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18 Aug 00 - 05:28 AM (#280113) Subject: What is a Folksinger? From: GUEST,Ray Seriously. My mind began to dazzle as I read the Rick Fielding Thread. I know there have been previous discussions on What is Folk Music and What is a Folk Song with various scholarly and unscholarly attempts to define them. So....? |
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18 Aug 00 - 05:32 AM (#280115) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: CarolC Beats me. I can't even figure out exactly what a song is. (See the thread "Is it a song if....") Best wishes, Carol |
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18 Aug 00 - 05:52 AM (#280118) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: dwditty After all these discussions, it is my conclusion that the answers lie in the ears of the behearer. dw |
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18 Aug 00 - 06:18 AM (#280122) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: GUEST,Roger the Skiffler Well the DT has the Folksinger's Lament and Folk singer's blues and Fred Wedlock did a British version The Folker to the tune of Paul Simon's The Boxer: "I massacre folk music with a yard of German plywood and a capo" and a key skill seemed to be if you forgot the 42nd verse of Patrick Spens you "sing the 27th, twice and loud and in reverse, and no one noticed". Me, I have no definition, nor feel the need for one. I sing skiffle, blues, jazz, folk, 50s rock & roll, music hall, all sorts of "oldies", all equally badly and normally in private. I don't call myself anything, certainly not a singer. When I listen to Broonzy or Leadbelly I don't worry "Is that a blues or a folk song?". When I listen to Fred McDowell or Gary Davis I don't worry "Is that a blues or a spiritual or a folk song?" RtS (still an ignorant old git) |
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18 Aug 00 - 07:05 AM (#280129) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca In academic theory, Folk Songs are songs which have been passed from person to person over time orally. By that definition not many of the current folk singers learned their songs that way, but through tape/record/CD/printed page. Source singers are still available, but are becoming fewer and fewer. There seems to be a distinction between the person who writes the song as well. All songs are written by someone. Some are older, and we may not know who wrote them. Still there are songwriters, who write songs to commemorate an event. Some of those songs can seem to be enough of a keeper, that they will last. I consider those people to be folk singers too as they usually sing their own songs. Check out Dave Stone from Cape Breton, Nova Scotia |
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18 Aug 00 - 07:31 AM (#280137) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: CarolC In case anybody decides to get all steamed up in this thread, I vote for one rule here in the Mudcat. I vote that anybody who gets pissed off (angry, for our Brittish friends), should be required to go read the "Little Bunny Foo-Foo" thread, and then be happy. |
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18 Aug 00 - 08:16 AM (#280149) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: rabbitrunning Or, for fun, try reading Ellis Peter's mystery book "Black is the Colour of My True Love's Heart" which is set at a weekend convention of folksingers/lovers in 1960's Britain for the background conversation on folk music. |
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18 Aug 00 - 10:02 AM (#280188) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: katlaughing Or, just remember your manners and be polite.:-) |
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18 Aug 00 - 10:10 AM (#280194) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Sean Belt It's obvious isn't it? A folk singer is a singer of folk songs. Every time your momma sang "Hush little baby, don't say a word..." when you were little, she was a folksinger. Everytime you hear a bunch of kids singing "Ring a ring o'roses", they're folk singers. When you absent-mindedly sing or hum a folk song (whatever THAT is!) you're a folksinger. It's a transient designation, I think and moves from person to person freely and frequently. :-) - Sean |
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18 Aug 00 - 12:29 PM (#280275) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Naemanson George Seto- If we learn from a recorded source aren't we learning from the singer? How is that different from sitting at her/her knee and learning a song? (Sure there is a world of aesthetic differences but...) This is a question that has bothered me for sime time. I have a few of the rereleased collections of Lomaxes field recordings. How does learning a song from that differ from learning a song from, say, a Stan Rogers or Joan Baez album? As a slight thread creep I have a friend who claims that most of us have no right to sing the blues. Of course, it is part of his intro to a blues number that he does a superb job on... |
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18 Aug 00 - 12:33 PM (#280277) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: hesperis Lie, la lie Lie, la lie, lie, lie la lie Lie, la lie... (Couldn't resist, sorry!) |
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18 Aug 00 - 12:46 PM (#280282) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Bert Me |
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18 Aug 00 - 12:58 PM (#280290) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Mbo What if I find little known, well-written music that no one has really ever heard, and make it my job to educate people about this wonderful music that has long lain unnoticed. Can this make me a type of folksinger EVEN if the music in not "folk" per se, or even that old? --Matt |
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18 Aug 00 - 01:15 PM (#280305) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Sean Belt More and more these sorts of discussions where we all try to pin down an elusive term like "folk music" or "folk singer" remind me of a conversation I had a few years ago with a friend of mine who makes his living as an artist. The topic of what exactly is art came up and I figured, "Here's a guy who does this for a living. He should certainly be able to define what he does." So, I asked him point blank: "Larry, what is art?" He thought about it for a little while, took a drink from his coffee cup and said -- in all seriousness mind you -- "Well, I guess I'd have to say that art is what artists do." - Sean |
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18 Aug 00 - 02:12 PM (#280346) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: DougR I would define a folk singer as one who earns his/her living from folksinging. However, Sean makes a very valid point I guess. Anyone who sings folk music is a folk singer when they are warbling. Oh, I don't know. DougR |
