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22 Oct 00 - 02:01 PM (#324605) Subject: Birds on Wires From: flattop I thought that Leonard Cohen had been brilliant to come up with images that I recognized and welcomed but that never would have crossed my feeble mind on it's own. I thought that he was brighter than you and me (especially you.) Now I'm not so sure. Friday night my options and uncertain plans to possibly see Orillia Folk Society's Erin Benjanin concert were thwarted by radio announcements that highway 400 was closed because of police actions - whatever that meant. Instead I visited two bookstores and listened to Sheila Fung and friends sing with her guitar seriously out of tune at the Newmarket Corner Coffee House. In one of the bookstores I bought Ira B. Nadel's various Positions, A Life of Leonard Cohen. The beautifully hardcovered book was deeply discounted, maybe remaindered. I'm not sure if defective books are technically remaindered books. Most of Canada will be remaindered soon. The major combatant in Canada's book-wars may have shot himself in the testicles, so to speak. After demanding a 50% discount on book to fill a bunch of big bookstores that he build with stock investors' money, he is returning millions upon millions of dollars worth of books to Canadian publishers. I read about this in McLean's Magazine between Sheila's sets and then went to one of his Chapter's bookstores and bought a cheap copy of the Cohen book. (Jim had a few magazines at the back of the coffee shop behind the coffee bar.) The clear plastic wrap on the book that I quickly threw in the garbage was folded backwards so the bookstore had marked down the price. To me, Cohen's bird on the wire was always one of those brilliant images. I don't know about you but I've seen birds on wires. I though nothing much of them. Cohen hit me with that image. Reading the book, it turns out that Cohen wrote, first for a set number of hours each day, then for a minimum of three pages per day. When it flowed, he wrote many more pages. He bought a house on the Greek Island of Hydra before the island had electricity. When the Greeks put up poles and wires, he noticed that the birds quickly came to the wires. Although it's still a wonderful image, I think that if you or I had the resolve to write at least three pages a day and someone put up poles and wire while we were staring out the window instead of staring at the blank page, we too might have come up with something interesting. If we just wrote three pages a day wouldn't we come up with wonderful images. Not Cohen's images but interesting ones of our own. I'm a procrastinator though. I just haven't got around to admitting it on that other thread. How about you? The second image in the song was about drunks leaving the Hydra bars late at night singing harmony. If we'd heard them sing and had better work habits, what would we have written? Something brilliant? A later section talked about his teeny poem: Marita Please find me I am almost 30 Another brilliant piece that kept me in awe of Cohen's brain until the book explained. Marita was an attractive brunette from Manitoba who once dismissed Cohen's advances with, "Go on your way young man and come back when you're thirty. " Many beautiful women have rejected me. If only I'd had the presence of mind to keep notes. Like, there was the time I asked a tall beautiful woman to dance at a tavern on Yonge Street. Being short, bordering on dwarf if you believe that liar Little Hawk, I've been attracted to tall women who might make me feel warm protected. The tall beautiful woman in the tavern laughed in my face and said, "No but I'll dance with your friend." It didn't help that one of my friend's favourite expressions was, "I don't like the one that you're getting." Another time… hey, I better grab a notebook. |
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22 Oct 00 - 02:11 PM (#324613) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: catspaw49 That'd be your 3 pages for today then huh? Spaw |
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22 Oct 00 - 02:16 PM (#324618) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Bernard Once you start analysing, you're inevitably going to explode myths! Something like going back to a childhood playground only to find that the developers got there first. Who cares why someone wrote something that means a lot to us? All that matters is the feeling it generated, which was special at that time, and the time has already passed. There is a fine line between enjoying one's memories, and living in the past (and I should know...). I have to admit I'm not a fan of Leonard Cohen, but there are many people who are. As a result, there are bound to be people who will try to discredit his obvious talent, even inadvertently. All I'm trying to say is that you should stick with your first instinct, and not try to put any construction on what his motives for writing may or may not have been. Be thankful you were a part of it... |
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22 Oct 00 - 02:18 PM (#324620) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Bernard Spaw - what's your point? |
