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25 Oct 99 - 10:35 PM (#127997) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Bugsy I looked up the Universal Soldier in Digitrad and there appears to be a verse missing. The one that goes: But without him how could hitler have condemned them at Dachou. Without him Caeser would have stood alone. He's the one who gives his body as a weapon of the war. And without him all this killing can't go on. cheers Bugsy |
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28 Oct 99 - 05:01 AM (#128906) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Wolfgang a minor typo in Bugsy's additional verse: the place is called 'Dachau'. Wolfgang |
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28 Oct 99 - 05:06 AM (#128907) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Owlkat Okay, so it's two a.m. and I should be in bed, buuuut, I couldn't resist one parting shot. I remember singing Universal Soldier in youth group, and I think the line was... "But without them who would Hitler have commanded at Dachau". There. I'm done. G'Night. Mart. |
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28 Oct 99 - 05:39 AM (#128910) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Wolfgang Now that's interesting. "Condemned him" it is in all versions I have found in the web so far (guess they just copy from each other), but I have never really understood what (who) was meant. With "commanded" I have less difficulties to make sense. Anybody knows if Owlkat is right? Wolfgang |
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28 Oct 99 - 11:39 AM (#129020) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Marion Hi Wolfgang. I'm pretty sure that Buffy wrote it as "condemned him". And I think what she was trying to get at is that the "Universal Soldier" is both the killer and the killed - something like saying that he is 5'2" and 6'4". That doesn't make perfect sense, since it was basically civilians who were in concentration camps (this is accurate, isn't it?), but it fits in with her motif of speaking of all soldiers as one universal soldier. What I'm not sure about is the point of the whole song. For a long time I thought that the central idea was "He's the one who gives his body as a weapon of the war and without him all this killing can't go on." While I don't think it's fair to totally blame war on soldiers, it's true that if they were all conscientious objectors that there would be no war, so I could see what she was getting at. I thought the line "he's the universal soldier and he really is to blame" was not very artful or fair, but I thought that really was her point. However, I once heard her introduce this song on a video, and I reexamined the last verse, and I think her point may have been the opposite. I wonder if her main point is that soldiers are not a separate kind of being from the rest of us, nor are they the ones responsible for war; rather, war comes about because of the will of the general population and its government. Maybe the majority of the song, which seems to be blaming soldiers, was meant ironically and only the last few lines are sincere. Marion |
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28 Oct 99 - 11:54 AM (#129028) Subject: Lyr Add: MASTERS OF WAR (Bob Dylan) From: Marion PS The "Universal Soldier" always makes me think of Bob Dylan's "Masters of War"; although this song is much harsher, I find it expresses my feelings about those who instigate wars better than any other song I know.
MASTERS OF WAR
1. Come you masters of war,
2. You that never done nothin'
3. Like Judas of old,
4. You fasten all the triggers
5. You've thrown the worst fear
6. How much do I know
7. Let me ask you one question:
8. And I hope that you die, Marion |
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28 Oct 99 - 11:58 AM (#129032) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Marion sigh... the last line of the first verse should be, "I can see through your masks." And I put put all my effort into getting the line breaks right. Marion |
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28 Oct 99 - 12:32 PM (#129059) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Wolfgang Marion, I think you're right that Buffy has left her point for the last verse. And what you write about the line I have difficulties with is the only possible meaning. However, I still have doubts: "Without him how would Hitler have condemned him at Dachau" is the line from most of the websites including this song. Not extremely clear. Wolfgang |
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29 Oct 99 - 07:58 AM (#129372) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Jeri IMO, Buffy St. Marie's song blames the tools, while Dylan's Masters of War blames the wielders of tools. Also, IMO, neither song places the blame accurately. Weird tie-in between the two songs in the thread title. I beleive cough syrup with Codeine was once referred to as "GI Gin." |
