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07 Oct 00 - 01:50 AM (#313978) Subject: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo With Yule/Xmas coming along at full throttle, I thought this might be the year I'd actually figure out how to sing Deck the Halls in Welsh. Any Mudcatters know: 1) The Welsh text, if any, underlying the customary English "Deck the Halls" (e.g. the one in the Digitrad that is not a parody)? 2) The Welsh text underlying what the Oxford Book of Carols gives as "All ye mountains, praise the Lord"? 3) Other Welsh texts for the tune (Nos Galan)? Preferably with English glosses, as my Welsh is minimal. Liland PS I tried putting Nos Galan in the Digitrad Search box with no results. |
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07 Oct 00 - 01:52 AM (#313980) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo I think it was actually the derivation of "schmuck" in another thread that made me think to ask about this. Odd how the human mind works. Liland |
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07 Oct 00 - 02:57 AM (#313996) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Liz the Squeak I have them in a UK book called the National Songbook. Used to be a must in schools, alas, jingoism triumphed over tradition and it was withdrawn. I can do them if you want, Pmail me your address and I can do them for you, unless you are likely to be at Llanstock, where I can give you a copy..... The words in Welsh are basically the proper ones in English, soon the hoar old year will leave us..... etc. Fa la la la la is the same in Welsh as English.... LTS |
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07 Oct 00 - 07:27 AM (#314039) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: AllisonA(Animaterra) LTS- share them here, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease??? |
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07 Oct 00 - 11:25 AM (#314116) Subject: Lyr Add: NOS GALAN (Welsh carol) From: Liz the Squeak All right, here they are, they are the ones from the aforementioned National Songbook, a book that is not ashamed to put The Minstrel Boy, Will ye no come back again and God save the King (yes the book is that old) all in one volume!!
NOS GALAN LTS Click to play |
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07 Oct 00 - 01:11 PM (#314154) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales I'm not sure if I misunderstood what Liz was trying to say but ... the Welsh words aren't a translation of the English. Nos Galan is a harp tune to which the Welsh would sing a hodge-podge of verses. The ones above are those ususally sung over the Christmas holidays, remembering, of course, that the Welsh didn't do much with Christmas but New Year's Eve (Nos Galan) was the big night. I thought there already was a thread on this as I remember saying much of this before. Perhaps it was on a Usenet group. Anyway, ... What little research has been done on Deck the Halls leads Phyllis Kinney, one of our experts in the field, to believe that the English words were composed by a Welsh American. It certainly appeared in the States long before appearing in the UK, but the author of the words obviously understood the Welsh traditions of decking halls, etc. as well as knowing the tune well. Ah, now I remember. This came up in private correspondence when someone was looking for pagan songs to sing and was convinced that Deck the Halls was ancient. Which it ain't. Well, the tune is old, but not that old... Anyway, it is strictly speaking a New Year's piece set to a well-known dance/harp tune. Hope that's of interest. sian |
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07 Oct 00 - 02:12 PM (#314192) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Liz the Squeak The Oxford Book of Carols version is the Christianised set, the English translation of the welsh above is the more secular version. Basically you are singing about the new year coming and how you hope that you don't regret the one just gone, and if you greet the new one singing, you should have a happy new year - start as you mean to go on sort of thing..... Vs 3 says not to ponder on future sadness or anxious care, but to fill the mead cup and decorate the house. It doesn't mention any deity, it is a damn fine tune and everyone can sing fal la la no matter how drunk they are!! To the best of my knowledge, this mead drinking, year welcoming version is the elder of the two, Deck the halls being definately USA in origins. I'm happy to be corrected if that be the case. LTS |
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07 Oct 00 - 06:33 PM (#314342) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo Thanks to all of you who have contributed so far. I will have to try to translate the Welsh that Liz the Squeak sent to see to what extent it appears to be reflected in the various English and Esperanto versions I have. I must point out, however, that I had to smile when I read Liz's comment (early on) that The words in Welsh are basically the proper ones in English,as no one has ever sung that line in my hearing (nor do I think you could get them to; hoar is one of those unfortunate homophones, at least hereabouts). The version we sing here puts the New Year part "Fast away the old year passes, ... Hail the new, ye lads and lasses". Once again, thanks! And Liz, I will PM you, but re: Lyngham, I think. Liland |
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09 Oct 00 - 11:44 AM (#314716) Subject: Lyr Add: NOS GALAN & Enlish translation From: sian, west wales Here's a translation of the above words. I'r helbulus oer yw'r biliau Sydd yn dyfod yn y Gwyliau, Gwrando bregeth mewn un pennill, Byth na waria fwy na'th ennill To the troubled cold (i.e. chilling) are the bills Which come during the holidays; Listening to a sermon in one verse; Spending more than you earn. (I don't think I did this verse very well. s,ww) Oer yw'r eira ar Eryi, Er fod gwrthban gwlanen arni, Oer yw'r bobol na ofalan', Gwrdd a'u gilydd ar Nos Galan, Cold is the snow on Snowdon, Although it wears a woolen blanket, Cold are the people who don't take care To meet each other on New Year's Eve. Remember, there was/is a tradition of taking a tune and singing a lot of different verses to it, for fun. Similar to a lot of campfire songs we used to sing at camp. sian |
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09 Oct 00 - 02:02 PM (#314808) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,guest delia |
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09 Oct 00 - 04:57 PM (#314964) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo guest delia, did you mean to post something? If so, try again. Liland |
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09 Oct 00 - 05:39 PM (#315002) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Liz the Squeak That's what hoar means - cold as in hoar frost. A hoar frost is one of those that you very rarely get in the city, one where every leaf has an edge of frost, and it looks like someone sprinkled sugar on the grass. Each blade has a crisp white edge, and the spider webs are like spun icicles, the sort of day that makes your breath inwards catch in your throat, and every breath outwards is accompanied by a plume of vapour.... the sky is uniformly grey or blue glass, and the road under your footfalls goes spang..... heck I miss a good frost! LTS |
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09 Oct 00 - 05:49 PM (#315016) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,Liland "That's what hoar means - cold as in hoar frost. A hoar frost is one of those that you very rarely get in the city,..." Which helps explain why I would be leery of singing it that way; cityfolk would tend to hear "whore frost". Must say, though, you do make a good frost sound like fun. Where did they all go? Global warming? |
