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13 Jan 01 - 04:51 PM (#374056) Subject: Opinion of Clinton??? From: MarkS A column by George Will in this mornings paper finished with the line, "Clinton may not have been the worst US President, but he certainly was the worst person to be president." Comments anybody? MarkS |
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13 Jan 01 - 04:56 PM (#374058) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: CarolC Greatest president of my lifetime. (I was born in '56). Carol |
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13 Jan 01 - 05:07 PM (#374064) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Greg F. George Will...isn't he part of the "Liberal Media".... Give it four years. There may be a better contender for the title. Best, Greg |
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13 Jan 01 - 05:07 PM (#374065) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Sarah2 Gotcher gas bill lately? Or are we already going to blame that on a guy who hasn't even taken office yet? Sarah |
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13 Jan 01 - 05:09 PM (#374069) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Hollowfox On the other side of the political fence, Molly Ivins pointed out that Clinton was a very good incrementalist, getting many small accomplishments, going back and correcting badly written regulations, etc. For the worst, how about Franklin Pierce? He left the White House during a blizzard to attend his mistress while she gave birth. |
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13 Jan 01 - 05:23 PM (#374076) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: CarolC Sarah2, the gas issue is a red herring. We need to reduce our dependence on non-renewable, pollution causing energy sources. If we do that, we won't be vulnerable to the gas producing countries upon whom we currently dependend. We might also want to re-think our current petrolium export practices. Clinton did not create this problem. The petrolium industry is to blame for that one. Carol |
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13 Jan 01 - 06:32 PM (#374112) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Bill D Clinton was a VERY able politician who did a lot, considering he had no majority in Congress...he was a silly jerk to mess around at work with that....ummmm...twit...., but he had a very good command of the issues, could think on his feet and cared...whether or not you 'like' his views and policies...I sure hope history makes the 'twit' incident a quaint sidelight to the era. I'd love to have seen how where he'd be now if he could have kept his pants zipped... |
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13 Jan 01 - 06:32 PM (#374113) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Little Hawk I very much doubt he was the worst president, he is just the one most hated by conservatives right now. That will change with time. As a private person, he's had a pretty chequered career, with all the extramarital affairs, but then, so did Kennedy. Kennedy, however, was living in a time when the press didn't talk about such things as much as they do now. As a sheer survivor, Clinton must rank as number 1 of all time among US presidents, all things considered. That alone makes him remarkable. I'd give him the following marks (from 1 to 10) : personal morality and honesty - 2 charisma - 8 governing ability - 7 foreign affairs - 6 economy - 8 overall rating - oh, about 6, I guess... - LH |
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13 Jan 01 - 06:43 PM (#374119) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: katlaughing BillD, I agree with you totally. I think he is brilliant, intelligence-wise, a consumate diplomat and politician and will be known as such when history recounts his terms in office, esp, as you pointed out, as he had only a Republican majority to work with in Congress. If there is any blame for gas prices, etc. one should look to the last four years of waste in Congress, while they filled the halls with hot air trying to destroy him. If we'd been able to bottle all of that, we would have energy to spare! kat |
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13 Jan 01 - 08:27 PM (#374167) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: SeanM It's kinda hard to get a perspective on something that's technically not over yet, but I DO think the man will be remembered as a 'good' president. While in office, he didn't do anything to spectacularly stupid to the country (hummers with the humidor excepted), and actually managed to accomplish a few good things along the way. Once again, nothing truly spectacular, but definitely more than a 'caretaker' president. Had the Republican majority NOT been on a witchhunt from the beginning, he might have achieved greatness. As noted above, Clinton was above all an accomplished politician, and as such he took pains to make sure he didn't stray too far to either end of the spectrum... Oh well. Good, but not great. Not a caretaker, but not heavily activist. M |
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13 Jan 01 - 10:33 PM (#374190) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll A brilliant politician. Possibly one of the all-time greats. But a president must be more than just a brilliant politician, he must be a statesman , a consensus builder and a leader. Other presidents have accomplished impressive things without a Senate majority, but Clinton could not. The "why" is complex but I thing it is because he did not have the good of the country in mind. He was more concerned with his power and his image than anything else. That was and is his fatal flaw. It's a pity because I think he could have been great. troll |
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13 Jan 01 - 10:34 PM (#374191) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: rube1 I think he is the antichrist. Actually, never mind. I don't anyone here really wants to know what I think of him. |