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22 Oct 00 - 02:32 PM (#324628) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop I'm procrastinating on the three pages spaw. I have work to do that I was avoiding when I wrote that. How about you? I still enjoy Cohen, Bernard. It's just that now I feel that Bernard would write sone good poems and lyrics if he'd only write three pages a day - especially with those great memories that he has. |
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22 Oct 00 - 02:37 PM (#324631) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: catspaw49 Bernard......I was just poking a little fun at flattop's tale and the line in it about writing three pages, etc. And flats......I know I'll get around to it but first I have to develop a plan, and to do that I need to work it in to another plan that I have yet to develop, though I think I may get to it the day after tomorrow or possibly two days after that...if not three. Spaw |
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22 Oct 00 - 02:41 PM (#324633) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop So let's agree to begin next Saturday morning spaw? Three pages a day minimum after that? Anyone else? |
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22 Oct 00 - 03:04 PM (#324649) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Thyme2dream It would be interesting to read some of the three pages a day Cohen wrote. I know some writers keep a journal and use that sort of discipline to keep ideas fresh--sounds like a good idea for songwriters as well. Would it be cheating to count some of ones posts to Mudcat in the 3page tally? Seems like a lot of interesting stuff flying around these threads! |
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22 Oct 00 - 03:10 PM (#324651) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Bernard I knew that!!? Any road up, all Mudcatters are capable of three pages a day - check the threads (and I don't mean 'do you like my clothes?'!!). What would be interesting - a song written using themes from the non-lyric postings... Ouch! My brain cell hurts!! |
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22 Oct 00 - 03:12 PM (#324652) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: wildlone I once worked behind the bar in a pup in Oxfordshire, [The Bull at Nettlebed] one day the owner was away for the evening and he had said that if the bar was empty after 9pm we could shut and go home at 8-50 in walked a couple and sat with their drinks the owners son put Leonard Cohen on the pub piped music system we shut at 9pm. |
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22 Oct 00 - 03:28 PM (#324661) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Bernard There's a moral in that, somewhere... Or should I say: There's immoral in that, somewhere... |
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22 Oct 00 - 03:28 PM (#324662) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Metchosin I think, for the most part, what most writers come up with is based upon the mundane, it is their perspective upon it, wherein lies the genius. Some have it and it is truly a gift. Others will still manage, even at three pages a day, to only come up with the mundane. The ability to paint vivd images, that make connections for others, with few words, is one of the few things I truly envy. I don't think I will ever manage to do that, even at double the output and time. |
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22 Oct 00 - 03:31 PM (#324665) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Bernard Exactly. That's why I leave songwriting to those who can... |
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22 Oct 00 - 03:41 PM (#324671) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop Hey! We don't need negative shit on this thread. Writing is scary enough. Both of you have a facility for language and you both write to mudcat. My bet is that if you both write 3 pages a day minimum, in 6 months you'll have a bunch of good things with images and feelings that you will be able to edit into decent works. A good book to start with is Writing Down the Bones by Natalie Goldberg. Very positive. Good ideas. If you keep up this negativity I will have to call Praise in when she's finished her sunday church duties to back me up on your underused potential. |
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22 Oct 00 - 03:46 PM (#324676) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Bernard Ah, now! She's already conned me into co-writing a 'song' with her... |
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22 Oct 00 - 03:51 PM (#324680) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop Who? Praise or Natalie Goldberg? |
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22 Oct 00 - 03:58 PM (#324684) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: sophocleese Do three pieces of art a day count? I just finished a weekend workshop on collage and three dimensional stuff. OUt of three pictures yesterday and three box pieces I have come up with 1 picture I like and two box assemblages that I like. I'll find out next weeke if I still like them. The really fascinating thing is putting six women and the artist into the house for six hours. We all have access to the same materials and the same instructions from the artist. We came up with six completely different looking things. Then we are each startled at the way someone else has used something, leaf shaped earrings for feet, small plastic pumpkins for breasts, an old watch wound round a bolt for internal organs etc. Some use colours sparingly and others use them with enthusiasm. I'm happy with what I've done and will now have to clear the work bench downstairs so I can use it whenever I have time. |