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09 Oct 00 - 05:54 PM (#315023) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Liz the Squeak More like urban warming - they still happen in my home town, and just down the road. We even had one in East Ham about 5 years back. Beautiful it was. I still wore my sandals though. One of those days that is too beautiful to stay in during, but too cold to walk around without your eyes/ears/nose running, or that sudden urge that the cold brings on and you realise you can't undo your trousers with your gloves on...... LTS |
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30 Nov 00 - 06:53 AM (#348782) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: AllisonA(Animaterra) A timely refresher |
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30 Nov 00 - 08:37 AM (#348835) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Michael in Swansea Try here Mike |
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30 Nov 00 - 09:10 AM (#348846) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: guinnesschik This thread has given me the chills. *LOL* Must get coffee... |
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30 Nov 00 - 04:00 PM (#349136) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Penny S. Couple of weird hoar frost things I've seen once and never again, and both times without a camera. One morning I went down to the front door, and found that I'd left the little cover off the keyhole, and frost had grown in to the house, about half an inch long or more. And another time, after a wet spell, a brick wall had grown curly hair of frost along the top as the water expanded from the pores. I need a good frost. Without it, I don't get set up for the year! Penny |
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30 Nov 00 - 04:34 PM (#349157) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Come on over, Penny- the frost has set in for the winter here in New England! |
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06 Oct 01 - 07:19 PM (#566431) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo Well, I just posted the Welsh text Liz the Squeak provided above in La Lilandejo, as well as six stanzas in (you guessed it) Esperanto. Enjoy. Liland |
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07 Oct 01 - 04:00 AM (#566649) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Liz the Squeak Esperanto?? Ye Gods - how do all the falalalala's come out??? We've had a couple of misty moisty mornings here in downtown East Ham, making the cobwebs into diamond fairy cloaks, but no frost yet... Hopefully my little friend Roger the Penguin will tell me when he's had a frost so we can go sloe picking again..... So more sloe gin for Llanstock III! LTS |
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07 Oct 01 - 04:33 AM (#566655) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Skipper Jack The tune for Nos Galan is called "Dawns Flodau Nantgarw" (Nantgarw Floral Dance). Which suggests to me that the the original tune may have had nothing to do with the festive season?
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07 Oct 01 - 05:13 AM (#566661) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: pavane East Ham eh? I was born and brought up in Plashet Grove. Escaped many years ago, tho (and now in Wales) |
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08 Oct 01 - 01:19 AM (#567230) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo LTS: Esperanto?? Ye Gods - how do all the falalalala's come out??? Liland: Actually, Liz, I silently corrected your "falalalala's" in the Welsh version, since you had all four sets (per stanza) the same, while the tune requires that the third set be different. (I don't know if the error was yours or the National Songbook's, but either way I corrected it. And of course the "falalalala's" come out the same in Esperanto as in English (and probably about the same as in Welsh, but see my quibble infra...) Quibble: I thought in Welsh "fa" was supposed to be written "ffa", and that "fa" should be pronounced "va". What gives here? Does the Cymraeg-singing Cymro actually sing "Va la la la la" or did the National Songbook misspell all those "ffal's"? Skipper Jack: The tune for Nos Galan is called "Dawns Flodau Nantgarw" (Nantgarw Floral Dance)... Liland: On what authority to you claim that "Dawns Flodau Nantgarw" is the proper name of the tune? As distinct, that is, from merely the incipit of another set of lyrics? Do you have any evidence that the one is earlier than the other? None of the sites a Google Search for "Dawns Flodau Nantgarw" turns up appears to address the issue (though I'll admit my Welsh is inoperable; or do I mean inoperative?). Liland |
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08 Oct 01 - 02:04 AM (#567241) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Liz the Squeak I've just beaten it out - there are the same number of falalalalalalalala in all of them! Unless you've actually got a different tune? The tune in the book I have, and incidentally the one I learned aged 8 in recorder lessons, is called Nos Galan, nothing about flowers or dances or anything... I thing there may be a crossed purpose here. LTS |
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08 Oct 01 - 02:12 AM (#567245) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo Same number of falala's in each, but grouped differently in the third set. The first, second and fourth sets in each stanza go: fa la la la la - la la la la whereas the third set goes: fa la la - la la la - la la la. See what I mean? I agree about the tune name, I have no idea what Skipper Jack is talking about; I have always seen the tune called "Nos Galan" (which, of course, is simply Welsh for "Sylvester"). But then, I have no idea what tune "Dawns Flodau Nantgarw" uses, and if it is the same as what I call "Nos Galan" then there's a chance it is the earlier title. But Skipper Jack didn't cite any evidence, just stated it as fact, which I find unconvincing. Liland |
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08 Oct 01 - 04:17 AM (#567279) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Skipper Jack Re: "Dawns Flodau Nantgarw". I can only refer one to a vinyl record that I have of Welsh Folk Dance music. It is played by a band of musicians under the leadership of Pat Shaw who collected most of the tunes (from where I know not?) As I said the track on this record which refers to the tune "Nos Galan" is entitled "Dawns Flodau Nantgarw. Another Welsh folk group at the time was Pedwar Yn Y Bar who featured this tune on their recording, but under the title of "Nos Galan". Maybe one can find an answer at The Welsh Folk Museum, at St Fagins in Cardiff? Nantgarw is a village North of Cardiff. |
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08 Oct 01 - 04:25 AM (#567281) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales I'm at work so can't check the book "Blodau'r Grug" (anyway, I think I've lent it to someone...) This tune is the first in the book,and I'm pretty sure that it's titled Nos Galan. However, again working from memory, I think the actual *dance* that is commonly done to this tune is "Dawns Flodau Nantgarw" - the Flower Dance of Nantgarw. Nantgarw being a small village north of Cardiff where a lot of dances were 'saved' thanks to the memory of one old woman. sian |
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08 Oct 01 - 05:06 AM (#567291) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Skipper Jack Aha! On taking a closer look at the record of Welsh Folk Dance Music. I see that the particular track does mention "Nos Galan, Glanbargoed, Llwytcoed" That suggests to me that the tune is "Nos Galan" and that it was collected at Glanbargoed, and that "Dawns Flodau Nantgarw" is the name of the dance and not the tune. Mystery solved? My thanks to Sian,West Wales, for putting me on the trail.