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13 Jan 01 - 10:45 PM (#374193) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Sarah2 Really, CarolC, that's pretty good: "Clinton did not create this problem." That's right, and he's done damn-all about energy since he took office. We're about to pay for his non-policy, and not just in heating bills. The price of all kinds of things are going to go up because businesses are going to have to pay those heating bills, too, and the cost will be passed on. Sorry, but I think the guy's a consumate politician, a zero statesman, and a moral bottom-feeder. Sarah |
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13 Jan 01 - 10:46 PM (#374194) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Amos The ANTI Christ? Oh, gimme a fuckin' break, mate. You don't seriously think if there ever WERE such an animal he'd be dumb enough to be elected President, do you? A |
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14 Jan 01 - 12:25 AM (#374224) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Susan from California He had so much potential. Consumate politcian. Consumated too many other things. |
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14 Jan 01 - 12:26 AM (#374225) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Melani Carol C, if you were born in '56, I really think Kennedy has to be right up there with great presidents of your lifetime. When I think of the others, only Clinton and Kennedy seemed to have IQ's above the level of hamsters, even if their social behavior was --er--not quite what it should have been. |
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14 Jan 01 - 01:08 AM (#374233) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: blt IMOUBBO (in my own unvarnished, baby boomer opinion), the major differences between JFK and WJC are class and political era. Diddling one's interns, social secretaries, wife's best friends, the neighbors, maybe even visitors to Lincoln's Bedroom--this habit seems to be viewed as a sign of JFK's virility whereas WJC is portrayed as a sex addict. And isn't it interesting how the First Ladies are treated? Jackie became a saint, Hillary a senator (imagine, having to be embraced by Strom Thurmund, BLGGHGGG). I just think the "religious right" thought they were going to turn the government into a bible study group (lessons which they obviously needed to spend more time on) and got so pissed off that they had to crucify somebody. To make matters worse, WJC even sounds like a good old boy. There was a column by somebody in the paper today, David Sarasohn, I think, who thinks Clinton really looks great, as opposed to Reagan and the Father of George W., who both looked haggard following their presidential years. Somehow I don't picture WJC out building houses with Habitat for Humanity. blt |
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14 Jan 01 - 01:41 AM (#374247) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Melani Perhaps the secret of his vitality is Vitamin S. |
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14 Jan 01 - 03:01 AM (#374259) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: CarolC Everybody is saying that Bill Clinton is a great politician. I don't think that's what he is. I think he's the world's most amazing tightrope walker. I admire tightrope walkers. Bill Clinton has my gratitude and respect for walking such a difficult tightrope on my behalf. Carol |
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14 Jan 01 - 05:07 AM (#374267) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Lonesome EJ Most effective President since Ronald Reagan. Able to articulate his views clearly, and a master shaper of public opinion. The Republicans didn't hate him because he couldn't keep his pants zipped - they hated him because, time and again, he got it his way, often by stealing their own rhetoric and using it against them. Clinton was like a prizefighter that took incredible punishment (often because he dropped his guard) and simply refused to hit the canvas. We'll see what kind of jaw George Jr has. |
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14 Jan 01 - 05:26 AM (#374271) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: SeanM Well, LEJ, so far from his speeches and campaign, I think the obvious answer is "slack". Ducking and weaving, M |
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14 Jan 01 - 06:36 AM (#374276) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: bill\sables I'm not realy into U S politics but last time I was over there someone told me that: George Washington couldn't tell a lie George Bush couldn't tell the truth and Bill Clinton couldn't tell the difference. |
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14 Jan 01 - 10:07 AM (#374313) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Gern I hate to agree with George Will, but Clinton should be remembered as a liar and an opportunist who found his convictions in opinion polls. Ask Gore why he lost the election, and if he's honest, he'll say it was Clinton's shadow. Although he was an improvement on CIA chief/war criminal Bush, that's not saying much. He discarded his campaign pledges about Haiti and China trade, continued assinine policies regarding Iraq and Libya, and his search for a legacy is piling up bodies in the West Bank. Domestically, he championed good ideas like National Health Care with an ineptness that set these causes back a decade. Clinton stumbled thru his first two years, arousing the wrath of accumulated a-holes in Congress, and only after the budget crisis did he seem up for the battle. George W. will make Clinton seem like the good old days, though. |
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14 Jan 01 - 10:22 AM (#374315) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Linda Kelly JFK was a great president and his extra marital wanderings are ignored or dismissed as are some of his other links to less than salubrious characters. It seems that's all the American public want to remember of Clinton. I think he was an extremely effective president especially in foriegn policy. |