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18 Aug 00 - 02:40 PM (#280356) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Sean Belt DougR, I have to take issue with your statement that "a folk singer as one who earns his/her living from folksinging". That's a definition of a "professional" folksinger, certainly. But I think it leaves a lot of ground uncovered. For instance, if a person earns only 20% of their living from folksinging and earns the balance from say teaching music in a grade school or some other field not related to music at all, does that prevent him/her from being a folksinger? Would that criteria have prevented Van Gogh from being called an artist? I guess if I seem to waffle on this point, its because I'm really uncomfortable with labeling and defining this stuff in any rigorous, hard and fast way. I do think that in order to call yourself a folksinger (or an artist, actor, musician, athlete, etc.) you have to genuinely participate in the field. I'm not one of those folks who believe that "I'm and artist if I say I am" or "I don't have to do art, I am art". I mean, there does have to be some form of sincere effort involved. But, I don't see that making money has that much to do with it. I'm just sayin' is all. - "artsy fartsy" Sean |
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18 Aug 00 - 02:41 PM (#280357) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Little Hawk Anyone I think is a folksinger is a folksinger. :-} Jesse Helms is not a folksinger. |
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18 Aug 00 - 02:42 PM (#280358) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Jeri DougR, your definition leaves out most "source" singers. It leaves out sailors singing chanteys, members of chain gangs, people pleasantly pickin' on a porch, singing in church or on a street corner. Of course, the professional aspect is perhaps what caused the term to originate. Wonder if Frank Proffitt considered himself a folksinger, or just a fellow who liked to pick and sing. I think folk singers are those who are known for singing primarily folk songs. Now if everyone will just agree with my definition of a folk song! I can't remember actually using the word to describe anyone, though. "He/she's a musician who plays banjo and sings some old songs, and some new ones." |
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18 Aug 00 - 02:46 PM (#280361) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: GUEST,CLETUS I wuzza thinkin ittid be sumbuddy whyt singz filk songz like Jei dun sed , like thet Frank Proffitt feller. CLETUS |
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18 Aug 00 - 03:01 PM (#280368) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Whistle Stop Jesse Helms isn't a folksinger?!? Why does everyone I know refer to him as "that folkin' Jesse Helms"? |
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18 Aug 00 - 03:01 PM (#280370) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Jeri I think a lot of the confusion comes from the world having turned into such a big place. Many Native American nations described themselves with a word meaning "the people." I think we slap labels on things now that once were just "our music" for a group of people. I guess we need labels and categories if we're trying to describe one particular type/style/location of origin of music or the people that does it, but we labelers are from all over too - it's a bit like being in a sort Tower of Babel at times. When so-and-so talks about folk music or folksingers, they mean "X," and when the next so-and-so talks about those things, they mean "Y." (And both get very irritated when others don't see the words their way.) Probably the only way to discuss topics like this without ending up in an argument is to try to understand what the other person is talking about, get them to try to understand what we're talking about, and quit worrying about convincing them we're right. |
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18 Aug 00 - 03:45 PM (#280394) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Little Hawk Got that right, Jen. |
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18 Aug 00 - 03:51 PM (#280398) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Thomas the Rhymer A folk singer is a person who doesn't care anymore about being popular. A popular singer is a person who doesn't care anymore about being smart. A smart singer is a person who doesn't care anymore about love. A loving singer doesn't care anymore about melodrama. A melodramatic singer doesn't care anymore about peaceful sentiment. A singer of peaceful sentiment doesn't sing about stressful situations. A singer of stressful situations doesn't care any more about ignorance. A singer of ignorance doesn't care anymore about folk music.(return to top) |
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18 Aug 00 - 07:25 PM (#280490) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: CarolC I seems to me, from what I have observed in various threads since I've been here, that trying do define things like folk, folk singers, and even songs, is a lot like trying to nail jello to a wall. Carol |
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18 Aug 00 - 11:19 PM (#280583) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: rabbitrunning I figure that a folksinger is someone who tends to learn songs from anyplace that tickles their fancy, sings them whenever they please, changes them to suit the moment, passes them to friends along with the jokes they've written on the backs of envelopes, knows three or four tunes and all sorts of different ways to sing or play them, more verses than they can remember, a plethora of trivia, and most of all, a folksinger is someone who is willing to take the time to teach someone else a song via the oral tradition. Being able to carry a tune in a bucket is optional. (At least I sure hope it is!) |
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18 Aug 00 - 11:58 PM (#280602) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: campfire rabbitrunning, I think I like your definition best. Then even I can be a folksinger! campfire |
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19 Aug 00 - 12:12 AM (#280608) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Art Thieme A folksinger is what I have been for the last 40 years. Art Thieme |
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19 Aug 00 - 02:45 AM (#280663) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: GUEST,Ray Then Art is Folk. |
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19 Aug 00 - 04:56 AM (#280674) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Escamillo I like very much Rabbitrunning's definition !
