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09 Dec 96 - 09:40 AM (#697) Subject: The Magpie From: Martin Ryan Anyone know anything more about "The Magpie" - apart from the bald statement in the DT that It was written by "Dave Dodds"? Thanks Martin Ryan |
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09 Dec 96 - 07:51 PM (#705) Subject: Lyr/Chords Add: MAGPIE'S NEST (from Peter Kennedy) From: Doc Hi Martin! In Peter Kennedy's book "Folksongs of Britain and Ireland" there's a tune called the "Magpie's Nest". He classifies it as a "song of seduction". [4/4 time] The lyrics follow:
(C) For if (C) I were a king
(Chorus: Mouth music at a little quicker pace)
For the magpie's nest
For I have wandered all through Kerry
Hope this helps - beware of the chord changes in the chorus. |
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13 Dec 96 - 05:46 PM (#777) Subject: RE: The Magpie From: LaMarca The Magpie uses an old children's counting rhyme for its chorus; the same rhyme "One's for sorrow, two's for joy, etc" is used for counting crows (there's a gorgeous children's picture book of it by an author whose name escapes me; I have it at home) and for counting bluebirds (there's a Jean Ritchie song about that). Other than that, David Dodds simply compiled many of the old folk beliefs about magpies and other members of the corvine family into a really neat song. |
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14 Dec 96 - 09:24 AM (#781) Subject: RE: The Magpie From: dick greenhaus Oh, THAT Magpie. It's in the database: Search for Magpie. THE MAGPIE (DT lyrics) The magpie brings us tidings Of news both fair and foul; She's more cunning than the raven, More wise than any owl. She brings us news of the harvest Of barley, wheat, and corn. She knows when we'll go to our graves How we shall be born. One's for sorrow, Two's for joy, Three's for a girl and four's for a boy. Five for silver, Six for gold, And seven for a secret never told. Devil, devil, I defy thee. Devil, devil, I defy thee. Devil, devil, I defy thee. She brings us joy when from the right, Grief when from the left. Of all the news that's in the air We know to trust her best. For she sees us at our labor, And she mocks us at our work. She steals the egg from out of the nest, And she can mob the hawk. CHORUS The priest, he says we're wicket To worship the devil's bird. Ah, but we respect the old ways And we disregard his word. For we know they rest uneasy As we slumber in the night; And we always leave a little bit of meat For the bird that's black and white. CHORUS Written by Dave Dodds, copyright Folktracks Recorded on SATISFIED CUSTOMERS, Sally Rogers and Howard Bursen, Thrushwood Records 003. @animal filename[ MAGPIDFY DC |
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16 Dec 96 - 04:37 AM (#798) Subject: RE: The Magpie From: LaMarca: Many thanks. I half-guessed that it might be somethning like that. I've seen the "Devil, Devil.." bit quoted as a kind of charm. As you say, a great song anyway and a perfect air. Best Wishes Dick I knew it was there - it was what it meant that was puzzling me! Martin |
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25 Dec 96 - 12:14 PM (#881) Subject: RE: The Magpie From: Mike Watson Coincidence time! I heard the Magpie a few years ago when 'Belles of the North' stayed with my morris side on a UK tour, and have been trying to get the words ever since. On my first visit to these pages, I find the words and a thread on the subject! I have nothing to add on the origin, but I wonder if anyone out there could post the tune - I cant remember that either. Mike Watson Maldon U.K.