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30 Oct 99 - 01:37 PM (#129858) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Bill Cameron Pardon my lack of sublety but I don't understand how anyone can filter the lyrics of a straightforward song such as "Universal Soldier", into two parts and say 'this part is ironic, but that part she really means.' For what its worth, the song says that we are all to blame for letting ourselves be used by the military/industrial/patriotic complex to promote continued violence against other people. Remember, though, this was written in 1963. Buffy Ste-Marie has come up with some pretty diverse opinions since then, and while much of her work has been powerful evocation of Native spirit, some of it has promoted that very same military etc. complex--her song "Up Where We Belong" was the theme of "An Officer and a Gentleman" fer Gawdsakes. Another more recent song "The Big Ones Get Away" empathized with the situation of small-time arms smugglers who did contract dirty work for the CIA in Central America, then took the fall when they were shot down or caught. Seems an odd spot to place one's sympathy, but that's some of the real value of her work--it's not always predictable, and it makes you think. Bill
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30 Oct 99 - 02:30 PM (#129870) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: catspaw49 Reading all of this reminds me so well of a thread we ran that also expessed some of these very same thoughts. It was also the forge, or maybe the "cat-alyst" of a close, true, and what will be a lifelong friendship between two 'Catters whose experience may have differed broadly, but who came to the same place these 30 or so years later. It was a great thread,in a lot of other ways too. As one of the two involved, I'm confident that the other, who is busy right now, would also say the same. If you want, go back and check it out. Here's an infamous Blue Clicky Thing. Spaw |
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17 Jul 00 - 07:37 PM (#259583) Subject: Universal soldier: Buffy's lyrics v. others From: Woodstock Here's a curve ball for y'all and a comment. In a version I've heard there is the line "Without him how could Hitler have condemned him at De Vaul." It is a version sung by Donovan, I think about 1965. Any thoughts of the deriviation of "De Vaul?" Also, is everyone sure the line is "condemned him" or is it "condemned them" at Dachau?
Also, I was interested at everyone's thoughts about Buffy's meaning and purpose, particularly in the last lines "He's the US and he really ... ."I once heard Don McLean answer a question about "American Pie" and what all the lyrics meant.
He said something like, "They don't mean anything in particular" (tounge approaching cheek, I'm sure). But maybe he was suggesting what every artist likes to believe about his or her work: Rather than TELLING us something, maybe a song like US should make us examine our own stand on such as war, the military and those who serve.
If that meaning changes over time, so be it. In which case, what Buffy meant to say isn't really important. I wonder if Buffy would much rather have us say what her words mean to each of us rather than to what SHE meant by them. I think Bill Cameron's comment was getting us to this point.
Thanks y'all. |
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17 Jul 00 - 09:07 PM (#259652) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Mrrzy Oops, hope mine doesn't post repeatedly. Anyway, I learned it with condemned at Dachau too. I also believe that it was mostly civilians in most concentration camps - I think with men of military age it was a different fate. Also, I always took the meaning of Universal Soldier to be that all death in war is the same death, but I took the 5'2 and 6'4 not to mean he could be victim or killer, but that he could be of any shape/color/creed (he's a Catholic, a Hindu, an atheist, a Jain...), if he's a soldier, he is War, which means Death. And it is as War that "he really is to blame" - as the personification of War, at least. I don't have anything against Death, it's all part of life, but I do have strong objections to War. |
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17 Jul 00 - 09:30 PM (#259676) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: rangeroger Page 22 of the Buffy Sainte-Marie songbook shows the line as "condemned him at Dachau".And in cod'ine it shows the line as "and it's reel and it's real one more time".It uses both spellings. rr |
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18 Jul 00 - 02:52 AM (#259819) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Merry Hey, rangeroger, thanks for the songbook tip. My friends and I have been wondering for a couple of years now about that line, and the Internet didn't help - we even found a version "condemned him at Labau". However, it doesn't make a lot of sense like that, either. Hitler, OK, Dachau, but who was condemned? And it doesn't seem to link to the following line ("without him Caesar would have stood alone" - that's my favourite line of the song, both as words and sound, at least in the Donovan version, I only heard a B. StMarie recording once).