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19 Aug 00 - 12:55 PM (#280787) Subject: ADD: Jimmy the Belfast Folksinger From: Quincy As the Ulster comedian James Young used to sing....to the tune of "Black Velvet Band" Chorus I'm Jimmy the Belfast folk singer, Folk songs are my 'specialty', But whenever I sing, the crowd seems to spring, And head for the WC! I am a folk singer from Belfast, With long hair, a beard and guitar, I sing all the folk songs that you've ever heard, I sing them in every lounge bar. Three chords is all that's required, One lesson and you'll be a star, Like me you'll be singing the ballads and folk And a chorus of "fine girl you are". I get up each day at twelve-thirty, To sign at our local boru (brew, dole) I bring my guitar, in my motor car And park at the end of the queue. Them income tax fellas are at me, And that is why I'm on the run I'm shaking to bits, they give me the...fits(???) No tax paid since one nine five one! best wishes Yvonne |
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19 Aug 00 - 09:43 PM (#280952) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Little Hawk "She works up to her britches, up to her neck, writes me letters and sends me checks...she's a humdinger...folksinger" Tell me now...who wrote that? And about whom? The winner gets my undying love and respect...or an autographed picture of Wayne Newton in a tutu. |
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19 Aug 00 - 09:49 PM (#280953) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: CarolC Little Hawk, I don't know the answer to that question, and I'm having a hard time figuring out if that's a good thing, or a bad thing. Carol |
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20 Aug 00 - 10:01 PM (#281404) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: kendall professional folk singer is an oxymoron |
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21 Aug 00 - 08:15 AM (#281585) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Whistle Stop Little Hawk, that was written by Bob Dylan. Could have been about Baez, I suppose (it's on Freewheelin', so the timing would be about right), but I don't know that it was necessarily about anyone in particular. So I guess I get half of the prize -- would that be the love or the respect? [I'll pass on the Wayne Newton picture, unless it's also autographed by J. Edgar Hoover, from whom Wayne probably borrowed the tutu in the first place.] |
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21 Aug 00 - 09:47 AM (#281642) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Jim the Bart Participating in (playing or enjoying) folk music is part of our oral tradition. Defining folk music is part of our anal tradition. Now tell me - which would you rather be doing right now? I'd rather do either than work, but you do what ya gotta do. Have a great day - catch ya later. |
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21 Aug 00 - 09:48 AM (#281643) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Snuffy A folksinger is someone who makes money from singing. A folk singer is someone who doesn't. Wassail! V |
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21 Aug 00 - 01:24 PM (#281750) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Art Thieme A folksinger, on occasion, is an alchemist. He/she sings into the wind---and turns it into the rent (hopefully). Art Thieme |
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21 Aug 00 - 01:45 PM (#281763) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Jim the Bart I think folk singing is like murder - whether something is or isn't is often a question of intent. If you listen the the very first Elvis Presley Sun recordings, you have a kid singing to save his soul. He didn't know what he was doing, or if anyone would buy it, or if anybody would like it. He just had this MUSIC in him that he slapped together out of everything he had heard before that just had to come out. When he hit on "That's Alright Momma, that's alright for you" and Scotty and Bill jumped in, hanging on for dear life, that was truly folk music. That was a FOLK MUSIC MOMENT. And then it was gone. When Sam Philips asked what they were going to put on the other side of the single and they did "Blue Moon of Kentucky", it was already commerce. So to qualify what Art said (respectfully), if you sing into the wind and the rent appears, it's folk music. If you sing it because you're hoping the rent will follow, it's probably Country and Western. |
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21 Aug 00 - 01:49 PM (#281765) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: GUEST,Mbo_at_ECU Did you know that the original recording of "That's Alright, Momma" came from a store where you could go in, sing a song, and for a small fee, have it recorded on a record? He sang that song and had it recorded as a present to his mother on her birthday. |
