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13 Jul 00 - 10:27 PM (#257413) Subject: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: bbelle I'd like to know if any of the rest of you guitar players have had problems with arthritis or bursitis in your hands. Here's the scenario … I awoke yesterday morning and noticed that my left wrist hurt a little when I bent it backward and forward. I thought, at the time, that I had slept on it wrong and figured it would get better during the day. By yesterday afternoon, the pain was such that I could barely move my wrist … couldn't pick up or hold anything because of the pain and it felt weak … and had trouble bending my fingers. I tried playing guitar to see if that would loosen it up, but finally had to quit because I couldn't make chords. I took some advil, went to bed, and this morning it felt better, so I assumed it was better. As the day wore on, the pain and weakness grew; couldn't bend my fingers; couldn't pick up anything, etc., etc. Then I noticed a red spot on top of my hand, about the size of a half dollar, swollen and sore. When I pressed the spot, pain radiated back to my wrist and into my fingers. When I got home, I took alleve and started ice packs. Neither has helped so far. I checked to see if there was a "spot" where a spider might have bitten me, but there isn't. I think it's probably bursitis. So … have any of you had this to happen and what did you do? I cannot think of one thing that I've done to my wrist that would have caused this. It's annoying because I'm ambidextrous and do as much with my left hand as with my right. And it's upsetting because I'm supposed to perform tomorrow night and cannot play. HELP!!!! moonchild |
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13 Jul 00 - 10:32 PM (#257414) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Mbo Go to the doctor! This could be serious!
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13 Jul 00 - 10:35 PM (#257415) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: JamesJim Moonchild, I don't want to be an amateur physcian, but... A few years ago, I had a "locked thumb." Woke up and it was locked down. I could pull it up, but it would click as I moved it. When I put it down again, it locked and I had no power to raise it. Turned out that a shot of cortisone cured the problem. I think you should see your doctor and quit guessing. You have too much at stake not to do so. Jim |
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13 Jul 00 - 10:44 PM (#257417) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: kendall long term treatment- Glucosomine |
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13 Jul 00 - 10:46 PM (#257419) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: catspaw49 Additionally Moon, there is a lot of current medical debate over what to take and supplements and all kinds of crap. Carpal Tunnel is often aggravated by bouts of arthritis and cases of CTS have been known to become serious quickly when the arthritis isn't treated. Bottom line....SEE A DOC NOW!!! Love ya'..... Spaw |
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13 Jul 00 - 10:48 PM (#257421) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: kendall My doctor said cortizone doesnt always help, and it makes some people very horny |
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13 Jul 00 - 10:57 PM (#257427) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: bbelle Well, kendall, you are an absolute wealth of advice ... and, believe me when I say that I am most appreciative, however ... horny is not what I need right now. Do you think saltpeter will help it? moonchild |
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13 Jul 00 - 11:12 PM (#257431) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: catspaw49 BTW, glucosomine is one of the supplements currently under debate. Spaw |
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13 Jul 00 - 11:27 PM (#257436) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: GUEST,Jason LaPrade Hi Moonchild, I agree with everyone else, see a doctor as soon as possible. It may not cure you, but it's a good start. I've been having problems with my left hand for about 3 years now, and my right hand for about a year. My problem developed over time by playing too much (more than I was used to, anyway). I can relate to not being able to play. Was there any warning that something was wrong? It sounds like it happened suddenly for you. I would guess it's not arthritis, although I'm no doctor. Arthritis would probably come about gradually. Bursitis is possible but I wouldn't worry too much. Something as simple as a sprain can cause all kinds of strange things to happen. A lot of times, things like that come and go and there is really nothing to worry about. The problem could be anywhere -- your hand, arm, neck, back, hips. Have you had any pains developing lately? A pinched nerve is also possible. There are a few things I could suggest from my own experience that might help alleviate the symptoms, but I'd get it checked out first. I wouldn't want to mislead you by giving bad advice when I don't even know what the problem is. One thing I'll stress: IF IT HURTS TO PLAY -- DON'T! You may cause more serious damage. Cancelling the gig would be a good idea in my opinion. Take it easy, Jason |
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13 Jul 00 - 11:35 PM (#257438) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: katlaughing Jenny, you might find some more stuff on this thread, too: Cortisone for tendonitis I agree, though, best to see a doctor to make sure. Also, a good massage therapist can work wonders when things apparently get gummed up that way. Feel better, kat
