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22 Aug 97 - 09:41 PM (#11082) Subject: old typography in ballads From: Susan of DT I need help from a middle English scholar! I was entering ballads into the DT from a source using older letters. I recognize the letter "thorn" but not the one that looks sort of like a "3". What is it and what is it's sound, so I can transcribe it. Thank you. |
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23 Aug 97 - 02:44 AM (#11087) Subject: RE: old typography in ballads From: Murray It's called "yogh", supposedly a form of the letter "g", which got its own varied value--"y" [as in "yoke"] at the beginning of words, and "kh" [= Scots ch as in "loch"] at the end; in the middle of words, sometimes one, sometimes the other, sometimes GH [which doesn't occur any more]. I should think generally you can transliterate it by either Y or GH, depending on the word. |
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24 Aug 97 - 01:33 AM (#11108) Subject: RE: old typography in ballads From: Susan of DT Thanks Murray. We figured you would be the one to come thru with this. |
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24 Aug 97 - 04:54 PM (#11129) Subject: RE: old typography in ballads From: Susan of DT Murray The song was Robin and Gandyleyn from the Oxford Book of Ballads and most of the yoghs were at the beginning of words, but the rest were internal, none at the end. |
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27 Aug 97 - 03:35 PM (#11321) Subject: RE: old typography in ballads From: DrWord kni3t "knight" and many other Anglo-Saxon words with "gh" in the middle. The other character you may encounter is eth, which is the voiced counterpart of thorn, and appears as a crossed d -- transcribe it "th" And then there's the letter ash which looks like ae run together -- short a sound. |
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28 Aug 97 - 01:14 AM (#11343) Subject: RE: old typography in ballads From: Murray Susan: you can safely transliterate the initial yoghs by "y"s - i.e. 3eue = yeve [= give], 3ouyn = youyn [= given]. 3elpe = yelpe [= boast]; and internally, I think there's only "my3t" in stanza 14, which you can make "myght" I suppose--it's pronounced exactly the same in Scots. |
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28 Aug 97 - 03:43 PM (#11398) Subject: RE: old typography in ballads From: LaMarca Susan, I've got a 1910 edition of the Oxford Book of Ballads that has no weird characters for Robin Hood and Gandelyn (except Robin Hood and Gandelyn themselves, of course). If you like, I can transcribe the lines you can't get after I return from Labor Day vacation. By my reading of this ballad (my Middle English not being the greatest), it appears that the two of them have an archery contest a la William Tell, and Gandelyn kills Robin Hood when he misses (?!?!?). Or is it the other way 'round? Or is some third innocent person killed? |