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03 Jan 01 - 03:35 AM (#367604) Subject: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Haruo In the Stenka Razin thread we just ran into a situation where I typed some Russian text (in Win-1251 encoding) and it didn't come out right (even though the text of Stenka Razin just above it, posted by AKS, did look good. So here I'm going to try to see if there is a reliable way to post Russian text in Cyrillic. I've chosen KOI-8 encoding (because it seems to me to be what most Russian webpages actually use, and also because it's what I've got on hand to test with). In my online hymnal I have three hymns in Russian (translations of "Hark! the Herald Angels Sing", "Joy to the World", and "Silent Night"). What follows here should be the first verse of "Hark! the Herald Angels Sing":
Well, did it work? Liland aka Ivan Ivanovitch aka ... |
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03 Jan 01 - 03:44 AM (#367606) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Joe Offer Well, Liland, I don't think it worked. I tried it with all the Russian/cyrillic fonts I could find. I'm going to copy it and remove the italics, and then see if it works. -Joe- |
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03 Jan 01 - 03:49 AM (#367607) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Haruo Yeah, it doesn't look like it worked here, either. What I tried to do was use a META tag to indicate the encoding. (As I suppose you can easily enough see from the HTML.) This sort of tag is usually used in the <HEAD> of a page to tell the browser what encoding to use, but I have found that adding it to my Table of Contents allows my to switch to KOI-8 in an otherwise Latin-alphabet Unicode environment. Though I should probably be using Unicode Cyrillic encoding, which I don't know and am too lazy to look up... (Not too lazy to do this sort of stuff here, though, so...) Liland |
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03 Jan 01 - 03:55 AM (#367608) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Joe Offer Well, Liland, I disabled the META tag just now because they tend to screw things up when people use them in messages. We're not supposed to use META, HEAD, BODY, or IMG SRC tags within Mudcat messages. -Joe- |
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03 Jan 01 - 04:06 AM (#367612) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Haruo Thanks; I didn't know that, though I knew not to use img src (and I imagine bgsound src would be equally inappropriate though still more to be desired?). But in this case the presence or absence of the META tag doesn't seem to affect the (il)legibility of the product. Alas. And I must shortly to bed... Liland |
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03 Jan 01 - 04:10 AM (#367613) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Joe Offer Nope, Liland, "bgsound src would be equally inappropriate though still LESS to be desired." About as desirable as a cellular phone in a movie house. -Joe- |
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03 Jan 01 - 04:16 AM (#367614) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Jon Freeman Oh Joe Offer, you are no fun ;-) Jon |
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03 Jan 01 - 04:20 AM (#367617) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Haruo heh heh (to both of you) well, here goes one more try, without the META tag (as the output with it didn't look anything like it should have):
Liland |
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03 Jan 01 - 04:23 AM (#367618) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Haruo Now that looks okay; but does it look okay from all three servers? is the question... |
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03 Jan 01 - 04:26 AM (#367621) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Haruo shorty looks good, loki looks totally wrong and weird, and I've forgotten (it's late) what the other one's called... |
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03 Jan 01 - 04:29 AM (#367623) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Jon Freeman No Liland, loki still won't have it. BTW, I think I used the wrong terminology in "character set" in the other thread. To be honest, I know loki behaves differently (it even does it with the uk œ - pound sign) but I do not know the real technical reasons for this. Jon |
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03 Jan 01 - 04:32 AM (#367624) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Jon Freeman Having said that, I see a pound sign on loki now - maybe it is one of the other servers that does not like it. Jon |
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03 Jan 01 - 04:47 AM (#367628) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Haruo So basically what it comes down to is that it's best to put a Russian text on my website and just provide a blue clickie here, ĉu prave? Liland |
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03 Jan 01 - 04:58 AM (#367632) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Jon Freeman Liland, I honestly do not have the knowledge but it is my opinion that you are always taking a gamble when trying to use characters outside of the standard ASCII set. On that basis using your own website where you possibly have more control (or at least more consistency) is likely to be more reliable. Jon |
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03 Jan 01 - 05:05 AM (#367637) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Haruo Of course another possibility is to type in the whole thing using the coding (like I used for the c-circumflex two messages up) that uses HTML Character Code numbers, like ampersand-tictactoe-365-semicolon (which should produce a u with a breve, ŭ), but I've never memorized all those numbers for Cyrillic, and even if I knew them by heart it would take all day to type a single lyric... Liland |
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03 Jan 01 - 05:13 AM (#367639) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Joe Offer Hi again, Liland - I guess I'd say that if you post special characters at Mudcat, you can't expect them to remain unchanged. Even if you use ampersand codes, you can have problems when Max does upgrades. The Irish speakers had fits during the last upgrade. Most of their fadas were recovered, but some of their careful typing was lost. -Joe- |
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03 Jan 01 - 05:22 AM (#367641) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Haruo Were they using numerical codes or verbal ones (e.g. you can get an e with an acute accent either by typing á (á) or á (á), an a-e ligature (as in æsthetics) by typing either æ (æ) or æ(æ)? Just curious. Liland |
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03 Jan 01 - 05:24 AM (#367642) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Haruo I obviously meant an a with an acute accent! G'night all! |
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03 Jan 01 - 05:26 AM (#367643) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Jon Freeman Liland, this thread is likely to be of interest to you. Jon |
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03 Jan 01 - 05:36 AM (#367648) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Joe Offer Hi, Liland - when Max upgrades, it doesn't seem to matter whether the ampersand codes are numerical or verbal - they all get messed up. -Joe, going to bed- |
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03 Jan 01 - 05:39 AM (#367650) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Rizla the Green I often look at Russian websites and I had to download the pan-european windows software from microsoft to view the pages properly. Since I installed that all the cyrillic fonts are no problem. |
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03 Jan 01 - 06:05 AM (#367657) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Haruo Even the one I started this thread out with? ;-)— no, seriously, the software will do the trick if the page header tells it which to use, and if (unlike here in Mudcat) the servers don't interfere and mess things up. But I get the impression nothing from Microsoft will dissolve this site's occasional illegibility. Liland |
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03 Jan 01 - 06:43 PM (#368065) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: NightWing Liland, Cyrillic characters cannot be viewed by anyone who does not have a Cyrillic font installed on their computer. Since I have never had occasion to install such a font, I will never be able to see your Cyrillic characters, no matter what you do. That said, however, there should be a way of using the <FONT FACE="something"> tag as a way of showing the Cyrillic characters to anyone who DOES have a Cyrillic font installed. However, I don't know what the something ought to be. At a wild guess, something like font name,Russian/Cyrillic.
BB, |
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03 Jan 01 - 07:23 PM (#368091) Subject: RE: HTML experiment: KOI-8 Cyrillic From: Sorcha Most of us can't read Cryllic, anyway.......so post it on your website and give a Blue Clickie........for those who are interested.....even the Gaelic gets to me. I can wiggle around in French and Spanish, but nothing else. Well, I guess I can wiggle a little in Esperanto, as I can understand the labels on the photos at your site, but I just can't see it ever becoming the Universal Language it was supposed to be... |