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26 Dec 96 - 08:47 AM (#891) Subject: RE: The Magpie From: Bert Hansell A related issue.... We had a counting song as kids which we used to count sneezes. I was told that it was also used to count magpies. It goes. "Once a wish, twice a kiss, three times a letter, four times soemthig better" By the way Mike; is that Maldon, Essex? We used to go folk dancing at the Youth Hostel there. |
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09 Jan 97 - 02:40 PM (#1234) Subject: RE: The Magpie From: MIke Watson, Maldon Still hoping that someone might let me have the tune for the 'magpie'. Yes, Bert, it is that Maldon, tho the YH is no longer there (i believe it is a house now). |
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07 Nov 01 - 09:31 AM (#587385) Subject: RE: The Magpie From: MMario the tune for "The Magpie" (the Dave Dodd tune) is still "missing" - anyone know it? |
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07 Nov 01 - 01:25 PM (#587544) Subject: RE: The Magpie From: GUEST,MCP The magpie was meant to be a portent of evil and on seeing one you were meant to say "Devil, devil I defy thee" and spit, to counteract the effect. Dave Dodds had a story about giving a lift to an old woman who did this and then spit on the floor of his new Jaguar, not to his best pleasure. (I think that was the story anyway). Dave Dodds was a regular visitor to the Herga FC, (Wealdstone, UK) in the late '70s (IIRC) before he moved down to Devon. I've heard nothing of him in recent years
If I put my mind to it(have to think about the verse a bit - I haven't heard the song for quite a few years) I could probably give you the tune. I'll get back on this. Mick |
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07 Nov 01 - 01:30 PM (#587546) Subject: RE: The Magpie From: MMario *gotta love this place!* Anything you can manage....grazie |
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08 Nov 01 - 06:23 AM (#588115) Subject: Tune Add: THE MAGPIE From: GUEST,MCP Here is the tune as promised (and as I recall it - any emendations welcome):
Mick
The/ magpie brings us/ tidings of/ news both fair and/ foul
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08 Nov 01 - 10:21 AM (#588213) Subject: RE: The Magpie From: MMario Thank you! |
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08 Nov 01 - 10:31 AM (#588220) Subject: RE: The Magpie From: MMario NWC file sent to Joe. MCP - Extra thanks for the "/" marks! makes setting the lyric to the tune a snap. |
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08 Nov 01 - 10:45 AM (#588228) Subject: RE: The Magpie From: lamarca Nice to see this thread resolved - The Magpie is still one of my favorite songs to sing. I don't have the foggiest notion how to annotate melodies on the computer, though. I learned it from the US group, Magpie (Greg Artzner and Terry Leonino), and Sally Rogers and Howie Bursen have also recorded it over here. It's a haunting song, and is fun to sing in parallel fifths with a partner. |
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08 Nov 01 - 11:12 AM (#588249) Subject: RE: The Magpie From: GUEST,MCP MMario - my pleasure.
If you want to mail me a copy of the current missing tunes list, I'll have a look and see what I can come up with. You can reach me at MCPearce0ATaolDOTcom (with suitable substitutions. BTW that's a zero at the end of the name). Mick |
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08 Nov 01 - 11:12 AM (#588250) Subject: RE: The Magpie From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Great song! Regards |
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08 Nov 01 - 11:34 AM (#588262) Subject: RE: The Magpie From: MMario lamarca - I will take scans/pdf's/gifs of sheet music, or even handwritten snail-mailed stuff...(*grin*)(and for those abc or midi impaired - can provide the same for many of the "found" tunes) Mick - the file is on the way - feel free to ask for updates as well - because it changes almost daily. |
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30 Dec 03 - 04:22 AM (#1082192) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie From: GUEST,claire i know a different version it goes like this 1 for sorrow 2 for joy 3for a girl 4for a boy 5 for silver 6 for gold 7 for a secreat never to be told 8 for a wish 9 for a kiss 1 10 for a time of joyous bliss |
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30 Dec 03 - 03:41 PM (#1082630) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie From: GUEST,Martin Gibson I thought the Magpie song was about Heckel & Jeckel. One of them was even British. |
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04 Mar 04 - 06:04 AM (#1128953) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Can anyone tell me if Dave Dodds is still alive/active/contactable? A friend of mine may be recording this song and wants to do the decent... Regards |
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04 Mar 04 - 10:15 AM (#1129072) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie From: GUEST,MCP Martin I haven't heard anything of him for years, but if he's still about Johnny Collins or Jim Mageean will probably have a contact for him. If noone puts anything up in the meantime, I'll give one of them a call later and see if they know. (I'm rebuilding my computer now, so that's contingent on it going well!) Mick |
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04 Mar 04 - 10:36 AM (#1129086) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie From: GUEST,Maritn Ryan Mick I was talking ot Jim McGeean a few weeks ago, as it happens - he was in Dublin for a weekend. I hadn't been asked for the details at that stage - but had the impression that Jim had lost contcsat with him. He told the spitting story, alright! Regrads p.s. Give my regards to Jim if you're talking to him. Tell him the carol-singer says hello! |
