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28 Dec 00 - 11:02 AM (#364553) Subject: Lowden Guitars From: UB Ed A friend of mine owns a music store and is kind enough to be bringing a couple Lowden guitars and a Larivee for inspection. I've seen the web sites for both. Apparently Lowden is in Northern Ireland and the Larivee folks are in Canada. But... have any of you played these brands? I think I'm ready to buy my "ultimate" acoustic, but am becoming somewhat disappointed in the Martins, Gibsons, Taylors and Guilds in our music stores. These folks seem to be trading on their reputations with a price to match. To date, I have not found one that approaches the sound of my '76 Martin D18 (maybe I'm a mahogony person). Any experience with Lowden or Larivee?
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28 Dec 00 - 11:14 AM (#364562) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: DonMeixner Before I buy a new Martin, Gibson, or Taylor I would look long and hard at Lowdens and Larrivees. Also for the same or less money I can have Bernie Lehman in Rochester NY build me a guitar of native American woods thar will be exaxctly what I want. No compromises, exactly what I want. Don |
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28 Dec 00 - 11:29 AM (#364576) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: catspaw49 I think you'll get some decent responses here UB. WE have several 'Catters with past or present experience with each brand. Only you know the sound you're looking for and perhaps you ARE a mahogany person.......I am. In any case, have someone play them for you with your back turned as part of the decision process. Of course your feelings toward the actual "feel" are your own too and everyone has a certain amount of vanity in the appearance department. Both are excellent builders of fine quality instruments. You don't say which models your friend is bringing, but as you know I'm sure, the sound of different body styles can be significantly different. If you're looking at dreadnoughts or whatever, be sure you're not comparing apples to oranges. I am a big fan of Jean Larivee's guitars. His bracing patterns are unique and most remark on the "fit and finish" of his products. They are not as pricey as others but the quality is superb and they have an excellent reputation for standing behind their products. Larrivee has a wide range of bodies and depending on what you're after, the sound cahracteristics do differ. Many people feel the "Larrivee Small" body, designated LS, is one of the better balanced finger picking guitars around, but others don't care for the smaller size. I think its widely believed that Larrivee's are very "sweet" but lack projection. If that was ever true, I don't believe its true today. Several of our members have found to their surprise that the volume and sweetness are both there. Rick and Willie-O have a shared Lowden, but its an older model. I have no experience to any degree with them, only a few "sample pickin's." They seem quite well made, have a fine reputation too and I liked the ones I've played, but that's not too much time. Others will be along to chime in I'm sure. Good Luck and I hope you find what you're after! Spaw |
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28 Dec 00 - 11:44 AM (#364586) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: Wesley S Ed - I love my '85 Lowden 12-string { ovankol and cedar }. I've only found a couple of old Gibsons that can compare to it. And the wood bindings that they use are a sight to behold. But your ears and pocketbook need to be the final judge. Take the blindfold test that Spaw suggests and be prepared not to settle for anything less than the best. You'll more than likely have that guitar for a long time - longer than the money would have lasted anyway. Good luck. |
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28 Dec 00 - 12:52 PM (#364629) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: UB Ed Guys, thanks. I'll definitely do the blindfold sound test. I'm fairly certain I prefer the Dreadnaught body style and associated sound projection. Interestingly enough, I played a Larivee PA (Paul Anderson?) model which is an orchestra style. While I loved the narrow neck, I prefereed the sound of a rosewood back, sitka spruce top Larivee dreadnought that had a satin finish (non-gloss). The other issue I'm toying with is a cutaway body style and any impact (if any) that would have on the structural integrity of the instrument. |
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28 Dec 00 - 01:08 PM (#364636) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: Murray MacLeod Ed, I hope you find the guitar you are after, but I hope nobody is misled into thinking that Larrivee and Lowden are anything other than factory guitsrs, just like Martin and Taylor are factory guitars. If you want that ultimate hand built quality you are going to have to go to an individual builder, and face a lengthy waiting time. But if you really want that dreadnaught sound and look, I suggest you go out of your way to try a few guitars by Bill Collings. Factory made, I grant you, but IMHO they will eat up and spit out any new Martin or Taylor (or Larrivee or Lowden that I have heard). Murray Murray