There is another "miss" in the last verse, the database text is:
"He's the universal soldier and he is really is to blame The third line is actually: "They come from here and there and you and me and brothers, can't you see" The meaning is rather obvious, Woodstock, something like "today - in a democratic society - soldiers are receiving orders not from "far away" dictators/emperors, but from "here and there" ordinary people like "you and me"" implying that it's in our power - and it's our responsability - to give the right orders. OK, it sounds pathetic that way... But that's why they write poetry in the end - a decent way to say things that would sound pathetic in every day speech (even non-pidgin every day speech - if anyone gets my point, try to translate this in English). |
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18 Jul 00 - 03:22 AM (#259825) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Merry Here's a working link to a text closest to what I hear on tape (Donovan version): |
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18 Jul 00 - 05:36 AM (#259851) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: GMT I came across the Labau version as well at Danmans tabs. The Renegade Olga has Dachau and both were transcribed by the same chap. I guess we have a bit of a Chinese whisper going on. Cheers Gary |
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04 Oct 00 - 05:55 PM (#312252) Subject: Lyric Corr: Universal Soldier ^^ From: GUEST,Liland The Digitrad has Buffy singing "a Catholic and a Jane," — that last word definitely should be "Jain", not "Jane"; and if memory serves me right (been awhile since I heard her) the whole phrase should be "a Catholic, a Jain,"... with "Catholic" sung trisyllabically, "Cath-o-lic". Liland (Baptist, but never in the military) ^^ |
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04 Oct 00 - 06:57 PM (#312314) Subject: RE: Lyric Corr: Universal Soldier From: Joe Offer There's one more verse, which I also submitted to the Digital Tradition: But without him how could Hitler have condemned him at Dachau,-Joe Offer-^^ |
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04 Oct 00 - 07:51 PM (#312360) Subject: RE: Lyric Corr: Universal Soldier From: Robo Is it Dachau or the Halle? |
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04 Oct 00 - 08:49 PM (#312398) Subject: RE: Lyric Corr: Universal Soldier From: Joe Offer Hi, Rob - I checked in Sing Out! Reprints and on the Buffy Sainte-Marie recording, and it's "Dachau" on both. -Joe Offer- |
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04 Oct 00 - 09:08 PM (#312408) Subject: RE: Lyric Corr: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,Joerg This reminds me of a discussion I had about 20 years ago (I am aware that you can now figure out that I'm over 20 - more and more I'm giving myself away...) which became ever more impassionate as it went on (I was younger then and still subject to passion ;-). What about the last verse? Is it
... and he really is to blame. Or is it
... and he really is to blame. The first version is how the lyrics of this song were first published (i.e. made known to some really large audience who never listened to the song) in Germany. You see the difference: In the first version the soldier is to blame for "you and me" not being brothers, in the second version "you and me" are to blame for also giving him his orders. That's some difference that seems a little big to me. I supported the second version. Who was right? Joerg |
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04 Oct 00 - 11:02 PM (#312490) Subject: RE: Lyric Corr: Universal Soldier From: bseed(charleskratz) That verse is He's the universal soldier, and he really is to blame; His orders come from far away no more. They come from him and you and me, and brothers, can't you see, That's not the way to put an end to war. --seed |
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05 Oct 00 - 05:46 PM (#313052) Subject: RE: Lyric Corr: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,Liland I've always thought it was Dachau, and that the part Joerg asked about was as BSedd(Charles Kratz) gave it. Certainly the blame for the orders is being ascribed to *us* (including Buffy). Liland |
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05 Oct 00 - 06:43 PM (#313093) Subject: RE: Lyric Corr: Universal Soldier From: Joe Offer I looked at Sing Out's reprints and listened to 1964 and 1996 recordings of the song from Sainte-Marie, and came up with what I think is a pretty good composite. I gave preference to the earlier version, and put Buffy's 1996 additions in parentheses. Here's what I came up with: UNIVERSAL SOLDIERI guess I wouldn't have submitted a change to the database if it were just a matter of the spelling of "Jain," but I thought it was worthwhile to add the "Dachau" verse. I never know what the heck to do with punctuation in songs, and I don't get too concerned about it. I tend to leave out the commas, semicolons, and periods at the ends of lines; but I think question marks can be important, and commas in the middle of lines, and quotation marks. And if lyrics have a Harvard comma in them, you can guess a Catholic school graduate might have done the typing - the nuns pounded Harvard commas into our skulls. -Joe Offer- Click here for what Harvard says about commas. I may no longer believe a good bit of what the nuns taught me, but I still believe in Harvard commas. |
