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07 Sep 97 - 12:17 AM (#11922) Subject: Barde: From: rechal Hmmm...perhaps Tim Jaques has heard of this group. They're French Canadian. Does anyone know the lyrics to this phenomenonally melancholy song? |
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07 Sep 97 - 07:13 PM (#11941) Subject: RE: Barde: From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca I have not only heard of them, I saw them at a folk festival in Campbellton NB in the early 1980's. Valdy played too. Great band, but unfortunately I don't have the lyrics. I don't think I ever did have any of their vinyl, although my friends certainly did. Is any of their older material out in CD? |
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07 Sep 97 - 07:47 PM (#11943) Subject: RE: Barde: From: rechal Haven't seen it. I do have one album of theirs on vinyl, though not the one in question. |
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07 Sep 97 - 07:51 PM (#11944) Subject: RE: Barde: From: bigj Can't help with the lyrics. sorry; them bein' in French, but the group recorded the song on an LP that appeared on the Decca Emerald label in 1978 (GES 1189) was the serial no. Members were Richard Chapman/ Toby Cinnseallae/ Pierre Guerin/ Cris Macrayallaiy/ Ed Moore & Elliott Sellick |
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22 Sep 97 - 06:57 PM (#12884) Subject: Lyr Add: LES TROIS HOMMES NOIRS From: bigj LES TROIS HOMMES NOIRS Le soir des noces apres l'souper Trois hommes noirs sont arrives Trois hommes noirs sont arrives Ont demande la mariee La mariee n'est pas ici Venez donc vous y mettre a table Nous n'voulons ni boire ni manger Mais nous voulons fort bien danser. Ils ont pas fait trois pas de danse Qu'la mariee fut enlevee Qu'la mariee fut enlevee Sans que personne put l'empecher Le lendemain dans son jardin Le beau galant qui s'y promene C'qu'il apercoit venir vers lui Le diable en forme de cavalier "Oh dis-moi donc mon cher galant Tes belles noces d'hier au soir" Mes belles noces d'hier au soir Ma mariee fut enlevee. Mets donc ton pied dessus le mien Je t'y f'rai voir Marie ta mie Je t'y amenerai je t'y ramenerai Sans aucun mal je t'y ferai. Quand il fut rendu aux enfers Il apercoit Marie sa mie Marie ma mie suis-je tu la cause Qu'aujourd'hui-ci tu es ici. Oh, Non, Oh, Non mon cher galant Ce n'est pas toi qu'en est la cause C'est les trois mechants freres qui j'ai Qu'on fait jurer de pas m'marier L'anneau d'or que j'ai dans le doigt Je t'en suplie de m'la laisser Si tu lui oteras ca du doigt Je m'en vais y tranchir le cou. Oh j'en n'avais que pour 3 mois 3 mois et puis quelques semaines Apres qu'ca ma bague est otee J'en ai pour tout' l'eternite. These words come to you courtesy of Mlle Annie Nedellec my friend and local French Consular Agent. However, since she is Breton/French and the song is French/Canadian she's a bit worried, but take it as it comes. Ah, Joe, you'd be proud of me. |
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22 Sep 97 - 08:36 PM (#12899) Subject: RE: Barde: From: rechal Merci, merci, merci encore. |
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22 Sep 97 - 08:43 PM (#12900) Subject: RE: Barde: From: rechal Merci, merci, merci encore. |
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23 Sep 97 - 05:06 AM (#12940) Subject: RE: Barde: From: Joe Offer I can make out just enough of "LES TROIS HOMMES NOIRS" to be very interested. Mom was a French teacher, but I took German and Latin. Sorry, Mom. Can anybody manage a translation for us barbarians? -Joe Offer- |
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23 Sep 97 - 09:50 AM (#12955) Subject: Lyr Add: LES TROIS HOMMES NOIRS + translation From: charles@ccl.umist.ac.uk Here's a translation, as best I can. For those of you that follow (some of) the French I've tried to put the words and their meanings in parallel. It's pidgin English but you'll get a clearer idea what means what. Enjoy, Charles :-) LES TROIS HOMMES NOIRS |
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23 Sep 97 - 04:01 PM (#12981) Subject: RE: Barde: From: Joe Offer Thanks, Charles. I see I got less of an understanding of the song than I thought. I thought the bride was a willing participant. Guess I'd better study French. -Joe Offer- |