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13 Jul 00 - 11:44 PM (#257443) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Jason LaPrade I tried glucosomine for awhile, probably not long enough to see a difference. I stopped because of all the reports I heard about it damaging the stomach. My instincts also told me to stop. If you're interested in supplements, you might want to try ginger. Used for centuries ... ie, forever ... it's good for your overall health. I've heard that it's suppose to be good for pain as well. From my own experience, it's great for an upset stomach. Hopefully it'll help my hand pain as well. You can get ginger as a supplement but I'd suggest buying the ginger root. Eat it raw or put it into a cup of boiling water. If you grate it, it's very easy to eat the pieces while you drink it. On the other hand, I've heard of studies that reported dried ginger capsules as being the most effective for pain relief. I think I'll try it myself. Jason. |
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14 Jul 00 - 12:00 AM (#257448) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: alison keep going with the ice... and get yourself to a doc.. but also to a sports injury specialist... they treat a lot of musicians who get RSI from the way they hold their instruments........ and they're not as likely to fill you with cortisone as a doctor is...... slainte alison |
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14 Jul 00 - 12:28 AM (#257459) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Marymac90 Dear Moonbaby, I have had a little Carpal Tunnell since I started messing around on a computer. Then one day in Feb, all of a sudden, I had a BAD pain in my wrist. My doc said it was Tendonitis, and reccommended a wrist brace. It worked! I bought them in different types, for each wrist, cause they're helpful for the Carpal Tunnell, too. If you have any tendency toward that, it is important to pay attention to how your wrists are bending when you sleep. I was sleeping in the braces until I worked out a position where my wrists would stay straight. I've made it so much of a habit, I think my sleeping mind now works on keeping them straight, too. I also have arthritis and torn cartilage in my knee. Glucosamine chondroitin really helped when that was giving me some pain. Bursitis is an inflammation. I've had that in my knee too-it swells like there's a little sac of water in there. Inflammations are helped by drugs in the aspirin family, like Ibuprofen, because they're anti-inflammatory. I sure hope you're feeling better soon. Love, Marymac
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14 Jul 00 - 12:28 AM (#257460) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: bbelle kat ... I went back and reread that thread ... thanks. I did the glucosamine treatment for arthritis in my hip and lower back and it did help and I don't have to take it now. I'm not going to do the cortisone thing. I had to prednisone after back surgery and it was an experience I do not even talk about. Enough said. I'm doing Alleve and ice ... ziplock bags and icemakers are wonderful. I will call my doctor in the AM. Hopefully, she can work me in and will have a magic cure. Now, the underneath of the wrist is painful to the touch and hot. I still have no clue what is causing it. At least I can type, if I don't have to move the wrist very much. Thanks, all. moonchild |
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14 Jul 00 - 01:07 AM (#257469) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: katlaughing Glad it was of interest, Jenny. Look into trying the braces that Mary mentions, too. Whenever I haven't kept my wrist exercises up, with weights, and they get sore, I always put on the braces and it clears right up. They immobilise and keep the wrist in the proper position. mary, I laughed when I read what you said about your sleeping mind doing the work. I keep one of those wheat husk pillows, small sized, in the bed, and fluff it around all hours of the night, to place my wrist just so on it, for that very purpose. LOL!! Good luck, Moonchild. luvyakat |
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14 Jul 00 - 02:52 AM (#257491) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: sledge Make an appoitment to see your Doctor as soon as possible and do not try any over the counter methods. Your Doctor has to find the ROOT of the problem first. In the mean time keep the use of that hand to a minimum. If you have one put it in a simple sling and elevate it. Ice packs will help. For pain relief any generic Ibuprofen based beastie should help, they will also help in reducing any inflammation. Take it easy Sledge |
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14 Jul 00 - 07:24 AM (#257515) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: kendall Glucosomine takes about two months to even START to work. Some time back I had a painful knee. My neighbor talked me into using his magnet bandage, and I did. Never expected it to work, but, it did. Pain was gone in 2 days. I was wearing it on the outside, walked into a store, and a woman I dont know said "Oh what did you do to your knee?" I said "My wife and I were doing it dog style, and she ran up under the porch." I thought she would be offended but she wet herself. |
