'll probably keep drowning cats in mine." To date, they have shown no interest in sharing that water. |
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08 Jun 00 - 06:42 PM (#240091) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Midchuck How long'd your well been there? I assume Maine has a Statute of Limitations. Peter. |
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08 Jun 00 - 06:57 PM (#240098) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: catspaw49 I think I heard Kendall say it had been there about 89 cats. Spaw |
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08 Jun 00 - 07:14 PM (#240108) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: McGrath of Harlow Rick's right on this, in my view. It's fun enough talking about feuds with neighbours, but in reality they're just a pain.
Unless you're going to do whatever is necessary to win, there's no point getting in a fight; and those are the kind of fights noone wins.
Of course there could be an alternatve strategy. Maybe a temporary house swap with catspaw would do the trick. He could fix it that she'd welcome you back with open arms. That wouldn't be vengeance, just corrective therapy.
That could be a whole new philanthropic way of life for someone - going from town to town helping neighbours get on better by making them feel lucky they didn't have you as a neighbour. Social work รก la Incredible Hulk. |
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08 Jun 00 - 07:49 PM (#240125) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Fiddlin' Big Al Rent the Belushi-Akroyd film "Neighbors". Things could be worse. If you need an electric fiddler, I'm IT. |
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08 Jun 00 - 07:58 PM (#240128) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: McGrath of Harlow Thread drift - I'm surprised by how many people across the Atlantic spell it "neighbours". And not just the Canadians, who I suppose might want to do it differently from the big fellas south of the border. Are both forms current in the States too? |
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08 Jun 00 - 08:02 PM (#240132) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Jeri Well, of course Rick's being sensible, but he can't help it. I'd honestly advise against doing what Catspaw said with the junk heap. This has no class at all, and lots of people have piles of rusted metal in their yards. Now if you were to hang Christmas lights on it... |
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08 Jun 00 - 08:13 PM (#240138) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: sophocleese It may not be sensible to do some of the suggtested things but its great fun to think of and sometimes that helps engage the sense of humour to help get through the situation. If you have access to the permanent art of a class of six year olds you could use them as garden sculptures. That way the kids get the thrill of seeing their stuff on public display and your neighbour can only look like a complete grump if she complains. My mom got upset once and wondered what the neighbours would say when I let my kids play with sidewalk chalk all over the driveway. I couldn't understand her concern; across the road is a marvelous gardener who is allowed to let her artistic and creative abilities run rampant in public view, why shouldn't my kids be allowed to do the same? The rain washed the problem away. |
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08 Jun 00 - 08:21 PM (#240140) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Barbara Shaw Bev and Jerry, you're right about some people believing RV's are a huge threat to civilized life in their sterile little neighborhoods. It's really amazing to hear seemingly intelligent people spout and sputter about protecting property values against them. Rick and spaw, you two are incorrigible. I leave to get some sleep and miss the pantless face-off to decide the prick of the day. Well, you'll have to have another one with Kendall. Just picture this, folks. The three of them. . .
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08 Jun 00 - 08:36 PM (#240144) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: sophocleese AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!!!! |
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08 Jun 00 - 10:41 PM (#240187) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Gypsy Try for the variance, and go in front of City Council. In spite of our overly tourist, small minded atmosphere here, our elected officials are pretty good, but ya gotta talk to them. Starting a feud with the neighbours is a no win situation. Chances are, they will play "can you top this" ad infinitum. Oh yeah, my final query: do you have a garage? Could you put the motorhome in that and the car onthe new pad that you poured? Might be a simple solution. |
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08 Jun 00 - 10:45 PM (#240190) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: kendall Get a flock of chickens, or, a couple of rabbits in a cage, and, dont clean them out for a week or so... |
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08 Jun 00 - 11:01 PM (#240198) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Barbara Shaw A guy at work suggested moving our compost pile to the property line. I like that one a lot. The camper is too high to get into the garage. That's where we kept our pop-top several years ago, but it didn't work for the trailer and doesn't work for the motorhome. I called the self-storage place where we kept our trailer for years, where I told them we no longer needed the spot now that we traded in the trailer for a motorhome. Asked for our spot back, and almost died when she said it was gone. She called back an hour later and said she rearranged a few things and got us our spot back. So we're going to just park the thing there, pay our $45 a month and get back to the music. And the small-minded, mean-spirited, trouble-making neighbor will have to find something else to occupy her empty mind. I'm still angry as hell at the treachery of some people, and disappointed that the convenience of having the camper ready for quick getaways is gone, and upset that we dug up a hedge, cut down a tree and built a new driveway for nothing. But we've got about 8 more festivals to look forward to this summer and a hundred friends waiting down the highway for a jam.