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28 Dec 00 - 01:32 PM (#364646) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: UB Ed http://www.collingsguitars.com/index.html |
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28 Dec 00 - 01:38 PM (#364649) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: catspaw49 UB....all of the major websites are in the LINKS section under "Instrument Related." with hot links to click on. Murray, I tend to agree as almost everyone does about Collings, but they are considerably more pricey and harder to find at a decent discounted price. Beautiful stuff though. Spaw |
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28 Dec 00 - 03:24 PM (#364695) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: GUEST,CraigS I haven't played a Lowdon or Larrivee that I disliked, which I can't say for Martin, Gibson, or Guild. I can say that I like big Lowdons and small Larrivees much more than small Lowdons and big Larrivees. On the other hand, I have decided that I don't like buying new steel string guitars any more - I'd go out and look for something at least five years old, but better 20-30 years old - better woods and no troubles with stability, as long as you know how to pick a good 'un. |
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28 Dec 00 - 05:20 PM (#364786) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: John Hardly I like Pat's post (no not THAT "post") but would add; This is the most often asked question--in some manner or another "what's the best guitar?" And of course, the real answer is "For what style/song/mood/volume/sound/etc?" The guitars mentioned here always come up because they are VERSATILE. Still, they shade to one taste or another both in sight and sound. I love my Larrivee (one of the small ones to which Pat refers) and you can look it over with a magnifying glass and find no flaws in workmanship. Curious though, at the time of my buying it (8 yrs ago) it was between it and a Lowden--loved 'em both but like a gloss finish. One thing I didn't notice mentioned though. In your testing--compare new strings with new strings (the same kind if possible). Don't paralyze yourself with the notion that it's the last guitar you'll ever buy--It may be if you like it that much, but that's too much baggage to carry into a guitar store with you. Have fun! JH |
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28 Dec 00 - 05:50 PM (#364812) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: catspaw49 John I am SO glad you mentioned the string thing, particularly in this case! I forgot to say this before and forgot! IMPORTANT NOTE: Larrivee's are coming from the factory with Elixr strings and they feel very different. Like John said, string brands should match if possible, but the fact that Larrivee is using the Elixr's makes it even more of a factor. Spaw |
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28 Dec 00 - 06:59 PM (#364850) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: GUEST,John of the Hill UB Ed, I thought I was a mahogany guy too, then I tried a Larrivee L-03W, now I am a walnut guy. Actually, I am now a firm believer in taking each guitar on its own merits and avoiding generalizations. As far as Elixirs on new Larrivees, at the local music store they had an OM-02 that sounded dead with Elixirs but came alive with different strings and a D-02 that sparkled with Elixirs. It's all those variables that make shopping for an acoustic guitar so maddening and so wonderful, and I haven't even mentioned different brands, handmade vs. factory, and so on and so forth.... John |
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28 Dec 00 - 08:46 PM (#364916) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: Lady McMoo I have a Lowden the same vintage and provenance as Willie-O's/ex-Rick's. It's been a wonderful instrument for me over the past 12 years or so and I still use it occasionally for live gigs. But if you get the chance, also try a Lakewood. I bought a Sitka/Ovankol (=Bubinga) model (an M-18 - rather similar to a 00018) with a custom neck about 15 months ago and I haven't put it down since. It's a very personal opinion but, for me, it's the best guitar I've played and the current exchange rate (they're made in Germany) makes them very good value in both the US and UK. Good luck mcmoo |
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28 Dec 00 - 09:21 PM (#364928) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: GUEST,John of the Hill mcmoo, What customization did you have done on your Lakewoods neck and how does ovangkol fall between rosewood and mahogany for tone? John |
