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10 Aug 00 - 05:29 PM (#275333) Subject: Lyr Add: DANCING AT WHITSUN (John Austin Marshall) From: Joe Offer The lyrics are in the database here (click), but somebody suggested that our transcription of the lyrics is not completely accurate. I've checked CD booklets from Bok-Muir-Trickett and Priscilla Herdman and listened to a Jean Redpath recording, and this is what I've come up with. I can't find a copyright date for the song - can anybody give us copyright information? Also, any additional information about the song or about John Austin Marshall would be helpful. The tune is indicated to be "The False Bride" - is it completely traditional? DANCING AT WHITSUN (words by Austin John Marshall) It's fifty long springtimes since she was a bride, But still you may see her at each Whitsuntide In a dress of white linen with ribbons of green, As green as her memories of loving. The feet that were nimble tread carefully now, As gentle a measure as age will allow, Through groves of white blossoms, by fields of young corn, Where once she was pledged to her true love. The fields they stand empty, the hedges grow free-- No young men to turn them, our pastures go seed They are gone where the forests of oak trees before Have gone, to be wasted in battle. Down from the green farmlands and from their loved ones Marched husbands and brothers and fathers and sons. There's a fine roll of honor where the Maypole once stood, And the ladies go dancing at Whitsun. There's a straight row of houses in these latter days All covering the downs where the sheep used to graze. There's a field of red poppies, a wreath from the Queen But the ladies remember at Whitsun, And the ladies go dancing at Whitsun. on Bok-Trickett-Muir "Harbors of Home." Also Jean Redpath's self-titled Philo album and Tim Hart and Maddy Prior on "Summer Solstice" and Priscilla Herdman on "Water Lily." Copyright Austin John Marshall 1968 @war @dance filename[ DNCWHIT Tune file : FLSEBRD2 CLICK TO PLAY D C Bok-Trickett-Muir say "or pastures go see," and Herdman sings "our pastures go seed." Take your pick, at least until we find a version direct from Marshall. I think Herdman's version makes more sense. The database says "(a gift from the Queen)" but Herdman, Redpath, and Bok-Trickett-Muir agree on "wreath." -Joe Offer- |
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10 Aug 00 - 05:54 PM (#275348) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: GUEST,Chris Flint The song is in 'The Cruel Wars' by Karl Dallas and copyright is given as 1968 ( The book is published by Wolfe Publishing london) Thanks, Chris - I added the date. |
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10 Aug 00 - 06:13 PM (#275360) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: Joe Offer Here are the notes from the CD booklets:
-Joe Offer- |
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10 Aug 00 - 09:26 PM (#275468) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: Stewie I first heard it as a solo from Tim Hart on Tim Hart and Maddy Prior 'Summer Solstice'. He sang 'or pastures go see' and 'a wreath from the queen'. He also sang 'age do allow' rather than 'age will allow'. --Stewie. |
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10 Aug 00 - 09:57 PM (#275495) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: Malcolm Douglas Marshall wrote this song for Shirley Collins, and produced the album on which it was first recorded, Anthems in Eden (1969). The text Joe gives above is very nearly right; except for: Verse 1, line 1: "Fifty-onespringtimes" Verse 2, line 2: "age do allow" Verse 3, line 2: "or pastures go see" Verse 4, line 3: "Maypole once was Verse 5, line 1: "row of straight houses. Shirley has to be credited with the definitive version; the person who wrote it recorded her singing it. Malcolm |
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10 Aug 00 - 10:00 PM (#275497) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: Malcolm Douglas and I have to be credited with missing out a "B" at just the wrong place... I added the missing "b," Malcolm. Thanks for your help. |
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11 Aug 00 - 07:57 PM (#276056) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: Susanne (skw) This is Dallas' info: [1973:] Austin John Marshall writes: "Many of the old ladies who swell the membership lists of Country Dance Societies are 1914/18 war widows, or ladies who have lost fiancés and lovers. Country dancing kept the memory of their young men alive. When Shirley Collins started singing the piece to the tune of The False Bride, the impact was disturbing, for many people in audiences identified with it. Tears were frequent. Now a sharp relevance in contemporary song is one thing but such a pessimistic effect was not what was intended. So when Shirley recorded the song we showed the way the spirit of the generation sacrificed in the mud of France had been caught and brought to life by the new generation born since World War II by concluding with the chorus of the Staines Morris:
With your music dance and song Bring your lasses in your hands For 'tis now that love commands Then to the maypole haste away For 'tis now a holiday." (Dallas, Wars 241) |