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21 Aug 00 - 01:49 PM (#281766) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Jim the Bart Before I get paddled for the second part of my last posting by the professional folksingers among us - I was kidding. Joking. Funning. |
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21 Aug 00 - 03:51 PM (#281833) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Whistle Stop Actually, Mbo, the song he recorded for his mother's birthday was a piece of syrupy drivel called "My Happiness". When he recorded "That's All Right, Mama" some months later, it was the result of a lot of trial and error in Sun Studios with Scotty and Bill, trying various songs in various arrangements and seeing if something worked. The moment itself is shrouded in legend, but the more persistent legend has it that Elvis started fooling around with the song during a break in their more "serious" efforts, Scotty and Bill jumped in, and then Sam Phillips (owner of the studio and recording engineer) told them to do it again while he ran the tape. |
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21 Aug 00 - 06:36 PM (#281934) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Jim the Bart Whistle Stop - that's 'xactly how I read it, too. |
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21 Aug 00 - 06:48 PM (#281939) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Mbo Oh dang! Actually, I thought the song was cute! Although he sounded NOTHING like the Elvis we all know and love. |
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21 Aug 00 - 06:54 PM (#281944) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Thomas the Rhymer "a folksinger is what I call myself when I want to end the conversation." |
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21 Aug 00 - 06:56 PM (#281945) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Mbo "What the world needs now is another folksinger, like I need a hole in my head" --Cracker |
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21 Aug 00 - 11:52 PM (#282125) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: JamesJim A folksinger is not only a "singer of folksongs," he or she is also a writer of same. Of course, this is a general statement and it doesn't mean a damned thing (except it has a lot of truth to it). Jim |
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30 Nov 00 - 04:22 PM (#349149) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: The Shambles The term 'source singer', is one that bothers me a little. It seems to used to describe a singer that is good enough to steal material from but not one that is good enough to actually listen to. |
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30 Nov 00 - 06:49 PM (#349256) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: dick greenhaus To quote the late Richard Dyer-bennett: There are folk singers that sing the songs of their culture, and there are singer who sing folk songs and there are quacks. |
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30 Nov 00 - 07:15 PM (#349266) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: Snuffy Anyone remember a schmalzy song called "The Folk Singer" from the early 60's by (I think) Tommy Roe? Made me puke every time I heard it. Wassail! V |
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30 Nov 00 - 08:06 PM (#349287) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: HARD LUCK SKONK NOT SURE HOW TO APPLY TO FOLKSING-ER, BUT DIDN'T WOODY GUTHRIE DEFINE FOLKSINGING AS FOLKS SINGING? |
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01 Dec 00 - 02:16 PM (#349726) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Folksinger? From: GUEST,Russ Here's what I said on another thread. Personally, I love the fact that "folk" is so vague. Sometimes the cat escapes the bag and acquaintances or colleagues at work learn that I am an amateur musician. "What sort of music do you do?" they ask. At that point, I must decide how long I want the ensuing conversation to be. If I want it to be short I answer "folk music." The nice thing about the term "folk music" is that most people think they have some idea what it is. Better, most people know that folk music is NOT pop, rock 'n' roll, bluegrass, rap, new age or any of the other genres they might hear on the radio or TV. Best, most people (outside this forum, of course) think they know enough about folk music to know that it is a genre that they are not very interested in. Thus, "folk music" tends to be a nice, polite conversation stopper." Sometimes the person I am talking to will say something like "Oh, you mean stuff like The Kingston Trio/Joan Baez/ (your favorite folksinger's name here) did/does?" My personal rule is that no matter whom they name, I say "Yes." That normally ends a conversation that I didn't want to get into anyway. On the other hand, if, in my judgment, the asker can handle a long conversation and discourse, and I am in the mood for such, I answer "Old Time Music." Generally nobody except the people who play it or have friends or significant others who play it have any idea what it is and it takes a while to explain it. |