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29 Dec 00 - 07:53 AM (#365038) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: John P I sold my Larivee to buy a Lowden. I like both guitars better than most Martins. They tend to have a more open, ringing sound which I enjoy. I agree with the comment made earlier about large-body Lowdens being the best of that line, and small body Larivees being the best there. I have recently played on several guitars built by James Goodall that I like better than my Lowden. John |
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29 Dec 00 - 09:10 AM (#365056) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: Whistle Stop I have both a small-body Larrivee (OM-10) and a large-body Lowden (O32-C). I love them both, but they are very different instruments from one another. Both builders are known for a certain amount of structural innovation, particularly in the bracing. Both of mine are spruce top, rosewood back and sides, which is my personal preference for the types of music that I play. The Larrivee has a sound that could be described as "piano-like" -- each note is clear and distinct, the response across the tonal spectrum is very even. In the six or seven years that I have owned it (I bought it new), the tone has opened up very nicely. It used to have a sound like cut glass, but now is warmer and richer sounding, while still retaining a certain "chimey" character. The Lowden is a big guitar in every sense of the word. It's Lowden's signature body style (kind of a jumbo), with a gentle and not terribly deep cutaway. The sound is big and open, warm and rich -- it moves a lot of air, if you know what I mean (words fail me). It is a guitar unlike any other that I have ever played, and certainly a different breed than a Martin, Gibson, Taylor, or other more "conventional" American guitars. I string both with medium gauge phosphor bronze strings (generally D'Addario EJ17's), and fingerpick and flatpick on both. They are very versatile instruments, but like all guitars you have to play to their strengths to get the best out of them. I would not consider either to be a bluegrass guitar -- if that is what you're looking for, I'd focus first on dreadnoughts, with Martin as the starting point and Gibson, Taylor, Larrivee (dreadnoughts), Collings, Bourgeois, and lots of others in the running. And as other folks have said, you need to let your own hands and ears guide you more than the opinions of others. But Larrivee and Lowden are both excellent instruments, so definitely check them out. |
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29 Dec 00 - 09:17 AM (#365058) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: GUEST,Mark. West Sussex. UK Asking Guitar Freaks about guitars is like asking Scotsmen about Malt Whiskey. There is no best, only opinions. I have played crap Martins, Gibsons, Guilds etc. I have also come across some tinny Taylors and jangly Lowdens. Some makes have a particular feel about the action and neck but in the end every guitar is a unique work made from living natural materials. How many times have I found two apparently identical guitars hanging on a shop wall from top brands with four figure prices only to find they are chalk and cheese as far as playing similarity goes. Find somewhere with a large stock, forget brands, sit down and play until you come across the one that sings to you. Like true love, when you find it, you know it. |
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29 Dec 00 - 09:24 AM (#365061) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: Whistle Stop Another thing to keep in mind is the necks. Larrivees tend to have a fairly thin neck, Lowdens are a bit beefier. Both have somewhat flattish fingerboards -- not completely flat, but less arched than a Martin, Gibson or Taylor. As someone who spent years studying and performing classical guitar, this feels good to me, but it may feel kind of unfamiliar (and difficult) to folks weaned on Martins or Gibsons. |
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29 Dec 00 - 12:32 PM (#365127) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: Lady McMoo John, My Lakewood has a so-called "ragtime" option neck. This is the same scale length and 14 fret to body as standard but is much wider and less radiused, approaching classical guitar fingerboard dimensions. It is fairly "beefy" in thickness. I have rather large hands and play about 95% fingerstyle on this guitar so it's perfect for me in this respect. Tone is a very subjective thing but I'd say, in combination with the sitka top and scalloped bracing Martin Seiliger uses, ovankol produces a sound something between mahogany and rosewood, fairly crisp and with good separation treble to bass but with a little more warmth than the average rosewood instrument, Best regards, mcmoo |