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11 Aug 00 - 09:13 PM (#276082) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: Malcolm Douglas I neglected to include the copyright information from Anthems in Eden: Whitsun Dance (the song's original title) "Trad arr S. & D. Collins, Lyrics by A.J. Marshall; MCPS/Soundpost Publ./Shapiro Bernstein & Co. Ltd., 1969." Staines Morris is, of course, here: Staines Morris Malcolm |
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11 Aug 00 - 09:39 PM (#276092) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: Joe Offer Susanne - Bok-Trickett-Muir's Harbors of Home came out in September, 1998. Priscilla Herdman's The Water Lily was her first album, released in 1977 - Rounder reissued it in 1995. "Lily" is mostly the poetry of Australian Henry Lawson, set to music by Herdman and others. "Whitsun" and a couple others are thrown in as extra treats - but the whole album is a treat (but then I like all of her recordings). -Joe Offer- |
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12 Aug 00 - 12:07 AM (#276166) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: Barbara Joe, I'm sure Gordon has recorded that much earlier and solo. Do you have a discography for him, or shall I go look? I know he sang it alone because my spouse likes that version better. blessings, Barbara |
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12 Aug 00 - 10:36 AM (#276283) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: McGrath of Harlow The version in The Cruel Wars is the same version as the one of Anthems in Eden, as detailed by Malcolm Douglas, so I think it's pretty clearly the author's preference. More to the point (since ssongs should always be alowed to change), at least in my ears, the original lines work better than the variants quoted. ("Go seed" might read more logically than "go see", but a line ending in "seed" followed by one starting with "the" doesn't run as well.) |
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12 Aug 00 - 03:11 PM (#276385) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: zander (inactive) Of course at one time Austin John Marshall was married to Shirley Collins, what a superb singer of English folk songs was Shirley, along with her late sister Dolly, sadly missed on the British folk scene. Dave |
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12 Aug 00 - 03:41 PM (#276392) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun - Bok? From: Joe Offer A couple of years ago, there were hardly any Shirley Collins CD's available in the U.S. That has changed. Dick has a couple listed at CAMSCO, and I'm sure he'll soon have more. CDNOW has a number of CD's listed for Shirley Collins and for Shirley & Dolly Collins. Yes, Barbara, I'd like you to find a Bok discography for us. I didn't find a discography at Gordon's Timberhead label, http://www.gordonbok.com, but maybe I wasn't looking in the right place. I checked Folk Music: An Index of Recorded Sources and found that Bok-Trickett-Muir recorded the song on their early Ways of Man album, but did not find a listing for a solo recording by Gordon. Seems to me I've heard a solo recording by Gordon - maybe it's the one on Ways of Man. I'm used to calling the group Bok-Muir-Trickett, but lately it seems to be listed more often as Bok-Trickett-Muir. Did the pecking order change? -Joe Offer- |
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12 Aug 00 - 04:53 PM (#276429) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: Susanne (skw) Thanks, Joe, for the info. BTW, do I get thrown out of Mudcat for admitting I've never liked Shirley Collins's voice and style of singing? - Susanne |
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12 Aug 00 - 05:09 PM (#276437) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: Joe Offer Nope. I can take Shirley and long ballads only in small doses. You can sure learn a lot from her recordings, but It's kind of like doing homework or taking castor oil. Good for you, perhaps - but not absolute pleasure. -Joe Offer- |
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12 Aug 00 - 05:35 PM (#276453) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: Barbara Hi, Joe, and no, I didn't find a single discography, but I used the search engine at Folk-Legacy and it gave me the info in several pieces. Whitsun is on Ways of Man, tho it doesn't say if it is sung by all or just Gordon. I know I have heard it done just by him. Blessings, Barbara |
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12 Aug 00 - 07:27 PM (#276494) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: McGrath of Harlow Small doses is the best for strong medicine. I can't imagine anyone singing The Whitsun Dances better than Shirley. And I can't think of a song that as economical and powerful. And I know I could never sing it without cracking up in the fourth verse. |
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13 Aug 00 - 12:37 AM (#276683) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: Ferrara In the For What It's Worth department, I've always sung the start of the second verse as: The fields they stand empty, the hedges grow free-- No young men to turn them, or pastures o'er see where I took "o'er see" to mean "oversee" or "tend." That is, the young men would trim hedges, plow or turn and plant the fields, but they would simply tend the pastures and watch the flocks or herds there. Sounds as if this was not the original words but I still like it.... RF
