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24 Jun 00 - 11:04 AM (#246959) Subject: Mudcatters are losers From: MandolinPaul Sorry kids. I don't mean it, of course. I've just noticed a pattern lately. People start up threads with obnoxious titles, then say "Now that I have your attention, here's what I really want to say."
This is usually followed by a bunch of people saying, "Here here".
I'm not making a judgement - just an obversation. I thought it was time I got in on the game.
Besides, every once in a while I have to do something to make somebody think I'm a real dink. Paul. |
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24 Jun 00 - 11:11 AM (#246960) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: DougR Hmm. Have you ever talked to your doctor about that? :>) DougR |
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24 Jun 00 - 11:23 AM (#246962) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Rick Fielding Actually Paul, if you'd looked a little farther back, you might have seen some ambiguous attention grabbing headers that also involved a bit of thought (and dare I say it?) wit. It's a little harder that way...but more fun. ....on the other hand, the moment we fell in love with "unpopular" (as in folk etc.) music, we all qualified as "losers". If you were sittin' in a cafe, with a bottle of wine, a pack of Galois (optional) and listenin' to someone's life story...who'd you rather have there with you... George Bush jr. (an obvious "winner") or Ramblin' Jack Elliot? Rick (happy as a clam to be a "loser") |
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24 Jun 00 - 11:29 AM (#246965) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: MandolinPaul That's easy, Rick. I'd rather be with Bush. He can afford better drugs. Paul. |
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24 Jun 00 - 11:29 AM (#246966) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Mbo But to quote ELO "A loser in her heart, but on her face a smile for everyone under God's grace..." |
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24 Jun 00 - 11:41 AM (#246973) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: catspaw49 Okay Paul.........You're a real dink. Feel better now? Happy to help. Spaw |
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26 Jun 00 - 01:08 PM (#247099) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Bill D ....and besides, the expression of wild agreement is spelled "hear, hear"...."here, here" is what you might use to call your dog... Bill D., pedantic curmudgeon in residence (wanna hear me expound on 'accept' & 'except'?)*grin* |
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26 Jun 00 - 01:22 PM (#247112) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: SINSULL And "take" and "bring"? And "affect" and "effect"? RE: Loser Status. I once was lost but now am found. Quite happy to be a "Dink" in residence. SS |
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26 Jun 00 - 01:50 PM (#247135) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Jon Freeman Aw come on you lot those are big words - its and it's causes me enough trouble. Jon |
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26 Jun 00 - 01:56 PM (#247144) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: kendall There is a new restaurant in my town, and it is called The Maine Way..seafood at it's best!! it's driving me nuts, and I dont know if they did it on purpose, or if they are ignorant of the difference. Why is that so hard? it's is a contraction of it is. Simple. |
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26 Jun 00 - 02:10 PM (#247158) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Jon Freeman Sorry Kendall, I don't except that its simple ;-) BTW, what's the seafood like? Jon |
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26 Jun 00 - 02:22 PM (#247171) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Alice Rick, I didn't catch whether you went to your school reunion. This thread reminds me of high school for some reason. The talk shows have had a rash of high school losers coming back to show their torments how "hot" they are now that their acne cleared up and they have contact lenses (me in junior high school - bad hair cut, ugly glasses, spotty skin and nerdy clothes). Hey... a reunion of losers - welcome to the Mudcat. *It is* great to be here. |
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26 Jun 00 - 03:35 PM (#247217) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Songster Bob Rick wrote: "If you were sittin' in a cafe, with a bottle of wine, a pack of Galois (optional) and listenin' to someone's life story...who'd you rather have there with you... George Bush jr. (an obvious "winner") ..." -- You misspelled "whiner" there, Rick. Just trying to help Bob Clayton |
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26 Jun 00 - 04:53 PM (#247274) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Bert Please don't criticize grammar and spelling. We accept that you are perfect. |
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26 Jun 00 - 05:27 PM (#247289) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Bill D It's about time you accepted that, Bert. It has a profound effect on my sense of well-being.
