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09 Oct 00 - 05:09 PM (#314972) Subject: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Knappo There is no real point to this post but I'd like to know if giant screen t.v's have invaded all parts of the world or just us lucky Yanks. My little acoustic trio was all set up to play at a club last night, directly under a wall size screen. During our set up people were yelling and so on at the baseball game overhead. We decided, after tuning up, that we couldn't, wouldn't try to compete. So we torn it all down again. The owner was understanding and we got paid but...man what a drag! Every bar we play at seems to have one of these monsters. Anyone else run into this situation? Tom |
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09 Oct 00 - 05:17 PM (#314980) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: khandu A few years back, I would frequent a quaint little pub. Nice quiet place and the only pub in town where I could find Killian's Red. I loved the place. Alas, the owner thought it a grand idea to install one of those accursed Monster. Drew in the sports crowd and my quiet quaint little pub became a sports bar. And lost my patronage. Ah, sweet memories and sad realities! khandu |
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09 Oct 00 - 05:28 PM (#314994) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: The Shambles Over the weekend I went in to a new pub to watch the big football match. I thought they may have a big TV. In fact they did and in addition about 20 others! However the worst thing was when the game finished and the result was not the one I wanted, I went to the 'gents' to hide and there were even two small ones above the urinal stalls. |
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09 Oct 00 - 05:48 PM (#315014) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: katlaughing It seems out here every bar or lounge has a tv, not always a Monster-sized one, though. One restaurant here specialises in having so many that no matter what table you sit at you are confronted with the damned things. I think the human race lost when they also started putting them in vehicles. |
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09 Oct 00 - 05:51 PM (#315019) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: mousethief I think the human race lost when they started putting them in homes.
Alex |
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09 Oct 00 - 05:58 PM (#315026) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: GUEST If you don't like it dont go there. Here in England you have a choice, vote with your money. If enough people feel the way you do, someone will try to make money from you. If it's really bad, try opening up somewhere yourself |
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09 Oct 00 - 05:58 PM (#315028) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Wavestar Ack! I'm horrified by them, in restaurants and pubs alike. In the restaurant, your eyes are drawn to them and your brain stuts down (and WHAT is the point of having a soap opera on in the corner with the sound off?) In pubs, they make conversation impossible at anything less than 80 decibels. My Bardic group used to meet in one of the pubs in town, where we'd tell stories and sing a few songs, until we couldn't find one that didn't either have a monster and lots of screaming football fans, or a manager that glowered at us when we got to a climactic point in the story or opened out mouths to sing. Very frustrating... -J |
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09 Oct 00 - 06:05 PM (#315030) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Mbo Answer is simple--don't play in bars! People go to bars to drink, watch TV, and hang out--they don't go there to attend a concert that requires their complete attention! |
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09 Oct 00 - 06:14 PM (#315037) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: catspaw49 Shambles and I must go to the same bar! There's place here that has about 15 TV's on different channels many times so you can watch whatever it is. Most have the captioning on and no sound. I've watched a few races there because they have a good beer selection and some great wings with a firebreathin' sauce. I can't imagine anyone playing in one of these joints. Spaw |
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09 Oct 00 - 06:16 PM (#315039) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: guinnesschik Our favorite local pub owner wondered why he was losing so much business on certain sports nights, so he walked into another local pub (one that sucks)to check it out. Alas, HIS regualrs were there, and told him if he didn't have a T.V, they would continue to visit the OTHER pub on sports nights. Unfortunately, he was losing so much revenue, he's now saving his hard-earned pennies to buy a large screen T.V. He has promised, however, when there are bands in, that the television will be turned off....sports night or not. |
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09 Oct 00 - 06:22 PM (#315044) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: The Shambles Sign of the times? Further to the pub I mentioned. It is a new stlye pub, on two levels and up to very recently it was the local branch of my (TSB) bank...... |
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09 Oct 00 - 06:25 PM (#315047) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: catspaw49 Damn Shambles!!! I didn't see you there, but its the same place!!! Closed bank (this one was a BancOhio), two levels, boatload of TV's..........Sign of the times? Probably right. Spaw |
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09 Oct 00 - 06:28 PM (#315049) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: McGrath of Harlow "People go to bars to drink, watch TV, and hang out" - well, I go to pubs to play music and sing mostly. Fortunately I'm not the only one or I'd feel a right lemon.