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06 Jul 04 - 06:04 PM (#1220202) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie From: GUEST,Wouko Davy Dodds used to sing in a band called Red Jasper. They recorded the song The Magpie. The band did split up somewhere around the millenium. |
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26 May 05 - 06:11 PM (#1493900) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie From: GUEST,guest who Isn't it- 10 for a bird you will not miss? Probably changed it or I heard different version? |
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10 Jun 09 - 07:17 PM (#2653574) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie From: Bryony Hello, does anyone have any further info on Dave Dodds or this song? We're starting to perform it out with The Demon Barbers and I don't know much about it. I first heard it as a floor spot at a folk club and the tune stayed in my head, then I was reminded of it when I heard it on Liz and Paul Davenport's album. Cheers, Bryony |
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07 Jan 10 - 06:33 PM (#2806133) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie From: GUEST Dunno about the origins, but Alasdair Roberts does a great version of this song. Thanks for the chords, I was having a devil of a time figuring out what that Bflat chord was! |
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17 Oct 11 - 06:59 AM (#3240144) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: MartinRyan refresh |
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02 Jan 12 - 03:48 AM (#3283255) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,Jeanette Stockwell Can anyone resolve a family discussion as to whether or not there are really two rhymes involved here ? I can remember as a child being quoted the Sneezing rhyme that - if my memory serves me right only goes up to four - i.e once a wish, twice a kiss, three times a letter, four times something better. I guess that if you sneezed more than four times in succession it was something to worry about. As for the Magpie song, I only knew the version from the children`s programme by that name which my children used to watch when they were small. That goes just up to seven, as previously quoted - i.e seven for a secret never to be told. So are they two songs or just one ? Does anyone out there really know ? |
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02 Jan 12 - 09:54 AM (#3283392) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: Paul Davenport There's a version on our CD 'Songbook' (2008) . If you want all of the verses they're on our website for download (along with the lyrics to the other tracks). I tried to contact Dave Dodds when we recorded this but failed to ascertain his whereabouts other than that he was in the USA somewhere. http://www.hallamtrads.co.uk THE MAGPIE (Dave Dodds) The magpie brings us tidings Of news both fair and foul She’s more cunning than the raven More wise than any owl She brings us news of the harvest Of the Barley, wheat and corn She knows when we’ll go to our graves And when we will be born CHORUS One for sorrow, two for joy Three for a girl and four for a boy Five for silver, six for gold Seven for a secret never told Devil, devil, I defy thee Devil, devil, I defy thee Devil, devil, I defy thee The priest, he says we’re wicked To worship the devil’s bird But we respect the old ways And disregard his word We know they rest uneasy As we slumber in the night But we always leave a little bit of meat For the bird that’s black and white She brings us joy when from the right And grief when from the left Of all the birds that are in the air We know and trust her best For she sees us at our labour And she mocks us at our work She steals the eggs from out of the nest And she can mob the hawk. http://www.hallamtrads.co.uk/ewExternalFiles/SBMagpie.pdf?iframe=true&width=0&height=0
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02 Jan 12 - 12:08 PM (#3283468) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: foggers @ Jeanette - I grew up knowing the two different counting rhymes, one for sneezes and one for magpies. Both are related to beliefs about the devil and his daemons; sneezing was supposed to give a demon the chance to enter your body, which is why we say "bless you". There are also different "Magpie" songs. I too remember the 70s TV prog, and they used the words of the counting rhyme but only as far as 7.Though I don't know the origins of the tune they used, -I would guess it was a composition for that show. There is also a traditional song called Magpie's Nest, which is listed early in this thread (see post by Doc on 9 Dec 1996). And then there is David Dodds' composed song "The Magpie" which draws together the folk beliefs. The details of that song are given in this thread too, by MCP (8 Nov 2001). I would highly recommend the version by Paul and Liz Davenport on their CD; I've heard them do it live too and it is powerful and stirring stuff. @ Paul - hope you all had a good festive season and I look forward to crossing paths with you and Liz in 2012! |
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02 Jan 12 - 02:50 PM (#3283584) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: Paul Davenport Cheers Foggers, have a good one yourself! |
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02 Jan 12 - 02:57 PM (#3283591) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,leeneia The abc posted above is a nice tune. I've transposed it to G/Am and have been playing it on the piano. The last few measures don't seem quite right. |
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02 Jan 12 - 06:02 PM (#3283685) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: Mick Pearce (MCP) I've just had a quick look and I think they're OK leeneia. Mick |
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02 Jan 12 - 09:40 PM (#3283800) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,leeneia Thanks for checking, Mick. I'll keep practicing. It's a lovely composition. |