(I'll meet you at that restaurant, Kendall, we'll double-team them....some folks seem to think that the answer is, "when in doubt, throw in an apostrophe"...but |
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26 Jun 00 - 05:40 PM (#247300) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Bert Bill (and others) there are several of our Mudcat friends who, for one reason or another, are not too good at spelling and grammar. Continued badgering of these people has driven some of them away. Being good at English is NOT a requirement of visiting Mudcat. Being GOOD to each other is. I love you Bill, but I also love those other guys, so please give 'em a break. Bert. (Who is bad at playing the guitar, sings too many of his own songs, sings sea shanties too fast and makes the odd spelling and grammar mistake) |
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26 Jun 00 - 05:51 PM (#247305) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Jon Freeman I've a feeling there is a little too much tension in the air, maybe we all need to lighten up a little. I have joked here but I doubt that there is anyone who has made more typos, spelling mistakes and grammatical errors than me in Mudcat and nobody has ever had a go at me. Also, as I know how bad I am, I would not have a fo at anyone else... Jon |
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26 Jun 00 - 05:56 PM (#247308) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Bert Jon, It's a sore point with me since I learned that we lost a couple of good friends that way. I also have someone in my family with dyslexia, so I know how embarassing it can be. It shouldn't hurt for us to be nice to each other. Bert. |
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26 Jun 00 - 06:19 PM (#247329) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: wysiwyg I don't think we're losers as much as just FUBAR. Which I am SURE you all know stands for Folked Up Beyond All Rationality. ~S~ |
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26 Jun 00 - 06:26 PM (#247332) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Bill D ...umm... Bert, how can I put this...I really try NOT to 'badger' anyone, and I really think that light-hearted mention of the correct spelling, usage, etc., might actually help those who have the occasional problem. I would certainly NEVER judge a person's worth by their grammar. An old man once told me, "You can call me ignorant, but don't call me dumb...ignorant just means I haven't learned something yet, dumb means I CAN'T learn." I also make mistakes (I thought "We accept that you are perfect." was a joke)..I sing off-key, mispronounce words, and yes, make spelling mistakes...but if I do it over & over, I WANT someone to point out the right way to me. I do not believe the truth to be offensive, and I truly hope I did not offend anyone in the way I tried to make jokes about it...you are absolutely correct, Bert...there is not and should not be any requirement to have a certain skill at English to be a valuble part of Mudcat. I will try to be judicious in my comments, Bert, and you practice the guitar, learn more 'other' songs, and try a few pumping shanties..they are REAL slow.....and pretty soon we can be perfect together!*big silly grin* |
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26 Jun 00 - 09:20 PM (#247417) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: paddymac Well, I'm supportive of Bill D's approach. It doesn't strike me as at all negative, in either intent or a/e-ffect. The problem I see with the US version of the English language is that it is constantly under attack by wordsmiths of uncertain skill more interested in being (or being seen as) clever than in effectively communiting. It's something of a linguistic black hole as it is. No need to speed up its e/de-volution with commercial crap. Let it lie/lay. |
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26 Jun 00 - 09:25 PM (#247421) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Mrrzy Actually, it's Gauloises, but who's counting spelling in tongues, right? Signed, one who is now grateful to the parent's obnoxious (at the time!) habit of correcting me every time I misused who/m or it(')s or ... |
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26 Jun 00 - 10:59 PM (#247465) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: bob jr it seems that alot of folks here wear their folk badge with some strange sense of pride that it automatically makes you a loser unpopular or somehow out in left field as a human then they act as snotty and uptight as some small bank manager in my old hometown i dont get it i just dont get it |
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26 Jun 00 - 11:05 PM (#247468) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Bill D ummm...after what has been said, I guess I'd best refrain from commenting on punctuation |
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26 Jun 00 - 11:14 PM (#247471) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Sorcha If I could speak/write (insert--French, Spanish, Gaelic, etc.) half as well as some of our memebers speak/write Engilsh,I would be one happy lady. I admit that no capitals, all capitals, and consistent mistakes do bother me, but I overlook obvious typos, cut a lot of slack for those whose first language is not English. In fact, I rather enjoy seeing the posts from non-English countries. They are always understood, and Skarpi does a damn sight better in English than I could do in Icelandic. So, let's go for the world community, here. |
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26 Jun 00 - 11:43 PM (#247492) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: BK And, in an easy-going way, we can still help each other learn.. Cheers, BK, who oftens crews up chords, songs, typing, etc, etc.... & likes too many ....... [seems to imitate life....] |