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23 Sep 97 - 04:10 PM (#12983) Subject: RE: Barde: From: Shula Dear Charles, Does "noir" in this context indicate race, the "choleric humour," or perhaps, the long black gowns of clergy, as in "Blackrobe"? Or is there an alternate possibility? L'histoire et le provenance de votre chanson, s'il vous plait? Merci, Shula |
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24 Sep 97 - 07:50 AM (#13033) Subject: RE: Barde From: c.boisvert@open.ac.uk > Does "noir" in this context indicate race, the > "choleric humour," or perhaps, the long black > gowns of clergy, as in "Blackrobe"? Or is there an > alternate possibility? It's morally black, evil. > L'histoire et le provenance > de votre chanson, s'il vous plait? I don't know where it comes from. It's not literary French - it could come from Quebec or from a rural part of France (eg Britanny). And it's old but not very old (18th century?). Never heard the story before.
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25 Sep 97 - 05:23 PM (#13199) Subject: RE: Barde: From: Nonie Rider I'd assume "noir" to mean "black-haired," though maybe with overtones of evil. Before serious immigration of dark-skinned folks into Western Europe, "black" was usually a hair description, just as you might say "blond" rather than "blond-haired." Black Bess, Black Irish, and so on.
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26 Sep 97 - 09:40 AM (#13231) Subject: noir = black-haired ? From: Charles > I'd assume "noir" to mean "black-haired" French has specific words for hair colour (black-haired is brun). So we wouldn't think of the hair colour. You're right though about noir not being at first about the skin. In France it came to mean your skin is tanned and dirty, and all the usual prejudices apply. Think of Heathcliffe.
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27 Sep 97 - 05:12 AM (#13316) Subject: RE: Barde: From: Joe Offer How about "swarthy" as a translation for "noir," Charles? It seems to have the same "shade" of meaning you suggest. Excuse the pun - I just couldn't help myself. -Joe Offer- |
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29 Sep 97 - 05:36 AM (#13438) Subject: RE: Barde: From: Charles Sounds good. That's where your English is a lot better than mine, so you folks can take over (that's partly why I didn't translate the song "properly". A few years ago I had a stab at translating Jacques Brel & Georges Brassens songs, but I've more or less given up. Charles
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04 Mar 10 - 07:06 PM (#2856298) Subject: RE: Barde: "Trois Hommes Noirs" From: GUEST,rechal -- 13 years later I used to follow this board a lot, then lost track. Imagine my surprise when I was searching for this song (in the vain hopes that someone had digitized it), and found my nickname in this thread. Spooky! |
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04 Mar 10 - 07:54 PM (#2856342) Subject: RE: Barde: "Trois Hommes Noirs" From: Monique Some alternate verses/other versions and a score here (book in French) |
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05 Mar 10 - 01:04 AM (#2856490) Subject: RE: Barde: "Trois Hommes Noirs" From: Joe Offer Rechal-I've been wondering what happened to you. I hope you're well. -Joe Offer- joe@mudcat.org |
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05 Mar 10 - 07:04 AM (#2856640) Subject: RE: Barde: 'Trois Hommes Noirs' From: Monique LES TROIS HOMMES NOIRS Le soir des noces après l' souper Trois hommes noirs sont arrivés Trois hommes noirs sont arrivés Ont demandé la mariée. La mariée n'est pas ici Venez donc vous y mettre à table Nous n' voulons ni boire ni manger Mais nous voulons fort bien danser. Ils ont pas fait trois pas de danse Qu' la mariée fut enlevée Qu' la mariée fut enlevée Sans que personne pût l'empêcher. Le lendemain dans son jardin Le beau galant qui s'y promène C' qu'il aperçoit venir vers lui Le diable en forme de cavalier "Oh dis-moi donc mon cher galant Tes