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14 Jul 00 - 07:47 AM (#257521) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Sean Belt Moonchild, I'm currently going through a similar situation. With me, it's my shoulder. I can play the banjo and dulcimer with little pain. But reaching around the body of my guitar was killing me. I couldn't play it at all for a couple of months, which was depressing me terribly. I finally went to a physical therapist and was able to work with her to find a posture in which I can play comfortably. A cortizone shot has also helped quite a bit. Here in St. Louis, we're blessed with a group of PTs and doctors who are specialized in treating musicians and dancers So, for now, I have to play standing up and with the guitar riding a little lower than I'm used to, but all in all, it's not affected my playing negatively and I'm getting more and more comfortable with it. I'm in agreement with most of the others above, though. Whether it's a PT or Orthopedist or whomever, don't wait to get professional help with this. Bread & roses, - Sean |
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14 Jul 00 - 09:09 AM (#257543) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: catspaw49 I dunno' Kendall.........But I guess I do kinda' believe in that "Power of Magnets" stuff. Awhile back I bought one of them bracelets with the magnets AND copper, which was also recommended, at a local pharmacy. I put it on right away and headed for my car. As I was waiting at a crosswalk, I looked down and noticed my wrist had already turned green. As I held it out for closer inspection, the magnetic field must have been really strong because I was lifted off my feet and clanked onto the exhaust stack of a passing Kenworth. We went about 3 miles before the driver pulled over and prised me off with a tire iron. I had some nasty burns on my wrist, but evidently the heat must have penetrated real deep 'cause the arthitis pain was gone. So I guess the magnets DO work. Spaw |
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14 Jul 00 - 09:15 AM (#257544) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: wysiwyg Shoulders and elbows for me, and heat is the clue to tendonitis. There is a surgery for carpal tunnel syndrome where they emlarge the tunnel so the tendon has more room. It still will swell and get inflamed when overused, but not pinch in the space where it runs, in that tunnel. A parishioner of ours had it, with excellent result. It's hard to ice where the problem is with carpal tunnel because it is inside the tunnel. With my tendonitis, it always seems to help to take anti-inflammatories before it gets too bad, and to switch between types every few weeks. The most effective ones are by prescription, though. There is also a possibility of that old bugaboo, gout, which can move in anywhere there has been stress, and which is realted to uric acid, not high living and dissipation. It would actually be good if it IS gout,m because the neds for this are fanbulaous. Hardiman has this in his feet from sytanding so much at church, and it is amazing how the meds work. There are the inflammation reducing ones but also the ones that adress the uric acid directly. Good luck. Meantime, try what I do-- when it is really bad, I play something else, or just sing. Good time to work on new songs. Also-- be very aware that long-term inflammatory conditions can seriously deplete adrenals, making everything else go completely out of whack. For a long time and a tough recovery. Something I am fast becomeing an expert on, due to job and other stress and physical problems. If this is a factor, and it could easily be if you had a course of treatment with cortisone or prednisone, I have a lot I could share with you, and if interested please send me a PM. ~Susan |
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14 Jul 00 - 09:26 AM (#257552) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: SINSULL Damn Kendall. I'm at the office and made a rather loud and raucous sound upon reading your post. I am glad you are feeling better but give us a warning - OK?
Moonchild, Consider stress as a possible cause for the problem. Not "my hand hurts so I don't have to perform" psycho-babble. But if you are tense, you may be putting stress on your wrist even while playing an instrument and causing an irritation.
Hope you feel better. Also - thanks for the spider bite mention. I get horrible reactions to simple house spider bites. Once I was even diagnosed with terminal cancer only to find out it was a simple allergic reaction to a spider bite.My friends laugh at me but in summer it's a constant problem. |
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14 Jul 00 - 09:49 AM (#257569) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: bbelle Ok ... I kept it immobilized last night and the pain was better this AM ... but showering, doing hair, and dressing with one hand is comical, at best. At this time, I have slathered Icy/Hot on both sides of wrists and top of hand and have a good wrist splint on. Both of these are helping. I'm calling my doc today. BTW ... I think I've figured out what has caused this ... I'm working on some new songs and doing some difficult (for me with my small hands) chord manipulations. I've been practicing for hours on end and I think herein lies the culprit. So ... Rick, my dear friend, it's all your fault!!!!! My F chord sounds great and the Bb is sounding pretty damn good, too. moonchild |
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14 Jul 00 - 10:35 AM (#257589) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Kim C Kendall! You did not say that!!!!! I am absolutely in tears!!!!! Believe me I REALLY NEEDED that laugh today. Ohmagawd. I had bursitis in my knee once from trying to learn Irish step dancing. It hurt like hell and I could hardly move. I did learn the dance, though! What happens with bursitis is something like the fluid sacs in the joints get inflamed and swollen from overuse or unfamiliar use ---- so it would seem like strange wrist manipulations could do it. Mister said, if that's not better by Monday, you're going to the doctor.... magically, it did get better by Monday. I didn't need immediate assistance, though, or I would have gone. |