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26 Jun 00 - 11:56 PM (#247497) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: momnopp Mudcatters are some of the most wonderous and lovely people I've ever met. Bert, I think that your points are well taken, but I also think the timbre of this thread is sufficiently light-hearted. It is a wonder we can communicate as well as we do! In the past year or so I've come to understand the two-dimensionality of mere written words. In fact I believe a large part of the reason my sister and I are not on speaking terms is that we started "communicating" almost entirely via e-mail. One of my great joys in life (after singing and laughing) is playing with language. And at the ripe old age of nearly 37, I'm working on modifying my language snobbery so that I can "read between the lines". I am, however, still appalled to receive newsletters with typos in them. And in that vein, dyslexics of the world, UNTIE! Cheers, JudyO PS - Jon Freeman plays a MEAN game of Scrabble, so look out! He does seem to have an affinity for sticky keys on his keyboard, though! ;-) |
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27 Jun 00 - 12:43 AM (#247524) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Racer Language is decided by the collective anyway. If someone is able to convey his or her meaning, then he or she has effectively "mastered" the language. Words are being added, taken away, and/or changed constantly. Try singing "Blow Boys, Blow" at a bar sometime, and you'll know what I'm talking about. Words are just words. They convey meaning though. If the audience understands thier meaning, then I don't see a problem. -Racer |
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27 Jun 00 - 12:44 AM (#247526) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Racer Who really gives a shit about the nuts and bolts of the language any way? -Racer |
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27 Jun 00 - 04:25 AM (#247582) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Like Kendall, I'm one of the "apostrophe police" but only where it is misused in public, or in the so-called academic institution which pays me while I pop into the Mudcat Cafe. I enjoy the postings of fellow Mudcatters too much (and am only too conscious of the many typos and misconceptions in my hasty postings)to worry about their spelling or punctuation. RtS |
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27 Jun 00 - 10:07 AM (#247695) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Kim C Like we say here in the Sunny South ---- Y'all be sweet, now. |
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27 Jun 00 - 10:12 AM (#247699) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Áine My Mudcat Grammar motto: "If you'll cover your own apostrophe, I'll keep my hands off your dangling participle!" *BG* Áine
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27 Jun 00 - 11:32 AM (#247757) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Bert Áine, keep your hands off EVERYTHING that I have dangling;-) Bill, the point is that some people CAN'T learn these things in the same way that we do, and they are not dumb. One of the people that I have in mind is extremely skilled in his own work, in fact he's one of the best in the world. But he's dyslexic and he posts very rarely now because someone jumped all over him for a few spelling mistakes. Every time he sees someone's spelling 'corrected' it just drives him further away. Read this thread to get a feel for the problem. I've been 'practicing' guitar for years but progress is very slow, 'cos I've got a tin ear. And I DID learn Cookoo's Nest because 'someone' requested it, then they weren't tuned in the week that I sang it:-) Ne'mind I'll sing it again for you. One time on Mudcat Radio, we were going to sing every song that we knew, but Max wimped out after a couple of hours. These youngsters have got no stamina. We're probably have to continue to disagree on the tempo of certain shanties. I'm going to claim that they used to sing 'em faster when they got onshore and had a few beers under their belts. And you can exercise your curmudgeonly authority and correct me in the chat room. Bert. |
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27 Jun 00 - 11:40 AM (#247767) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Bagpuss At another website I post at, we used to have a character called Spelling Bee. He was the most despised person there..... Bagpuss (I always blame my spelling mistakes on being a cat typing on keys designed for human fingers) |
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27 Jun 00 - 02:04 PM (#247867) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Rick Fielding Hi Alice. Nope didn't go. I LOVED the responses on the thread, and came to the conclusion that I'd probably not be terribly interested (or interesting) after the first hour. Besides, their big event was a DANCE!!! Well, that's "where I came in". Couldn't dance then...can't now. Didn't wanna learn....still don't. Now a "Reunion for Confused High Schoolers"? Might go to that. Bob jr. You nailed us. Spot on! Love it. Rick |
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27 Jun 00 - 02:26 PM (#247888) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: SeanM Bert, You're assuming that the average group of sailors after a few beers could sing at the same tempo as the person sitting next to'em, let alone at the same tempo as on board ship. I'd think they were singing faster in hopes to just finish around the same time as everyone else -- I've heard much the same thing at a pub after the first several rounds... M |
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27 Jun 00 - 02:33 PM (#247897) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Bert SeanM, ah! good point, of course I doubt if I sing them the same every time. |
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27 Jun 00 - 02:53 PM (#247916) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: GUEST,Peter T. Well, actually, I give a shit about the nuts and bolts of the language -- anyway (meaning more or less, in any case, versus any way, which means in any version or direction), I don't remember any cases where we picked on people for their bad spelling or typos -- it was always picked up as the starting point for a joke, or spinning the thing a bit more. We currently have a marred "married" which is getting the gears. But when it comes down to it, spelling is not crucial unless it messes up what you are trying to say to other people. F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote the greatest American novel, and couldn't spell at all -- he was an unbelievably bad speller, but his thought processes were crystal clear. yours, Peter T. |