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22 Oct 00 - 04:03 PM (#324688) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Bernard Who? Sugar Dog, of course! |
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22 Oct 00 - 04:16 PM (#324698) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: wysiwyg I was wondering how to get into this thread but now I see I must enter laughing or be counted a liar in heaven. My head about fell off, laffin. First, MY Sunday duties about 46 weeks out of the year are to sleep in and rest and pray and have ALONE TIME and recover positivity after a week of... that plus other. My church gig is on Saturday night! Next, just this AM I was thinking that some of the relentless loving encouragement I have slung about ought, if there is a God, to have worked its way out through me and into people who've had a share of it, and then keep on streaming out through them. Then here I see flattop going to it. Out-effing-standingly well, great job, couldn't have done better myself. LOL. Ow. It hurts! PA hills are ringing from it, deer running like mad. Flatster, dear, what I was thinking is this. What you have written to me in the past was of course interesting, thought-provoking, sometimes just provoking, and occasionally (only) mystifying. But I LIKED it. OK. Now I know you better. What you have written is all that is was, PLUS it is lit up by what I have come to know and see of you. *G* (There is still no substitute for really getting to know another human being....) SO. Iddinnit like that with Cohen? AND, in my own never-humble-enough opinion (NHO??? [Wasn't Humble Enough, WHO???), the trick is to manage the output, not create it. Plenty of output. File management is the key. Recognize a pearl when it comes out the unlikelier orifice, clean it up lovingly, and stow it where it can be brought out later on midnight blue velvet. You oughtta see the harvest I have from e-mail alone. And I think I must eventually publish my remarks from the nazi thread. Just when it all comes together, that's when I'll know what to do with it. And then there are the several books implied by the stuff I RECEIVE. Anyone wanna write, don't know how, or feel blocked!??? Write me!! I'll get ya going in no time! So, Flattened One-- and all others-- Write on, baby. (BTW, to anyone who does write me, 'scuse my sporadic on-and-offlineness-- modem sucks bigtime, and work computer has a few days use left. Gotta take Homegirl here back to the shop.) ~S~ motormice@hotmail.com Folders RULE!!! |
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22 Oct 00 - 04:24 PM (#324703) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: wysiwyg B! More verses! And send them to Aine for the songbook! Hahaha!! ~S~ |
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22 Oct 00 - 04:34 PM (#324707) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: okthen I allways thought the origin of bird on a wire was the small birds attached to wires flying 'round and 'round in circles untill someone bought them from the market vendor( S.E.asian markets )and set them free. something along the lines of "if you release a bird from captivity you free a soul from torment/hell" mind you i could be wrong, cheers bill |
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22 Oct 00 - 04:40 PM (#324713) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop Ah, you see Metchosin that Praise is on to Bernard and me. Ya better start writing before she get on you case too. I checked out you writing assignment Bernard. That dog ditty song will count for a page or two when you write it. (If you were Little hawk it might count for six pages since he doesn't like to write a song with fewer than 92 verses.) Sophocleese, you seem to be suffering serious thread disorder. This thread is about word pictures and word collages not glue-gun-crazed women with pumpkin breasts. Praise, it's easy to dash off a couple of pages to you when I think it might make you laugh. By the way, you were the only one of the group of four to not admit that you knew half-dead-Ted. Very discrete and saintly! Writing to mudcat should count as long as it's not the imageless feelingless drivel that we write to threads 90% of the time. Cohen didn't show the pages that he wrote to people. We don't have to show what we write. It's foundational material for our masterpieces. |
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22 Oct 00 - 04:40 PM (#324714) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Metchosin bill you're probably right, and therein lies the genius of the song, not only in the image of the phrase, but on the number of levels of understanding that it works on. |