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08 Oct 01 - 05:38 AM (#567298) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales You're welcome, blodyn! sian |
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08 Oct 01 - 06:22 PM (#567733) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo So (thank ye both) it looks like "Nos Galan" is the primary tune name after all, and certainly the name itself indicates a relationship to the Sylvester celebrations. Liz and I are right. - Liland |
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08 Oct 01 - 08:02 PM (#567817) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Nos Galen was published in "British Harmony," 1781, John Parry, as one of 42 tunes with Welsh titles. Some claim great antiquity for the tune, but no supporting evidence. It could have other names (See Skipper Jack). http:// web.ukonline.co.uk/mustrad/articles/kid_txt2.htm Also in Welsh, the Night of the Winter Calends (Halloween) is called Nos Galen gaeof. Without seeing Parry's book, I don't know if the tune is the same as "Deck the Halls." No lyrics are given. |
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08 Oct 01 - 10:15 PM (#567899) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo I was born in 1954. 1781 is great antiquity! Liland |
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08 Oct 01 - 11:44 PM (#567956) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) The antiquity I found (probably nonsense) related to the year 1000! Now that's real anti-que-ity. There are no written records of Welsh song before the 17th Century according to one site I found. |
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08 Oct 01 - 11:50 PM (#567960) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo Well, maybe it's of Mandan Indian origin. That would be newsworthy. Liland |
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09 Oct 01 - 01:49 AM (#567995) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Liz the Squeak Manitas had to do a Welsh gig once. There only appeared to be 6 tunes that are actually Welsh, the others just had Welsh names... and 3 of those 6 were adapted to become anglicised hymn tunes!! LTS |
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09 Oct 01 - 04:35 AM (#568023) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales It's Nos GALAN and Noson GalAN GAEAF, just to get the spellings correct. (Although orthography prior to the 19th C. is, umm, fluid, shall we say.) Calan is from the same root as Calendar, and every month has a 'calan' (the first day of each month. So May Day is Calan Mai. The tune IS Nos Galan, honest it is. And there are a fair few number of Welsh tunes - certainly more than 6, although that 6 (and other single digit numbers) is tossed around a lot. Obviously this is modified by some other thread which questions how specific you can be with any British Isles tune; the original of Irish Washerwoman was written by a Welshman for Eliz.I , for instance, but no one considers it Welsh ... It also seems to be everyone's default position that, if a tune has a Welsh name and an English name, it must be the *Welsh* that 'borrowed' it. Having said that, there are a lot of imported tunes in Wales - including a large number of our Plygain carols - but then a lot of traditional tunes were written to suit specific Welsh poetic metres so *aren't* adopted from elsewhere. Dicho is right about the 1000 yrs probably being nonsense - as far as tunes are concerned, anyway. There are some manuscripts around from the 16th century but most collections are from the 18th C. I don't think any books which 'married' tunes with words came out until the 19th C. sian |
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09 Oct 01 - 06:19 AM (#568053) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales Skipper Jack, I just looked at your message again in which you said "Nos Galan, Glanbargoed, Llwytcoed" That suggests to me that the tune is "Nos Galan" and that it was collected at Glanbargoed, " Sorry - a bit more on that ... I'm pretty sure that Nos Galan, Glanbargoed and Llwytcoed are three separate tunes that are played in a series (with a return to Nos Galan at the end) thus serving as a full set for Dawns Blodau Nantgarw. I know that, in Blodau'r Grug, Nos Galan is one of three - I can't just remember if G & Ll. are the other two. Liland, in Welsh texts we do use Ffa (which only co-incidentally means 'beans') but who's gonna quibble when God gave us 'cut-and-paste'? But I'm VERY impressed that you understand Cymro/Cymraeg/Cymreig ! There's many as don't! The local supermarket advertises Welsh speaking cheese ... sian |
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09 Oct 01 - 01:40 PM (#568314) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Sian, the website I gave has a list of references; the first that mentions "words" is dated 1800, so you are correct. I would appreciate it if you would look at this site and tell me what you think of its reliability- it looks pretty good to me but I am ignorant on this subject. I got the Calends Nos Galen name from a site on Halloween; often these write-ups have errors. |
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09 Oct 01 - 04:25 PM (#568441) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales Dicho, great stuff! Can't get back to it's home page, but it looks like the entry from Groves? If so, the friend, Phyllis, who I mentioned in my earliest message here has just rewritten the Wales entry ... but Ithink only to update it. She's also in the process of writing the first English language history of Welsh folk music since 1935. University of Wales Press is breathing down her neck for it, so I'm hoping it will be published ... Christmas next year maybe? She's 79, so she doesn't move as fast as she once did ... but I think she's up to the mid 1800s! Sian |
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09 Oct 01 - 04:45 PM (#568455) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Groves is right. If your friend Phyllis is given a set of Groves, you will be a favored man if you can beg, borrow or steal the use of it. |
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10 Oct 01 - 04:54 AM (#568808) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales Phyllis was given a set of Groves as a birthday present on the Welsh equivalent of "This is Your Life" last year. She nearly fainted! And I'm sure that getting the use of it might make me a happy man, but I'm quite happy being a woman at present ... 8-} sian |
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10 Oct 01 - 03:59 PM (#569209) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Skipper Jack Thank you Sian. You are probably right. Isn't it amazing how a seemingly simple request can open up such an intellectual discussion and it all started with Fa-la-la-la, la-la-la.!!!