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14 Jan 01 - 04:00 PM (#374474) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: kendall Anyone who knows his/her history will agree that the worst president in history was Warren G Harding, followed closely by Useless S Grant. Time tends to fog over the facts, but, Clintons blow job is fresh in our minds. |
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14 Jan 01 - 11:59 PM (#374698) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Peg I liked the man, and I liked the president. Charming, very smart, eloquent, empathetic, savvy. Notg perfect and i did not agree with everything he did but i think bya nd large he did a pretty great job as president. The fact he had a sex drive was actually sorta comforting to me. Pity he got caught with his pants down; but I never though that was anyone;s business but his family's and those directly affecetd by it. The fact that "he lied to the American people" about his sex life is silly. The impeachment, which was over blow jobs and trying to deny what was no one's business (that's what it was about, let's face it), was just silly and wasted a whole lot of time and money that could have been better utilized in other ways. He promised if elected to overturn the so-called "gag" rule under which federally-funded clinics were not allowed to discuss abortion as an option to pregnant women. he overturned itin the first week of his presidency. he has doen his best to uphold women's reproductive rights; in this country, in recent years, that is saying a lot. I'd have blown him, too if I had the same opportunity Monica had. And would never have befriended a monster like Linda Tripp; and would not have had anything left on a dress to even have to worry about whether to take it to the cleaners right away, ro six months later, or never. Two little liberal ole ladies were discussing it on the bus and when they said oh that girl's poor parents, I interjected and said "I dunno, if my daughter had sesx with the president I'd be proud; I mean, that was pretty cool," they said, aw, you're so cute... but I digress I suppose. No human being is perfect. Those who aspire to political power are perhaps flawed, and gifted, in ways unique to that sort of ambition. We must bear that in mind when judging such individuals.
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15 Jan 01 - 01:34 AM (#374726) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: katlaughing LOL, Peg you are just *right on*!! Love your take on it/him and that last statement is profound, womon! Thanks! kat |
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15 Jan 01 - 09:21 AM (#374823) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: kendall Peg, you said it better than I ever could! |
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15 Jan 01 - 11:59 AM (#374917) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Peg Peg for President! Sex in the Whitehouse! |
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15 Jan 01 - 12:12 PM (#374922) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Jock Morris President Peg, can I interest you in some foreign affairs?:-) Scott |
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15 Jan 01 - 12:19 PM (#374925) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Peg I have always said, the United States needs to build a stronger alliance with Scotland! If I promise we won't drill for oil in the Hebrides, will you promise to import/relocate some of your finest distillery operations? The White House need a good excuse to serve porridge, smoked salmon and Macallan at breakfast...
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15 Jan 01 - 12:36 PM (#374931) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Murray MacLeod Complete with bagpipes, naturally. Murray |
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15 Jan 01 - 12:46 PM (#374936) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: TonyK I have always liked Clinton a real lot and the polls state that many other people do also. He sure had a lot of people that really hated him as well. He epitomizes the hero/scapegoat role of the dysfunctional family. By the way, dysfunctional to me means having problems and working very hard to pretend there are none. If you want to know what's wrong in a dysfunctional family, just ask the scapegoat; he's wearing it. |
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15 Jan 01 - 04:02 PM (#375048) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: GUEST,guest,guest,guest(intruder) more effective than the real Mr Bush, but far less principled. as to G W Bush... May the Mother hide us from that one. the man's a bottom feeder if there ever was one. |
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15 Jan 01 - 04:33 PM (#375068) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: CarolC (Thread creep alert!) TonyK, can you recommend any good books about the hero/scapegoat dynamic in the dysfunctional family? Thanks. Carol |
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15 Jan 01 - 04:54 PM (#375083) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: GUEST,Scott Peg, Monica didn't just have sex with the President, she had sex with a married man. I think it says a lot about the state of our nation when that kind of behavior gets applauded. -Scott |
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15 Jan 01 - 07:16 PM (#375149) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: kendall Who is applauding that behavior? |
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15 Jan 01 - 08:19 PM (#375177) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Peg I don't recall saying I applauded it. But, you are right, Mr. Clinton is a married man. Most married men in the United States, if not in most of the world, have had extramarital dalliances. Do the math. I'm not saying that is good behavior, or bad behavior. It simply is. Its damage or significance depends largely upon the situation, I imagine. I am generally in favor of open marriages, BTW; or at least a marriage in which the participants may be honest with each other about their desire or need to engage in extramarital sex. Most people have affairs because they are bored or dissatisfied sexually. If people could be honest with each other about these urges, and find some acceptable way to address the problem, perhaps the occasions would not arise where they were forced to lie about their behavior. All that said, it is NO ONE's business but Hillary's who her husband is bonking besides her. Oh, and as far as the state of our nation is concerned: I think if we started seeing our commanders-in-chief as human beings with human desires and foibles, we'd have a better clue what sort of men and women we should vote for. peg
