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16 Jun 00 - 05:27 PM (#243517) Subject: Sephardic Songs From: GUEST,Annraoi More about Macaronic song. My work is progressing, if slowly. A new source has come my way: the songs of the Sephardim who fled Spain in 1492 and sought sanctuary in the lands surrounding the Mediterranean Sea. I have two macaronic songs belonging to this tradition. I require a translateion for the non-Ladino bits of both. One is called "Yad Anuga" and the other "Una Ora En La Ventana" Any takers anyone ? Annraoi |
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16 Jun 00 - 08:56 PM (#243601) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: GUEST,Guest:Doris I called my friend, Joe, who sings and collects Ladino songs. He says he knows both of the songs you list and can help you with translation. His email address is: ladinoelias@home.com Respond quickly because he is going to a special sing tomorrow where there will be another Ladino singer (a charming woman, gentle, with a warm voice). If Joe doesn't know what you need, he can then refer the question to her. This is one great forum. I enjoy going into it sometimes every day!. |
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16 Jun 00 - 09:51 PM (#243613) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: Chocolate Pi there's a Boston-area group (or at least there was several years ago when they came into the schools and taught us "Ocho Candelitas") that does Ladino songs called "Voice of the Turtle" (from the Song of Solomon: "And lo, the winter is past, and the voice of the turtle is heard through the land"). Chocolate Pi (exhausted from working ten-hour days at the lab) |
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17 Jun 00 - 01:49 AM (#243705) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: Alice I learned one Ladino song, YO M'ENAMORI D'UN AIRE, from a Jewish woman. She has a book of Ladino songs. I will ask her about the two you are looking for. Alice |
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17 Jun 00 - 04:04 AM (#243715) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: Jack The Lad Re: Voice of the Turtle. This is an old mistranslation, and should read "the voice of the turtle dove" turtles don't have much of a voice- and I should hate to have the land filled with their voices. the cooing of the turtle dove is pleasant and common sound here in spring. Jack The Lad- Israel |
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17 Jun 00 - 08:40 AM (#243742) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: Sapper_RE Lucy Skeaping (sp) has a CD with both Sephardic and Ashkenazi songs. On either Saydisc or Amon Ra (same firm), it comes with a words booklet. Bob |
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17 Jun 00 - 12:36 PM (#243801) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: Alice I just re-read your question, and apparently you do have the lyrics and need translation. Can you post the lyrics here? I am on the phone with my friend right now who is a canotor and has studied Ladino music and teaches Hebrew. "Yad" is the hand of God, out of the Hebrew language in a classical sense. "Yad" is also the name of a pointer used when reading the Torah (so you don't touch the scroll, not to damage it) and it hangs on the side of the Torah when it is wrapped up. "Ora" is a derivative of the word light, "or" in Hebrew. Ventana, being window in Spanish, a feminine word, "or" becomes "ora". There is also a Yiddish song that translates to A Light In The Window. The light in the window is the woman lighting the Shabbat candles on Friday at sundown. The man goes to the synagouge, and since nobody used electricity in those days on the sabbath (shabbat), and still don't in Orthodox communities, the men would find their way home to the light in the window of the two sabbath candles burning.
Give me more details, and she can translate.
I just found more on a search of the net. Yad Anuga may not originally be Ladino, since it was written in Poland, first published in Vilna, which was the center of the greatest cantorial work ever, according to my friend, who has a PhD in Cantorial music. Because of the place it was witten, it would have been Ashkanasi, not Ladino. In the early days of the state of Israel, many Mediterranean Jews were already there before Israel became a modern nation. They spoke Sephardic Hebrew, and since this song became a popular pioneer song, that may be why you identified it as Sephardic. It is actually from Vilna, Poland, so it would not be Sephardic. Be that as it may, she will look for it in her music, and I will online.