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29 Dec 00 - 12:34 PM (#365128) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: Rick Fielding And don't forget....You can change strings in an instant on the Lowden. No pins to pull. I find it fascinating how many Lowden innovations were used by Takamine. Rick |
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29 Dec 00 - 12:40 PM (#365130) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: bill\sables I havn't played a bad Lowden and I know a few players who swear by them. I ever tries about 2 dozen once in a Dublin store and they were all good. The only problem I have heard about the cedar topped ones is they never improve in sound unlike spruce topped. These comments are from lowden players but if they sound good to start with then they don't need to improve. I didn't buy a Lowden, I bought a Docherty hand made instead, Terry Docherty is a Northumbrian luthier who builds all his instruments by hand and after playing my mandola which was built by him I had to have one of his guitars. I also bought one of his mandolins to complete the set. Cheers Bill |
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29 Dec 00 - 07:31 PM (#365372) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: Richard Bridge I have carefully listened to all ofhte makes mentioned here except for Bourgeois and DOcherty, and I ahve alsco carefully lsitened to and in some cases played LEvin, Norhtworthy, Kincade, Atkins, Fylde and Armstrong, not to mention good Washburns (some do exist) and Landola, and Morris and Alvarez. Some were better than my Mugen, and some quite a lot better but the only thing which made me swear to change guitar (if winning the lottery, and mediocre as my playing is) was William Pint's Goodall. In a class of its own. |
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29 Dec 00 - 09:52 PM (#365417) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: GUEST,John of the Hill mcmoo, Your description of ovankol is similar to the way I felt about the walnut vs rosewood Larrivees. I now own a New Zealand cittern, a Finnish guitar, and a Canadian guitar. Having read a little about Lakewoods and Lowdens I would like to extend my musical U.N. but I think my wife is ready to become an isolationist. John |
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30 Dec 00 - 02:57 AM (#365524) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: Willie-O The Lowden I acquired from Mr Fielding is a dreadnaught-sized, early 80's Japanese-made one. It's very dissimilar to the ones they are making now, has a light cedar top and mahogany sides and back. I've always wanted a D-18 and this guitar has a lot of the properties of the D-18's I've liked but couldn't afford. So the bigger ones, and older ones if you can find them, might be worth looking into if D-18 is what you like. But I have also been completely transfixed, in a quite different way, by a smaller Lowden I tried once which seemed an exquisite fingerpicking guitar as well as a miracle of lightweight luthiery and innovative joinery. Willie-O |
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30 Dec 00 - 09:34 AM (#365596) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: John P Richard Bridge, I've played on William Pint's Goodall guitar quite a bit, and it is the finest guitar I have ever had in my hands. I've played on a few other Goodalls that were darn near as nice as well. In general, when shopping for a guitar I agree with the advice given earlier: find a store that stocks several good brands and start playing guitars until you find the one that speaks to you. Don't order one based on model and features -- every piece of wood sounds different and no two guitars are alike. Always play before you buy. I would add that if you play with other musicians you should take them along when you are ready to make a final choice of guitar. I was once ready to give up my mahogany Lowden in favor of a rosewood one that I fell in love with. I asked my musical partner to come down to the store with her fiddle and hurdy-gurdy and play along with me. I also took my mahogany guitar. I found that for playing solo, I loved the rosewood -- had I just been comparing guitar sound to guitar sound I would have chosen that. But as soon as the fiddle or hurdy-gurdy was added to the mix, the mahogany guitar sounded much better. All the juicy, warm, rich tones of the rosewood got buried in the sound of the other instruments and the guitar turned to mush. The mahogany is nicely warm and rich in it's own right, but cuts through the sound of the other instruments without losing it's tone qualtiy. Since I always perform in the duet situation, the rosewood guitar would have been a bad choice, even though it was in most ways a better sounding instrument. John |