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09 Jun 00 - 12:52 AM (#240231) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Rick Fielding You're a smart woman Barbara. On the other hand, if you ever want three opinionated sarcastic sons of bitches to REALLY mess up your neighbourhood, Kendall, Catspaw and I are your men. Granted they both claim to have...oops I mean BE bigger pricks than me...but I've got an imagination that knows no bounds and can be talked into anything! By the way, although I do spell "neighbourhood" neighbourhood, I'd rather spell it nayb'rhood. That's just the way they taught me before I was expelled! Rick |
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09 Jun 00 - 05:23 AM (#240286) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Callie What a thread! You guys should rent yourselves out as The Mudcat Fix-It Dudes. Here's something no-one else has suggested, and it's probably the tack I'd try. The problem is the snotty neighbour. Whether the law is on your side or not, she'll still be snotty. If it's not the trailer, it'll be something else. SO - the long term solution is to get her on your side. You will have to employ some good acting techniques (and pretend you WANT to make friends) and some detective work. Where does she work? What makes her tick? Is there a charity she's sympathetic to? Does she like little dogs? Collect stamps? Find her weak spot and hit her with it. I've often found with those sorts of people, it's easier to win by APPEARING TO BE ON THEIR SIDE. Maybe a pipe dream, but maybe if you're able to come across as sympathetic on a topic she can understand, the rest would be easier. Good luck. Callie |
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09 Jun 00 - 07:18 AM (#240299) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: kendall It's clearly a control problem. Look at it this way..you have to look at her on occasion..she, however, must look at herself every day. |
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09 Jun 00 - 07:37 AM (#240306) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Barbara Shaw The betrayal is that we have been friendly, good neighbors for 15 years. For her to suddenly appoint herself zoning police in charge of neighborhood property values and then report us, behind our backs, is intolerable. This irrational reaction to an RV is unbelievable. The hypocrisy is that she claims that it wouldn't be so bad if we would put the camper on the OTHER SIDE of our house! I guess property values would only suffer on her side. I think I'm over the aggravation, and then all this fury bubbles up again. We bought the motorhome to make things easier on ourselves, to simplify and de-stress a little from high pressure jobs, a big house with lots of maintenance, eldercare pressures, etc. Now it's going to take two of us to bring it to storage (one to follow in the car) rather than one pulling the trailer. And now I've got this burning in my gut that needs an outlet. Enough venting. Gotta go to work. Sing one for me. |
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09 Jun 00 - 09:51 AM (#240346) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: SINSULL Guys Be sure you are far away from any of Kendall's wet cats for the face-off. It could get ugly. (Or uglier?) |
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09 Jun 00 - 12:13 PM (#240404) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Rick Fielding Well, you could deliver some poisoned "Eels in eel broth". That would take care of them.....or....or.....WAIT A MINUTE! (shit I wish I could do those BIG headlines that some do) FIND A WAY FOR THEM TO SEE THIS THREAD! Rick |
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09 Jun 00 - 12:24 PM (#240412) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: sledge I suggest calling on your neighbours and over a drink or two recount your traumatic days in the postal service, your liberal use of prozac and your new found interest in the NRA |
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09 Jun 00 - 06:28 PM (#240565) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: kendall Find out what party they support, then put up a big sign for the other. |
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09 Jun 00 - 06:34 PM (#240568) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: kendall Consider this...you are a very pretty lady, a talented musician, and married to another talented musician, and, a nice guy to boot. Now..what has that neighbor got going for her? Wanna swap with her? Never judge a man 'til you have walked a mile in his shoes. (by then, if he gets pissed off, you have a head start, AND his shoes) seriously, weigh what you have against what she has. |
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09 Jun 00 - 06:38 PM (#240571) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: McGrath of Harlow If she's that into property values, maybe she's planning to sell the house. Perhaps what she's really worried about is that the camper might put off some potential buyers when they come round.