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05 Oct 00 - 07:01 PM (#313104) Subject: RE: Lyric Corr: Universal Soldier From: catspaw49 Well Joe, thanks for the post. I've been thinking ever since Seed posted that verse that he was right although I've become used to "here and there and you and me and brothers can't you see." The "real" lyric got lost somewhere to me a long time ago....But it is more powerful in an odd way. It can be sung with an accusatory anger at all, with a touch of sadness...if that makes any sense. Spaw |
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06 Oct 00 - 03:42 PM (#313694) Subject: RE: Lyric Corr: Universal Soldier From: Robo My thanks, too, Joe! |
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11 Dec 07 - 07:07 PM (#2213459) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: GUEST,Justin I know this thread is ridiculously old, but for people who stumble across it and wonder ... Yes, Buffy Sainte-Marie says "Dachau". The reason is obvious. However, Donovan Leitch says Liebau. (The proper pronunciation of this word would be "LEE-bow", but that doesn't fit the rhythm, and besides, most people who don't speak German wouldn't pronounce it that way anyways.) Liebau is the old German name for the Polish town Lubawka. During the Nazi years, the Hitler Youth used a facility near Lubawka (built in preparation for the Berlin Olympics) as a training and recreational facility. There was also a satellite labor camp there during the war. Take your pick on which one Donavan is referring to -- the concentration camp is more true to Sainte-Marie's original, but the Hitler Youth facility seems to fit more with the rest of the song. |
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12 Dec 07 - 08:08 AM (#2213744) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: GUEST,Susanne (skw, away from home) Thanks, Justin. I've wondered half my life what exactly Donovan was singing but never thought to check for a different name. Next question: Why did D. change the term? |
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12 Dec 07 - 08:35 AM (#2213757) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: GUEST,c.g. he's a Catholic, a Hindu, an atheist, a Jain.. . I thought Jains were totally against all killing? They are, I believe, so against killing that they try not to kill even an insect by accident. A Jain soldier is an therefore an impossibility. It's not a very good song, it's not very internally consistent, but at the time it came out it felt right and it felt important. |
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12 Dec 07 - 09:34 AM (#2213788) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: GUEST,Greg B The song is a great illustration that shallow thinking and moral absolutism was soley the province of the 'love it or leave it' types during the period. |
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12 Dec 07 - 09:34 AM (#2213790) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: GUEST,Greg B I meant 'wasn't soley the province' above. |
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12 Dec 07 - 01:32 PM (#2213936) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: McGrath of Harlow I imagine there are Jains who don't live up to their religion, the same way there are Christians. After all, wasn't Nixon supposed to be some kind of a Quaker? (I think you probably meant "solely the province", Greg B) |
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12 Dec 07 - 05:58 PM (#2214111) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: GUEST I always thought that the Universal solder was in fact as it says on the tin. You and me!. I thought (even when I had the ability to think before age got me by the accidentals) that WE, YOU and ME, US. We were the universal soldiers. We did the voting, we did the acceptance, we did the wepons manufacture, we paid the taxes, some of "we" did the shooting etc etc. The "ah but" brigade who want to be democratic only when the vote goes their way, may argue this. But in the 60's (when I was old enough to vote) I was violently against violence. "Kill the Warmongers, Smash violence" I used to chant. Simple people, Simple times. Ex Mudacatter. |
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14 Feb 08 - 07:51 PM (#2262708) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: GUEST "it's not very internally consistent" Is it rather externally consistent? Windbag. |
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15 Feb 08 - 12:03 PM (#2263191) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: mike gouthro While "condemned HIM at Dachau" may be the official lyric in Universal Soldier, I listened last night and what I think I hear is "condemned 'em at Dachau", which would make more sense than "HIM". |
