15 Jun 00 - 01:34 PM (#242915) Subject: Irish Titles From: GUEST,Banjo Johnny Is there a place to find help on pronouncing Irish (Gaelic) song titles? I have a bunch of them in books & such, and it would help to know how to say them. Would also be nice to know what they mean, but that may be asking too much. Johnny in OKC |
15 Jun 00 - 01:45 PM (#242921) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: MudGuard Perhaps this site can help you! MudGuard |
15 Jun 00 - 07:04 PM (#243100) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: GUEST,Banjo Johnny Thanks, Mud Guard! That hits the spot. Johnny in OKC |
15 Jun 00 - 09:36 PM (#243169) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: Irish sergeant Johnny: You may also find that a good Irish dictionary is helpful or find a book called Irish Self Taught. Many of the bigger book stores will carry one or the other. I suggest that you pick up one or the other because there were revisions to siomplify Irish -Gaelic spelliong when Ireland gained its freedom and started teaching Irish as a required course of education. Some song titles will obviously pre-date that time. (1922 or so) Aine, can you help? My Irish what very little I know is limited basically to hello and kiss my a**. And before i get the lecture, that I richly deserve given my mudcat handle, I promise to try ever so much harder, Neil |
15 Jun 00 - 10:00 PM (#243181) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: Bluebeard Thanks MudGuard, I've been wonderin' what to do about my need to understand more about my ancestral language. That looks like a likely and helpful site. Slainte !
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16 Jun 00 - 07:22 AM (#243295) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: MudGuard I also found some Irish/Scottish/Manx-Gaelic to English dictionaries MudGuard (who is always glad if he can help) |
16 Jun 00 - 10:06 AM (#243352) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: Áine Well done, Mudguard. Those are very good reference sites for beginners. And Banjo Johnny, if you can't figure out the titles of your tunes/songs with the help of the dictionaries, then please ask for help on the Mudcat. There are several of us who could help you out. Good luck, Áine |
16 Jun 00 - 11:59 AM (#243420) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: GUEST,Curious There is an Irish folk song that I think I know the chorus to, but cannot figure out the title. I would love some assistance if anyone knows. The lyrics that I know are: "It's a long, long way from Claire to here," and I know that line is repeated several times throughout the song. Anyone know what its called? Thanks! |
16 Jun 00 - 12:08 PM (#243423) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: MMario Curios Guest, The song, oddly enough, is known as "From Clare To Here" or "CLARE TO HERE" and the lyrics may be found at the blue clickie thing url=http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=1201
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16 Jun 00 - 12:33 PM (#243431) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: GUEST,Curious MMario, that's the one. Thank you very much! |
16 Jun 00 - 04:29 PM (#243495) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: GUEST,Banjo Johnny Mud Guard et al. -- Fantastic! How in the world do you come up with them?? Now I can finally translate Manx to Klingon. Thanks again! Johnny in OKC |
16 Jun 00 - 07:20 PM (#243560) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: Irish sergeant Here's a go if any one is sick enough to do it tranlate Seven deadly sins into Klingon. Neil |
17 Jun 00 - 12:41 AM (#243680) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: GUEST,Banjo Johnny Just a joke, sarge. I just read about a guy who spent the last five years translating the Bible into Klingon. Can hardly wait til it comes out. Johnny in OKC |
17 Jun 00 - 06:20 AM (#243730) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: Lanfranc Just a small point, although obviously Irish in influence, "Clare to Here" was written by Ralph McTell, who, I understand, is a bit sniffy about havin his lyrics available on the WWW. It's still a good song. Is there scope for a thread about the adoption by Irish singers of non-Irish songs which are subsequently assumed to be of Irish Origin ("Green Fields of France", "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda", "Sylveste", "Clare to Here" etc.) I await the first such that acquires a Gaelic title. I remember an introduction that gave me a smile - "Will you welcome Chris Newman and Maire Ni Ch.. , Maire Ni Chow, oh, sod it, the fine harpist Mary the Unpronounceable!"