In which case maybe you'll be shot of her soon, and the new ones might be OK. |
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09 Jun 00 - 06:47 PM (#240578) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Linda Kelly Solutions to a bad neighbour problem. 1. Make a truly obnoxious curry every night for a month 2. have sex very very loudly 3.Call a taxi,pizza delivery, ton of sand to be delivered to their address every night for a week. 4. grow Leylandi -this is a type of evergreen shrub that grows to about 250 foot within the space of about a week and a half and has been virtually banned in the UK. Personally, I prefer method number 2,it probably won't irritate the neighbours but you may get some personal satisfaction from it. |
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09 Jun 00 - 09:23 PM (#240624) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Barbara Shaw Wow! I'm going to save this thread forever. After all these nice things you've said, I should probably be grateful to the neighbor for giving me this opportunity to rake in some strokes. Not. Seriously, this thread really reflects the spectrum of reactions of a great group of people sticking up for one of their own, and I appreciate the support. I'm sure there are many quiet lurkers and untold bohillions not on the net who agree that RV's are a threat to life as we know it, but at least here we rally once again for the mudcat. If only people here had a sense of humor... Wow, again. |
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09 Jun 00 - 10:20 PM (#240643) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Gypsy Barbara, Kendall is right. With all that you have, you don't need to buy into her ugliness. You have alot of what life has to offer, and it sounds like all she has is vindictiveness. I'de hate to live in her skin. |
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09 Jun 00 - 11:52 PM (#240659) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Margo Barbara, whatever you decide to do, do it with merry eyes twinkling. Margo |
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10 Jun 00 - 12:20 AM (#240670) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: GUEST,CLETUS Catspaw sed az ta how I shud rite you an seez bout me an Paw an Buford an them Reg boyz comin ta your place ta house sit when yalls gone off in thet motorhome. Catspaw sed we cud sleep in yer garage senz he dint think az how weed be none too gud fer yur furnishins. weer all dun withen the assparagus farm an it dint work out too well cuz the cost of kleenin supplies ran kinda high whut with all them folks producin more poop than asparagus. But it did allow us ta xsplor nu venchers an thetz how we all got inta the portable crapper biznus. Senz we had all thet thair kleenin stuff, yu know them pooper scoopers and lemon smellin dissenfecterz an all we went an bilt ouselvz 6 reel purty outhouses on wheels and rigged up a trailer ta hawl em out uv the back end uv a 74 Ford pickup. We sorta ran outta money then so we aint got no pump ta pump em out with but senz weer all big fellers we jez pick em up and turn em over them we hoze out the leftovers. Catspaw sed there are a lot uv thingz goin on uppin yer way whair we mite git sum biznis and we figgert thet yer nabor wuddent mind ifn we parked at yer place ta house sit an do the kleenin an dumpin in thet nice area ya dun fixed up next ta yer house. When yer nabor seez whut fine fellers we ar, I doan think sheel mine a bit. Why weed even let her uze our "Crappers on Casters" fer free ifn she wanted ta save on kleenin her own bathroom. So ifn ya need us ta house sit an all jez tell us when yall will be gone an weel be there johnny on the spot, so to speak. The onliest problemz I kin think uv wud be thet Paw tot the Reg boyz how ta lite up farts and the four uv em ar allus gittin inta flarin contests an sumtimes they set stuff afire besides thair drawers. But ifn we do the kleenin an dumpin out thair on the gravel, mosta the stuff wud soke down yer naborz grass purty well so the fire risk wuddent be too much attall. CLETUS |