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14 Jul 00 - 11:00 AM (#257603) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Jeri When it comes to something that could lead to long-term difficulties - see your doctor. (Yeah, I know you're already going, but I wanted to get my vote in.) Treating yourself may work, or it may only alleviate your current symptoms and allow the problem to get worse. Forcefully bending the wrist is what causes tendonitis which can lead to carpal tunnel syndrome. In the long run, it would be a good idea to work out a way to play with your wrist as straight as possible, and minimise movement. Try moving the neck and your arm around so you get a better angle, and try to hold the guitar stable with your body and right arm if you can. The pressure on your left thumb can be a problem. Wrist braces mainly serve to let you know when you're bending your wrist. They won't really prevent you from doing it, and worn all the time can cause their own problems. (Loss of some muscle strength and irritation). Most doctors who are up on current therapies will not recommend they be worn all the time. As far as cortisone injections - no, it's a Bad Thing to get repeated shots. One shot to nip the inflammation in the bud is another thing. I have a screwed up shoulder (impinged acromium clavicular joint) and went to the doc when the pain first flared up. I got one cortisone shot, which almost immediately alleviated a lot of the pain. Within a couple of days my shoulder was nearly back to normal. I noticed no side effects. The inflammation alone in a joint can cause damage. There is a bit of information here |
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14 Jul 00 - 11:07 AM (#257611) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: wysiwyg JERI-- !!!!!!!W****O****W!!!!!!! Thanks!!!!! ~S~ |
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14 Jul 00 - 12:00 PM (#257651) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Bert Them fancy chords will do it to you every time. That's why I stick to A, E7 & D. So lay off the B flats and C#aug19thsdim47ths and dig out your capo for that gig. And 'stop practicing' when it hurts. Limit yourself to 'ten minute' practice sessions. Oh! and lay off the coffee for a while 'cos that stimulates your nerve endings. Luvya, get better soon. Bert. |
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14 Jul 00 - 02:06 PM (#257717) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Whistle Stop Like everyone else, I recommend that you see a doctor. I had a very bad problem a few years ago with carpal tunnel syndrome. Saw a doctor, who prescribed a wrist brace and gave me a bunch of information about CTS and the various medical approaches to dealing with it. Surgery is an option, but it can do some damage and won't necessarily completely fix the problem. Mainly, if you're going to do it, you need to combine it with some behavior modification to avoid re-creating the problem after surgery. In my case I got past this problem primarily by analyzing my playing and making some changes. At the time I was playing out 4-6 times a month with a rock and roll band, playing electric lead guitar. I slung it kind of low because that's how my right hand liked it, but I didn't realize that it was giving me problems in my left, because I had to bend the wrist at almost a 90 degree angle to situate my fingers over the strings (being a classical guitarist originally, I'm not one of those "thumb over the top" guys). Constantly working my fingers with my wrist in such a contorted position was primarily what caused my problem. The solution was to shorten my strap (elevating the neck and allowing me to straighten out my wrist), and get back to a more ergonomically correct playing posture. All that classical guitar emphasis on hand positions exists for a reason! The problem began to fade when I made this change. As you might expect, once something is aggravated (like the tendons that run through the carpal tunnel) to the point where it starts to get inflamed, there are a lot of things that can keep it aggravated. Sleeping with your wrists cocked forward is an aggravating factor -- the doctor I saw told me that this is very common for some reason. I got into the habit of deliberatly laying my wrists out straight when I went to bed, and even when I was asleep there was a part of my brain that stayed conscious and reminded me not to cock my wrists. Other everyday things -- typing, driving, etc. -- can also aggravate this type of injury. If you're conscious of these things, you will start to notice what you're doing, and take steps to correct them -- adjust your grip on the steering wheel, relax your wrists when you type, etc. I don't know if any of this actually applies to your situation or not, but figured I'd pass my experiences along. Good luck. |