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14 Aug 00 - 10:59 PM (#277909) Subject: RE: Dancing at Whitsun From: Noreen Thanks for this, Joe, I've only just got your message. I can't add anything further, as Malcolm (thank you) has posted the original, but I do think "......maypole once was..." sounds awkward and I'm used to hearing "..once stood....." Lovely to hear more of the history of the song as it's always meant a lot to me, and I'm with McGrath in finding it very difficult to sing- has to be in the right company, who understand. Noreen |
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26 Jan 06 - 05:23 PM (#1656196) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Joe Offer I'd like to learn this song, but the way I sing parts of the tune don't seem quite right to me. It's almost the same as Birmingham Sunday, and I think that's what's getting me confused. Are they supposed to be the same tune? I know both are based on I Once Loved a Lass, but are there differences in the tune for the three songs? -Joe Offer- |
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26 Jan 06 - 09:42 PM (#1656266) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: robinia I just listened to a tape of "Wany of Man" and while Bok is the lead (and initially solo) singer, he'e definitely joined by Muir and then Tricket. It would be easy to remember the song as simply sung by him, though... Amd Joe, Dancing at Whitsun doesn't have the same melody as the much easier to remember I Once Loved a Lass. At least, I find the second tune easier to remember and I bet a lot of other people do too. That's the trouble! If you don't depart from the simpler melody on the third and fourth notes (I had to listen again to the tape to figure this out) you find yourself falling into the wrong song, I don't know Birmingham Sunday (and am afraid to click on the link for fear of losing my iffy Mudcat connection), but if it's something in between, then no wonder people are confused! |
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26 Jan 06 - 10:33 PM (#1656270) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Malcolm Douglas The tune is that of another version, not the one that was used for 'Birmingham Sunday'. 'I Once Loved a Lass' (a Scottish form of the song) is given the same tune in the DT as 'Birmingham Sunday'; unfortunately no source is credited, so don't rely on it being accurate or even the right one. Here's a provisional midi, made from memory (and so likely to contain mistakes, particularly in the phrasing) of Shirley's recording, which I only have on vinyl at the moment. It may do to start with, though. Corrections would be welcome. http://folk-network.com/audio/whitsun.mid |
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27 Jan 06 - 01:01 AM (#1656333) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: robinia Shirley's rendition of Dancing at Whitsun? Fascinating (and quite different from the common form of I Once Loved a Lass). I love the way it morphs into the less ornamented Dancing at Whitsun (i.e., as Bok et al. sing the song). And are you saying that it's also a Scottish form of I Once Loved a Lass? Good melodies do travel . . . Sorry about the typos in previous posting, but the mudcat connection this evening, at least for me, is very hit and miss, so I post and run. Are the rest of you having trouble too? |
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10 Jul 08 - 09:58 AM (#2385661) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Mr Happy While at Cleckheaton FF this year, this fine song was requested & 쳌ethough not having sung it for over 20 years, I was able to perform & recall almost all the verses. Afterwards the requestor commented that my rendition differed slightly from the version he쳌fd heard [Dubliners] From reading through this thread, I find I쳌fm not alone in feeling that some쳌fve the lyrics don쳌ft make sense. This is the version I do: DANCING AT WHITSUN (John Austin Marshall) It's fifty long springtimes since she was a bride, But still you may see her at each Whitsuntide In a dress of white linen with ribbons of green, As green as her memories of loving. The feet that were nimble tread carefully now, As gentle a measure as age will allow, Through groves of white blossoms, by fields of young corn, Where once she was pledged to her truelove. The fields they stand empty, the hedges grow free No young men to tend them nor pastures to seed They are gone like the forests of oak trees before Have gone, to be wasted in battle. Down from the green farmlands and from their loved ones Marched husbands and brothers and fathers and sons. There's a fine roll of honour where the Maypole once stood, And the ladies go dancing at Whitsun. There's a straight row of houses in these latter days All covering the downs where the sheep used to graze. There's a wreath of red poppies a gift from the Queen But the ladies remember at Whitsun, And the ladies go dancing at Whitsun. |
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10 Jul 08 - 10:45 AM (#2385690) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Susan of DT There are two main tunes for the False Bride family of songs (DT #845). There is the I Aince Loved a Lass/Birmingham Sunday tune and the Week Before Easter/Dancing at Whitsun tune. |