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10 Oct 01 - 05:19 PM (#569270) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo Actually, I don't know the meaning of "Cymreig" (the triplet I claimed was "Cymro-Cymru-Cymraeg", though both "Cymraeg" and "Cymreig" look to me like they're probably best pronounced roughly "come Reich", FWTW) and I can't imagine what "Welsh-speaking cheese" is. Is it edible or just audible? ;-) BTW I just posted an Esperanto movement song to "Men of Harlech" and should have one of you vet my spelling of the tune name (I gave it a Welsh name). Hang on a minute while I go get a link. Liland |
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10 Oct 01 - 05:23 PM (#569276) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo Here's the link Al la Esperantistaro by F J West and the tune name Rhyvelgyrch gwyr Harlech. (This is from Kantaro Esperanta, 1926, edited by Montagu Christie Butler. Not sure how competent Butler was in Welsh... Liland |
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10 Oct 01 - 11:09 PM (#569494) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Crane Driver John Kirkpatrick, on his midwinter album "Wassail", does a set of 'three terrific old dance tunes that were given new English words during the nineteenth century' {quote}. The first is 'The Nantgarw Flower Dance' which was 'traditionally done in Wales on New Year's Eve, and is also known as "Nos Galan", which means "New Year's Eve" in the Welsh language.' {quote again} Does that make anything clearer? Nos dda! |
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11 Oct 01 - 05:08 AM (#569619) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales I'm afraid it's a case of not believing everything you read on an album cover. Sorry, but I've phoned around to people who, literally, wrote the book on the music side of this (Meredydd Evans and Phyllis Kinney) and the DANCE is Dawns Flodau Nantgarw and the TUNE is Nos Galan. I used to be a member of the Welsh Folk Dance Soc. as well - and I still reckon this is right. Dicho, Phyl says that the first ever published words were in Edward Jones' (Bardd y Brenin - the King's Bard) collection, Musical And Poetic Relicks of the Welsh Bards, 1784, but had nothing to do with the Christmas/New Year Season. Mered (who's the text expert) thinks that EJ may have written them himself, the English being a pretty direct translation of the Welsh: O how soft my fair one's bosom... John Parry, Ruabon, also printed the TUNE only in his British Harmony, and possibly in an earlier "A Collection of Welsh, English and Scottish Airs" in 1761. There is also a reference to a tune "New Year's Day" in a manuscript by Richard Morris (b. 1701) which was a very hodge-podge list of tunes that he heard around and noted, diary-style, between the ages of 15 - 18. Back to the album cover - Phyllis says she'd like to know JK's reference material ... she like's to keep track of other sets of words... Oh, and Liland, the title is sort of right, but not by modern orthography. "V" is no longer considered to be a Welsh letter (used in the past to correct English pronunciation of the single "f") so it would be Rhyfelgyrch gwyr Harlech. There should also be a circumflex accent over the "y" in "gwyr" ... but that seems to be next to impossible in internet applications. ((sigh)). Actually, I thought it was Rhyfelgan (war song)... but I could very well be wrong on that ... Hope this is useful! sian
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11 Oct 01 - 07:11 AM (#569635) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales Oops, just noticed that I didn't pick up on Liland's Cymreig/Cymraeg! Come-RAYG (ei = long 'a', as in ray of sunshine) means Welsh in nature, Come-R'EYE'G (that is, a ae= eye as in my little eye) is Welsh in language. Hard 'c's and 'g's in each case. Oh, and you could add Cymraes (come-RICE) which is a Welsh woman as opposed to Cymro (come-ROE) for Welshman. Cymru (Wales) and Cymry (pl.Welshpeople) are pronounced the same in the South (Come-REE). See, now you knows whole bunches of Welsh! sian |
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11 Oct 01 - 03:28 PM (#569963) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo And the plural of Cymraes would be...? Thanks for the info on "Rhyfelgyrch gw^yr Harlech". God willin' an' the crick doan rise, I'll have it looking proper Cymreig Cymraeg by tomorrow. Liland |
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12 Oct 01 - 05:42 PM (#570819) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo Done! Let me know if your gwyr doesn't have a circumflex on the ē! Liland |
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12 Oct 01 - 06:13 PM (#570843) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo Oops! I mean the ŷ ! — that's the difference between "275" and "375" in specifying Unicode equivalents, I guess. Still, it may be an encouragement to those (e.g. working with Hawai'ian or Maori texts) who want macrons (macra?) badly... Liland |
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12 Oct 01 - 06:16 PM (#570846) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Gareth Cymry (pl.Welshpeople) or Cimri (pl.Welshpeople) Garydd |
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06 Dec 04 - 08:13 PM (#1349397) Subject: Need meaning of Troll the Ancient Yuletide Carol From: GUEST,Tattoosgoddess@aol.com My daughter has a homework assignment, I have looked everywhere, and am open to suggestions. I need the meaning of this phrase. I know what I think it means, and what I have interpreted its meaning to be, but am not sure. Please help. Thank You!! Happy Holidays!! |
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06 Dec 04 - 08:30 PM (#1349413) Subject: meaning: Troll the ancient yuletide carol??? From: Q (Frank Staplin) See Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.