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15 Feb 08 - 05:24 PM (#2263449) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: GUEST I always thought it was "condemned them" |
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15 Feb 08 - 05:54 PM (#2263475) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Rumncoke Donovan, on the LP 'strangers and cousens' sings Liebau, not Dachau. I just put it on the turntable. |
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15 Feb 08 - 08:51 PM (#2263562) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Peace The lyrics in question from her official site: "But without him how would Hitler have condemned him at Dachau" I never did sing it like that. Always 'them' at Dachau. Live and learn. |
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16 Feb 08 - 02:59 AM (#2263650) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Slag It's like, "What part of 'Universal' don't you understand?": premise of the song being that the soldier, regardless of whose army he belongs to is the key component in the ability to make war. What an ideal world it would be without him. In reality the soldier has a gun pointed at his back making sure he points his gun to the guy in front of him. It the rock and a hard place. And what do you do about a group of *$*&@! who collude together to make war against you whether you care for war or not? Mass graveyard are filled with the bones of those who didn't want someone else's war. What are you going to do? And speaking of codeine (one of the few things I have that counters chronic migraine headaches) does anybody remember Andy Warhol's group? I think they were named The Plastic Inevitables. One of the songs off the Banana Album (remember the zipper? Is that right?) was Heroine. And then there was a song I believe was called Cocaine Katie and the only line from it I remember was "...Cocaine Katie was a weird old lady..." I'm shootin' from the hip on these. I haven't tried to look them up. How's YOUR memory? |
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16 Feb 08 - 02:11 PM (#2263948) Subject: RE: Universal soldier and Codine From: Peace "How's YOUR memory [for song lyrics]?" Excellent when I have Mr Google. The shits when I don't. |
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12 Nov 11 - 03:13 PM (#3255745) Subject: RE: Universal Soldier + Cod'ine (Buffy Sainte-Marie) From: GUEST,Jasper Feeling sad that I've only just found this thread - though I was 17 when Buffy St. Marie wrote Universal Soldier in '64 - first heard it sung by Donovan the next year and have known the lyrics ever since. I looked it up this evening to show to a Kenyan lodger (aged 37) who was so moved he's going to pass it on widely back home. Unlike many of your contributors, I never managed to buy Buffy's records, but have searched without luck for more on her song with these lyrics: Oh oh oh Freedom, Oh oh Freedom, Oh oh oh Freedom, I love thee And before I'll be a slave, I'll be buried in my grave And go home to my fathers And be free If ANYONE can give me any help in finding Buffy singing this song, in the wonderful early period when her voice was so high and clear and beautiful, I'd be thrilled. (I used to sing it often when driving alone, back in the days when my voice could still covered the range) If 'PEACE' still follows this thread, she might know (though as her postings are 3 years ago now, I'll probably be out of luck!) |
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12 Nov 11 - 04:06 PM (#3255778) Subject: RE: Universal Soldier + Cod'ine (Buffy Sainte-Marie) From: Mick Pearce (MCP) The song is Oh Freedom (see this wikipedia article for some lyrics: Oh Freedom). The song seems to have been chiefly associated with Odetta (though Joan Baez certainly also sang it). I've looked through a Buffy discography up to the 90s and it doesn't seem to be listed there. That doesn't mean she didn't do it though. (I also can't find any lyrics listed using home to my fathers rather than home to my Lord). Mick |
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13 Jan 12 - 03:50 AM (#3289769) Subject: First Aid kit- Universal soldier From: skarpi young girls singing and playing . call them self First Aid Kid ..good job ..I like them well . Click here kv Skarpi |
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13 Jan 12 - 04:14 AM (#3289774) Subject: RE: First Aid kit- Universal soldier From: Keith A of Hertford Thanks Skarpi for a lovely start to my day. |
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13 Jan 12 - 04:38 AM (#3289783) Subject: RE: First Aid kit- Universal soldier From: quokka Thank you so much Skarpi!!! Don't know why it wouldn't load for me, I got it fine on Facebook :-) Also check out 'The Lions Roar' and their new song 'Emmylou', a tribute to Emmy and Gram and June and Johnny, just absolutely beautiful harmonies and lyrics :-) Cheers |