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10 Jul 08 - 12:50 PM (#2385799) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: GUEST,Arkie I heard this by Tim Hart and am glad to learn of the Bok version. Something else to look forward to. Have been really haunted by the song and am happy to have the words and more information. This is Mudcat at its best as far as I am concerned. Joe, thanks for starting this thread. I found the song on emusic while searching for songs by Maddie Prior. A good example of treasures discovered quite by accident. Emusic now lists a version by Bram Taylor. |
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10 Jul 08 - 12:53 PM (#2385802) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Lord Batman's Kitchener This a very lovely song, my neice and I perform it on a regular basis. It has very deep meaning though, if performed on Rememberance Day (11th November)I must admit not having dry eyes. |
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10 Jul 08 - 03:02 PM (#2385940) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Fidjit Been in my song bag since '68. Although not at the top for a while now. Although I dusted it off last week to sing in the Church concert I did last week. Chas |
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10 Jul 08 - 03:06 PM (#2385942) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Lord Batman's Kitchener We (my neice and I) perform it every Rememberance Day at our church, and as I said we perform it on a regular basis otherwise. |
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10 Jul 08 - 08:04 PM (#2386170) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Folkiedave And will be played tomorrow on my programme. As part of an interview with MArtyn Wyndham-Read and "Maypoles to Mistletoe". |
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11 Jul 08 - 03:02 AM (#2386311) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: GUEST,Songbird Please, what programme is this? Where? when etc. |
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11 Jul 08 - 03:22 AM (#2386321) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: gnomad Songbird, I can't be sure, but I suspect that this thread is the answer to your query. I hope it helps. |
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11 Jul 08 - 04:43 PM (#2386893) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Folkiedave Hi Gnomad - that's it - comes towards the end of the first half - sung by Martyn Wyndham-Read. It is also on Crucible's latest CD "Love and Money". |
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11 Jul 08 - 05:02 PM (#2386909) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Little Robyn Shirley's tune is The week before Easter. I've been searching the DT for the Copper family words but I can't believe they're not there. Find them here on the Copper family site. That's the way we always used to sing it. Robyn |
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15 Jul 08 - 06:59 AM (#2389445) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Jim Dixon Google Book Search indicates that the lyrics to DANCING AT WHITSUN are given in The Oxford Book of English Traditional Verse by Frederick Woods, 1983. Only "snippets" are viewable, but it's enough to see that (1) the author's name is Austin John Marshall (NOT John Austin..., as frequently listed in this thread), and (2) the song begins "It's fifty-one springtimes since she was a bride". |
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08 Apr 12 - 10:31 AM (#3335360) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: GUEST,Michael Hurwicz There is a version here, which (based on the notes following it) I think may be from the author himself: http://media.smithsonianfolkways.org/liner_notes/fast_folk/FFSE105.pdf That version is an image of a newsletter, but there is a typed out version of the same here: http://www.marcogiunco.com/Testi/002511_05.htm This version has: "No young men to tend them, nor pastures to see" Two other small differences: "Are covering the downs" instead of "All covering the downs" "Down from their green farmlands" instead of "Down from the green farmlands" |
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08 Apr 12 - 01:47 PM (#3335412) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: GUEST,kendall Poignant and beautiful song. I once got into it with Louie Killen( A friendly discussion)about the meaning of ..gone where the forests of Oak trees once stood, gone to be wasted in battle.. he was adamant that the forests of Oak trees were victims of the industrial revolution. We never did agree. |
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08 Apr 12 - 02:36 PM (#3335438) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Desert Dancer Since I'm having trouble getting a whole out of the bits and pieces here, here's the lyric and notes that Michael Hurwicz points to: THE WHITSUN DANCE (DANCING AT WHITSUN) [Note: There are a couple peculiar errors in these notes that I take to be problems of whoever typed up the newsletter in reading Marshall's handwriting. I have made these fixes: changed Shirley "A." Dolly Collins to "and"; Tim "Harb" to "Hart".] These are from the record notes published in The CooP, The Fast Folk Musical Magazine, June 1982 vol. 1, #5 (now available from Smithsonian Folkways, where you can you can download the song sung by author John Marshall for $0.99). (More on Fast Folk.) Elsewhere in the notes: AUSTIN JOHN MARSHALL: As "John the Angel Fish," John Marshall has been reading poetry at the Folk Co-op since February of this year. Before that in the U.K. he had been a writer and producer of albums, notably for his first wife, Shirley Collins, and Steve Ashley. In addition, he as produced films of both Jimi Hendrix and The Incredible String Band. |
