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25 Jul 00 - 07:21 PM (#264602) Subject: Serious Eco-damage From: Mooh > Brazilian congress is now voting on a project that will reduce the Amazon > forest to 50% of its size. The area to be deforested is 4 times the size of > Portugal and would be mainly used for agriculture and pastures for livestock. > All the wood is to be sold on the international markets in the form of wood > chips, by multinational companies. > The truth is that the soil in the Amazon forest is useless without the > forest itself. Its quality is very acidic and the region is prone to > constant floods. At this time more than 160 000 square kilmetres, > deforested with the same purpose, are abandoned and in the process of > becoming desert. > We cannot let this happen. This was sent to me by a guitar building friend. Comment? Peace, Mooh. |
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25 Jul 00 - 07:24 PM (#264605) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: Sorcha So, how do we (whoever we are) stop it? Anybody to write to, etc? |
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25 Jul 00 - 07:24 PM (#264606) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: kendall We cant even stop people from building homes in the flood plains of this country. Ignorance knows no boundry. |
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25 Jul 00 - 07:33 PM (#264610) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: catspaw49 Anyone familiar with instruments knows that there are projects underway by instrument manufacturers to stop the usage of "endangered" woods from the rainforests. All laudable. However, after raping and pillaging our own country's natural resources, its a bit hypocritical isn't it? The Brazilians are using what they have to enhance their economy. What they are doing to the ecology of the planet may be reprehensible, but I think they look at it as --- Hey! You did it. We want ours too. Butt out!! If that is indeed their reasoning, which I believe it is, then we have a really tough job changing their minds. Probably won't happen. Spaw |
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25 Jul 00 - 07:44 PM (#264617) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: Lonesome EJ Until 10 or 20 years ago, mahogany was a rare and valued wood, used in the finest of furniture. Now, with the rampant destruction of rainforests around the world, everything is being made from it- wheelbarrow handles and frame,lawn furniture, any application where wood is desirable but the price of the item must be kept to a minimum. But one thing has remained the same...mahogany comes from far away places, and so we do not see the clear-cutting that is destroying forests in the Far East, South America and Africa. But we can hold the evidence in our hands everyday at KMart, Homebase and Pier 1. |
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25 Jul 00 - 07:47 PM (#264621) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: SeanM Not to diminish the VERY real damage being done to the rain forest, but this particular point is mostly urban legend. Details are at www.snopes.com... Summary is that this was tried earlier in the year, but was shelved. It's not happening now, but there's no reason to believe it won't be tried again. M |
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25 Jul 00 - 07:51 PM (#264623) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: catspaw49 The problem though Sean is quite real and every instument maker is aware of how the prices have skyrocketed and the scarcity has increased. We are still seeing the daily destruction of large areas of rainforest in Brazil and other areas around the world by countries that hope to capitalize on their own natural resources. Spaw |
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25 Jul 00 - 08:42 PM (#264651) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: SeanM As I noted, I never meant to deny that there's been real damage done to the rain forests... merely to note that the vote to reduce the rainforest to %50 percent is a shelved notion that didn't make it to vote in the Brazilian legislature... With so much of a real problem there, I'd just rather people knew the real stats... M |
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26 Jul 00 - 05:17 AM (#264851) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: Escamillo Before seeing SeanM's post, I was going to compulsively post that this is YET ANOTHER HOAX. The intentions of the authors of all these false alarms (remember that boy hurt by a needle in McDonald's ball pit ?) is to generate a waterfall of mails carrying thousands of legitimate e-mail addresses to the avid mouths of the spammers and merchants of e-mail lists. Please transmit this to your friend, Mooh. Hoaxes appart, the problem of soberanity and over-exploitation of natural resources is tough and deserves all our efforts. Un abrazo - Andrés
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26 Jul 00 - 07:59 AM (#264880) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: Mooh I'll spread the word. However, the issue of forest destruction is very real worldwide. I'd like to continue the discussion, whether or not my original post had merit. Spaw's point is well taken. Other nations, cultures, peoples etc, are not likely to hear us when we say "We fucked up, learn from our mistakes!", because the sense that we benefited from the error overshadows the fact of the continued cost and damage (ie payment) of that benefit. We look hypocritical when in fact we're sounding the alarm. Trees save lives. Music heals. Both create peace. Ignorance is no defense. Mooh. |
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26 Jul 00 - 08:59 AM (#264910) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: Allan C. If you ever find yourself with a bit of time and a lot of money, take a trip somewhere and see a rainforest. You will thank yourself again and again. The best part is that when you return, your first-hand accounts and descriptions will have far more influence on a surprising number of people than any email or news report could ever have. If folks could simply see and appreciate the beauty of a rainforest and disregard the potential for making money from its resources, they would never allow the destruction. But even if you can never make the journey, a number of zoos are now featuring rainforest exhibits. The one at the National Zoo in Washington, D.C. is excellent. Oh, and while I'm on the subject of zoos I should share a secret. The National Zoo is free to the public. On its signs, it states that it opens at 10 AM (if memory serves). However, the gate is actually open at about 7 AM. This is when the animals are most active. It is, for instance, about the time that the lions are fed. (The roaring is awesome!) This is the time to be there. By the time most people arrive at the zoo, the animals are in siesta mode and mostly just lay about. The zoo is much more fun to see in the early morning. I have been there quite a few times at 7 or so and have never had anyone complain. |
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26 Jul 00 - 12:29 PM (#265040) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: Homeless I think that Allan has a good point on beauty vs profit regarding the common man. But how many of us average people who work for a living actually profit enough to count much? It's the higher-ups in the corporations who make the decisions to destroy the resources, and I often wonder if they are capable of seeing the beauty that we see. Maybe the only beauty they see ends in "llion" or has a bunch of zeros to the right of the number. The really tough part is - How can I, an everyday grunt, influence a man who has an army of subordinates at his disposal? I can't even imagine what it is like to be a person of that status and wealth, let alone figure out what motivates him. Has anyone out in Mudcatland dealt with influencing corporations before and have the ability to give us some pointers? |
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26 Jul 00 - 01:08 PM (#265067) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: McGrath of Harlow Here's something you can do anyway, every day - visit the Rainforest site and click on a button, and the advertisers pay for a few feet of rainforest to be preserved.