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27 Jun 00 - 03:09 PM (#247936) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Jon Freeman My grammar has never been as good as it should be but I agree on the importance of it in some situations. I am sloppy here but one of my jobs involved producing documentation to support the operation of a MRP (type of stock control/ scheduling) system in a factory. Apart from matters of grammar and spelling, I had to write in a particular style, i.e. clear, concise and easy for anybody to understand. I had change my own writing style to be able to do it. Jon |
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28 Jun 00 - 07:14 AM (#248388) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Wolfgang Peter T.: "spelling is not crucial unless it messes up what you are trying to say to other people"
I strongly disagree. I could agree (more or less) if I'd think only of that one function of written language, i.e. to make a thought understandable at the moment when it is read the first time. But here at Mudcat there is one more function to the written word, i.e. it is preserved for rereading at a later time. To that purpose, it has to be refound and that can be extremely hard with wrong spelling. More than just once, I had difficulties recovering a thread or a single post due to spelling errors in thread titles or central words. Mind you, the spelling did not at all interfere with the understanding once I had found the post, but it did with the finding. Wolfgang |
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28 Jun 00 - 08:51 AM (#248424) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Peter T. You are right, Wolfgang. I have enough damn trouble finding songs in Gaelic/English without that additional problem. yours, Peter T. |
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28 Jun 00 - 02:47 PM (#248638) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: The Shambles It seems to be the case that if you are going to make a spelling mistoke, it is bound to be in the thread title. |
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28 Jun 00 - 03:03 PM (#248648) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Áine Dear Lodger, You are so right! But, we just have to grid our lones and smole trough it, don't wee? -- Áine |
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29 Jun 00 - 04:27 AM (#249028) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: GUEST,Airto Is there any evidence that the problems caused by dyslexia and related conditions are worse for English speakers than for, say, Spanish or German speakers? Spelling in English is much more difficult than in many other languages. George Bernard Shaw used to campaign for a complete review of how we spell words in English. One example he used was words ending in ough, such as: through, plough, although, rough, cough, lough, etc. Mind you, the Yanks have already got to work on simplifying some of these spellings. Arthur O'Malley |
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29 Jun 00 - 08:03 AM (#249069) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: GUEST,Hilary in NZ I hope all you people are checking out the Worst New Words in the English Language thread as well. Pedantry Rulz |
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29 Jun 00 - 04:19 PM (#249404) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: SINSULL A local bus company that leases transportation to the city school districts has the following sign painted on its busses: New York City Scholl System My son's teacher says "Spelling doesn't count". In general, I disagree. In the Cafe,I don't care if anyone chooses to correct my spelling, grammar, etc. I choose to ignore most of the errors I see. But marred for married was a classaic Freudian slip. Sorry I wasn't the first to catch it. SS |
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29 Jun 00 - 05:13 PM (#249436) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: The Shambles Very often I copy text from a thread, as a quote to place in my word processor. It is usually something I have read closely many times. It is only at that point, when all the red lines appear, that I notice the incorrect spelling. It obviously does not prevent me from understanding it's meaning. Allowing for language differences, this happens quite often.
My machine wants me to change this before I use it with the new stuff I have written and already corrected.
Should I then correct this spelling, before posting it back to the forum? |
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30 Jun 00 - 05:47 AM (#249695) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: Wolfgang I'd correct it if it's easy (without further comment), i.e. I'd follow the rules of journalism instead of science here. Sometimes, however, I'm too lazy to follow my advice. Wolfgang |
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30 Jun 00 - 02:50 PM (#249936) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: SINSULL Another apology!!! This must be the week for it. I lied. I take great joy in constantly correcting Mbo's spelling (as do others). I have even threatened to get him a dictionary for his graduation. But it's meant as a tease nothing more. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. SS |
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01 Jul 00 - 02:02 PM (#250121) Subject: RE: Mudcatters are losers From: p.j. On the subject of grammar, I refer you to one of my favorite jokes (we're from Atlanta, y'all...) Seems the Southern woman invited her new neighbor over for tea. "So," she says "where y'all from?" Her neighbor answers smugly "Where I'm from we don't end our sentences with prepositions." "Sorry," she replies with a sweet Southern smile. "Where y'all from, bee-yitch?"
:o) *big ol' gree-yan*
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