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08 Apr 12 - 02:41 PM (#3335440) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: SINSULL The feet that were nimble tread carefully now, As gentle a measure as age will allow, Every day I carefully urge my aching knees down the stairs to my cubicle at work and think these lines. Age is not for the faint of heart. SINS |
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08 Apr 12 - 06:28 PM (#3335502) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Tootler OT for a moment. Kendall, The two things that mostly felled the forests of Southern England were iron smelting (which strictly speaking was pre-industrial revolution) and shipbuilding. The heritage centre at Buckler's Hard on the west side of Southampton Water has some data on the number of trees that were felled to build ships for the Royal Navy during the Napoleonic wars. I can't remember the figures but it was many thousands. The development of coke fired blast furnaces for iron smelting was driven, at least in part, by the growing shortage of timber for making charcoal. |
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09 Apr 12 - 03:47 AM (#3335591) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Dave Hanson Desert Dancer, the Shirley and Dolly Collins album is ' Anthems in Eden ' not autumns. Dave H |
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09 Apr 12 - 02:51 PM (#3335846) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: scouse Poignant and beautiful song. I once got into it with Louie Killen( A friendly discussion)about the meaning of ..gone where the forests of Oak trees once stood, gone to be wasted in battle.. he was adamant that the forests of Oak trees were victims of the industrial revolution. Not so I think.... The oak trees where more than likely the ones from the New Forest that where used to build the ships from Henry V111 onwards. There's not many left of the originals. The village of Buckler's Hart in the forest built many ships. As Aye, Phil. |
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09 Apr 12 - 03:17 PM (#3335864) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Tootler Scouse, Did you read my post? The Weald of Sussex was once an important iron making region. The industry eventually declined, at least in part, because most of the trees had been cut down to make charcoal. The first world war also required large quantities of wood and it is possible the oaks referred to in the song were actually cut down during WWI. |
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09 Apr 12 - 05:18 PM (#3335928) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Fidjit Joe. The folk process willout. We've all heard this so many times. And yet many still think it is traditional. I first heard it, and have it by Tim Hart (and Maddy Prior) Summer Solstice. Neve knew who actually wrote it. Good to know. Thanks. Shall enlighten all next time I sing it. Chas |
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09 Apr 12 - 08:02 PM (#3335999) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: kendall I knew I was right. The natural resources were the reason England fought so hard to keep the colonies. |
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10 Apr 12 - 12:42 PM (#3336303) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Desert Dancer Dave Hanson, correction noted -- but "Autumns" instead of "Anthems" is John Marshall's error, not mine. :-) ~ Becky in Long Beach |
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10 Apr 12 - 01:35 PM (#3336333) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: GUEST,henryp Now we're in the mood for corrections, Pentecost is the same event as Whitsun. It's the Sunday 50 days after Easter Day. Whitsun was followed by a Bank Holiday Monday in England. Its date was linked to Easter, but it has now been replaced with the Spring Bank Holiday on the last Monday in May. This year, 2012, the Bank Holiday will be on the first Monday in June, and will be followed by another holiday on the Tuesday to mark the Queen's Diamond Jubilee. Each Bank Holiday is said to cost the UK economy £2.3 billion. I suppose that is what makes them so enjoyable. |
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10 Apr 12 - 05:15 PM (#3336457) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: scouse GUEST,henryp...Thank the good lord I live in "Cloggieland." now!!! They don't have to many over here. Mind you the economy is still shite here! As Aye, Phil. |
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01 Jun 12 - 12:12 PM (#3358072) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: GUEST,Sleepyjon (lost my cookie) . . and Whitsun ("White Sunday") is so called because either (sources vary) it was the last day that the newly baptised of Easter wore their white robes of baptism to mark the end of the Easter season, or because they dragged them out again for that same reason, - not therefore because the Morris dancers were wearing white for the first time in the year (although I suppose nothing says that either tradition predates the other - or that they both don't derive from something earlier still.) |