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10 Jun 00 - 02:25 PM (#240836) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: GUEST,hollowfox, visiting her folks Barbara, I wish I had a great suggestion to solve this, but outside of moving (fleeing, and letting the neighbor think she won), I don't. I'm glad you're enjoying all the vengance fantasies (mine involves having the local pipe band use your yard for practice sessions). Eventually the anger and stress will diminish until you give her less thought than you do your compost heap. Love, Mary |
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10 Jun 00 - 03:46 PM (#240874) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Barbara Shaw Good news: even though we had cancelled our self-storage contract, we can get our old spot back and a new contract. Bad news: the price went from $45/month to $59/month. Good news: the manager gave Frank a senior discount! Bad news: Frank was totally insulted, but cheap enough to accept (heehee). Good news: I wrote a song called "Bad Neighbors." Bad news: you can't hear it until I de-corn the lyrics. Could take years.
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10 Jun 00 - 07:06 PM (#240926) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: kendall Hey WE shared..now YOU share lol |
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11 Jun 00 - 03:23 PM (#241154) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: catspaw49 Dear Barb, I wanted to alert you that the boys have left and are heading for your place. I was unaware that Cletus had taken a serious interest in going your way and indeed the only reason I mentioned it was to get the "Crappers on Casters" out of MY driveway. Luckily, they had been doing the cleaning down at the carwash. On the other hand, that's probably what precipitated their move out of town. After supplying their services to a biker gang reunion, they were hosing down at the carwash when they accidentally spilled some of the mess on the mayor's car. This wasn't good and rather than risk further jail time or the mayor's shotgun, they left here late last night. I doubt they can find Connecticut on the best day they ever had, but I wanted to let you know that the possibility exists......blind hog and all that. They're driving Buford's pickup with the Reg boys in the back (probably flaring off a few). The trailer is really a hideous looking thing and when loaded with the outhouses, it a sight to behold so you won't have any trouble identifying them. The outhouses themselves are homemade affairs which they built with old counters and shelving that JC Penney was throwing out. To say they're ghastly looking is to put it mildly. Last time they went wandering, they were headed for the "Neil Young Center for the Terminally Screwed" in Montana and wound up in Bill's front yard in DC, so I wouldn't worry too much. Although maybe I should send a note to Rick since his half brothers, the Reg boys, did mention getting directions from him and they DO know where he lives. Maybe the border folks will get suspicious and detain them there. Spaw |
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11 Jun 00 - 05:14 PM (#241172) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Gary T You know, Spaw, you really should write a book. I'm chuckling trying to type this. You've got the gift. |
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11 Jun 00 - 05:28 PM (#241175) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: McGrath of Harlow It'd make a hell of a movie.