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17 Jun 00 - 08:42 AM (#243744) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: MudGuard These links I gathered thru some years of web-surfing. Everytime I find something interesting, it gets stored - you never know when you will need it again... MudGuard (with a capital G but without a blank between Mud and Guard) |
17 Jun 00 - 02:14 PM (#243827) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: Noreen To carry on Alan's thread of 'adopted' Irish songs, my Grimbarian husband is amused at the regular appearance of the Bill Meek/John Connolly song, "Fiddlers' Green", in compilations of Irish folk songs. I've also heard of more than one folk group with names based on the song. I'm not sure whether the composers, who I believe are still writing and performing in Grimsby, find it so amusing! |
18 Jun 00 - 07:46 AM (#243991) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: InOBU Ah the danger of Irish mispronunciation. A funny story told to me by the past pres of the New York Celtic League... a neo pagan came up to him at a part and in hushed tones said, Do you do it? Liam pretended not to hear, the fellow repeted it several times, at which time Liam patted his arm and said, I am sorry but, though I don't feel anything is wrong with it perse, I am not gay! Red faced the neo pagan explained that he was self almost taught Irish and was trying to say Dia duit! Probably one of these fellows who sais Sam Hain rahter than sow win for Samhain - oh well, tred lightly on the mother tongue Larry |
19 Jun 00 - 02:38 AM (#244301) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: GUEST,BANJO JOHNNY As I make it out, "dia dhuit" (good day) would be pronounced something like JEE-a Ghootch. Close? |
19 Jun 00 - 02:58 AM (#244303) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: alison Gee-a-gwitch, or Dee-a-gwitch..... depending on which part of Ireland. The one with the "G" is the Donegal version. If I remember rightly "Dia dhuit" translates as "God to you". The reply being "God and Mary to you"... "Dia's Muire dhuit" pronounce roughly ... Gee-as-moor-a-gwitch..... there you go... astound your gaelic speaking friends slainte (slawn-sha = your good health / cheers) alison |
19 Jun 00 - 08:54 PM (#244693) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: Irish sergeant Thanks all: I've learned a bit tonight. Dias Mhuir a dhuit is also used to say hello in some parts of Ireland and the response is Ta agus (Forgive the lack of accents) which in rough translation is And you also. Have a great night, Neil |
19 Jun 00 - 11:27 PM (#244765) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: GUEST,Michael Hayes ok, you guys are my last hope. A search engine led me here, after sending me off on multiple wild-goose chases. Dejanews turned up a thread hinting that the answer I seek was in an older thread, but _that_ thread apparently isn't in the archive. Hours have passed. So, someone, PLEASE... what does "An Phis Fhliuch" mean, and how is it pronounced? All my searching has turned up only that it may or may not be "the (something) wet", and that an alternate title is "The Choice Wife" -- hey, this isn't going to turn out to be one of those "Cuckoo's Nest" kind of things, is it?!?!? please, just tell me -- I think it was daylight when I started this quest... |
19 Jun 00 - 11:40 PM (#244770) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: alison Hi Michael, welcome to Mudcat.... you are usually better to start a new thread for each request otherwise they get lost in ones like this and make it difficult to find again.. I don't know this tune but have heard it mentioned before... and apparently it translates as "the wet c*nt", hence the alternative title of "the choice wife".... I am not going to attempt the pronounciation slainte alison |
20 Jun 00 - 01:13 AM (#244800) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: GUEST,Michael Hayes alison, thanks much! Well, that explains why I couldn't find a full translation at the dictionary site, and why the title is always given in Gaelic. It's a great tune, it's a slip jig -- I transcribed it off a Planxty album a while back, where it's in a set with "The Kid on the Mountain" -- anyway, I was going through old notebooks tonight and thought I'd try to look up the meaning of the title. OK -- I found the link to the pronunciation guide earlier in this thread, "an phis (fish)" I think I understand (or do I), "fhliuk" I can't quite decipher, the dipthong "iu" isn't listed in the charts, and the rules are a little confusing. "lyuke", is that somewhere close? Anyone? what a great site! thanks
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20 Jun 00 - 08:56 AM (#244881) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: alison according to my notes.... "fh" makes no sound.... so I guess at lee-yuck... any chance of a copy of the tune Michael? I love slip jigs.... slainte alison |