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05 Mar 18 - 05:57 AM (#3909515) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: FreddyHeadey : Desert Dancer - Date: 08 Apr 12 - 02:36 PM mentioned the Smithsonian link to a recording of Austin John Marshall singing. It's also on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/track/7bfDOdzxRV1HK2EeJSkewQ [btw I'm hearing as 08 Apr 12 - 02:36 but fathers and sons to tend them, nor pastures go seed poppies and a wreath music, dance and song ] |
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06 Mar 18 - 08:51 PM (#3909850) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: GUEST There is a dis-connect that bothers me. In the second verse she is walking "by fields of young corn" but in the the third verse we are told "the fields they stand empty." So if I am performing the song for an audience more than my self, I'll preceed the third verse in a speaking voice with the intro, "But for years and years...." Seems to tie the sentiment and what the song is trying to convey better, at least to me. It is one of those songs that merits an explanation before you sing it. Gopherit |
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06 Mar 18 - 09:45 PM (#3909852) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Steve Shaw "Anthems" is one of my eight desert island discs. In my view, the very best compilation of Shirley's songs is on a record called Fountain Of Snow (the title coming from the words of the song Polly Vaughan), released in 1992. Indispensable. |
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07 Mar 18 - 06:10 AM (#3909883) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: GUEST,Some bloke I've always sung it as "pastures to seed" I'm sure that in the depths of time, I sat writing it down from a tape of Shirley Collins singing it... |
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07 Jun 18 - 01:16 AM (#3929587) Subject: Dancing at Whitsun From: GUEST,Elizabeth Hovey - A Morris dancing "lady" I'm grateful to all who have described their relationship to this song and the versions of lyrics. My Morris team, all women, and in fact the oldest ongoing women's Morris team in North America, has been asked to come to a English-Style Garden's revisiting of a 1918 celebration there of the end of the Great War. (In Old Westbury, Long Island, NY on 6/23). It certainly seems no other song compares with it for fitting this occasion. And we will need a break between dances. I only heard of Dancing at Whitsun for the first time a couple of weeks back. (It was on our american Memorial Day, which coincides with the fixed holiday that once was Whitsun.) A more startling coincidence is that our team dances primarily in the style of Ascott-Under-Wychwood, the very town that Jean Redpath identified as losing 80-90% of its male population in the war. Although I have song in several choirs, and led a song as many as 5 times, I have never, ever had a solo, and it is looking like this performance must be one. I will be grateful for any well-wishes. If you know someone who would be interested in this weekend honoring the end of WW1 in the greater NYC area, please pass along the details. We'll be dancing our hearts out. https://www.oldwestburygardens.org/se_gymkhana_062318.htm |
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07 Jun 18 - 02:07 AM (#3929591) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Joe Offer Well, since the song was written for Shirley Collins, I guess one could consider the Shirley Collins version to be definitive - but I think I like several word choices in later versions more - even Shirley Collins made changes in later performances. Here's the recording from the Shirley Collins box set Within Sound (2002): And here's my transcription of this recording: WHITSUN DANCE (words by Austin John Marshall, as recorded by Shirley Collins) It's fifty-one springtimes since she was a bride, But still you may see her at each Whitsuntide In a dress of white linen and ribbons of green, As green as her memories of loving. The feet that were nimble tread carefully now, As gentle a measure as age do allow, Through groves of white blossom(?), by fields of young corn, Where once she was pledged to her true love. The fields they are empty, the hedges grow free-- No young men to tend them, or pastures go see They've gone where the forest of oak trees before(?) Has(?) gone to be wasted in battle. Down from their green farmlands and from their loved ones Marched husbands and fathers and brothers and sons. There's a fine roll of honor where the Maypole once was, And the ladies are dancing at Whitsun. There's a row of straight houses in these latter days All covering the downs where the sheep used to graze. There's a field of red roses (??), a wreath from the Queen But the ladies remember at Whitsun, And the ladies are(?) dancing at Whitsun. Some of these words are hard to understand, but I did the best I could and put question marks where I had trouble. The "red roses" surprised me, but that's what I hear. Reinhard's Mainly Norfolk says this was a previously unreleased 1968 demo, so maybe it was polished up a bit in later recordings. There's another Shirley Collins recording of the song here:The lyrics in this version have poppies and several other differences from the demo recording. Please note the post above (click) from Desert Dancer for a 1982 version of the lyrics from the songwriter himself, Austin John Marshall. |