It can be a pain though the big-screens - but it can work out all right. They stuck a big-screen projection-telly in a pub where we had a regular session, and on big game nights it meant we sat and talked and drank till the match was done, and maybe watched it; and then we played for the restof the evening.
If it wasn't a big match, but there was a match of some kind, the landlord might leave the screen on with the sound down, and the people who wanted to would listen to it on a little set on the other side of the bar. This was quite good, because it meant you were playing next to this huge green window with these fellas running around chasing a ball, like being in a sound-proofed private box up in the grandstand.
But you're right Mbo, you wouldn't want a concert where you want everybody paying full attention in a bar. If you're playing in a pub session, it's more like being a juke-box - there are some people who are listening with rapt attention, and some just like it in the background, and some who don't even notice it. It's somewhere in between a performance and a practice session. And it's different from the sort of pub-gig set-up with a stage and mikes and that stuff, where the question of competing with the telly wouldn't arise.
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09 Oct 00 - 06:34 PM (#315052) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Mbo I guess it's different in the US. We don't have "pub sessions" in bars...just in bars or pubs emulating the UK/Ireland kind. |
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09 Oct 00 - 06:36 PM (#315054) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: sophocleese Well Orillia got an Irish Bar two years ago. Its called Finnegan's Walk and sports approx. 15 TV screens in various places. So is this traditional Irish? There's only one local bar (that I know of) that doesn't have a bloody great screen up in it somewhere but that's because the ever-present cloud of cigarrette smoke would obscure it. I haven't tried singing an any of these bars yet. I'm working on trying them out though. All of them will be staging bands for the Orillia Jazz Festival in a couple of weeks though so I'll see if they turn the TVs off or not. |
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09 Oct 00 - 06:37 PM (#315055) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: MK Years ago when I was playing bars, one of the ones we performed in on a regular basis, got a large screen tv. The funny thing was that it used the same remote control unit as the one I had at home. We put up with this tv set for two nights as it distracted the audience away from what I naively thought was the focal point --the band. The bartender refused to turn the sound down when we went on to play. Finally on the third night, I decided to bring the remote from home with me to the gig. I had it discretely off to the side of one of my synths, and it wasn't visible from stage to anyone in the audience. I had it aimed directly at the club's tv set. Before going on stage to begin our set, I asked the bartender to lower the volume out of consideration for the band, and tried to impress upon him that there were in fact regulars in the club who wanted to hear us. He ignored me. We went on stage, got about a minute and half into the first tune and with my left hand, muted the volume. Patrons at the bar complained to the bartender. He got his remote and un-muted it. I let this go for another 2 or 3 minutes, and then muted it again from my end. This process went on for all the first set. Bartender couldn't figure out what was wrong with the set. (We were trying to keep from pissing ourselves on stage and giving ourselves away.) Finally when we started the second set, instead of hitting the mute button, I was just turning off the set instead (and the bartender would keep turning it back on.) This went on over and over during the second set, and finally the bartender decided there was something wrong with the tv, turned it off and put an "out of order" sign on it. We finished off the week with no further problems with the tv as it remained "out of order". No one clued into the fact that there were only problems with the tv set when the band arrived. Go figure. We stopped gigging right around the time sports bars with multiple tvs were just coming into acceptance. Good thing too. Would have had to build some sort of rack mounted do-hickey to house all the remotes I would have needed to control ALL the multiple tv sets in these clubs. (Thanks for this thread. I hadn't thought about this in years!) |
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09 Oct 00 - 06:38 PM (#315057) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: guinnesschik Heh...Mbo. Speak fer yer own space in the U.S. Check out the "Dallas/Fort Worth Session" thread. *G* Same pub I'm talking about, and the T.V. will be off or volume lowered on session nights. I still don't like the idea, however. |
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09 Oct 00 - 06:38 PM (#315058) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: McGrath of Harlow Come on over some time. And bring Father Tom. |
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09 Oct 00 - 07:03 PM (#315081) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Wavestar That's brilliant, Michael K. You should get a prize - I laughed myself silly. How entirely apt. -J |
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09 Oct 00 - 07:16 PM (#315093) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: GUEST I have never seen a giant TV in any bar here in Miami. I have however seen quite a few diminutive ones, some of them fairly passable, but they don't fool me .... Murray |