20 Jun 00 - 09:02 AM (#244885) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: Áine alison - I'd be interested in where you got that translation for the 'an phis fhliuch' - which I would translate as 'the wet (or spongy) peas'. Maybe I don't move in the right circles, but I've never heard 'pis' used as a euphemism for the other word you mentioned. Also, the 'is' in 'pis' in this case is pronounced almost like the English word 'peas'; at least, I've never heard it pronounced any other way (even in Donegal). And Irish sergeant, alison is correct in her post saying that the correct response to 'Dia duit' is 'Dia is Muire duit'. (If you said 'Tá agus', all you'd be saying is 'Is and') This is a formal and old fashioned greeting, however lovely; most folks just say 'halo' when they meet each other (unless, of course, they're at a Conradh meeting (hahaha)). -- Áine |
20 Jun 00 - 09:09 AM (#244887) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: barrygeo An phis fhliuch correct pronuncuiation. On fish fluck Will vary slightly depending on which gaeltacht area you are in. Slan agus Beannacht leat(traditional farewell - Health and blessings go with you - is literal translation) BMacG |
20 Jun 00 - 01:02 PM (#244987) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: GUEST,Michael Hayes thanks to all for the replies! Alison, my pencilled scribblings don't scan well, and I just dl'd some abc utitlities so am just sorting out how to use it. Luckily though I think the tune is already in the Ceolas abc archive -- one of the hits I got last night from altavista took me to a Ceolas ftp directory. If it's not there post back to this thread, and I'll try to get it into abc -- the version I have is taken off of Planxty's "The Well Below The Valley". heh, this place is addictive, I've already squandered two day's practice time reading here...
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20 Jun 00 - 01:20 PM (#244991) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: Fiolar Just in passing = "Pis" is also the word in Irish for "A Pit." So the "The Wet Pit" could be in order. Potatoes were stored at one time in a pit. Great care had to be taken to ensure that they remained dry over the Winter months, otherwise they rotted. I doubt very much if it meant the "C" word as that is more likely to be "faighean." Mike |
20 Jun 00 - 08:21 PM (#245154) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: Irish sergeant Aine: I stand corrected and if i could remember who told me that by error i'm sure, I would also correct them. My apologies Alison, I overloarded the mouth before engaging the grey matter! Mea culpa, Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Thank you all for broadening my horizons, Neil PS Good to hear from you again Aine!! |
21 Jun 00 - 11:34 AM (#245432) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: GUEST,Michael Hayes Alison, I'd guess you've already figured this out, but the abc of "An Phis Fhliuch" is not at Ceolas, but here: http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/index/wwabc.html the info-glut is a bit overwhelming -- I was marginally aware that there was some info on Irish tunes on the net, but my god!!! Hope the link works ok, I don't know how to do HTML, but it should appear as text anyway. thanks to everyone!
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21 Jun 00 - 11:44 AM (#245439) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: alison Michael I found it here at JC's tune finder.. great site for finding tunes by the way.... available as MIDI, GIF, abc etc....... slainte alison
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21 Jun 00 - 11:47 AM (#245441) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: alison Interestingly they translate it on the GIF as "The wet pussy" or "the boy in the bush" here's the home page for JC's ABC tune finder slainte alison |
22 Jun 00 - 12:37 PM (#245895) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: GUEST,Michael Hayes yeah, that seems to be the consensus -- well, whatever the inspiration for "An Phis Fhliuch", it was clearly something the composer held in great esteem, it's a wonderful tune ;) There's a brief history of it at the Fiddler's Companion site, worth a look. the "tune finder" link simplifies things quite a bit, thank you!
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24 Oct 11 - 07:10 PM (#3244187) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: GUEST,GM ten years too late - but just to save Alison - as a fluent Irish speaker: "pis" (sometimes "pit" - Irish word, not a pit for potatoes as someone incorrectly stated...!)is most definitely as she translated. Its can also be "pea" but... :) It is one of the pasttimes in Irish speaking circles to request that tune on the radio to hear the DJ squirm |
08 Apr 12 - 04:51 PM (#3335473) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: GUEST,Jennifer Most Irish musicians who don't want to get beer thrown at the by female session-mates call An Phis Fhliuch by the original title, O'Farrell's Welcome to Limerick. That name is in the 1801 O'Farrell's National Tutor. Willie Clancy recorded it as The Choice Wife, which is another inoffensive alternative. |
09 Apr 12 - 07:00 AM (#3335633) Subject: RE: Irish Titles From: Jim Carroll "which is another inoffensive alternative...." Wonder what they'd make of Clancy's "I buried my wife and I'll dance on her grave"!! Jim Carroll |