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14 Jul 00 - 02:06 PM (#257718) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Whistle Stop Like everyone else, I recommend that you see a doctor. I had a very bad problem a few years ago with carpal tunnel syndrome. Saw a doctor, who prescribed a wrist brace and gave me a bunch of information about CTS and the various medical approaches to dealing with it. Surgery is an option, but it can do some damage and won't necessarily completely fix the problem. Mainly, if you're going to do it, you need to combine it with some behavior modification to avoid re-creating the problem after surgery. In my case I got past this problem primarily by analyzing my playing and making some changes. At the time I was playing out 4-6 times a month with a rock and roll band, playing electric lead guitar. I slung it kind of low because that's how my right hand liked it, but I didn't realize that it was giving me problems in my left, because I had to bend the wrist at almost a 90 degree angle to situate my fingers over the strings (being a classical guitarist originally, I'm not one of those "thumb over the top" guys). Constantly working my fingers with my wrist in such a contorted position was primarily what caused my problem. The solution was to shorten my strap (elevating the neck and allowing me to straighten out my wrist), and get back to a more ergonomically correct playing posture. All that classical guitar emphasis on hand positions exists for a reason! The problem began to fade when I made this change. As you might expect, once something is aggravated (like the tendons that run through the carpal tunnel) to the point where it starts to get inflamed, there are a lot of things that can keep it aggravated. Sleeping with your wrists cocked forward is an aggravating factor -- the doctor I saw told me that this is very common for some reason. I got into the habit of deliberatly laying my wrists out straight when I went to bed, and even when I was asleep there was a part of my brain that stayed conscious and reminded me not to cock my wrists. Other everyday things -- typing, driving, etc. -- can also aggravate this type of injury. If you're conscious of these things, you will start to notice what you're doing, and take steps to correct them -- adjust your grip on the steering wheel, relax your wrists when you type, etc. I don't know if any of this actually applies to your situation or not, but figured I'd pass my experiences along. Good luck. |
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14 Jul 00 - 08:42 PM (#257892) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: SINSULL How are you, Moonchild? |
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14 Jul 00 - 10:05 PM (#257929) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: bbelle Sinsull ... thank you for asking. The wrist seems better tonight. Made a trip to doc ... problem is tendonitis ... a better diagnosis, I think, than carpel tunnel or bursitis. I elected to take a more conservative route on the road to healing ... immobilization and anti-imflammatories. The Icy/Hot, while not my favorite eau d'parfum, feels REAL good when I slather it on. The swelling is much better and I can move my fingers. Still don't have full use of hand, but doc says if I keep it "quiet" as much as possible, limit practice time, and take care of myself ... I'll be "good as new in no time." I explained to doc what I think caused the tendonitis and she was in agreement. She suggested concentrating on pulling strength from my upper arm and shoulder, both of which are more muscular and built for strength, instead of my wrist. Now, that made perfect sense. Duh! I was lucky because this doc has worked with several musicians having the same instrument-playing-related problems. So, tonight, I will rest easier, knowing that my condition is "curable" and not permanent. moonchild |
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14 Jul 00 - 10:17 PM (#257937) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: sophocleese Good to hear moonchild. |
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15 Jul 00 - 02:41 AM (#258009) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: GUEST,Banjo Johnny Icy Hot, great. How much did the good doctor charge you for that learned wisdom? You got better advice from the Mudcats. == Johnny in OKC |
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15 Jul 00 - 02:53 AM (#258011) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: bbelle The cost of the doctor was negligible, when it comes to my hands. If you reread my post, I state very plainly that I chose a conservative method of treatment. And, the ICY/HOT is my choice. And I did take the advice of my friends, which was to (1) see a doctor; (2) immobilize my wrist; (3) use some type of salve for the pain. Had I not been prepared to listen and take the advice of friends, I wouldn't have posted my dilemna. moonchild |
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15 Jul 00 - 02:55 AM (#258012) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Callie I used to get tendonitis all the time as a teenager. The presciption ranged from strapping up my arm to anti-inflammatories. I discovered my own cure. I went from playing a classical nylon String guitar with a wide neck to a steel string. Tendonitis gone. Came back a little while ago when I got a gig playing Spanish-style guitar and had to use the nylon string again. (Especially those barre chords!). It felt kind of weird having that old problem come back after years. Unfortunately, I have to live with the fact that I am not able to play classical guitar. At least the steel string has no bad effects. I took lessons in jazz improv for a while. We had a fantastic teacher who taught us very little about what notes to play but loads of other things: the Alexander technique; holding the instrument; frame of mind; practice time. At first I thought it was all a bit hippy-peace-and-love, but it HAS improved my musicality and outlook. I'd recommend Alexander technique to muso. Hope you're feeling better soon. Callie |
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15 Jul 00 - 12:10 PM (#258154) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: GUEST Lyme's disease can cause a lot of pain in the joints. If you have been around an area or pet where you may have picked up a tick. A round red spot can be an indication that you have been bitten by a tick. It can be rather hard to diagnose without a blood test. Cap't Bob |