Would someone like to start casting it? And suggesting songs and tunes for the soundtrack? |
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11 Jun 00 - 05:35 PM (#241178) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: MarkS Hi Barbara - Hate to say it but I have to disgree with a lot of the sentiment expressed here. Not that I have ever had a disagreement with another 'Catter before, but hey.. My father once told me that when you meet the most miserable son-of-a-bitch you know in your life, the way to act is to stick out your hand and offer to shake, because you show to the rest of the world that at least you have better manners than they do. Best bet is to go through the variance process and hope for success, and regarding your neighbors, ignore them whenever possible and treat them with utmost civility when you cannot. You will show everybody else in the neighborhood that you have class and you will be able to sleep at night. |
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11 Jun 00 - 10:11 PM (#241250) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Rick Fielding Well if they're making a movie of Catspaw's life, it's gonna be hard to cast the lead role. Kinda need a combination of John Denver (some resemblance), Rasputin (well HE's the one who introduced the "prick" aspect), Henny Youngman (many felt that HE was unfunny too), Frankenstein (aren't they keepin you alive with other people's body parts, Pa?) and Norman Vincent Peale ('cause you ARE inspirational at times) Trouble is they's all deed! Oh, all right Pa...I'll take the role, but they'll have to cast Mariah Carey as the love interest. Rick P.S. Sorry Barb....this thread is supposed to be about YOU! I repent, as of now. |
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12 Jun 00 - 02:48 AM (#241328) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Terry K Back on topic - I agree entirely with MarkS. I have resisted putting in my two penn'orth but have been really disappointed in the way the responses take the revenge route (and can only assume most are "tongue-in-cheek"). Barbara caused the situation by doing something that her neighbour objected to, so it was up to Barbara to find an equable solution. Which I understand she did - well done for rising above the situation. Bear in mind that trying to get revenge is available to both sides of any argument - that's how positions polarise and things escalate out of all proportion. Here in UK, most modern housing developments are protected by legal covenant to prevent people parking caravans on their drives - this didn't just happen, it's by (mostly) common consent. Those roads not so protected can look like hell with caravans of various age, condition, lurid colours etc, and no way to prevent it. It's all about trying to make life a little nicer. So if one of my neighbours wanted to move a TWENTY THREE FOOT trailer in next door to me, you can be sure I would be as pissed off as Barbara's neighbour. But I hope I would have gone about it in a more sensitive way!! Cheers, Terry |
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12 Jun 00 - 03:11 AM (#241332) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: GUEST,April790 And they call this a "free" country?? You could always park the camper somewhere else or sell it to your neighbor and bring the festival to your yard...you know other campers and tents, jamming till 3 a.m., portable barbecues everywhere, porta-potties along the alley, happy kids running all over everyone's lawns...I'll bet your neighbor(s) would love it--a mini-Woodstock. *grin* |
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12 Jun 00 - 09:38 AM (#241407) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: kendall Old Maine proverb..Never wrestle with a pig..you both get dirty, but, the pig likes it. |
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12 Jun 00 - 10:35 AM (#241442) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Barbara Shaw Just dropped off this letter at the zoning commission office, and will send a copy to the "bad neighbor": As requested, we are writing you a note to describe our solution to the potential zoning violation. We have decided that it would be too costly to further modify our property to park our recreational vehicle according to the setback requirements, and so will pay to store it at a self-storage facility when not in use. It is truly unfortunate that we cannot park our own camper in our own yard, and must pay $50 per month to store it elsewhere, primarily because one neighbor was offended by the sight. My husband and I were very surprised to find that this was not just another vehicle that we could park in our own driveway. One of the main reasons we traded in our trailer for a motorized RV was to eliminate the need to pay for storage. We took out a hedge, cut down a tree, turned over a huge area of sod, had stone delivered and spread the stone ourselves to make a new driveway, tucked beside our garage where it would fit neatly into the environment. One never knows what (if anything) goes through people's minds who feel that civilized life and property values are threatened by RV's!! We were deeply saddened that someone we thought was a good neighbor for 15 years felt the need to complain about us to the zoning board, rather than speaking to us about her issues after seeing the RV. Thanks for your considerate attention and sensitive comments. |
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12 Jun 00 - 07:55 PM (#241704) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Barbara Shaw Sorry. Changed my mind and will NOT be sending a copy of this letter to the neighbor. I have no wish to receive a response, don't want to spend another minute stewing about her, don't want to get into a verbal war, so it's getting dropped. I apologize to everyone who's had to listen to all this venting, but thank everyone who offered (wonderful) suggestions and support. Kendall, Rick and catspaw ought to collaborate on a book. And on that note (see, music!) . . . The End.