You can't save the planet on your own, but you can save a few trees. (This is linked up with the hungersite which works on the same basis to buy rice for hungry people.)
Visit them when you log on, and put them on your email signature. |
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26 Jul 00 - 02:20 PM (#265110) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: Clinton Hammond2 The worst plague on this planet is called Humanity.... Just think how much better of it'd be without us! [~` |
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26 Jul 00 - 02:30 PM (#265119) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: SeanM I'm with you, Clinton! We'll implement that idea right along with my idea for eliminating juvenile crime by outlawing all children between the age of 1 and 18! M |
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26 Jul 00 - 07:00 PM (#265346) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: Bill D .....as a woodworker, I am concerned, but as a human, I am even more concerned. Quite apart from the general 'wasting of resources' argument, the population problem that has led to people NEEDING to cut more rain forest every 2 or 3 years in order to replace the lousy farms that it provides is a world-wide issue. Also, the situation is that, the Brazilian..(and southern Colombia, Venezuela, Guiana..etc.) rainforest has a major effect on weather world wide. There are serious studies and computer modeling programs trying to predict just what will happen if the rain forest disappears. There DOES seem to a close relationship between what happens over the Amazon region and the weather in the Sahara and northern Africa. One can argue whether or not 'X' is a scam, or 'Y' is exaggerated right now, but simple arithmetic will tell you that you can't cut down, pave over, use up, over fish, and generally pollute this finite planet forever! You can't HAVE 27 billion people on this earth. You can't mine the Grand Banks of fish and still allow my grandchildren to have seafood dinners at a reasonable cost. You can't chop down Mahogany at this rate and still leave ME a dab to turn into bowls. (I can no longer get MANY nice woods that were plentiful when I was a kid)... What can be done? You mean besides invading Brazil and saying "stop"?..*grin*.....There are people doing what needs to be done...support them, when you can figure out which ones deserve it..(it ain't always easy) I am afraid that money, greed, ignorance and national 'honor' are forces that are too powerful to overcome...*sigh*....Nature has her ways of 'adjusting' things, but they may not be much fun. |
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27 Jul 00 - 12:56 AM (#265520) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: GUEST Come on... you can't have it both ways. The computer you are typing on was made in a factory that displaced a forest... so does the power company that keeps you computer running... so does the clothes manufacturer that made your clothes (assuming you are wearing some!). The house you live in was once "unspoiled wilderness"... so was the rest of the city you enjoy... and the farms you depend on to eat... the venues you play in... etc...etc...etc. Seems to me that most of this eco-mumbo-jumbo is an indulgence for those who have the luxury to say how OTHERS shouldn't use the resources available to them.... IM(humble)O Ron |
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27 Jul 00 - 06:36 AM (#265584) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: Peter K (Fionn) Good post, Allan C. If you ever had that killer touch you worried about, it looks like you've lost it. This thread's survived your intervention in good heath, and that one you started lately is now well past the ton mark. I spent many weeks cycling in Alaska and it had the same profound effect on me that a rainforest had on you. As a journo I came home wanting to write about it, but in the end didn't. I had become acutely conscious that anything that encourages anyone (ncluding me) to visit the place, is only going to contribute to fucking it all up. Good one, Spaw. |
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27 Jul 00 - 10:53 AM (#265728) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: Lena I've always heard that the all Amazon issue doesn't come from Brazil selling off but from wealthy nations(no need to name them)which Brazil is indebted to freely disposing of those natural resources.It's called colonialism,and it's made of money nowdays as it was made of weapons and missions centuries ago. To spread the word is admirable,especially when people tents to shut up saying Ooooh,well ,we all know,it's everywhere... There is a site : www.care2.com running a Race for the Rain Forest.You click a button and some sponsors pay off some money to buy some bits of the Amazon Rainforest to preserve it from being...well,fucked. What are people living in America going to breathe?! It all drives me desperately angry. But,well,the planet is going to survive.Give it two hundred years without us,and it will all be like before. But we're not. And we really deserve it.As humans,we're stupid.As animals,we're hopless. |
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27 Jul 00 - 08:00 PM (#266136) Subject: RE: BS: Serious Eco-damage From: Bill D guest Ron..you CAN have it both ways, but you are not likely to. It would require too much of the ignorant & greedy. It did not dawn on most of us until the 60s what the problems were, and of course you can't have what we have without some trade-offs.....but we can have computers and forest, too, if we really want to...but if we destroy ALL the forest, we also get NO computers eventually... |