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07 Mar 13 - 07:17 AM (#3487453) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: MartinRyan Heard The Unthanks singing this recently on Irish radio - still a fine song. Click here for a version (not The Unthanks) on Youtube. Regards |
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30 Sep 13 - 04:56 AM (#3562720) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,Nigel Parry Thanks for the post Martin. I sing the tune with these chords (see Martin's linky above): Verse: Am Em Am Em Am Em Am7 Bm7 Am7 x2 The chorus is basically Am Em with some walks up & down the A string. The first 'Devil Devil' is Am G - Em But this is my work out as it fits my voice. I have seen the Dm Am version. |
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02 May 16 - 01:30 PM (#3788282) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,henryp The Unthanks sang this live on BBC Radio 2 on Wednesday 27 April 2016; Simon Mayo Drivetime from the Folk Awards at the Royal Albert Hall. The programme starts at 17.00; they sing it after 25 minutes. It should be available for 30 days. They also sing the introductory jingle. |
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04 May 16 - 09:30 PM (#3788679) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,Gerry The Roaring Forties recorded it on their Shore Leave CD. You can hear a snippet of it at https://roaringfortiesfolk.com/cds/shore-leave/ Triantan also recorded it, but I'm having trouble getting through to their website. |
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04 May 16 - 09:59 PM (#3788683) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: Joe Offer I was getting confused. The American songwriter with a similar name is David Dodson |
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05 May 16 - 03:24 AM (#3788704) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,padgett I spoke to David Dodds who is alive and well couple of weeks ago regarding his song " I can hew boys I can hack it out" recorded by Mawkin he mentioned the "Magpie" which he had written and recorded and finding fame with the Unthanks ~ I think he may be pursuing Royalties! He was a member of Red Jespers he told me, but retired from recording I think in the 90s ~ he spends his time fishing! Ray |
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13 Dec 16 - 06:03 PM (#3826347) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,Davey Dodds I am alive and getting younger and crazier by the day! At the end of May this year, my wife Jeannie bought me a mandolin as a belated birthday present. I got cajouled into playing - after 22 years - and am now strutting my stuff in Darkest Kernow. Last week, I finished recording the bones of a new solo album. The days of rock excess with Red Jasper are in the past but I |
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13 Dec 16 - 06:19 PM (#3826348) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,Davey Dodds The last post was interupted by a techno burp. Three weeks ago, RadMax dragged me into the 21st century and put me on Facebook (Davey Dodds). I'm excited by the new album. I thought that my life as a fly-fishing guide would protect me from getting musical withdrawal symptoms. Since starting to play again, I am realising what I have been missing. Gigging and recording is great therapy! I am having a blast and enjoying life to the full. A raw basic version of The Magpie will be on the new CD - along with some interesting new stuff. Caitlin Barrett (from Roving Crows) is contributing some fiddle. Badders is battering a Bodhran and Keven Taylor is blowing some harp. Derek Aunger (once of Procul Harem) is twiddling the knobs at his Salty Dog Studio near Looe. Best wishes to anyone who reads this! https://www.facebook.com/pete.moyes.7/videos/10156862627549324 |
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14 Dec 16 - 02:54 AM (#3826369) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Great to hear from you, Davey! I started this thread twenty years ago - and had already been singing The Magpie for a long time by then! In recent years, I've found a curious use for it. I go to Spain twice a year as a volunteer English tutor on immersion courses for Spaniards. As a "spot" during an entertainment hour, I sing your song (in my, slightly altered, version!) - talking about the folklore, picking out a few curious words, and getting them to sing the chorus! Goes down the proverbial bomb... Best Wishes |
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15 Dec 16 - 01:53 AM (#3826590) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: Herga Kitty Thanks for the update Davey! Kitty |
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15 Dec 16 - 02:25 AM (#3826592) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: michaelr Donovan did his bit to restore the magpie's reputation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSoxFWh6xG4 |
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15 Jan 17 - 04:18 PM (#3832837) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST met him last Friday . he was up in front playing mando to a noisy unlistening soul distroying gathering in an 'open mic' I didnt know who he was, so when he came to leave I asked him who he was.Now Ive done more research. he mentioned the Unthanks recording of 'Magpie' thats on Youtube , well I recognised the chorus , but hs has taken it to another level. I'm hoping to meet and this time hear him. I told him about Bodmin Folk club where I frequent. This coming Friday a former mudcatter is down to appear . |