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09 Oct 00 - 07:22 PM (#315100) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Mbo Like I said, Irish or English-style pubs. You don't go into bars here like "Chico's" or "Boli's" or "Cheap Shot O'Malleys" or "The Backdoor" and play music. And worst of all folk music, they'd throw things at you. This is a college town, we don't stand for that sort of thing. The closest pub I know is 150 miles away, "The Bull McCabe's". You have to remember that just as the TV is annoying you, you may be annoying those watching the TV. |
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09 Oct 00 - 07:30 PM (#315109) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: guinnesschik So true. I guess we take our little hole in the wall for granted. It just won't be as good with the ever present pacifier of the millions hanging over our heads as we jam. |
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09 Oct 00 - 09:22 PM (#315157) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: GUEST,1979 There is no question that TV's and bars, pubs or whatever you want to call it DO NOT MIX. If you want to watch TV and drink get your buddies and go home out of it!!! Don't tell me that its not the same at home because the bar is a social scene. Your are not being social when your eyes glaze and mouth hangs open as you stare at the program. IT is not being "social" when you look at someone and say, "did you see that?" The reality is that they are there, those evil bastards! When I am playing somewhere it does not bother me if people are not listening because they are in conversation. But if they are just sitting there watching that God Damn Box!!!! Drives me bonkers! |
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09 Oct 00 - 09:28 PM (#315162) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Mbo I never could figure out who came up with the idea that singing cognitionally-advanced songs to a half-drunk, dead-tired, fun-loving crowd was a good idea. What they need to do is come and entertain me when I'm in the dark soundless darkrooms at school for 4 hours (like I'll be tomorrow.) I could use the company! Entertain where there IS no entertainment...not where you have to fight for attention! |
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09 Oct 00 - 09:52 PM (#315174) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Bill D since the Wash DC area has so many musicians and cultures, there are a 'few' places (Irish & Blusgrass, mostly) that will support live music on most nights and turn OFF the media blasters while live music happens....but sports bars and just booze bars usually have the *BOXX* |
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09 Oct 00 - 10:07 PM (#315184) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Sorcha I just know I hate the damn things. Big, little, home, bar, where ever. I wish we didn't even own one, but I am out voted 3/1.
There are, however, still a few bars in Wyoming that don't have them. Mostly little out of the way places like the Miner's Bar in Hartville, and someplace I can't remember the name of in Glendo. The Ft. Laramie (town of, not old fort) has one, but every time I have played there it has been OFF, and we had the undivided attention of a packed house. BLISS! Of course, there was way too much "push" on the sound system--theirs, not ours--and we were way too loud, but they seemed to like it. I think there is also a difference between the meaning of "bar" and "pub".......... |
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09 Oct 00 - 10:30 PM (#315202) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: catspaw49 Okay, beat the hell out of me....I LIKE TV. With the proliferation of cable channels, I've seen some fine stuff on History Channel, TLC, A&E, Discovery, and others. Some programs have given me an insight into something new or a different angle and then I have a reading list I collect from them to take to the library. I'll never get through a tenth of the books I want to read based on TV shows I've seen. If you're nosey, Biography, VH1, E!, and some others occasionally have some fun bio stuff. Sorry gang, I just don't find it a vast wasteland. Spaw |
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09 Oct 00 - 10:35 PM (#315205) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Rick Fielding In a nutshell Tom, that's why I stopped playing in bars. Great story MK. Back in the bad old days, I was playing the lounge of a prestigious hotel in Toronto. They got a juke box in. I already had started developing my attitude problem with noisy bar patrons, and to me this was the final straw. As I was packing up one night I squeezed a whole tube of rubber cement into the money slot. The machine was GONE the next night and didn't return (at least while I was there). Like Raskalnikoff, I had to return to the scene of my crime and tell somebody. (a waitress) but not for a couple of years! Rick |
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10 Oct 00 - 12:27 AM (#315261) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Sorcha Spaw, yes there is good stuff on those channels, but it just seems to me it is repeats, and more repeats. I can only stand watching a program so many times. |
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10 Oct 00 - 12:36 AM (#315269) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall) Great story, Rick. A pub where hold sessions here in Pittsburgh actually turned the TV up to be able to hear during the session a little while ago. Some game, I wasn't paying attention to. They were kind of put off when the session broke up early. Rich |
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10 Oct 00 - 12:59 AM (#315281) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Amergin Hmmm,Mbo, there's this brewery/pub in Vancouver, WA that didn't seem much like an English or Irish style pub.....ran into a couple of Catters there and am told that they have sessions there every Thursday.... Amergin |