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22 Oct 00 - 04:47 PM (#324719) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: wysiwyg Huh, flattop! I know what the topic actually is, that's all! You tipped me off! Seriously *G*-- The writing makes me smile, and think, and other lofty stuff. It is getting to know people that makes me laugh, and it is laughter so full of delight there is no other way to express the feeling. Only people seem to be able to make me do that. Real People. People being THEMSELVES. It's... like nothing else. IT IS WORTH ALL THE ATTENTION ONCE CAN PAY, TO SEE THAT, TO KNOW IT, TO BE IN COMMUNICATIUON WITH IT, AND TO LAUGH LIKE THAT. Shouting yes, in laffin. ~S~ |
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22 Oct 00 - 04:49 PM (#324720) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: wysiwyg sorry ypto above-- [ONCE] = [ONE] sumbuddy fix! ~S~ |
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22 Oct 00 - 04:51 PM (#324723) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Metchosin Praise, bein' a little bird are ye? As are we all. |
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22 Oct 00 - 04:54 PM (#324732) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: catspaw49 Mets, I couldn't agree more. And flattop I take offense that the writing I do here is 90% drivel. You aren't around all the time and in many cases have missed posts that I have made on a wide range of subjects. Imposing a limit on the quality of writing makes the task very much less enjoyable and it is through the enjoyment that genius comes. You have made a serious error in describing my stuff as 90% drivel. If you had spent any time in the research of this you would know that its all drivel. I strive to do more than a meager 90% fer chrissakes. If I have ever posted anything of value, please disregard whatever it was since I must have had a fever at the time. Spaw |
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22 Oct 00 - 05:03 PM (#324741) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop All your points are well taken spaw. I eat my words. |
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22 Oct 00 - 05:51 PM (#324775) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Thyme2dream I'm sure Cohen didn't share all of his writings with the world at large, but it might have been a lesson learned for some of the more reluctant 'pumpkins' here on this thread. How much Drivel did HE write before stumbling over the gems? Your point about perpective is well taken, Metchosin...there are gifted ones who do these things effortlessly...but surely there are an equal number of writers whose genius had a bit more elbow grease behind it? Add a bit of discipline, subtract some of the perfectionism that makes us afraid to even begin, and I'm thinking several of the folks I've been reading here would have a bit of that seemingly effortless genius sprouting out before they know it!! Hey Spaw? You ignore what I wrote...your drivel keeps me in stiches, don't fix it!! oh...and on a completely irrelevent note (well, I guess it was in the original post to this thread) if it was a slow dance you asked the tall woman in question for flattop, don't take the rejection to heart...being 6'3" myself, I had to learn real quick that there was an uncomfortable level of intimacy to the situation if my first dance with a much shorter fellow called for a close, full frontal embrace...maybe she was just shy????? |
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22 Oct 00 - 06:32 PM (#324822) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: MK (thread creep)...I was performed at an elegant cocktail party back when I attending university at Irving Layton's home (well-known Canadian poet, but perhaps not as well-known as Cohen), and Leonard Cohen was there, as well as other artistic notables. One of the guests who'd obviously had too much to drink, wandered over the Cohen who was chatting with Layton (within earshot of me) and interupted the conversation, and said to Cohen "Excuse me Leonard? It's a honour to meet you. I just wanted to tell you I thought you did really great work on Star Trek, and love the way you portrayed Doctor Spock!" Cohen with a wry smile on his face said, "Why thank you!" I nearly pissed myself then and there. |
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22 Oct 00 - 06:36 PM (#324827) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: catspaw49 And you didn't play a few strains of the "Star Trek" theme? Great story MK! LMAO Spaw |
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22 Oct 00 - 06:39 PM (#324830) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: MK True one Spaw. (Good thing Red Adair wasn't at the same party or the same drunk might have walked over the Red and asked him where Ginger was?) *BG* |