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12 Jun 00 - 11:41 PM (#241813) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: catspaw49 Actually Barb its not yet. Added to my list of Thread Creeps is one from Shamble's which fits here. Its called "Dead Thread Creep." Happens when someone, most often the originator, tries to kill a thread and the sucker just keeps going. First, yeah, I am happy for you and with your wise decisions. But don't apologize for the wise decision of venting here. I know we have some folks who don't agree with me, but that's a part of this place too. We talk as friends and we should. Music brought us together here, but the community can, should, and does, encompass much more. So do our lives. Thanks for sharing. Spaw |
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13 Jun 00 - 12:15 AM (#241826) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: DonMeixner Utah Phillips was rumored to have lived in a caboose on an abandoned siding somewhere. The Code Gods wrote him up for living in an unzoned mobile home. He welded the wheels to the track. Case closed. I often wondered if it was real or folklore. Don |
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13 Jun 00 - 12:17 PM (#241975) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: kendall write and ask him. His address is: Utah Phillips PO box1235 Nevada City CA. 95959. It sure sounds like something he would do. |
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20 Aug 01 - 02:41 PM (#531948) Subject: Lyr Add: THE FAMILY OVERHEAD From: Charley Noble When do we get Barb's song "Bad Neighbors"? While we're waiting I thought I'd paste in this old one in my collection: No housing songbook would be complete without a tenant/tenant hassle song. Who hasn't had the grim experience of sharing a common wall, floor, or ceiling with obnoxious neighbors? The typical response to such disruption of one's "quiet enjoyment of the premises" begins with polite remonstrations, followed by notes tacked on the door, midnight phone calls, pounding on the walls, and the stereo barrage. This old song recalled by Jimmie Gavin of Brooklyn, New York, captures the spirit of such moments. Jimmie had a long history as an organizer, for many years working with the National Maritime Union and after retirement working to organize tenants. As Jimmie recalls: "This song was written by a pal of mine, Bill Rogers, back in 1935 while he was serving time in Sing Sing. Bill was a strong arm man for the Union. Many the time we'd be having a drink on the West Side and he'd sing this song." THE FAMILY OVERHEAD (Words by Bill Rogers. Circa 1935 As sung by Jimmie Gavin in 1982 Tune: traditional Son of a Gambolier) Upstairs there lives a family, Gilhooley is their name, And I haven't had a wink of sleep Since in the house they came. Chorus: With their howling and their bowling, They'd wake the fxxxing dead; They're a bunch of filthy bastards, Are the family overhead! The old man he comes raving home, He pounds the bastard walls; The old lady plays "Mavornian" Till she'd burst your fxxxing balls. (CHO) Oh, there's Norey and there's Corey And the cursed Christ on Kate; There's Ninnie and there's Denny And they're never home till late. (CHO) The other night I lay asleep, I had a pleasant dream; I dreamt that I was floating In a lake so cool and clean. You can swim right all around me now, Dive from me fxxxing bed, For they've broke the bleeding waterpipe, Them bastards overhead! (CHO) Peace, Landlady's Daughter, not to be confused with Charley Noble
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21 Aug 01 - 03:58 AM (#532277) Subject: Lyr Add: THE PEOPLE UPSTAIRS (from H Imlach) From: Wolfgang THE PEOPLE UPSTAIRS The people upstairs all practise ballet Their living room is a bowling alley Their bedroom is full of conducted tours. Their radio is louder than yours, They celebrate week-ends all the week. When they take a shower, your ceilings lead. They try to get their parties to mix By supplying their guests with Pogo sticks, And when their fun at last abates, They go to the bathroom on roller skates. I might love the people upstairs more If only they lived on another floor. By Ogden Nash. Wolfgang (I know it sung by H. Imlach) |
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21 Aug 01 - 04:03 AM (#532278) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Wolfgang I copied it from a Nash site, but I think it is safe to replace 'lead' in line 6 by 'leak'. Wolfgang |
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21 Aug 01 - 10:06 AM (#532429) Subject: RE: Bad Neighbors From: Charley Noble Thank you, Wolfgang! Somehow I've missed that jewel. LD |