Here is what I found on the internet: THE TRANSFORMATION OF ZALMAN SHNEUR'S POEM "YAD ANUGA" INTO A POPULAR SONG
Hagit Matras and Yaacov Mazor
"Yad Anuga", one of Zalman Shneur's famous poems was first published by Y.H. Brenner in his literary periodical Hame'orer which appeared in London in February 1906, a fact that was not even mentioned by Shneur himself. The song can be found in print with the notes of its well-known melody and in the memory of many people since the 1920s. However, by reading through correspondence between Brenner and his friends during the first decade of the century we find that the song was then sung to a different melody. The present project was begun a few years ago to try to ascertain whether there actually was an earlier melody and whether it can still be traced.
The article outlines the path followed by the authors - unpublished correspondence, published material and ongoing field work, inter-viewing many people - that led them to the discovery of as close a version of the "first melody" as possible, and also to learn about the conditions which made possible the connection between the words and the melody of "Yad Anuga" in Vilna, near the time of the poem's first publication.
The authors concluded that "Yad Anuga" "behaved" very much like other songs of its time: it was written and set to music in Europe at the beginning of the century. It then migrated to Eretz Israel as the poem of a famous young Zionist, becoming widespread in a melody adopted from the local repertoire. Later it was transported back to its "homeland" in its new form which completely overcame the first melody, becoming one of the well-known "pioneer" songs, and as such it returned to Eretz Israel.
My friend's email, Suzanne Gorder, gorders@mcn.net
mine |
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17 Jun 00 - 12:55 PM (#243807) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: Alice More on the melody, as noted earlier, the original melody is different than this one. I found this on a website for a recording of the song: CD CUT 6, "YAD ANUGA" (GENTLE HAND) COMP TRAD (WITH A LYRIC BY ZALMAN SHNEUR) PRESUMABLY ARR BY SAVINA YANNATOU (Haunting & spare - female voice alone: a famous "Israeli" song with a lyric penned early this century by the man who later became Israel's first minister of education.. melody is an old Bedouin one & is also allegedly a "Greek" lullaby from Constantinople) Henry, if you go to http://www.dogpile.com and type in the titles of each song in "Yad Anuga" quotation marks, you will get lots of info. |
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17 Jun 00 - 02:50 PM (#243838) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: GUEST,Annraoi Thank you all for your interest and help. I might have guessed you would come to my rescue. Alice, thank you in particular. I was aware of the origins of Ladino, that is why I required a translation of those parts of the song which were not in that language. It is particularly enlightening to know the background and "travel" of the song. The melody I have is the Arabic / Bedouin one you refer to. It is really nice. I will cetrtainly follow the advice of all of you. However, let not that put you off sending me any more info that comes your collective way. Annraoi |
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18 Jun 00 - 01:34 AM (#243959) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: Joe Offer Hi - we had a discussion of another Ladino song a few weeks ago - "Los Bilbilicos," which Richard Farna changed into "The Swallow Song." You can find the discussion if you use the filter and search for "swallow." Also take a look at Zemerl, the Jewish Song Database - there's a link on our "links" page. Ordinarily, I could send you right to it, but I can't figure out how to copy-and-paste URLs with my dad's WebTV. -Joe Offer, on vacation- |
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18 Jun 00 - 01:24 PM (#244074) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: Alice Here you go. I had that site in my bookmarks, I should have provided it before. Zemerl click here There is a bulletin board there where you can post your questions. alice |
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19 Jun 00 - 05:20 PM (#244616) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: GUEST,Annraoi Alice, Tried out your Zelerl site. Great stuff !! Annraoi |
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19 Jun 00 - 08:26 PM (#244680) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: GUEST,Annraoi Sorry, Alice, that should read "Zemerl" Kon Muncho Karinyo, Annroai |
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22 Jun 00 - 09:53 PM (#246214) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: GUEST,Andy I wish I knew more about this type of song. My nodding relationship only serves to whet my appetite. The lyrics of the couple of songs I have heard are so direct and passionately honest and simple in their language as to be almost painful in their intensity. There is one particular image which haunts me. The lover describes his/her longing as follows:- "Para eskrivir mis amores El sielo kero por papel, La mar kero por tinta." Match that !!! Andy |
