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05 Jan 01 - 06:18 PM (#369315) Subject: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: GUEST,Obloquy67 Anyone know any, besides the ones in the LDB? Esp. Irish/Gaelic, with pronunciation help? Thanks so much. |
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05 Jan 01 - 07:05 PM (#369349) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: GUEST,Zebedee (at his dad's house) LDB? does that mean the Digital Tradition Lyric Database or something else? As far as I know Hal-An_Tow is a Cornish song. I'm not sure why there would be any Gaelic lyrics. Peter Kennedy's 'Folksongs of Britain and Ireland' gives the lyrics in the original Cornish. I can transcribe those if you're interested Ed |
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05 Jan 01 - 07:13 PM (#369351) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: GUEST,Obloquy67 Yes, I meant Lyric Database. I thought there were some foreign (to me) lyrics out there, and thought they were Irish, but they must have been the Cornish ones. A transcription would be appreciated. Do you know the possible dates of origin of the song, as well? thanks. |
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05 Jan 01 - 07:35 PM (#369373) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: GUEST This is when I really wish I had a scanner...
Robin Hood ha Jowan Vyghan Sorry, but I'm giving up on this. If you have a really good reason for knowing this in Cornish by tomorrow I'll help. Otherwise buy the book that I mentioned above. It gives pronounciation advice too. The book gives a bit about the history, basically concluding that no-one knows the origin. There's a reference as early as 1660 to 'Haile an Taw' Sorry for not helping more, but typing Cornish for a stranger on a Friday night, well I have to draw the line somewhere... Ed |
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05 Jan 01 - 11:23 PM (#369501) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: Malcolm Douglas If you were to type hal an tow into the rather obvious "Digitrad and Forum Search" box on the main Forum page, there's a pretty good chance that you would find some useful information. That's what search engines are for. |
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06 Jan 01 - 01:22 PM (#369776) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: Malcolm Douglas The most useful references here are, in the Database (Digital Tradition): Helston Hal an Tow and in past discussions in the Forum: Lyr Req: Hal n Toe Hal An Tow: notes? Want first verse to Hal an Tow The Cornish text given in Kennedy's book is a modern translation into Cornish of the traditional English-language song. There isn't a great deal of variation in the song because it's associated with a specific place and annual event; only in recent years has it been sung (by revival performers) outside of its traditional context. Malcolm |
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06 Jan 01 - 10:26 PM (#370124) Subject: Lyr Add: HAAL-ANH-TOH (Ian Hall) From: Thyme2dream (From Calach visiting my babe in Kansas) Ok, english/cornish wallowers, here's a celtic/gaelic/scottish version, which allowed me to sing it up here and not get pelted with rotten vegetables by an angry anti-southern mob!!!! Haal-Anh-Toh By Ian Hall You'll take no scorn to wear the horn, It called the clans 'fore you were born. Your father's father wore it, And your father wore it too.
What happened to the Romans?
Haal an toh, jolly rumballo,
We thank the old brave Ossian
What happened to the Danish,
We wear the eagles feathers,
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06 Jan 01 - 11:01 PM (#370146) Subject: Lyr Add: HAL AN TOW (in Cornish) From: Malcolm Douglas That's interesting as a parody, and I do like the sentiments expressed in the last verse. We should make it clear, though (so that nobody misunderstands) that the song is Cornish and belongs specifically to an annual, traditional festival (revived in 1930 after a period of quiescence of around 70 years) and so is one of those relatively few songs that still belong to a particular, identifiable community, and perhaps shouldn't be messed around with, out of respect for the people to whose tradition it belongs and who keep it alive. Here is the translation into Cornish given in Kennedy's book: HAL-AN-TOW (Translation into Cornish by Talek and Ylewyth) Robin Hood ha Jowan Výghan An dheu res éth dhe 'n fér, O Ha ný 'wra mós dhe 'n gellywyk wér Pyth 'wrellons ena dhe výras, O Rag helghya yorgh, O Rag helghya yorgh ha da Hal-an-tow, fest cabúly, O Rak ný a séf dyworth an tarth a'n jéth, O Ha rag dhe hedhes Haf dhe dré An Haf ha 'n spernen wyn, O Rag Haf üs ow-tós, O Ha Gwaf üs ow-mós, O. Pléma an Spanyer-na A wra fás mar vrás, O? Y whrons ý dybry an blüven goth Ha ný a dheber an golýth, O Yn oll an týryow Py lé yth yllyn, O. 'Wos Sen Jory an marrek-na Sen Jory ef o marrek, O Yn mysk pup oll yn Crystyoneth Sen Jory yú an gwella, O Yn oll an týryow Py lé yth yllyn, O. Durson' An Mary Moses Hag oll hý nell ha nerth, O Ha danvon crés dhyn yn Kernow Ha déth ha nóswyth ynweth, O Ha danvon crés dhe Gernow Ha bys vynary, O. I still haven't found a way to make long accents ("-" superscript) in .html, so have substituted acute accents; these are not used in Cornish, so shouldn't lead to any confusion, though obviously it's less than ideal. I can't at present find biographical details for Talek and Ylewyth, but these are their Bardic names, not their real ones. Both are 20th century. I mistakenly described the first link I gave above as the DT entry; it is in fact another thread, lyr and tune Helston Hal an Tow. The DT entry is here: Hal An Tow. The first link is to the English text, verses 1,2,3 and 5 of which are translated into Cornish here. Malcolm |