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08 Jun 18 - 12:25 AM (#3929741) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Reinhard Joe, I hear "poppies", not "roses" in this recording. and "Had gone to be wasted". The rest of question-marked words are correct. I also would write "honour" - it's a very English song. |
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08 Jun 18 - 01:15 AM (#3929748) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Joe Offer Yes, and now that I listen to the 1968 recording another day, I can hear "poppies." Still, I'd say the songwriter's version is most reliable. Thanks, Reinhard. -Joe- |
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08 Jun 18 - 05:28 AM (#3929779) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Keith A of Hertford You do know that poppies are the symbol of remembrance here, and everyone in public life wears one in the run up to Remembrance Day (nearest Sunday to Nov 11) ? |
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08 Jun 18 - 10:16 AM (#3929820) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: FreddyHeadey btw ... Lovely version here by Rosie Hodgson & Rowan Piggott https://rosiehodgson.bandcamp.com/track/dancing-at-whitsun |
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29 May 21 - 07:13 PM (#4108105) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Joe Offer Whitsun was last Sunday, but this additional last verse written by Anne Coleman is too good to miss. I'm not sure I could sing it without getting weepy. The last of them's gone now. They say they're at rest All laid in the kind earth with the bravest and best But if you go out early on a bright golden morn You can see them all dancing at Whitsun ... They're dancing together now at Whitsun. Emailed to me by Elizabeth Block. |
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30 May 21 - 04:21 AM (#4108152) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Rumncoke I remember seeing the 'Whit Walking' when I was at home in Barnsley, South Yorkshire. The Sunday School children in their white clothes would be paraded around the streets in two long lines - though I don't know exactly the reason for it. I don't find anything odd in the ladies dancing past white blossom and young corn beside the roads around the village, the best land, but able to see, higher up on the hillsides fields unkept for lack of men to work on them, and maybe horses too - lots of horses were taken from the farms, and from carters and carriers too, which disrupted the lives of many people. My father's mothers family went 'into town' from the wilds of Derbyshire three times a year and relied on deliveries and collections for the rest of the time. |
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02 Jun 21 - 12:51 AM (#4108501) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: vectis There's a wreath of red poppies, a gift from the Queen |
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27 Mar 23 - 04:06 PM (#4168667) Subject: ADD: The Week Before Easter From: Joe Offer The Week Before Easter Early Christians believed the week before Easter was a good time to be baptized, calling it "White Week" because of the clothing customarily worn between Palm Sunday and Good Friday. The song is also known as "The False Bride" who was, in keeping with the season, "dressed all in white." We took this version in the 1970s from the singing of Robin and Barry Dransfield. The week before Easter, the morn bright and clear The sun it shone brightly and keen blowed the air I went to the forest to gather fine flowers But the forest would give me no roses. The roses are red, love, and the leaves they are green The bushes and the briars are a pleasure to be seen And the small birds are singing and ranging their notes All among the wild beasts in the forest. Now the first time I saw my love, she was dressed all in white In robes of white linen, fair dazzled my sight And I thought to myself, well, I might have been that man But she's going to be wed to another. And the next time I saw my love, she did in the church stand With a ring on her finger, and a glove in her hand And I thought to myself, well, I might have been that man But she's gone and she's wed to another. And the parson that married them, aloud he did cry, All you that forbid it, I'd have you stand nigh And I thought to myself, I've a good reason why But I had not the heart to forbid it And the last time I saw my love, she was sat down to dine Well, I sat down beside her and I poured out the wine And I drank to the lassie that should have been mine But she's gone and she's wed to another. The men in yon forest, they're asking me "How many wild strawberries grow in the salt sea?" And I ask it them back with a tear in my eye "How many dark ships in the forest?" Go and dig me a grave, dig it long, wide and deep Aye, and cover it over with flowers so sweet So I can lie down there and take a long sleep And that's the best way to forget her. http://www.goldenhindmusic.com/lyrics/WEEKBEFO.html |
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27 Mar 23 - 05:13 PM (#4168675) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dancing at Whitsun From: Reinhard Joe, shouldn't this go into the thread Lyr & Tune add: The False Bride (Penguin) ? |