belles noces d' hier au soir" Mes belles noces d' hier au soir Ma mariée fut enlevée. Mets donc ton pied dessus le mien Je t'y f'rai voir Marie ta mie Je t'y amènerai je t'y ramènerai Sans aucun mal je t'y ferai. Quand il fut rendu aux enfers Il aperçoit Marie sa mie Marie ma mie suis-je la cause Qu'aujourd'hui-ci tu es ici ? Oh non, oh non, mon cher galant Ce n'est pas toi qu'en est la cause C'est les trois méchants frères qui j'ai Qu'ont fait jurer de pas m' marier L'anneau d'or que j'ai dans le doigt Je t'en supplie de m' le laisser Si tu lui ôteras ça du doigt Je m'en vais y tranchir le cou. Oh j'en n'avais que pour trois mois Trois mois et puis quelques semaines Après qu' ça ma bague est ôtée J'en ai pour tout' l'éternité. THE THREE BLACK MEN On the wedding night after dinner Three black men arrived Three black men arrived They asked for the bride. The bride is not here Do come to sit at the (dinner) table We want neither drink nor eat But we'd dance willingly. They had not done three steps of dance That the bride was taken away That the bride was taken away Without anyone could stop it The morrow in his garden The handsome lover who is having a walk Sees the devil in form of horseman Come towards him. Oh do tell me my dear lover Your beautiful wedding of yesterday night My beautiful wedding of yesterday night My bride was taken away Do put your foot on top of mine I will make you see Marie your love I will take you there I will you bring back Without doing you any harm. When he was arrived in hell He glimpses his love Marie. Marie my love am I the reason Why you are here today? Oh no, oh no, my dear lover You are not the reason/ you're not involved It's the three evil brothers that I have That have done me swear not to get married The gold ring I have on my finger I pray you to leave it to me If you take it out from her finger I'm going to cut/chop the neck* Oh I had only three months left Three months and also a few weeks Now my ring has been taken out It will last (I'll stay here) forever. The two last lines are unclear "Si tu lui ôteras ça du doigt / je m'en vais y tranchir le cou" that translate as "If you will take it out from her finger, I'm going to chop the neck" seem to be told by devil speaking to the young man. It's weird that the young man would take the ring out from her finger if his or her neck is to be chopped. In a variant from the book I linked to in my previous post, the verse goes: -Le jonc que j'ai dedans le doigt / je vous prie bien de me l' laisser -Mais si tu ôtes pas du coup / je m'en vais te râper le cou "The ring/band I have on my finger, I pray you to leave it to me" "But if you don't take it at once, I'm going to shred your neck" … which would explain why the young man takes the wedding band from her bride's finger if the last lines are said by the devil so that the young man would take it out from her finger causing her to stay forever in hell, or why the bride removes her wedding band from her finger if the last lines are said by the jealous young man. I'd want also to confirm that "black" doesn't refer to race nor to the color of their hair or clothes. They're "dark" men coming from hell, so they're supposed to be swarthy/dark grayish. Grammar points: 1- in these old songs "y" seldom means "there" as in present French, it's just an expletive and can be omitted in translations. 2- in command sentences, "donc" doesn't mean "then", it's a way to insist: "Venez donc vous y mettre à table" (2nd verse) translates as "Do come to sit at the dinner table" with an expletive –then useless- "y". |
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26 May 10 - 02:22 PM (#2914770) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Les Trois Hommes Noirs (Barde) From: GUEST,Éléanore Black actually refers to the color of clothing they are wearing. Because in most of the versions of that song they say "trois hommes EN noir" wich mean three men IN black. In Québec's legends the devil(or is men) is often described as a men dressed in black who love to dance ( wich was considered a sin after midnight) |