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15 Jul 00 - 12:33 PM (#258165) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Jason LaPrade Hi Moonchild, I'm glad to hear you went to the Doctor. More importantly, I'm glad you found the root of the problem. Learning new chords can be very difficult because you're not used to them (duh! Obviously) -- bar chords can be the worst since they usually put your wrist at a very awkward angle. Your hand and arm will have much more strength if your wrist is as straight as possible. Be careful that this thought doesn't cause you to tighten up, though. Try and relax as much as possible when playing, using only enough pressure to push down the strings. You can get used to this by using the following exercise: 1. Push a string down as hard as possible and play a note 2. Barely touch a string and play the muted note 3. Experiment in between these two extremes to find just the right amount of pressure needed to get a clear sounding note. Many people use far more pressure than necessary Also (and this may be my main problem), breathe! Every once in a while notice what you're doing with your breath. If it's not smooth and relaxed you may be holding too much tension. And if you play in that state, you will fatigue much quicker. Unfortunately I haven't been able to relax my breathing yet. I still find I hold it too much (especially when I play a difficult part). I'm working at just strumming simple chords while focusing solely on my breathing. Hopefully it'll get easier for me. I even find this when I'm away from the instrument. If anyone else has any ideas on how to relax while playing, and in particular how to relax the breath while playing, I'd love to hear them. Thanks. One word of caution, Moonchild: be careful with the anti-inflammatories. If you cover up the pain, remember that the problem isn't necessarily gone. You could end up hurting yourself more and not even know it. I was given some originally that I never used (Actually I just threw them out because they were past the due date). I decided not to take because of all the side effects. I actually got two prescriptions, one for the pain, the other to counteract the side effects. And the 2nd one had it's own problems too. I'm curious if you've noticed anything from taking them, besides less pain? Goodluck to us all, Jason |
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15 Jul 00 - 12:49 PM (#258174) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: bbelle Jason ... Another part of the equation here is that, although I've played guitar for 35 years, I've never considered myself a "guitar player," but a singer. So, my playing habits are old, very old. For the past year, I've had more interest in the guitar-end of my performing and have read and listened and picked the brains of people I consider "good." Some days is like learning to play all over again!!! My double curse is that I was born with very small hands and the family arthritis gene. I've been using anti-imflammatories for years to ease the pain of the arthritis. I don't take mega-doses, but I do take them everyday, to keep the pain and stuffness, at bay. What I did with the tendonitis is change my anti-imflammatory from ibuprophen to naproxen sodium (alleve or generic). I will take this until the wrist is healed. The ibuprophen didn't help the tendonitis, but it does help the arthritis. I have to take a couple of prescribed medications for other things, but I try to not take them for situations like this because they are much stronger and the chance of side effects is far greater. BTW ... I am typing this with almost no pain and I was able to shower properly!!! I am still going to keep it immobilized as much as possible and will keep applying the salve because it really feels good. I'm going to try to practice a little tonight, but for just about 10 minutes. I am not going to overdo it, but got to keep those calluses from going soft and my fingers limber. This response to my plea and the advice offered has been awesome and I thank all of you. Where else, but the mudcat cafe. Does that sound sappy? Okay ... I'm allowed! moonchild |
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15 Jul 00 - 12:59 PM (#258181) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Bagpuss Relaxing your breathing while playing guitar? I find singing works every time! Moon child, I have been playing guitar about15 years, and like you I dont consider myself a guitar player really, but a singer. I only really play guitar so I can accompany myself singing. maybe thats why I never progressed past the "ok, but not great" stage in my playing. I dont have the patience with the guitar that I do with singing. Besides, if my guitar playing is bad, it makes my singing sound better....doesn't it...? Bagpuss |
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15 Jul 00 - 01:03 PM (#258185) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: catspaw49 Hell Moon, you should have mentioned you were having trouble showering..........I'm kinda' tied up at the moment but Cletus is out on the road with Paw and the Reg boys and their portable pottie business ("Crappers 'R Us") and they'd be happy to help out I know. Spaw |
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15 Jul 00 - 01:19 PM (#258193) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: bbelle 'spaw ... tied up? Hey! ... that's my speciality! LOL
Send the boys my way ... I've got lots of room, now, and I could use the helping hands. Plus, I'm a little woman so my shower is big enough for all of us.
I'm going to try the breathing thing while doing my little bit of practicing tonight. I've discovered that "breathing" helps almost any situation. Having to "come up for breath" is nice, too.