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06 Dec 04 - 10:26 PM (#1349507) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Q (Frank Staplin) In Hymns and Carols of Christmas, there is a statement at the end of the discussion of "Deck the Halls" that says the first English version appeared in "The Franklin Square Song Collection" edited by J. P. McCaskey in 1881. This popular songbook went through several editions. Deck the Halls |
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06 Dec 04 - 10:28 PM (#1349510) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Q (Frank Staplin) Try again: Deck the Halls |
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07 Dec 04 - 11:23 AM (#1349948) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,leeneia Now look. Where does anybody get off assuming that "cityfolk would tend to hear "whore frost". ?! I live in a city, a place with real beauty and occasional hoar frost. My imagination has not been taken over by whores. I'm afraid somebody's been watching too much TV. |
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07 Dec 04 - 12:45 PM (#1350031) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Q (Frank Staplin) Sorry, Leenia. Our local TV weatherman tried to define hoar frost. Seldom used by city, or country folk here in freeze your butt off western Canada. I have heard, "Now ain't this weather a hoor?" |
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07 Dec 04 - 01:51 PM (#1350088) Subject: Lyr Add: SOON THE HOAR OLD YEAR MUST LEAVE US From: MMario SOON THE HOAR OLD YEAR MUST LEAVE US Soon the hoar old year must leave us, Fa la la la la, la la la la. But the parting must not grieve us Fa la la la la, la la la la. When the new year comes tomorrow Fa la la la la, la la la la Let him find no trace of sorrow Fa la la la la, la la la la. He our pleasures may redouble, Fa la la la la, la la la la. He may bring us store of trouble, Fa la la la la, la la la la. Hope the best and gaily meet him, Fa la la la la, la la la la. With a jovial chorus greet him, Fa la la la la, la la la la. At his birth, he brings us gladness, Fa la la la la, la la la la. Ponder not on future sadness, Fa la la la la, la la la la. Anxious care is now but folly, Fa la la la la, la la la la. Fill the mead-cup, hand the holly, Fa la la la la, la la la la. |
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07 Dec 04 - 01:53 PM (#1350090) Subject: Lyr Add: DECK THE HALLS (1881 version) From: MMario the test as first published in 1881 DECK THE HALLS (1881 version) Deck the halls with boughs of holly fa-la-la-la-la, la-la-la-la 'Tis the season to be jolly fa-la-la-la-la, la-la-la-la Fill the mead cup, drain the barrel, fa-la-la la-la-la la-la-la Troll the aincient Christmas Carol fa-la-la-la-la, la-la-la-la See the flowing bowl before us! Strike the harp and join the chorus. Follow me in merry measure while I tell of beauty's treasure. Fast away the old year passess Hail the new, ye lads and lassess Laughing, quaffing, all together. Heedless of the wind and weather. |
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08 Dec 04 - 04:32 AM (#1350739) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales Interesting, Mmario. I've always knows the first line of the second verse as, "See the blazing yule before us!" We've been folk-processed. siân |
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08 Dec 04 - 08:57 AM (#1350889) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: MMario yeah - it was "folk-processed" for prohibition! so away went the mead, flowing bowl and quaffing! |
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08 Dec 04 - 12:33 PM (#1351050) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales Oh. I thought it was the other way around, as the Yule reference is more in keeping with the Decking theme. But I'm quite happy to stand corrected! siân |
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09 Dec 04 - 04:42 PM (#1352284) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: themadblonde So the general consensus seems to be that the TUNE was first noted in Welsh tune books so may very well be Welsh; it is @ least as old as 1781, might be rather older but probably not SEVERAL centuries older. I can't seem to understand if it was first notated w/ words or not- when did these Welsh words first appear? I gather that there may have been more than one set of lyrics in Welsh, but the ones given by Liz the Squeak seem to translate to something about bills, Snowden, & people who are too rude to be sociable on New Year's day? Whereas the rhymed "translation" relates primarily to the vaguaries of the New Year & how best to greet it? Meanwhile, English words appeared in an American publication in 1881, which has led some people to believe that the song might be American (?). These also mention New Year, but have more to do w/ merrymaking & general decoration than the Welsh. Finally, the one thing that seems to be common, The New Year, is also a little vague, because the start of the Celtic New Year was what is now called Hallowe'en. If the song is TRULY ancient, that would put the time of revelry MUCH earlier, which seems to conflict w/ the images of cold & snow (I'm not sure about Welsh weather in late October, but I believe it's still more temperate there than here, & even here we don't usually get that kind of cold until November). So, considering the song is probably a little younger than THAT, the New Year to which it is referring SHOULD be the same date we celebrate today. If you can clarify or correct any of these points, PLEASE do so. I really would like to understand, as much as possible, what IS known about this song. It's a favourite of mine. ;-) |