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22 Oct 00 - 07:54 PM (#324882) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop Thyme2dream, it wasn't effortless for Cohen. He had to work at it. You might want to read Ira B. Nadel's book about his struggles. In Cohen's words, "I've never written easily: most of the time I detest the process…" He credits a woman in England who made him write 3 pages a day for him being able to finish Beautiful Losers. The woman ran a house for artists and told him he could stay if he wrote 3 pages a day. After that he tried to keep the three page minimum habit. He slipped at times but he tried. I don't know how much drivel he wrote before stumbling over gems but I found that I had to work hard to find gems in Death of a Ladies Man. The gems were terrific but the book was an odd collection. Each piece had an opposing piece also written by Cohen. Often I didn't like either piece. When I found one that I like I don't think that I ever liked the twin piece. However, the book is still great because, when he hits it, he's top drawer. Take the version of It's Probably Spring that starts off, "So and so is sick of all the shit but doesn't feel that bad today because it's probably spring." Wonderful poem! No, I don't think that I tried to slow dance with the tall woman. For her, I think that it was just that she was closer in height to my friend who was about a foot taller than I was. She wasn't shy. She told me she would dance with my friend. I trust that you wouldn't be so cruel if I asked you to dance. Spaw, your writing may be closest to Cohens in subject matter and playfulness. I'm not trying to be tough on you. Examples of what I meant by drivel would be messages like the ones I posted to Help: Songs about farm folk. I wouldn't consider them creative writing. Michael, Layton appears often in this book. I've seen Layton a few times but never Cohen. Both Layton and John Kenneth Galbraith got their undergraduate degrees at the University of Guelph in agriculture I believe. I have never been to Agriculture College but I have fond memories of a visit to the town. Drop dead gorgeous memories. |
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22 Oct 00 - 07:56 PM (#324886) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: McGrath of Harlow Keep on writing and writing and writing, probably somewhere in the resulting heap there will be stuff that could be good. But the trick is seeing it there, and picking it out and seeing how you can use it.
Listen to people talking in a pub, and somewhere someone's going to say a line you could put in a poem or a song. But noone is going to tell you which line that is.
It's the same if you're doodling away with a musical instrument.
All music uses the same small number of notes.All literature uses the same bunch of letters. It's getting them in the right order that makes the difference. |
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22 Oct 00 - 08:14 PM (#324900) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop Good one McGrath. That's the spirit and sound ideas. You amaze me sometimes. Leonard S. Bernstein in his book Getting Published puts it this way: [Aim to write the story badly. But write it. The ratio of wonderful to dreadful will remain the same but more stories get written without the pressure. Failure to develop a continuous working schedule is possibly the writer's largest obstacle.]
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22 Oct 00 - 08:20 PM (#324907) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: MK Flattop, Layton was my English prof, my 1st year at York U. |
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22 Oct 00 - 08:23 PM (#324913) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop I used to see him at York and down on Bloor West. I was never a student at York, I'm basically uneducated. I worked for Youk and Ryerson libraries when I first got into systems. |
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22 Oct 00 - 08:29 PM (#324920) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: MK I got to know "Irv" fairly well. He decided straight away I was a smart ass, and took a shine to me. Second or third class he was preaching about the fact that a person could not consider themselves a poet, if no one was reading their works, 50 years after their death. Then we got to question period. I asked him if the same held true about him (being the egomaniac he was), if no one read his works 50 years after he was gone. He had no answer, and went straight to the next question, but asked to see me after class. Went and had a coffee with him and talked about this and that, and he invited me to come play at his cocktail party, which led to the infamous Cohen story I posted earlier on. |
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22 Oct 00 - 08:48 PM (#324938) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop Make that York and Ryerson Libraries. Layton was a big fan of Eric Anderson I believe. I never saw Eric either but I bought his records. And once I went to visit a girl who worked at the Riverboat. She was an interesting woman who liked Chekov and music. She like my puppy and seemed gentle and kind. We went a few places together before she invited me to her house. She smelt pretty good when I first met her - at least to a Cape Breton boy who knew a few smelts in his day. The day I went to her house her breath was so bad that I refused to get down on her mattress on the floor. She must have been coming down with an illness. She though I was nervous because her mattress was upstairs in her parents house. Not likely. To ease my mind she started to tell me about all the Riverboat performers she had slept with. The list of performers was long. Eric Anderson was on her list although we must treat that as hearsay. She may have been just boasting to impress me. Her stories didn't ease my anxiety one bit. I left rather abruptly and never returned. |