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07 Jan 01 - 04:31 AM (#370251) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: GUEST,Marion The Hal an Tow is enacted each year at Helston Flora Day (May 8th depending on Sundays and Market days). If you are in the area make sure you don't miss it. The day starts at 7am with the first Flora Dance and the Hal an Tow begins at 8.30am and continues through the town with the mummers play being enacted at several points. Marion (Cornwall) |
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24 Apr 08 - 06:46 PM (#2324774) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: Forsh As I decided to try to find a definitive version to this song, I have trawled the site for threads, However, non appear to mention the verse my dad (Alan Forshaw) and 'Rumbylowe sang: First Verse: Since winter was created his works have been debated and we have celebrated the coming of the spring. Familiar to anyone else? |
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25 Apr 08 - 01:55 AM (#2324994) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: Malcolm Douglas Mike Waterson wrote that verse. It doesn't belong to the Cornish tradition. |
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25 Apr 08 - 11:59 AM (#2325463) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: Les in Chorlton Since man was created his works have been debated and now are celebrated the coming of the horn I learned this from Barry in 1972. I think it was made up and stuck on the front of the song. It's not on Frost and Fire I don't think |
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25 Apr 08 - 05:41 PM (#2325762) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: Little Robyn The Waterson version is very singable but isn't the way it's done in Helston. Halanto, Jolly rumbello, For we were up as soon as any day-O, And for to fetch the summer home, The summer and the may-O, For summer is a come-O and winter is a-go. Or is it winter is a-gone-O? I've got both versions stuck in my head now. Robyn |
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26 Apr 08 - 04:15 AM (#2326026) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: Les in Chorlton How different is the Watersons version and who helped them shape it so? |
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26 Apr 08 - 07:56 PM (#2326570) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: Little Robyn Halanto, jolly rumbello, We were up long before the day-o To welcome in the summer, the summer and the may-o, For summer is a-coming in and winter's gone away-o The tune is slightly modified to fit those words. You'd have to ask Norma or Mike who modified the words and why. They might have found an earlier version in some archives and it might have been that way until the 'folk process' took over. The Padstow May song has changed over the years, only slightly but enough to be noticeable. But if Mike admits to writing the extra verse, then probably he 'adjusted' the rest of it. However, we learnt the Waterson version first and it still feels easier to sing. Robyn |
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27 Apr 08 - 07:44 AM (#2326786) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: Folkiedave From "Mighty River of Song". Page 37. NORMA We got it from As I Roved Out Peter Kennedy's programme on the Home Service. Lal and I heard somebody singng it there so we never heard the somg as it's sung in Helston. It isn't sung the same. We got the words from somewhere, maybe the Society, maybe Tony Foxworthy, and we sort of remembered the tune as it was by these two old men who sung it on As I Roved Out. We put this tune to thise words but we didn't think it was complete for some reason so our Michael wrote that first verse, "Since Man has been created?". Now people sing it and they think it's part of the Helston song. It's not! In fact we've had people from Helston say "Why do you sing it all wrong?" {Laughter} It was because we didn't know how it was sung basically!" |
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08 May 08 - 09:57 PM (#2336198) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: Forsh Well, I like the Waterson verse, let's call it a folk tradition: the development of a song as it progresses thru time & geography! I will certainly sing it as the first song of the Clennell Hall Folk Festival Later today! Great Weather Guarenteed there in Alwinton, sunny Northumberland, come all ye! |
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08 May 08 - 11:09 PM (#2336256) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: Nerd I've been wondering when the "Take the Scorn and wear the horn" verse was added. That's nicked from Shakespeare, and I don't think it was in the song prior to the twentieth century. Anyone know? |
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25 Feb 09 - 07:25 PM (#2576019) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: GUEST,Little Robin Hood What about an unscrambled version, like this? Robin Hood and Little Shaun to the greenwood they are gone And we will to the forest go to see what they do there oh! Smiles from Sherwood, Little Robin Hood (not Little Robyn, above) |
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26 Feb 09 - 05:56 AM (#2576246) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: Bryn Pugh At slight (!) risk of thread drift, is "ll" in Kernewek pronounced as "ll" in Cymraeg (Welsh) ? |
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26 Feb 09 - 12:05 PM (#2576463) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow From: John P Hal an tow, jolly rumbalow, We were up long before the day-o With provalone on rye bread, With mustard, hold the mayo Sorry . . . |