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10 Dec 04 - 04:06 PM (#1353397) Subject: Tune Add: Nos Galan - old tune From: GUEST,leeneia People have been talking about the history of Nos Galen, which is the Welsh name for the tune we know as Deck the Halls (or Hall.) I thought players might be interested in having this MIDI of the tune, which comes from the collection of John Parry Ddall, a Welsh harper born in 1710. He played the triple harp, which explains the B-flat. Showing off, no doubt! I've sent the MIDI to Joe Offer for posting, and I hope it appears soon and someone conversant with abc converts it. The song sounds the same but different from Deck the Hall. It seems minor, yet the chords are not minor. I picture it being played in a rather sexy fashion, with percussion and more twoism than fourism to the beat. If anybody indicates an interest in the chords, I will type them out. They are G,F, and C, with a lone Am in the fourth measure from the end. Here's hoping this works and somebody wants to play it. The original has a repeat for the second section (the last 8 measures) but I didn't put that in the MIDI. It's easier to put the two dots in yourself. Click to play |
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22 Dec 04 - 02:48 AM (#1362841) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Joe Offer MIDI from Leeneia posted. See links above. -Joe Offer- |
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22 Dec 04 - 04:31 AM (#1362896) Subject: Tune Add: DECK THE HALL WITH BOUGHS OF HOLLY From: masato sakurai The first English version (see James J. Fuld, The Book of World-Famous Music, 5th ed., p. 193) has some differences: Hall (without -s) in the title, some other words, and music in the repeated part. "See the blazing yule before us" is in the original. The author of the lyrics is not mentioned. It is arranged as a four-part piece. X:1 T:Deck the Hall with Boughs of Holly M:C L:1/8 C:Welsh Air B:J. P. McCaskey, Franklin Square Song Collection, [No. 1], 1881, p. 120 K:F c3 B A2 G2 | F2 G2 A2 F2 |G A B G A3 G|F2 E2 F4| w:1.Deck the hall with boughs of hol-ly, Fa la la la la la la la la, w:2.See the blaz-ing yule be-fore us, w:3.Fast a-way the old year pass-es, c3 B A2 G2|F2 G2 A2 F2|G A B G A3 G|F2 E2 F4| w:'Tis the sea-son to be jol-ly, Fa la la la la la la la la, w:Strike the harp and join the cho-rus, w:Hail the new, ye lads and lass-es! |:G3 A B2 G2|A3 B c2 A2|c3 B A2 G2|F2 G2 A2 F2| w:Don we now our gay ap-par-el, Troll the an-cient Christ-mas car-ol, w:Fol-low me in mer-ry mea-sure, While I tell of Christ-mas trea-sure, w:Sing we joy-ous all to-geth-er, Heed-less of the wind and weath-er, d d d d c3 B|A2 G2 F4 :|] w:Fa la la la la la la la la. The music sounds truncated, but that's what it was in the song book. |
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22 Dec 04 - 11:03 AM (#1363181) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,leeneia There was an unavoidable delay between my post about the MIDI of the old tune and the actual posting of the old tune. If you are reading this, please go up and listen to the old tune, because it's finally here. Here's a musical puzzle. Recently we played the two versions of this tune, the familiar version in D and the older version which is posted above. I found it easy to specify chords (C,D7 G)to move from the 1810 version to the familiar version, but it didn't work going back. Supposedly one modulates by playing the 5-7 chord of the new key, which in this case would be a G7, but it didn't sound right. Another thing: if you want it to look Welsh, you put the chord symbols below the notes, not above. We joke that our guitarist can play guitar in three language, English, Welsh and German. |
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22 Dec 04 - 01:45 PM (#1363356) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Q (Frank Staplin) MMario, what is the source of the "1881" version you posted 07 Dec 04? The one in "The Franklin Square Song Collection" for 1881 is the one posted by Masato 22 Dec 04 (titled "Deck the Hall With Holly"). This was long before prohibition. Also with reference to a post by Haruo long ago regarding the fa la las, in the 'Franklin Square' book they are all grouped the same; five (Fa la la la la) together before :, then the remaining four. |
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22 Dec 04 - 02:05 PM (#1363373) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Q (Frank Staplin) In the midi for "Nos Galen" (very nice!), above, the 'Fa la la' grouping is different from that of "Deck the Hall(s)." The midi in "Hymns and Carols of Christmas" is better for the latter song. Perhaps both should be posted, rather than trying to service slightly different tunes with one midi. Deck the Halls |
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22 Dec 04 - 02:05 PM (#1363374) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: MMario Q- sorry - I'll have to look it up again - it was a paper on the history and language of Christmas carols - the current lyrics they said were changed from the 1881 lyrics in 1924 due to the growing strength of the prohibition movement. |
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22 Dec 04 - 07:59 PM (#1363652) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: masato sakurai The first English version was reproduced in J.P. McCaskey's another book, Favorite Songs and Hymns for School and Home (New York: American Book Company, 1899, p. 300), also without lyrics credit. |
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22 Dec 04 - 08:26 PM (#1363663) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Q (Frank Staplin) The second printing of the "Franklin Square Song Collection" in 1898 also was without attribution. No text changes from the 1881 edition. |
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23 Dec 04 - 12:08 AM (#1363747) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: masato sakurai Below are related tunes from Aloys Fleischmann, ed., Sources of Irish Traditional Music c. 1600-1855, 2 vols. (Garland, 1998). All are without lyrics. Edward Jones' version (1784) is not included. X:1 T:Nôs Galan [New Yea's Eve] %written Calan (probably a typo) M:C L:1/8 S:John Parry, British Harmony, London, 1781, p. 7 N:Fleischmann no. 2052 K:G d3 c B2 A2|G2 A2 B2 G2|ABcd c2 BA|G2 ~F2 G4:||: A2 B2 c2 A2|B2 c2 d2 A2|Bc d2 cd e2|=f2 e2 d4| d3 c B2 A2|G2 A2 B2 G2|ABcd c2 BA|G2 ~F2 G4:| X:2 T:Nos Galan M:C L:1/8 S:Edward Light, Introduction to Playing the Harp-lute & Apollo-lyre, London, c. 1785, p. 25c N:Fleischmann no. 2146 K:F c'3 b a2 g2|f2 g2 a2 f2|gabg a3 g|f2 e2 f4| c'3 b a2 g2|f2 g2 a2 f2|gabg a3 g|f2 e2 f4| g3 a b2 g2|a3 b c'2 g2|a=b c'2 d'e'f'd'|c'2 d'2 {c'/d'/}c'4| c'3 b a2 g2|f2 g2 a2 f2|gabg a3 g|f2 e2 f4|] X:3 T:A Piper O'er the Meadows Straying [Irish] M:C L:1/8 S:O'Farrell's Pocket Companion for the Irish or Union Pipes, London, 1804-16, vol. III, p. 24b N:Fleischmann no. 4134 K:G B/c/|d3 c B2 A2|G2 G2 B2 G2|ABcA G3 F|G2 B2 B3 A| d2 c2 B3 A|G2 G2 B3 G|ABcA G3 F|[1 G2 B2 G3:|[2 G2 B2 G3 z]|: %rest inserted the second time A3 B c3 A|BABc d2 A2|B/c/ d3 e/f/ g3|f2 e2 d3 B/c/| dedc BcBA|G2 G2 B3 G|AecA G3 F|G2 B2 G4:|] X:4 T:A Piper On the Meadows Straying T:[An admired duett in the opera od ZORINSKI] M:C L:1/8 S:Hime's Pocket Book for the German Flute or Violin, vol. IV, c. 1810, p. 38 N:Fleischmann no. 5251 K:G G|d3 c B3 A|G2 G3/2A/ B2 G2|AB cA G2 F2|G2 GA/B/ B2 A2| d3 c B3 A|G2 G3/2A/ B2 G2|AB cA G2 F2|G2 B2 G2 z2| A3 B c2 A2|B3 c d2 A2|B^c d2 ef gz/g/|f2 e2 d2 zd| d3 c B3 A|G2 G3/2A/ B2 G2| Ae cA G2 F2|G2 B2 G2z2|] |