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22 Oct 00 - 09:38 PM (#324985) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Matt_R Thanks flattop--"women who might make me feel warm protected"...that was beautiful. It made me cry. |
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22 Oct 00 - 10:02 PM (#324998) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop Are you making fun of me Matt? I meant to write warm and protected. |
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22 Oct 00 - 10:07 PM (#325001) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Matt_R No, I'm not making fun of you. I really meant it. I figured that's what you meant. Anyway, it still made me cry. |
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22 Oct 00 - 10:29 PM (#325018) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop Don't cry Matt. She wouldn't dance with me either. Just order another pitcher of beer and pretend that we're happy. |
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22 Oct 00 - 10:45 PM (#325030) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Matt_R I don't drink beer either... |
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22 Oct 00 - 10:58 PM (#325037) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop Then you must write at least three pages a day. |
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22 Oct 00 - 11:01 PM (#325038) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Matt_R I did 50 on Monday, 10 on Tuesday, and 6 on Friday. Does that count? "The mermaids will not sing for me..." |
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22 Oct 00 - 11:09 PM (#325045) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop That's good but the trendline seems to be heading in the wrong direction. I'm out of here soon. I feel like a thread hog. |
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23 Oct 00 - 12:13 AM (#325086) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Thyme2dream Gee, you two are depressing me...you need a hug? (a sidey-ways one, I don't know you that well;-)) |
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23 Oct 00 - 12:27 AM (#325092) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: MK Flattop, I would have done exactly the same thing in your position. I would imagine her rhyming off her sexual diary to you, would have made you feel very warm, special and unique. (Were they Keds or PF Fylers?) *G* |
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23 Oct 00 - 10:58 AM (#325282) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: GUEST,leeneia Flattop, I think you just need somebody to talk to. Start chatting up small women and let the bookstores and Canadian publishers solve their own problems. |
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23 Oct 00 - 06:26 PM (#325681) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Jim the Bart When I was in college in the late 60's, there were two writers that always seemed to get lumped together by the "inner-lectuals" dudes in black turtleknecks looking to get lucky at them there intellectual soirees - Leonard Cohen and Rod McKuen. Most people, comparing the present critical view of both their work might think that it's just another case of time separating the wheat from the chaff. . .but I'm not so sure. I recently found "Listen to the Warm" and "Stanyon Street and Other Sorrows", by Mr. McKuen, at a used book sale and had to buy both (they were too cheap to let lie there). I keep them on the same shelves as my most treasured books. Maybe I do it out of respect for anyone who writes and succeeds at it. Maybe I do it just to confuse people. I look at them, from time to time, and can't really make up my mind. Oh yeah - the Goldberg book is really good at breaking through that wall of indifference or whatever it is that keeps you from writing from time to time. Thanks for the thread. |
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24 Oct 00 - 12:21 AM (#325848) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop No reverence for my fantasies, leenia? How tall are you? Do you want to wear heels? What I need is someone to kick my ass and tell me to write. I thought that we could form a mutual ass-kicking group here. Instead we end up chatting. Are you in for three pages Bartholomew? Who else wants to commit? You don't have to show what you've written. Just tell us that you hit it or blew it each week. |
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24 Oct 00 - 02:14 AM (#325885) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Metchosin Flattop, I didn't consider what I said as being negative, just in my case realistic. That won't stop me from writing, nor should it stop you, but I came to the conclusion a long time ago that I have my doubts that I will ever achieve anything particularly profound, eg. with the depth of Rumi or manage to grasp the wonderful ability of a Richard Thompson or Leonard Cohen, to give depth to the common place. These things, when we look at them may appear simple, but they are not.