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10 Oct 00 - 01:06 AM (#315285) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Little Hawk If I ever become a performer who has enough of a career to play concert halls or arenas (and I probably won't, because I'm not very amibitious that way...)...I would like to publicly execute a television during the show. If I ever have a video on TV I would like to hold up a sign at the beginning of it saying "Do Yourself A Big Favour - Kill Your TV - and reclaim your life." Michael K - I find it most amusing that the guys in that bar couldn't put two and two together and realize that the band might have some connection with the "malfunctioning" TV. This goes a long way toward proving my contention which is that too much TV watching lobotomizes people. Spaw - you're right that there is quite a bit of good stuff on TV on certain channels...but it's still interrupted all the time by advertising, and that kind of ruins it for me. Basically, it is a vast wasteland, with the odd oasis here and there, if you look carefully, and if you can put up with the ads. I can't be bothered. I'd rather rent a movie (and even they have advertising now!!!). Thank God people are getting into computers now, where they can actually participate and communicate with someone, and be creative...instead of sitting and absorbing the dreck from their TV's like helpless sponges. Remember Orwell's 1984? A giant TV in every place. Big Brother has indeed taken over...his primary purpose, to keep you buying endless consumer goods and not thinking about anything except your immediate gratification. "Give me convenience, or give me death!" could be the present-day motto of America. So much for Patrick Henry. Jefferson and Washington would be appalled at where their country has gone in the last 50 or 60 years. |
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10 Oct 00 - 06:25 AM (#315348) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Michael in Swansea The Weatherspoons chain of pubs this side of the pond have a no T.V. policy, they also have a no music policy. Mike |
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10 Oct 00 - 07:14 AM (#315356) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: McGrath of Harlow "The Weatherspoons chain of pubs this side of the pond have a no T.V. policy, they also have a no music policy." That seems quite a fair compromise of Wetherspoons. Quiet pubs have a lot to be said for them.
As I see it, a session in a pub isn't primarily about entertaininmg the punters, it's about sharing the music with each other. It's great if other people like it, especially if you can get them dancing. But that's not what it's about. You might get a couple of free beers, or some sandwiches, because the landlord recklons you bring a few people in, or keep them there drinking longer - but that's realy just a token, an indication that you are welcome there.
It's different from a gig where you are getting paid by the management to provide entertainment, or a club, where people are paying to be entertained, and the organisers are paying the management to let them use their function room or whatever.
Pubs and bars - in the English pattern there's a couple of rooms in a pub, which are the bars, and they can have very different qualities and clienteles. So you could have music in one and darts in another and TV in another. But increasingly they are knocking the bars into one, which means more chance of people rubbing each up the wrong way.
But whether it's pubs or bars, they vary a lot - even on different nights and times. The pub crawl is a great way of investigating such things. You might be surprised at what you find out, Mbo. (I suppose it'd be a bar crawl in the States, but I've never heard the expression.)
This looks like an interesting book about this kind of thing - I was browsing through it in the library the other day. But it didn't seem to get into the music side of it, that I should see. Someone here should write it up. |
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10 Oct 00 - 10:08 AM (#315432) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Jim the Bart Bars are in the business of selling booze. To do that they will put salted nuts on the bar, hire women to parade around in lingerie, bring in professional comedians or amateur singers (God, please rain fire on all karaoke machines). They will also hire bands, or coerce musicians to perform for free (pass the hat still lives here in Chicago). What really gets customers at the moment are live sport events. "That's just the way it is. Some things will never change." - Bruce Hornsby. I'd rather play for free than get treated like a bowl of nuts for a few bucks. Many years ago my contry rock band was playing at a bar in Stevens Point, Wisconsin on the night of a Muhammad Ali fight. This was pre-big screen TV, and the only television was a small one over the bar at the other end of the room. The fight went the distance and all we saw all night long were the backs of people's heads. When the fight finally ended, we played about 1/2 hour more, the crowd turned around, and the place was rocking (the crowd was loaded). When we were leaving the owner told us we never played better. You could have fooled us. |
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10 Oct 00 - 11:38 AM (#315491) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Mbo Actually, I've never been in a bar and have no wish to! I'm happy that this time of year was Olympics and now MLB playoffs...finally there's fun stuff on TV! Usually it's boring sitcoms..and we don't get cable. So when sports time comes around, there's finally something to do! |
