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Lyr Req: Sans Day Carol (in Cornish)

07 Oct 00 - 02:00 AM (#313982)
Subject: Lyric Req: Sans Day Kernewek Kernow
From: Haruo

I just noticed a GUEST (Jon Kernow) posting a couple days ago in the Gravity thread, and it occurred to me (because of what I just posted about Nos Galan in Welsh) that another carol I want to find is the Cornish text of the Sans Day Carol (there's English in the Oxford Book of Carols, and I have two Esperanto versions, but I don't think I've ever seen the Cornish (for the uninitiated "Kernow" is Cornish for "Cornwall", and Kernewek is Cornish for Cornish) text. Anybody know where I might find it?

Liland

07 Oct 00 - 02:52 AM (#313995)
Subject: RE: Lyric Req: Sans Day Kernewek Kernow
From: Liz the Squeak

Have you tried searching for Kernow on the net? That might come up with something. Cornish as a spoken language is very nearly dead, although I remember something about there being one class for it somewhere in Cornwall.... the last true Cornish speaker died some time back at a veritable age, but there were recordings of her speaking and someone started up lessons. I suspect you are in for a long, hard search.....

LTS

07 Oct 00 - 08:55 AM (#314053)
Subject: RE: Lyric Req: Sans Day Kernewek Kernow
From: GUEST,Mountain Dog

Dear Liland,

My wife and I spent the best part (and I mean that in every sense) of the last year and a half in Cornwall doing primary research on a book. In the course of our travels, we ran across a bookstore in Helston, Cornwall that specializes in all things related to the Cornish tongue. They have dictionaries, histories, books of poetry and I shouldn't be surprised if they have music as well.

We have recently returned to the States and have just finished moving house and are still "in boxes", but as soon as I can lay hands on it, I'll post the contact information for the bookstore here on the forum.

Good luck in the meanwhile!

07 Oct 00 - 02:21 PM (#314198)
Subject: RE: Lyric Req: Sans Day Kernewek Kernow
From: GUEST,Kernow Jon

Liland
I think Liz may be right that the search will be a hard one for the reasons given below. However there are now quite a few Cornish language classes going on and we have one family come to our folk club whose first language at home is Cornish, kids an' all.
We have Cornish speakers in my village and I am regularly greated with "myten dha, fatla genes?" instead of "good morning, how are you?"
The song was first written down about 90 years ago, but is probably about 60 years older than that. It comes from the village of St.Day in Cornwall.
Helston is my nearest town and the guy that runs it (who's name escapes me) is a Cornish speaker. I will ask him about it and look through the books in the shop.
As Liz mentions the last person to speak Cornish as a first language was Dolly Pentreath who was interviewed by Daines Barrington in 1768.
Merv Davey in his book Henegan says that there are probably only 5 traditional songs that survive written in Cornish. If you are interested as to what they are let me know.
If a translation from English to Cornish will suffice let me know I and can sort that out.

KJ

07 Oct 00 - 02:52 PM (#314213)
Subject: RE: Lyric Req: Sans Day Kernewek Kernow
From: Malcolm Douglas

'MA GRUN WAR 'N GELYNEN

'Ma grün war 'n gelynen, 'ga lyú-ý léthwyn
Ha Jésus ó maylyes yn dyllas owrlyn
Ha Mam ó an Vaghteth
Marýa Mam Dew
Ha gwedhen an gwella
An gelynen yú
Kelyn, kelyn
Ha gwedhen an gwella
An gelynen yú

'Ma grün war 'n gelynen, 'ga lyú-ý gwelswer
Ha Jésus ó crowsys, ý Vam yn awhér

'Ma grün war 'n gelynen, 'ga lyú-ý gosrüth
Ha Jésus yú 'gan Sylw'as, ý vernans mar druth

'Ma grün war 'n gelynen, 'ga lyú-ý glowdhú
Ha Jésus ó marow, dredho ný a vew


As printed in Peter Kennedy's Folk Songs of Britain and Ireland (1975). It's an English language song, translated into Cornish by the bard Tyrvab (W. Daniel Watson), who died in 1959. This is the text in Mordon's unified spelling, which Tyrvab himself did not accept. Unfortunately I've been unable to find any way of displaying the - symbol used to indicate long vowels, so have substituted acute accents for want of a better alternative. The English text and tune are in the DT, here: THE HOLLY BEARS A BERRY (SANS DAY CAROL)

Malcolm

07 Oct 00 - 06:53 PM (#314356)
Subject: RE: Lyric Req: Sans Day Kernewek Kernow
From: Haruo

Once again, thank you all and especially Malcolm Douglas.

Liland

09 Oct 00 - 11:15 AM (#314691)
Subject: RE: Lyric Req: Sans Day Kernewek Kernow
From: Haruo

TO THREAD:

My recollection was that the first three verses of Sans Day Carol were recorded in English and subsequently translated into Cornish by a Cornish Revival bard (Tyrvab, apparently, according to Malcolm Douglas), but that the fourth of his verses was original with him in Cornish. I'm not sure whether I got this from the Oxford Book of Carols (which I don't have at hand) or perhaps from Geoffrey Sutton's booklet on Cornish in Esperanto (which is where I first learned about Cornish linguistic history), or from some other forgotten source. I also recall (from OBC I'm pretty sure) that St. They is an alternate spelling, and that he was a popular saint in both Cornwall and Brittany, but I know nothing about him.

Several years ago (close to a decade now, I guess) Seattle singers Carolyn Gronlund and (the late) Gene Patterson recorded my Esperanto version of the carol, but the projected cassette for which it was done never materialized. I've just posted William Auld's version, a bit oddly titled Sanstaga Himno, and will add my own version soon (or at any rate, I hope, before Advent).

Thanks, GUEST Mountain Dog, but it looks like GUEST Kernow Jon is even better situated as far as helping me contact the bookstore in Helston. Would love to hear about the book you were researching, though.

And thank you, too, GUEST Kernow Jon. Seems to me on a Manx Gaelic site I ran into an article that cast serious doubt on the historicity of Ms. Pentreath's status as the (purported) last native speaker of pre-revival Cornish, but I don't recall the details. It was in the context of an attempt to demonstrate that Manx had never actually died out, I do recall that much. I certainly would be interested in whatever you find out from the bookseller in Helston and his books, and yes, please do post or PM me the list of the 5 traditional songs that survive written in Cornish, and info on where the texts and/or English translations can be found.

09 Oct 00 - 11:19 AM (#314694)
Subject: RE: Lyric Req: Sans Day Kernewek Kernow
From: Haruo

The link should be Sanstaga Himno (Esperanto version of Sans Day Carol by Auld and Hill). Sorry again... Liland

09 Oct 00 - 11:20 AM (#314698)
Subject: RE: Lyric Req: Sans Day Kernewek Kernow
From: Haruo

What is wrong with me this morning? Sanstaga Himno