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30 Dec 00 - 10:25 AM (#365625) Subject: Song lyrics From: BANJO BARRY Perhaps I blinked over Christmas,but I havent seen an answer to my Request for words to RAILROAD RUNS THROUGH GEORGIA .So work off some of that holiday excess help me out,Please ,you'll thank me for getting rid of a few of those calories .BANJO BARRY MURPHY IN SUSSEX ENGLAND The thread Barry's talking about is here. Barry, people won't notice this in a thread about guitars. You can refresh your other thread to bring it up to the top. --JoeClone |
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01 Jan 01 - 10:14 AM (#366691) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: Murray MacLeod One thing to remember about Lakewood guitars is that the neck joint may be a straight butt-joint glued to the body with epoxy. I say may be because it is possible that Seliger has changed his production methods, but my Lakewood Dreadnaught which I bought in 1992 certainly has this unusual joint. How do I know? The guitar suffered a horrendous accident two years ago. This neck construction means you can never have a neck reset, which IMHO is a serious drawback. But they are wonderful sounding guitars. I miss mine terribly. Murray |
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01 Jan 01 - 03:02 PM (#366800) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: kendall Over the years, I believe I have played just about all of them except Collins and Lowdens, and, I still say, the most impressive 6 string I have ever played is a Santa Cruz dreadnaught. Would you consider buying a used guitar? I bought my Taylor in a music store, used, and it was in perfect condition. The price was half what a new one would be. |
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01 Jan 01 - 03:55 PM (#366814) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: GUEST,Richard McMaster Why not try a Dee McIlroy guitar? Absolutely superb instrument hand made by Dee himself. Contact him on e-mail: mcilroy@supanet.com or web site: www.mcilroy.supanet.com
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01 Jan 01 - 11:49 PM (#366955) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: Murray MacLeod kendall, I think you mean Collings, rather than Collins. Unless you do in fact mean David Collins, who is a rather fine luthier, and who gets pissed when he gets confused with Bill Collings. Happy new Year Murray |
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02 Jan 01 - 01:30 PM (#367132) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: UB Ed The conundrum continues. I have now played a Lowden O23c and a Collings D3. Unfortunately both were separated by 60 miles, so there was no one on one comparison. The O23 had a cutaway, so not only were the back and sides walnut, but the bindings as well. It blew my D18 away, so I too may have to change my mahogany favor to walnut. So the next question was, how would the O series compare to a dreadnaught body style? In looking back on the Lowden web site, it appears the O series width and depth is actually larger than their Dreadnaughts. So that could explain how the fantastic bass melded nicely with the crisp higher notes. Is it possible the dreadnought would not ring as loud as the O? In playing the Lowden, I was also surprised how I did not mind a wider neck. The Collings was beautiful as well; spruce top and rosewood b&s. It blew away every Martin in the shop. Both guitars were "listing" for $3200. I'm still looking. The response to this thread has been great and I really appreciate the insight. From the discussion and recent experience, I believe I've learned that no preconceived notions about body style and wood are best. Just get in there and play 'em. Any additional thoughts on dreadnaught versus orchestra body styles? Also, Lowden apparently binds its cutaway models differently for structure. Can a cutaway compromise an instrument's quality? |
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02 Jan 01 - 01:41 PM (#367143) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: GUEST,Michael Remember when you use the term "Dreadnought" you're referring to a very specific large "squarish" shape originated by Martin. Most guitars have used similar shapes to those originated by Martin, Gibson, and Torres. The Lowden company has to the best of my knowledge never made a "Dreadnought" shaped instrument. (I may be wrong with newer models) The early Japanese assembled ones were based firmly on Gibson's J-50 design (note the "sloped" shoulders) and most of the larger ones payed homage to Gibson's J-200 model. I once owned one of the "J-50" style guitars and their sheer volume and power was unequalled. |