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23 Dec 04 - 03:41 PM (#1364367) Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,leeneia "slightly different tunes"? The two versions I posted are so different that some people don't recognize the first one as a variant until they are told about it. |
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26 Oct 11 - 10:17 PM (#3245372) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,Brian Llewellyn-ap-Dafydd I sing for the Cor Meibion Cymreig Montreal (top tenor) I see this thread is a bit hoary itself. We are just getting ready to sing Nos Galan this season and wanted the first verse in Welsh so I was just checking a bit. You know. As to the hoar frost. One of the great natural disasters in Quebec some years back was the North American ice storm of 1998 (also known as Great Ice Storm of 1998 and Great Ice Storm '98) was a massive combination of five smaller successive ice storms which combined to strike a relatively narrow swath of land from eastern Ontario to southern Quebec to Nova Scotia in Canada, and bordering areas from northern New York to central Maine in the United States, in January 1998. It caused massive damage to trees and electrical infrastructure all over the area, leading to widespread long-term power outages. Millions were left in the dark for periods varying from days to weeks, leading to more than 30 fatalities, a shut down of activities in large cities like Montreal and Ottawa, and an unprecedented effort in reconstruction of the power grid. It was primarily caused by hoar frost, which is when the moisture in the air freezes directly on cold surfaces. On our case, trees and electricity grid lines. Without any rain or snow they become encased in ice. In Britain, I come from South Wales, this is usually a pretty and thin covering but here it was almost incredible. The ice just grew everywhere. I was evacuated from my home in the Richlieu valley by the army. I lived in an area called the black triangle. We were without power for 28 days. The average temperature at that time plunged to about minus 20. Work was shut down for a month. So much for hoar frost. |
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27 Oct 11 - 12:52 PM (#3245630) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,leeneia Hello, Brian. Thanks for posting. It's good to hear from somebody who is singing Welsh music. I've been through ice storms, but nothing like what you experienced. 28 days! That's miserable. The last storm I was in, we went for four days without power. It's amazing how cold one gets when that happens. Ice just seemed to drop out of the sky, and the sound of big trees crashing to the ground could come from anywhere. In fact, a huge limb from a mulberry tree speared the back window of our Ford. Give me snow over ice anytime. |
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27 Oct 11 - 07:24 PM (#3245887) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales So are you sorted now Brian? Have all the info you need? I remember that snow storm. I was flying back to Wales after Christmas in Niagara; my sister lived in Montreal and was in the thick of it. Awesome is an overused word these days, but that storm truly deserved the adjective. I also remember Cor Meibion Montreal. You used to practice in that church on ... Rue Sainte-Catherine? Who's your conductor these days? sian |
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29 Nov 11 - 05:53 PM (#3265730) Subject: ADD Parody: Deck Your Head (Green Bay Packers) From: Joe Offer I probably should be ashamed to post this parody, but I found it at a defunct Website, rabidfans.com, and it could well be that if it were not for this post, this song might be lost. Come to think of it, maybe that would have been a blessing.... DECK YOUR HEAD (Sung to "Deck The Halls") Deck your head with cheeseheads yellow, fa la la la la, la la la la! Then you'll be a merry fellow, fa la la la la, la la la la! Don we now our green apparel, fa la la la la, la la la la! And we'll sing some Packer carols, fa la la la la, la la la la! Put some mittens on your hands, fa la la la la, la la la la! Keep you warm up in the stands, fa la la la la, la la la la! Lambeau Field is really cold, fa la la la la, la la la la! Unless you cheer for the Green and Gold, fa la la la la, la la la la! First we'll have a tailgate party, fa la la la la, la la la la! Ten below, but we're real hardy, fa la la la la, la la la la! Bratwurst topped with sauerkraut, fa la la la la, la la la la! Schnapps will keep the frostbite out, fa la la la la, la la la la! I left Wisconsin before they came up with this "cheesehead" garbage, but the rest of it sounds authentic. I wonder how they avoided getting in a verse about deer season, the most sacred season of the year in Wisconsin.... |
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29 Nov 11 - 06:04 PM (#3265733) Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Joe Offer Oh....back in 2000, Abby Sale graced us with his transcription of Deck Us All With Boston Charlie from the Pogo comic strip.... |
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29 Nov 11 - 07:01 PM (#3265758) Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales Ah. Pogo's Boston Charlie. Best parody EVER. I go Pogo. In general, I keep telling myself that one day I'll make note of every use of Nos Galan / Deck the Halls on the media over the Christmas season. I'd guess that it might be one of the most used Christmas tunes, with Jingle Bells coming in second. And then the Media still tell us that no one likes traditional music ... sian |