moonchild |
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15 Jul 00 - 02:02 PM (#258210) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: PJ Hall Moonchild, Just to add my two-bits, I am a professional drummer, (bodhran) this drum is played with a very unhealthy wrist action. I developed tendonitis years ago from computer work and so I have to make sure both wrists are very protected when I play. Glucosamine is only going to help if you have arthritis. I stress, DO NOT PLAY IF YOU FEEL PAIN!! I used to have an amazing guitarist in my band who suffers from bursitis/tendonitis in her hand and wrist. She was playing non-stop, (teaching and gigs). She would show up at rehearsal in pain and I would make her stop playing. She did not believe that she couldn't "play" through the pain (what is it about musicians??) She is now retired from playing... very sad and such a waste. She had physio, and had seen a doctor, was taking anti-infammatories to deal with the pain, but she didn't behave and stop playing if she felt pain. If you heed the advice of your doctor, get some good physio, and do what you're told... you will play for years. Take it from someone who knows first hand. If you have to stop playing for awhile, DO SO!!! Get work where you don't have to use the wrists. As far as good physio, phone your local musicians union and get some names from them of people who work with musicians and know that "retirement" is not an option. If they don't know of anyone, phone the nearest philharmonic office, or professional body of musicians that you can think of. (even a university might know of someone) You are not alone this is a very common problem with people who play for a living. |
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15 Jul 00 - 08:23 PM (#258368) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Mbo That's weird, Callie! I been playing Classical guitar for 6 years now, and switch between it and steel string (and fiddle, pipe chanter and recorder) and don't problems at all. Very strange...very very very strange.... --Mbo (oh no!) |
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15 Jul 00 - 08:38 PM (#258372) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: catspaw49 Meebo.....Think about it just a moment. Do you have the same size/shape fingers as Callie? How about hand size and shape? What is the distance from wrist to fingertip? Elbow to fingertip? All wrist joints are not created equal. Finger flexibility is not the same for everyone. Classicals have wide flat fretboards. Most steel string are radiused. Nothing strange about it at all. Spaw |
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15 Jul 00 - 10:08 PM (#258397) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: GUEST,Joerg Congratulations for your doctor, MC. Not long ago I had some difficulties with my throat. I had been sick before, also seriously, but let me tell you that this was the first time in my life I really SUFFERED. Saw my doctor. To save his honour (see below) I should say that he first (insert the proper word in english) some medicine before sending me to a "specialist". This one turned out to be a very small, very young girl assisted by somebody I suspect to having been her mother. She used both hands and a BIG club for driving my tongue down, exactly onto the spot that hurt me most, and while I was wiping the tears from my eyes she told me, that my throat should be amputated at once. I refused - fortunately that's one of the human rights granted in Germany. Then I talked her into giving me something to simply ease the pain. When I returned to my own doctor afterwards he really dared to say: "Oh, I thought that she would put you to the hospital at once." That @&$§#% coward. I'm well again. So, MC, I think I can understand the reasons you might have had for first asking here instead of asking some doctor. Shame to those of them who consider you something like a sheet of paper they can quickly get off their desks. My own experience is (also?): If something hurts you - first try to leave it in peace in order to let it get well by itself (provided you are not going to die of the pain in the meantime). And if you see your doctor - try to find some way (or some doctor) to ask him without having to submit to him. So if something like that happens to you again I would be pleased to first help you showering properly and then immobilising ....................... back from my own shower (Spaw, do you know some way to share your nitro tablets on the net?) Love Joerg |
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15 Jul 00 - 11:31 PM (#258439) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: bbelle Joerg ... that's cute ... thanks for the giggle. And for the advice and good thoughts. moonchild |
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16 Jul 00 - 02:06 AM (#258527) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Callie I was GOING to put in a 'PS' to my thread, and didn't. Here it is now: PS: I know that for some folk, namely Mbo and Rick, barre chords are not a problem. In fact they THRIVE on playing "F" and "Bb". I envy their handspan and tendon action, and I know Mbo is going to respond to my thread by saying "but how could barre chords hurt ANYONE's hands?? They're SO EASY!!" :) Callie |
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16 Jul 00 - 02:10 AM (#258529) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: bbelle Callie ... I cannot play barre chords. My hands are too small. Once someone has seen my hands, the issue never comes up again. It would be nice ... but g-d had other plans for me, which did not include barre chords. So, don't worry about it. moonchild |
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16 Jul 00 - 04:54 AM (#258553) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Callie Oh, it's ok - no fury here! The subject of barre chords has come up on other threads and Mbo and Rick have made us all laugh and puke with their love of certain impossible chords! |
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16 Jul 00 - 04:54 AM (#258554) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Jason LaPrade Moonchild, don't worry about your small hands and not being able to play barre chords. Like a few people have mentioned, they can be very tough on even big hands. Callie, Rick Fielding often uses his thumb to play bar chords. For example, he'll rap his thumb around the top of the neck to get the F base note while fingering an F chord. In this way, the only bar is with the first finger over the two high strings. If you can get your thumb around the top it may be very useful. Be careful though, Rick has done this for years. Another example: if you need a Bm, you can finger the chord but leave out the high string. This way your first finger only gets the B bass note as opposed to both the B and F# on the high E string. Takes away from the fullness but makes things easier. Another way is to only play the high string with your first finger and leave out the bass note. (note: the F chord can be played without the bass note as well. Or something else to try -- F major 7 -- play the F chord along with the high open E string if it suits a particular song). Of course you can avoid the F all together. A capo is a wonderful thing, eh. It can make bad musicians good (or at least tolerable) and good musicians even better. :>) Jason. |