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02 Jan 01 - 02:14 PM (#367168) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: GUEST,Willie-O Yup it's bigger I think than a D-model Martin, and at least as loud, shoulders are rounded. Lowden't website says they made 5000 guitars a year in Japan. (for five years.) So where are they all? I've never to my knowledge seen another Japanese Lowden, anywhere. Willie-O at "work" |
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02 Jan 01 - 02:19 PM (#367172) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: Lady McMoo Well I have one Willie-O, so that's 2 accounted for. I don't know about the other 24,998 though...! mcmoo |
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02 Jan 01 - 02:22 PM (#367175) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: kendall Geez, cant a guy drop a "g" around here? |
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02 Jan 01 - 06:55 PM (#367356) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: John in Brisbane Willie-O and McMoo, you can reduce the deficit by one more - a cedar top. Interestingly I played in a competition a few years ago with a German guy with one straight from the factory. We swapped at rehearsals and on stage several times and neither of us could tell the difference, exdcept that his bug was much better than mine. The large Lowden shape is a 'Jumbo'. I don't see much point in comparing brands; Lowdens have their own character, but I respect their consistent clarity over the whole fretboard. What blows away most players though is their huge dynamic range in the hands of a good performer. Played acoustically they are awesome, but when you play them hard you run the risk of overloading the front end of indifferent quality PA systems. Regards, John |
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02 Jan 01 - 08:02 PM (#367399) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: GUEST UB Ed, Please keep us up to date on your guitar odyssey, shopping vicariously is much easier on my pocketbook. John |
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02 Jan 01 - 09:28 PM (#367450) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: Rick Fielding I've been wondering where "the rest of them were" myself! Willie, when I bought "your" guitar, many years ago, I'd gotten a call from a friend who ran Boddington's Music in Toronto. He said to "get my ass" over right away 'cause he'd just got three real "corkers" in. I played each of them for about half an hour, before choosing the Cedar top that you've got. My friend Ron Nigrini came in while I was there, and made a deal to get one free(!!) 'cause he had a hit record in Canada at the time (remember "I'm Easy"?) The third went to a guy from Holland Landing. The odd thing about them was that the necks were ALL different. Mine seemed quite a bit thinner than the other two. In the last 20 years I've only seen one other, and that was for sale at Encore Music on Danforth Road. I almost bought it (they wanted about 500 bucks for it) but by then I had my sights set on a small Martin. Never seen one in the States, so my guess is that they stayed in Japan. Bottom line is I loved that "J-50" shape. But no J-50 made has that kind of volume. Rick |
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02 Jan 01 - 09:56 PM (#367472) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: GUEST,John of the Hill Rick, If you were God, you'd know where all those Japanese Lowdens went.I don't know if this qualifies as thread creep or merely refers to a creepy thread. I guess one of these days I should reset my cookie so I don't look like one of the anonymous guests. John |
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16 Jan 01 - 01:35 PM (#375459) Subject: RE: Help: Lowden Guitars From: UB Ed Well, I'm still looking to play more Lowdens. Was in Tuscon for business and was disappointed that the Lowden dealer out there was completely out of stock. Limped back home and surfed some more til I came upon http://www.egroups.com/files/lowden-l/cult/index.html (sorry, I'll learn how to do the blue clicky in the next session). Anyway, these folks may be able to account for some of the Japanese Lowdens. In reviewing the excellent advice given in this thread (play a bunch of guitars), remembering something about monetary exchange rates and the fact my family would be interested in a trip to Ireland, can anyone direct me to a list of Lowden dealers in Ireland or England (preferably one with lots of Lowden guitars)? Has anyone made any price comparisons for buying in the US versus buying abroad? Have I lost my friggin mind? |
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21 Aug 01 - 02:06 PM (#532589) Subject: Lowden Guitar Master Thread From: UB Ed Here are the results from a 3 year search, with the filter set to Lowden Rick's Old Lowden Rocks Help: Lowden Guitars Lowden Home Page Talk about Lowdens until you pass out Frankly, I'm a little surprised there aren't more. I know Lowdens (and others) continue to pop up regularly in other threads. |