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01 Jul 00 - 03:11 PM (#250151) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: GUEST,Annraoi Thanks, Alice, having corrected your spelling of "Zemerl" I hoisted myself with my own petard and proceeded to misspell my own name !! Ayelet, we have already been in contact through another Traditional Music list. Thanks to you for all your help No doubt I'll be calling on you again. The Zemerl site is well worth a visit, especially as it provides some sound clips. Very interesting as there are two versions of songs which I already know: "Los Bilbilikos" and "La Mar", which is the one with the very intense romantic images which Andy mentioned. It has another very striking image which describes the wishes of the young man to be a fisherman if the sea were of milk and to catch in his nets all his pain (of love, of course, the sweetest of pains which none of us would ever wish to forego.)Very striking images in very simple language - very powerful and intense. Keep this thread going. I feel there is a lot more info. lurking out there. Where is Philippa ? Annraoi |
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02 Jul 00 - 07:37 AM (#250525) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: GUEST Refresh |
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16 Oct 08 - 11:39 PM (#2467944) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: Joe Offer Here's a new Website that looks interesting:Take a look. Joel Bresler put an amazing amount to work into this Website. -Joe- |
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17 Oct 08 - 12:14 AM (#2467961) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: Q (Frank Staplin) This well-documented Judeo-Spanish site has some very interesting songs. Folk Literature of the Sephardic Jews Contains the Armistad and Silverman Collections. Jordi Savall has issued some excellent cd collections on the label AliaVox (Spain). |
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17 Oct 08 - 04:15 AM (#2468030) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: Jack Blandiver Thanks for that, Joe. Looks amazing. Otherwise... Jordi Savall's Diaspora Sephardi is a sumptuous double disk reflecting vocal & instrumental traditions, though best try MDT who usually do Alia Vox titles quite cheaply around December / January - at least they have done these past two years. There is an earlier, and cheaper (and less successful in my opinion) Savall collection from 1975, reissued in 1999 by Virgin Veritas as Music from Christian & Jewish Spain. There is a Naxos disk, Sephardic Romances from Ensemble Accentus (featuring Pedro Estevan!) which at £5 isn't bad at all. |
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17 Oct 08 - 06:07 AM (#2468078) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: Jack Campin There are some interesting Sephardic recordings coming out of Turkey. "Sefarad" are one band that have become extremely popular (using rather rocked-up arrangements and the image of a boy band, but hey, it works). And Kalan (www.kalan.com) have quite a few things, very well presented with multilingual notes. And here's Joel Bresler's announcement of his site, as just posted to rec.music.early. I am very pleased to announce the launch of my site, www.sephardicmusic.org. The site chronicles the first 100 years of commercial Sephardic recordings. It includes survey articles on the 78 and modern eras, a comprehensive discography of Sephardic 78s, and a sample of what a proposed discography of modern-era recordings could look like. I have tried to take advantage of the web's multimedia capabilities to expand well beyond the normal contents of a discography (artist, title, place and date recorded, etc.) Wherever possible, I include label graphics and sound samples. A Union Catalog feature shows which public institutions own a particular recording, and I have normalized the songs' titles so that users can find all versions of any given song. Last, I have included information on the labels that published these recordings, the artists that made them, and the stores that sold them. I also included a relatively detailed discussion about the question of Sephardic music as Medieval music. I will look forward to your comments. I would also like to thank the list's management and participants for the help provided me over the past decade. Joel Bresler, Publisher sephardicmusic.org 250 E. Emerson Road Lexington, MA 02420 United States www.sephardicmusic.org 1-781-862-4104 (Telephone & FAX) joel.br@verizon.net IN CASE OF VERIZON EMAIL PROBLEMS, PLEASE USE MY BACK-UP EMAIL: joelbresler-at-gmail.com |
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21 Sep 11 - 05:57 PM (#3226826) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: Q (Frank Staplin) Recordings and books available from Jewish Music Research Centre: http://www.jewish-music.huji.ac.il Posting this because the link given to this organization in the website given by Jack does not work for me. |
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24 Sep 11 - 08:06 AM (#3228263) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sephardic Songs From: GUEST,Judith Cohen Did you find the translations you wanted from "Una ora en la ventana" / "La comida la manyana"? I have worked with Sephardic songs for many years. www.yorku.ca/judithc |