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14 Dec 11 - 09:25 PM (#3273959) Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,Roddy Wikipedia states:- "The tune is that of an old Welsh air, first found in a musical manuscript by Welsh harpist John Parry Ddall (c. 1710–1782), but undoubtedly much older than that. The composition is still popular as a dance tune in Wales, and was published in the 1784 and 1794 editions of the harpist Edward Jones's Musical and Poetical Relics of the Welsh Bards. Poet John Ceiriog Hughes wrote the first published lyrics for the piece in Welsh, titling it "Nos Galan" ("New Year's Eve")" Wikipedia continues:- "Charles Wood arranged a version, the words from Talhaiarn; translated by T. Oliphant. Oliphant died in 1873 and the first English version of 1881 is attributed to him." Talhaiarn (John Jones) and Oliphant worked closely on many works including: "Welsh Melodies, with Welsh and English poetry", by J. Jones (Talhaiarn) and T. Oliphant. I have not checked this publication altough Deck the Hall with Boughs of Holly is said to be in it:- "WORDS AND TUNES FROM THE BEST POETS AND MUSICIANS SELECTED AND ARRANGED BY JOHN HULLAH 1884" states:"Words (translated from Talhaiarn) by Oliphant. TUNE New Year's Eve. From Thomas's Welsh Melodies" There are four volumes to "Welsh Melodies". The first two were published in 1862, the third in 1870, fourth 1874. If Deck the Halls is in "Welsh Melodies" then it not only confirms Thomas Oliphant as the author of the English Version (which is clearly not a translation of the Welsh) but it would also pre-date the 1881 publication which attributes it to Thomas Oliphant anyway. |
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15 Dec 11 - 06:31 PM (#3274453) Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Old Grizzly Aha! - there was an Oliphant in the room all along Sounds great played on English Half long pipes, concertina and cello Dave |
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22 Dec 11 - 01:38 AM (#3278171) Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Genie Nos Galen / Deck the Halls video |
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22 Dec 11 - 10:29 AM (#3278350) Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Mo the caller I just put Liz's first verse into an online translator and got the refrain Balloons la la la la.... |
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22 Dec 11 - 10:56 AM (#3278369) Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,leeneia Thanks for the link, Genie. People, it's time to stop talking about the song, and get out your instruments and play it. For example, it's great on dulcimer. I know because I just played it for friends at a dinner party yesterday. |
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27 Dec 11 - 09:08 PM (#3280821) Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,Roddy Does anyone have access to "Welsh Melodies"? There are four volumes to "Welsh Melodies". The first two were published in 1862, the third in 1870, fourth 1874. It would be good to know whether or not it is published there. Thomas Oliphant wrote his own version of lyrics to many Welsh and German songs. Carolina Oliphant (Lady Nairne) did exactly the same thing except she to Scottish songs (which she did not need to translate). Her grandfather and Thomas's great grandmother were siblings. |
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12 Jan 12 - 02:29 PM (#3289456) Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST At last. In John Hullah's "The Song Book" 1884, there is a section on Welsh songs. They are ALL taken from John Thomas's book "Welsh Melodies", including on page 325 "Deck the Hall with Boughs of Holly". For every song in the Welsh section it says after the song "Words (translated from Talhaiarn) by Oliphant". Since it is not a translation, the words are Thomas Oliphant's, written to an old Welsh tune. Thomas Oliphant was born in Scotland in 1799, died in (London) England in 1872. Which volume of "Welsh Melodies" I will find out and let you know. |
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12 Jan 12 - 03:07 PM (#3289486) Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Stewart The Piper Through The Meadow Straying A very nice version of this tune, followed by Galtee Hunt From the Fiddler's Companion PIPER THROUGH THE MEADOW STRAYING, THE. Irish, Hornpipe or Set Dance. G Major. Standard. AAB (Joyce): AB (O'Neill). The melody appears in O'Farrell's c. 1800 publications Collection of National Music for the Union Pipes and Pocket Companion for the Irish or Union Pipes (c. 1811). Bruce Olson finds what is probably the same tune as a duet called "A piper on the meadows straying" in the ballad opera Zorinski (1795) {music selected and composed by Dr. Samuel Arnold} and that the song with music was published the following year in Walker's Hibernian Magazine. A verse (printed in Charms of Melody, Dublin, c. 1795-1810) begins: *** A piper on the meadows straying, Met a simple maid a-maying. *** Many people will recognize the similarity between sections of the 'B' part of the tune and the popular Christmas carol "Deck the Halls." Learned by Joyce as a child in Co. Limerick, c. 1840. Joyce (Old Irish Folk Music and Song), 1909; No. 131, pgs. 66-67. O'Neill (1915 ed.), 1987; No. 70, pg. 43. Chieftains - "Bells of Dublin" (appears as last tune of "The Wren! The Wren!" medley). Cheers, S. in Seattle |
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13 Jan 12 - 10:40 AM (#3289977) Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,leeneia "Wikipedia states:- "The tune is that of an old Welsh air, first found in a musical manuscript by Welsh harpist John Parry Ddall (c. 1710–1782), but undoubtedly much older than that." I believe 'dhall' means 'blind,' and the finder was John Parry. I have a book of his music, and the first sentence says, "It is thought that John Parry was born in 1710..." Parry's tune is 'Nos Galan,' the minor tune. I have played a lot of early music, and I don't think you can claim that it is 'undoubtedly much older than that.' I have no trouble thinking it an 18th-C piece. The Welsh harper Robin Huw Bowen publishes pocket tune books dedicated to harpers of yore, and I got the book from him. |