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30 May 22 - 10:19 PM (#4142943) Subject: RE: Lyric Corr: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,henryp Juliette Jagger of Canada's National Music Centre's Amplify May 3 2019 When the idea for “Universal Soldier” first entered Sainte-Marie’s mind, she was hauled up at San Francisco International Airport. The year was 1963; Kennedy was president, the impending threat of the Cold War weighed heavy on the psyche of the nation, and the U.S. had been in Vietnam for eight years at that point. Promises of a golden age had yet to materialize for America, and the youth of the day, suspicious that the reports being fed to them by the news media were nothing but a ruse, had developed a deep mistrust of government. “I had been traveling from Mexico to Toronto and had a layover in San Francisco,” recalls Sainte-Marie. “In the middle of the night a group of medics came into the airport wheeling wounded soldiers and we got to talking. I asked one of them if there really was a war in Vietnam because the politicians at home were saying there wasn’t one. The medics assured me there was indeed a huge war going on. I started writing the song in the airport and on the plane, and I finished it in the basement of the Purple Onion in Toronto.” “In those days, we hung out in coffee houses and people talked, discussed, shared, discovered, sang and listened when it came to contemporary issues,” says Sainte-Marie. “Because of what was going on back then, a lot of people adopted ‘Universal Soldier’ as an anti-Vietnam anthem. But, the song isn’t just about Vietnam; it’s about all wars and our own individual and collective involvement in them.” |
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31 May 22 - 12:09 PM (#4143008) Subject: RE: Discussion: Universal Soldier From: Stringsinger If there is any criticism of the song that makes sense to me is that it is generalized and not specific to be like say "Johnny I Hardly Knew Ya" or other powerful anti-war statements like Eric Bogle's "The Band Played Waltzing Mathilda". The song is generalized such as Dylan's "Masters of War" but in the latter case very prescient right now. Another powerful anti-war song is "Waist Deep in the Big Muddy" as analogue of the Vietnam War. |
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31 May 22 - 12:58 PM (#4143015) Subject: RE: Discussion: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,henryp Buffy St Marie did write a later song based on specific characters. It's very powerful too. Moratorium |
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23 Sep 22 - 12:35 AM (#4153366) Subject: RE: Discussion: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,individual responsibility Interesting that Buffy said the song is about individual responsibility. Jordan Peteson says exactly the same thing, e.g. that the horrors of Hitler, Stalin, etc were not about these leaders' charisma but about the lack of individual responsibility; he always emphasizes individual responsibility over group identification (his overriding political philosophy). Two very different people, but the elevated spirit (Buffy) and the psychologist/intellectual reached the same conclusion! |
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23 Sep 22 - 03:20 AM (#4153371) Subject: RE: Discussion: Universal Soldier From: Dave Hanson Donovan used Liebau instead of Dachau so as not to upset his German fans. Dave H |
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23 Sep 22 - 03:01 PM (#4153429) Subject: RE: Discussion: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,meself Strikes me as a rather unsatisfactory 'conclusion' - a bit like 'the answer is blowin' in the wind' ... or 'oh, well - what can ya do?' (i.e., don't go after the powers-that-be to try to stop war; try to make yourself a better person instead). And 'emphasiz[ing] individual responsibility over group identification' was probably not even novel back when Jesus was doing it ..... |
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23 Sep 22 - 03:51 PM (#4153431) Subject: RE: Discussion: Universal Soldier From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler Reading this thread for the first time and it occurred to me as follows:- Hitler condemned the universal soldier by making him follow orders. Most of us are familiar with the excuse "I was just following orders", which is not an excuse. Robin. |
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23 Sep 22 - 08:36 PM (#4153464) Subject: RE: Discussion: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,meself Always found that a remarkably awkward line - "But without him how would Hitler have condemned him [them?] at Dachau" - and could never for the life of me imagine why Buffy let it go. I always assumed, though, that it means that Hitler was able to 'condemn' to death the inmates of Dachau because so many 'universal soldiers' were willing to do their part by carrying out his orders. |
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24 Sep 22 - 03:56 AM (#4153474) Subject: RE: Discussion: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,The Sandman But Universal Soldier is still a good song, it is thought provoking, EVEN if i has one or two weaknesses |
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24 Sep 22 - 12:03 PM (#4153515) Subject: RE: Discussion: Universal Soldier From: GUEST,meself Definitely a powerful song, and thought-provoking - and as such, worthy of discussion. |