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10 Oct 00 - 11:54 AM (#315507) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Patrish(inactive) Mbo, I think there must be some cultural difference, you make it sound as if going into a bar is a sin or something. I go into my local bar on my own and at complete ease, I have lots of friend who do the same and we sing and play music and people drink, some too much and its all very jolly Patrish |
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10 Oct 00 - 12:04 PM (#315516) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Mbo Patrish, there is. We don't HAVE singing or music in bars here. And my friends don't hang out in bars either. I don't drink and neither do they. So there's no point. I'm not gonna go into some seedy joint with more cigarette smoke than ash, and a bunch of drunk frat boys hurling obscenities at one another, as well as the TV. Some fellow students I know have been bartenders, and the stories they tell are NOT pleasant. Like smashed boozer calling the female bartenders "f***ing b****es" and starting trouble, and the manager has to throw them out. I'd rather stay away, thank you very much. |
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10 Oct 00 - 12:30 PM (#315536) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Wavestar Mbo - You just need to find nicer places. I'm not wild about bars either, and I don't drink, as you don't. But on the other hand, there are a few music series in Vermont that have concerts in local bars, and they can be delightful. It generally helps if the owners appreciate the music, and of course, the patrons kind of need to as well... Here in Britain, though, short of my living roo, there's no where in town to go after about 9:30 PM besides the pubs - and some of them have a great atmosphere, except for the smoke, which makes me inconveniently sick and unable to breathe.... -J |
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10 Oct 00 - 01:18 PM (#315594) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Songster Bob In DC, there was this place called "The Rabbit's Foot." When the Country Gentlemen broke up, some of the members formed a new band, and got a gig at the Rabbit's Foot, on Monday nights. The first night was a night the Redskins were on Monday Night Football, and the barkeep refused to turn off the TV while the band played. So the band packed up and went home, and looked around for a better place to play. First they found the Red Fox, where they began to draw crowds, and, later, when the Fox closed, the sizable crowd of regulars followed the Seldom Scene to the Birchmere, where it played till finally disbanding. Now those bars had a regular clientel of loyal Scene fans filling the place, and receptive to seeing entertainment on other nights as well. The Rabbit's Foot loss was the bluegrass fans' gain. And the Red Fox's and Birchmere's. Vote with your purse-strings and your feet. Bob Clayton |
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10 Oct 00 - 02:41 PM (#315638) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: McGrath of Harlow "I've never been in a bar and have no wish to!"... "We don't HAVE singing or music in bars here."
You're probably right, it's your town, Mbo. But if you've never been in any of the bars, how do you know know they are all like that? I could take you to pubs which are just like the bars you decribe, and others which are totally different. Ranging from the lively and friendly to the ones that are more like library reading rooms or funeral parlours. I tend increasingly towards preferring those, when I'm not in for a session.
There are even a few where they don't have smoking, which is fine by me. |
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10 Oct 00 - 03:11 PM (#315660) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Bert I was playing in a bar once and some young punks thought it a great joke to start the jukebox while I was playing. I glared at them and walked over and unplugged it. They didn't dare touch it for the rest of the evening. |
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10 Oct 00 - 05:06 PM (#315731) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: GUEST,Mbo_at_ECU As Zeframe Cochrane said to Cmdr. Riker when he unplugged his jukebox (with was blaring "Ooby Dooby" by Roy Orbison) "HEY! Who told this jerk he could turn off my music?" |
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10 Oct 00 - 05:25 PM (#315739) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Angelia Hey Michael K., that has to be the top most idea of the century...I have't laughed as hard as i did when i read your story in a loooonnngg time! What an original idea!! Someone should start a new thread on humourous times in music. lol Angie |
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10 Oct 00 - 07:12 PM (#315823) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: MK Thanks Angelia. It was just one of those situations where it was necessary to have "the world" conform to my standards and not the other way around. I also liked Rick's solution to the jukebox. And Little Hawk, remember we were in a BAR, where people drink, get intoxicated and who's collective judgement may be a little impaired. They never caught on, and the bar tender knew just enough English to interpret drink orders. |
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10 Oct 00 - 07:16 PM (#315828) Subject: RE: Giant T.V.'s in bars, AHHHH......... From: Wavestar Bert, I was at a pub session here once where some students, sadly counted as my peers, started the jukebox. I was shocked and horrified, but couldn't do much, so we all just ignored it. They left soon after, but their music kept playing, and eventually the musicians gave up. -J |