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03 Aug 17 - 11:26 PM (#3869808) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: Daniel Kelly Hi All, Off-topic, but I'm doing some mining songs for my folk YouTube channel, and as I knew 'I Can Hew' from the singing of Judy Pinder in Triantan, I wanted to add it to my list. I couldn't find current details about David on the Red Jasper site, so great to see you still active in the folk community. Hopefully you will see this message. Here is a link to my recording: https://youtu.be/zauCjs5qmLA P.S. I picked up my Mandolin in Vegas in 2013 and absolutely love it. |
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30 Oct 17 - 09:58 PM (#3885836) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,JMSails Hi, all. I'm looking for a different Magpie song, that a friend learned " from an LP by Sallie Rogers and Howie Bursen " over thirty years ago. Has a chorus consisting of the One for Sorrow, Two for Joy rhyme, plus the spitted Devil, Devil, I defy Thee (3X, of course). Does anybody know anything about either the song or Rogers and/or Bursen? Mike says he's looked for a CD of it with no success. Thanks -- JMSails |
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31 Oct 17 - 04:47 AM (#3885874) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,Gerry JMSails, the Sally Rogers & Howie Bursen song is the one David Dodds wrote, the one that's being discussed in (most) of this thread. Track listing and possible vinyl availability at https://www.discogs.com/Sally-Rogers-And-Howard-Bursen-Satisfied-Customers/release/4769785 Sally & Howie are on the bill for the New Bedford folk festival this coming July, http://www.newbedfordfolkfestival.com/performers/sally-rogers-and-howie-bursen/ |
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31 Oct 17 - 08:37 AM (#3885942) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: Herga Kitty Here are a couple of shortcuts (blue clickies) to Gerry's links for Sally and Howard - here's one for the discography and the other one is at http://www.newbedfordfolkfestival.com/performers/sally-rogers-and-howie-bursen/ Kitty |
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31 Oct 17 - 02:47 PM (#3886022) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,JMSails Sorry -- I just found the one I'm looking for about 2/3 of the way back up, posted by GUEST.MCP. Does anyone know how to read the coded stuff that seems to contain the melody(?) Thanks -jm |
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08 Dec 17 - 11:07 AM (#3892818) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,Jonathan Ferguson What a wonderful song. Does anyone know the date of the David Dodds original? |
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08 Dec 17 - 02:07 PM (#3892840) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,Wayne Davy Dodds' new record, Kernocopia is outstanding. A fine version of the Magpie can be found therein along with a whole bunch of excellent songs & tunes. One of the records of the year. |
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09 Jan 19 - 07:33 AM (#3970732) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: FreddyHeadey ^^^ Davy Dodds' , Kernocopia , 2017 DAVEY DODDS, MARTIN SOLOMON, ROBIN HARRISON, DAVID CLIFFORD, BRADDERS BLUESINGER, KEVEN TAYLOR, STEPHI UNDERDOWN http://www.angelair.co.uk/?tcp_product=davey-dodds-kernowcopia |
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23 Feb 20 - 08:59 AM (#4035643) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: GUEST,Gealt The Magpie was played on Sunday Morning with Sarah Walker, BBC Radio 3 today. It was The Unthanks version and she mentioned the unusual surname but on online BBC Music Played list it is Dave Dodds gets the credit - Rabble Rouser Music. The Unthanks certainly do the song justice. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000fnsx |
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03 Sep 20 - 12:03 AM (#4070558) Subject: ADD Version: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: Joe Offer Here's a 2018 performance of "The Magpie" posted by Pete Moyes, who claims this is the way the song was originally performed by Davey Dodds. I found it on Dodds' Facebook page. Does this link work for everyone, or just for Facebook members? Here's my transcription: THE MAGPIE (Dave Dodds) Devil, devil, I defy thee. Devil, devil, I defy thee. Devil, devil, I defy thee. The magpie brings us tidings, Of news both fair and foul; More cunning than the raven. More wise than any owl. And she brings us news of the harvest, Of the barley, wheat, and corn; And she knows when we go to our graves, And when we shall be born. CHORUS One's for sorrow, two's for joy, Three's for a girl and four's for a boy; Five for silver, six is for gold, Seven's for a secret never told. She brings us joy when from the right, Grief when from the left; And all the birds that's in the air, We love to trust her best. For she sees us at our labour, And she mocks us at our work; And she steals the eggs from out of the nest, She can mob the hawk. CHORUS: (One's for sorrow...) Now the priest, he says we’re wicked, That we worship the devil’s bird; But we respect the old ways, And we disregard his word. We know they rest uneasy, As we slumber in the night; And we always leave a little bit of meat For the bird that’s black and white. Devil, devil, I defy thee... Not sure about the verse: She brings us joy when from the right |
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03 Sep 20 - 04:47 AM (#4070579) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: Joe Offer Maddy Prior's "Magpie" is discussed in this thread (click). There are similarities between the two songs. |
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22 Sep 20 - 07:13 PM (#4072796) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: Joe Offer Here's a performance by the BlueBirds of the David Dodds song: And here's San Francisco's Brass Farthing: |
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22 Sep 20 - 08:55 PM (#4072808) Subject: RE: Origins: The Magpie (David Dodds) From: Reinhard Your Facebook link from 3 September works for me as a non-member. |