Just because some of us will never achieve this, is no reason not to write, if only for ones own sense of accomplishment and enjoyment or because we're driven. Don't do it because you want positive feedback, writing is a journey not a destination. That doesn't mean you shouldn't allow other people to see your work. That said, you have to explore by using imagery in order to find resonance and relevance, as what you have often looked at, is finally seen. No matter who we are or what we are we still have to master our own barre chords. Consider your ass kicked, now get writing, we expect something sterling within a fortnight. :^D) |
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24 Oct 00 - 06:30 AM (#325955) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: wysiwyg flattop, Who do you think has been kicking your ass all along? I can't help it if I did it in such a way that you like it. Write, dammit, write. Go back and review the PM I sent you in response to your song circle description, and then go back and review the Simple Heroes thread (refresh it and post something truthful there, dear friend *G*), and then tell me your ass ain't been kicked. Oh, you mean it wasn't kicked ENOUGH. If that wasn't enough ass-kicking to get you going, then I would respectfully and lovingly inquire: "Well then, flattop, what is in the way of you moving toward your goal such that you need extreme ass-kickings?" Don't you know that loving someone well is more of an ass-kicking than you could possibly have imagined, and that the effects may "kick in" (hahaha) more slowly but more powerfully than the usual painful approach? Also ass-kicking is best, exchanged. Do some of it yourself if you want it back. You have to be creative about it if you want results, though. (Remember when we discovered that what I needed was to be NOT pushed? When you stopped pushing that time, it was an outstanding ass-whupping.) Go figure on that for awhile! Your loving friend and partner in ass-kicking, ~Susan |
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24 Oct 00 - 11:47 AM (#326098) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Matt_R OH! You meant 3 pages of SONGWRITING? I was just talking about my stupid CA projects. I'm not sure I have the heart to write songs anymore. |
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24 Oct 00 - 12:11 PM (#326111) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: mousethief Flattop, what exactly about the story about Cohen disillusioned you? Is it the fact that he disciplined himself to write a mininum amount each day? I find that if I force myself to write, even when there's nothing good coming, then eventually something good WILL come. The more I'm writing, the more good stuff I'm writing, even if the good stuff is less than 1% of my total output. Isn't it sort of common knowledge that a professional photographer will shoot an entire roll of film and maybe have one, maybe no saleable images on it? Why should it be any different for poets or songwriters? Or maybe I just missed something in what you're saying. Wouldn't be the first time, alas. Keep writing, brothers and sisters!
"Music was the scenery
Alex |
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24 Oct 00 - 12:17 PM (#326119) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Matt_R Yep, Alex, I'm a photography student...for each assignment we take AT LEAST 48 photos...and present only 4 of them (5 if you're lucky). --Matt |
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24 Oct 00 - 06:44 PM (#326451) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Jim the Bart I generally do write that much. Actually, I came across the three pages thing in a book called "The Artists Way" a while back and it is a really good idea. Since I've been keeping a journal more or less regularly since 1967, it should be easy, but the problem is that I'm always so succinct and to the point that three pages is unnecessary(Yeah, I know, anyone who has fought their way through my posts is groaning about now). |
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25 Oct 00 - 12:02 AM (#326683) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop Please don't give me that crap about being realistic, Metchosin. You are bright, articulate, knowledgeable, and you have a good sense of humour. You might even have feelings. Are you in for three pages or do you just want to tell me that you don't want to do it? I know, you are already writing and you don't need this. I wasn't going to start until next Saturday myself but I'm feeling those kicks. I had no intentions of trying to compete with Cohen. His wasn't even the kind of writing that I wanted to do. I plan things and then run away from them. I feel like the character in the Henry Miller book who has the perfect novel in his head but hasn't been able to write a word of it. I wasn't disillusioned mousethief. On the contrary, I found it refreshing that Cohen struggled too. The difference is that he got a word or two down on the page. Are you in for three pages too Praise or do you just like booting my butt? Good to see that Bartholomew is ahead of the game. What's a CA project Matt? I was hoping to encourage creative writing or lyrics or fiction. |
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25 Oct 00 - 12:08 AM (#326687) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: Matt_R CA= Communication Arts, AKA Commercial Art. Projects were: 50 complete ideas of different ways of looking at the most boring object ever, in as many different medias as possible; 2 rolls of film (48 shots in all) with 4 to be contact printed and put up for crit; and 6 typographic explorations of one letter in black & white overlapping compositional relationships. That sorta stuff. |
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25 Oct 00 - 12:11 AM (#326689) Subject: RE: Birds on Wires From: flattop So, you're having fun? |