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16 Jul 00 - 09:24 AM (#258604) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: bbelle I have to say that the tendonitis was worth the pain, etc., because my F chord is sounding pretty damn good, if I do say so myself. Also, Rick "showed" me how to do a Bb without having to barre. You have to be really fast to fit this in ... in Open C ... take your F chord down to the 6th fret. Like I say, you gotta be fast because it's a ways to "travel" down and back. moonchild |
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16 Jul 00 - 03:08 PM (#258715) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: wysiwyg Moonchild, I was always told that carpal tunnel is a form of tendonitis.... does this mean that there was some other tendon involved, and if so can you share which one? ~S~ |
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16 Jul 00 - 03:19 PM (#258724) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: bbelle Susan ... my doc didn't say anything about it being a precursor to carpal tunnel. She did say that it was the tendons on the top of my hand that were inflamed and that was what was affecting my wrist and my fingers. It much better today. I will continue using the brace during the day, some, and at night, for quite a while, because I'm afraid of inadvertently doing something to make it flare up or that I will sleep on my hand "wrong." moonchild |
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16 Jul 00 - 03:46 PM (#258742) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Bagpuss I have little hands too, but I can play E shape barre chords, but not A shape ones (well not very well anyway). I'm a great fan of the capo too - transposing from F to D is almost second nature to me now. Another caution about repeated cortisone treatments: my mum almost died a few years back because of Addison's disease. Its extremely rare, but one of the causes is thought to be previous treatment with corticosteroids. Bagpuss |
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16 Jul 00 - 03:51 PM (#258747) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: bbelle It looks like we have a coalition of "anti-cortisone" mudcatters. It's truly nice to find something we all agree on. moonchild |
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16 Jul 00 - 04:17 PM (#258762) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Jeri Susan, try clicking on the link I posted up at the top. There's a lot of good information, even if the wording is a bit hypersyllabic. (Is that a word?) Tendinitis in the wrist can lead to carpal tunnel syndrome if it goes untreated and continues/recurs over a period of time. It's like the difference between a sunburn and skin cancer. The "carpal tunnel" is a passage of bone through which the tendons in the wrist (and the median nerve) pass. If it becomes smaller (because of inflamation, arthritis, whatever) it can cause carpal tunnel syndrome, smptoms of which normally occur in the hands (because of nerve damage) - not the wrist. |
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16 Jul 00 - 04:18 PM (#258763) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Sorcha i think one problem with cortisone, or any steriod is that once you start, and it helps, you tend to do it again. After a while, somehow the body needs it to function and it is hard to stop. Not a true addiction, but something similar. Also, all of the side effects are not fun.......bone deterioration, etc. Also, Ibuprophen, taken in doses of 800mg or more regularly can cause spontaneous bruising, as well as stomach bleeding like other anit-inflams. |
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16 Jul 00 - 04:38 PM (#258772) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: wysiwyg OK, got it now. ~S~ |
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17 Jul 00 - 11:53 AM (#259241) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Jason LaPrade Hi Bagpuss, I know this probably isn't the best thread for this, but I have an idea that might help your A chord. I know of 3 ways to play an open A chord. 1. 1st finger on 4th string, 2nd finger on 3rd string, 3rd finger on 2nd string (all second fret of course) This seemed to be the most common way when I was learning the A chord but I had trouble with it. My fingers naturally went to a different way: 2. 1st finger on 3rd string, 2nd finger on 4th string, 3rd finger on 2nd string. (feels much more natural to me but I still get funny looks sometimes from someone familiar with the other way) And another way I often play it: 3. 1st finger bar on 4th, 3rd and 2nd strings (mute high E string) This method opens up lots of opportunities for melody notes. Something similar can be done with the D chord. 4. One last option - playing an A7 chord using only two fingers may make it easier. (i.e., play the open 3rd(G) string) Maybe this will help Jason. |
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17 Jul 00 - 11:59 AM (#259242) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Bagpuss Jason, I have no trouble with A, its barred chords using the A-shape (like B, Bb etc) that I have trouble with. Bagpuss |
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18 Jul 00 - 08:11 AM (#259888) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Whistle Stop Jason, I play an A chord just as you describe in your example #2 -- first finger on the third string, second finger on the fourth, third finger on the second string. I get funny looks too, but I find that it works much better, and allows my left hand to stay in a more natural position that the more common fingering does. |
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18 Jul 00 - 10:11 AM (#259965) Subject: RE: BURSITIS ... CANNOT PLAY ... HELP! From: Jason LaPrade Sorry Bagpuss, I misread your post. Anyway I hope it helped someone else. If it helped no one, I'll turn it into another point related to this thread: -- Find the easiest way to play things. If you can find a way that works better for you than the norm, do it. This will help avoid some of the physical problems musicians can come up with. By looking for the easiest way of doing things (not just playing an instrument, by the way) you'll become more aware of what your body feels. Something that probably should be obvious, that I still haven't learned to do. Seems like there's too much going on to notice these things. Jason. |