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28 Aug 10 - 09:46 AM (#2974543) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Les Trois Hommes Noirs (Barde) From: GUEST,Un québécois Trois hommes noirs. Three men with black souls. In another context it could mean «three men in black», «three blaqck men» or «three black hair men». (Sorry for my English is not really good. In the sixties, a folk group from Québec sang it. «Les Cailloux». (Another group with the same name sang in France). «y» means «there» as «là». |
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07 Jan 18 - 10:21 PM (#3898006) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Les Trois Hommes Noirs (Barde) From: GUEST The Canadian group “Hart Rouge” also sings this song. |
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08 Jan 18 - 08:13 AM (#3898050) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Les Trois Hommes Noirs (Barde) From: Mrrzy Brun/Brune is brunet/brunette, eg brown-haired, not black-haired. They could easily mean black-haired. Is it that if he takes the ring back she has to stay in hell forever? |
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09 Jun 19 - 05:06 PM (#3995757) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Les Trois Hommes Noirs (Barde) From: GUEST,Lapaget I heard the song thirty years ago and still remember: “Trois hommes en noir sont arrivè” Which means “Three men dressed in black did arrive” which makes sense And also metric, voyel accented singing as follows: Trois hòmmes en nòir sont àrr ivè |
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09 Jun 19 - 05:17 PM (#3995759) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Les Trois Hommes Noirs (Barde) From: GUEST,Lapaget Reference: Novelle revue de tradition populaires n 1 1950 Page 6 Le diable au bal Le monde fantastique dans le folklore de la Vienne ... à force de tourner c’était le Diable qu’a emporté la jeune fille ... |
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09 Jun 19 - 07:00 PM (#3995768) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Les Trois Hommes Noirs (Barde) From: Monique Youtube here by "Les Malurons". Another one here by "Les Cailloux". |
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09 Jun 19 - 10:49 PM (#3995781) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Les Trois Hommes Noirs (Barde) From: GUEST,Gerry The Barde album is available on CD from Amazon, but with no liner notes, no record label, no date of release; just a reproduction of the front cover of the original vinyl release, the track listing, and the music. |
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10 Jun 19 - 02:14 AM (#3995788) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Les Trois Hommes Noirs (Barde) From: Monique Barde's rendition |
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10 Jun 19 - 03:30 AM (#3995797) Subject: Trois hemmes EN noir From: GUEST,Lapaget Please search “Trois hommes en noir” with “en”, which has a meaning in French https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C9BKJA_enIT725IT726&hl=it&biw=768&bih=909&ei=9QH-XN-mO4PhkgWv-7P4Aw&q=%E2%80%9Ctrois+hommes+en+noir+sont+arriv%C3%A9s%E2%80%9D&oq=%E2%80%9Ctrois+hommes+en+noir+sont+arriv%C3%A9s%E2%80%9D&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.3...27224.30070..30937...0.0..0.665.897.2-1j5-1......0....1.LooZQDli8co Listen here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l4DwB147080 Pubblicato il 2 giu 2013 Chanson "Trois hommes en noir" tirée de l'album "On n'est pas sorti de l'auberge" disponible en vente à l'Auberge du dragon rouge. On entend bien le “en” Or: Chansons folkloriques à sujet religieux https://books.google.it/books?id=VZiP7Nj-v4UC&pg=PA321&lpg=PA321&dq=%E2%80%9Ctrois+hommes+en+noir+sont+arriv%C3%A9s%E2%80%9D&source=bl&ots=aALx3Svd1g&sig=ACfU3U2c4vNaxFVtDi88xFaMKY9t4qx2eA&hl=it&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiFtLjard7iAhUG-aQKHUZIBQ8Q6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=%E2%80%9Ctrois%20hommes%20en%20noir%20sont%20arriv%C3%A9s%E2%80%9D&f=false and many others |
