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29 Oct 00 - 01:14 AM (#329579) Subject: Lyr Add: MARY AMBREE From: Thomas the Rhymer MARY AMBREE
When captains courageous, whom death could not daunt, |
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29 Oct 00 - 02:49 PM (#329815) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: GUEST,Bruce O. For several 17th century texts see ZN2826 in the broadside ballad index at www.erols.com/olsonw. The ballad was noted to be sung to the tune of "The Blind Beggar's Daughter" Wm. Chappell in PMOT, I, p. 160, gave what he said was the tune, but his evidence for the identity of it wasn't very strong, and C. M. Simpson didn't include it (or any other) in 'The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music'. However, there are several traditional versions of "The Blind Beggar's Daughter" collected with tunes. Laws' N27 = Roud #132. One cited by Law's 'N27' can be found in the DT.
Gaunt was the English name for Ghent, and the action supposedly took place in 1584. Mary Ambree, however, is unknown to historians. |
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29 Oct 00 - 06:41 PM (#329940) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: Thomas the Rhymer Bruce, again,...thanks! In the words of our great western American archetype, "GO AHEAD,... MAKE MY DAY!...." *BG* ;o) |
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30 Oct 00 - 12:17 AM (#330185) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: Abby Sale It's a very important song to some - being the first-in- type (well, the 1st fully developed & with tune) of the female warrior-sailor. The prime of all the female warrior/soldier/sailor songs. (See Dugaw) Not totally the first song & not by 100 years the first well-recorded event but prime. I've been seeking historical details for some time & would much appreciate it if any have any. We know of the extensive warfare at that place & time - largely of the Spanish trying to maintain its hold on the low countries. Not only is Ambree's name unknown, I haven't really been able to confirm English & especially English naval action there. (They would have been on the Defence team.) We know the Spaniard Farnese of Parma lay siege to Ghent in 1584 but I can't find the exact date. I have this e-mail response from the Official Tourist Service of Gent, 20 Jan 1997: We have got a letter of the Archives of the City. The Reconciliation was on 17 August 1585. No British armee was there, exept some Scottisch who fighted at Lillo. All the others were Italians, Spanish, French. Paul Cornelis. |
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06 Mar 01 - 01:06 AM (#411796) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: Thomas the Rhymer Hiya! I wonder if this song is slated for the 'trad... I hope so... |
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06 Mar 01 - 01:18 AM (#411800) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: GUEST Using what for the tune? |
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06 Mar 01 - 01:34 AM (#411805) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: Thomas the Rhymer When it comes to the old ballads, your 'guest' is as good as mine! When a song like this surfaces, so too may a tune for it arise. Lots of songs in the 'trad have tuneless standing, and one of my favorites is the "song of the wandering angus"... which got it's tune much later on. |
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09 Mar 01 - 11:24 AM (#414052) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: nutty Abby - I knew I had info on this ballad ...... it has just taken time to find it The ballad was collected by Dr Thomas Percy , Bishop of Dromore , 1729 - 1811 Together with 49 others all dating from the time of Chaucer up to Charles 1st , it was published in RELIQUES OF ENGLISH POETRY IN 1765. The documents of this collection are held in the British Museum although it is said that among the authentic documents were some that Percy had himself composed The copy I have is in the "The BLUE POETRY BOOK for Schools" edited by ANDREW LAING and published by Longman, Greens and co in 1892 This version has two verses which are omitted from the copy given above, which come before the last verse and add even more mystery to the origins of the ballad The Prince of Great Parma heard of her renown Who long had advanced for England's fair crown He wooed her and sued her his mistress to be And offered rich presents to Mary Ambree But this virtuous maiden despised them all "I'll ne'er sell my honour for purple and pall A maiden of England , Sir , never shall be The wench of a monarch , quoth Mary Ambree
Also the first line of the second verse is stated as :-
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09 Mar 01 - 01:36 PM (#414149) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: nutty I'd be very interested to hear of any new information you might discover about this song ...... also where can I get access to a tune?? |
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09 Mar 01 - 05:15 PM (#414253) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: GUEST Then why don't you read the pervious posts above.? |
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09 Mar 01 - 06:21 PM (#414289) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: Joe Offer Yes, it's marked for harvesting for the DT, but I haven't got time to work on it just now. -Joe Offer- |
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10 Mar 01 - 10:41 AM (#414617) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: Malcolm Douglas Bruce explained about the tune earlier in this thread, as GUEST points out. A number of versions of The blind beggar's daughter of Bethnal Green have been found in tradition; the one in the DT was collected by Dr. George Gardiner from George Digweed of Micheldelver, Hampshire, in 1906, though the file makes no mention of this. Click to play Midi. Two tune variants found by Lucy Broadwood in Surrey were published in The Journal of the Folk Song Society (vol.1, no.4, 1902). Malcolm |
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16 Aug 01 - 01:05 PM (#529335) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: Thomas the Rhymer Hey, Joe, My Good Man! How About This??? At least it is a fine academic exercise... And a darn cool song to boot... No Pun Intended...ttr |
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16 Aug 01 - 01:14 PM (#529344) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: MMario He said he has it marked...and he is currently on vacation. My question - when I try to put tune to lyrics - I find I need to repeat the last line of each verse. (This is true also for Blind Beggers daughter) - Does anyone know if this would be "kosher"? |
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16 Aug 01 - 01:16 PM (#529348) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: MMario sorry - I take that back. My eye strayed... |
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17 Aug 01 - 06:31 AM (#529998) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: masato sakurai "Mary Ambree" is discussed in Dianne Dugaw's Warrior Women and Popular Balladry 1650-1850 (Cambridge, 1989) [esp. chapter 1: "Popular balladry, Mary Ambree, and the beginnings of the Female warrior motif, 1600-1650"]. In it, she quotes a full version with music, and there are some pictures of broadsides. But I must confess I haven't read the book yet.
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17 Aug 01 - 10:06 PM (#530572) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: Abby Sale Masoto, see my post above. It's a good book, very much worth reading. It gives a fine discussion of an important area of folk song. |
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04 May 08 - 12:25 PM (#2332661) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Mary Ambree From: Charley Noble I find it interesting that C. Fox Smith uses the name of this "woman warrior" as the title of one of her more important poems: Shipmates (Clipper Ship Mary Ambree) These are the men that sailed with me In the Colonies clipper Mary Ambree. These are the men that kept her going Through the fog and the ice and the big gales blowing: Skipper and bosun, mates and sails, Tough as leather and hard as nails, Wise in the ways of seas and ships, Soaked in brine to the finger-tips. These are the chaps that toiled together In Trade and Doldrum and black Horn weather: Stood their trick on a beggarly whack Of junk and limejuice and mouldy tack, Scoured and holystoned, reefed and furled, Watch and watch round the whole wet world, Hauled and sweated at sheets and braces With the sun in their eyes or the sleet in their faces, Fought and fisted the frozen courses On footropes jumping like bucking horses. These are the men that sailed and manned, Worked her and drove her from land to land, Most of 'em gone, as the ships are gone, For times must change, as the old words run, And men change with 'em, we know full well; For worse or for better? Time will tell. This only is certain, ships and men, We never shall build their likes again. Notes: From Full Sail: More Sea Songs and Ballads, edited by Cicely Fox Smith, published by Houghton Mifflin Co., New York, US, © 1926, prologue. Cheerily, Charley Noble |