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10 Jun 19 - 05:09 AM (#3995803) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Les Trois Hommes Noirs (Barde) From: Monique Even if the original song was "trois hommes en noir" (three men [dressed] in black) it doesn't alter the fact that some people understood it as "trois hommes noirs" (three black men) and it certainly made sense for them. These black men are not "Black" from anywhere in the world but their skin is dark because they come from Hell and they are usually portrayed (or imagined) as if somewhat overbaked in an oven. At least it's how pictures of these men from Hell generally appear in folk tales books. |
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11 Jun 19 - 03:56 AM (#3995919) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Les Trois Hommes Noirs (Barde) From: GUEST,Lapaget À vous de juger: "Chansons folkloriques à sujet religieux par Conrad Laforte, page 321: Plusieurs versions possèdent les strophes suivantes en guise d'introduction. Le soir de noces après souper trois hommes en noir sont arrivés" c'est à dire: habillés en noir Les trois hommes sont les frères de la mariée: "Ce sont trois méchants frères que j'avais Qui m'avaient fait jurer trois fois Dessus la tête de Saint-André De ne jamais me marier. Le diable est sorti de l'enfer ... " http://www.songtextemania.com/la_mariee_chez_satan_songtext_alaska.html "La Mariée Chez Satan Songtext Le soir des noces après souper On entend frapper à la porte. Trois hommes en noir y sont entrés Ils ont demandé la mariée. - La mariée n'est pas ici Venez vous asseoir à la table. - Nous ne voulons ni boire ni manger Nous ne voulons que fort bien danser. Y'avaient pas fait trois tours de danse Voilà la mariée qui entre. La mariée fut enlevée Sans que personne pût l'empêcher. Le diable est sorti de l'enfer ... le beau galant ... Et quand il fut dans les enfers, Il aperçut Marie, sa mie. - Marie, ma mie, si t'es ici, Est-ce bien moi qui en est la cause? - Ah! non. Ah! non, mon beau galant Ce n'est pas toi qui en est la cause. Ce sont trois méchants frères que j'avais Qui m'avaient fait jurer trois fois Dessus la tête de Saint-André De ne jamais me marier. Le diable est sorti de l'enfer ... " |
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11 Jun 19 - 01:11 PM (#3995991) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Les Trois Hommes Noirs (Barde) From: Monique Personne ne dit que l'original n'est pas "trois hommes en noir", mais ça n'empêche pas le fait que si certains ont compris "trois hommes noirs", c'est que ça a aussi un sens, qui n'est pas l'original, certes, mais qui en un tout de même. Idem s'ils avaient été "en" gris avec un tout autre sens pour "gris". Il n'y aurait pas eu de confusion possible s'ils avaient été en bleu clair, vert foncé, jaune citron ou rouge cerise! |
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11 Jun 19 - 01:21 PM (#3995992) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Les Trois Hommes Noirs (Barde) From: Monique Maybe you guys need a translation. I meant... Nobody says that the original is not "trois hommes en noir" (= three men in black), but that does not prevent the fact that if some people understood "trois hommes noirs" (= three black men), it's because the latter also has a meaning, which is not the original one indeed, but has a meaning all the same. Ditto if they'd been "in" gray with a quite different meaning for "gris" (in Fr. it also means "tipsy"). There would have been no confusion if they had been in light blue, dark green, lemon yellow or cherry red! |
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12 Jun 19 - 12:19 PM (#3996092) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Les Trois Hommes Noirs (Barde) From: GUEST,Lapaget Every option is possible, devil’s color depends on the time the song was created. In http://www.colorability.it/2014/03/di-che-colore-e-il-diavolo.html (sorry in Italian but translation services can be used) it is well shown how and why the devil’s color changed through ages, being completely black as the night in XI century, green (color of Islam) in XII century, blue as the sky for economic reasons in France in XIII century, red as sin since the times of Lutero. Gray (gris) would also be possible in case of a comic song, “gris” meaning drunk. |