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15 Jan 01 - 09:20 PM (#375207) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: kendall We non-philanderes are in the minority. No question there. |
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15 Jan 01 - 10:31 PM (#375233) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: SandyBob Right on, Peg. |
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16 Jan 01 - 12:48 AM (#375280) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: katlaughing You go, womon!!! Couldn't have said it better m'self. Can I be your PR person for your campaign?**BG**
kat |
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16 Jan 01 - 03:52 AM (#375302) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Jock Morris Macallan for breakfast? Well I suppose as long as it's after 10am:-) I suppose we could ship one or two distilleries over, but you have to promise to take back MacDonalds as part of the deal. Scott |
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16 Jan 01 - 11:39 AM (#375321) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Kim C My opinion on the Monica thing is, since they did it in his OFFICE that WE PAY FOR while he was supposed to be WORKING (which WE ALSO PAY FOR), it sure as hell WAS our BUSINESS. If I had got caught diddling around in my office during working hours I'd be in a world of hurt and I reckon most of you would be too. And he lied on the stand. What he lied ABOUT is silly to a lot of people but the fact remains that he PERJURED himself, which the last time I checked, was a CRIME. Little white lie or no, perjury is AGAINST THE LAW and little people go to JAIL for such. NOW... that being said... he was a skillful statesman, which is an important quality in a world leader. He has a very down to earth quality about him, which is why I voted for him the first time. I would be perfectly happy to have him over to my house for a bowl of chili and a beer, but I would not catch myself alone with him in a room anywhere. I was on his side on the Paula Jones thing. If I had tried to sue every man that ever made an unwanted pass at me I'd be rich enough for us ALL to retire. I mean, give me a break. He behaved badly but nothing actually happened so let's go on about our business. What did she expect going up to a man's hotel room, anyhow? What a lot of us seem to forget is that the President is not all-powerful; but for some reason, anytime something happens here that we don't like, it's the President's fault, and we want the President to fix it, when we should be taking the Senate and the Congress to task instead. What I really resent is Monica's celebrity status. Some of us actually WORK for a living. |
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16 Jan 01 - 12:06 PM (#375348) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: kendall As I understand it, he answered the prosecutors question accprding to the guidelines which THEY used. In their interpretation of sex, a blow job is not sex! So, it is hair splitting, sure, but what do you expect from lawyers? |
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16 Jan 01 - 12:15 PM (#375363) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll Of course Clinton looks better than Reagan or Bush did after their stints as President. He's a hell of a lot younger now than either one of them was when they left ofice. As far as JFK being a good president, if he hadn't gotten killed, he would have gone down as a mediocre President. He actually accomplished very little. Most of the civil rights work was done by Johnson. The major thing that I see Kennedy having done was to escalate the US presence in Viet Nam. BTW, when are the troops going to be brought home from Bosnia, etc? I mean, the elections over and Clinton doesn't need them there to bolster his image as caring and compassionate any more. troll |
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16 Jan 01 - 12:15 PM (#375365) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll Of course Clinton looks better than Reagan or Bush did after their stints as President. He's a hell of a lot younger now than either one of them was when they left ofice. As far as JFK being a good president, if he hadn't gotten killed, he would have gone down as a mediocre President. He actually accomplished very little. Most of the civil rights work was done by Johnson. The major thing that I see Kennedy having done was to escalate the US presence in Viet Nam. BTW, when are the troops going to be brought home from Bosnia, etc? I mean, the elections over and Clinton doesn't need them there to bolster his image as caring and compassionate any more. troll |
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16 Jan 01 - 12:26 PM (#375373) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: mousethief Kennedy did launch the moon race, and the Peace Corps, both very good things for our country. But you're right, Troll, if he hadn't been killed, he wouldn't be such a hero today. He was a mediocre president who had the foresight to be assasinated. We still have troops in Bosnia? I thought they were in Serbia/Kosovo. By the way it really pisses me off when they say on the radio "the border between Kosovo and Serbia proper" as if Kosovo isn't a proper part of Serbia. Grrrr. Alex |
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16 Jan 01 - 12:56 PM (#375402) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: kendall At least Clinton didnt send Marines into a combat zone with no bullets! |
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16 Jan 01 - 01:24 PM (#375441) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Fiolar As a non American, I would just like to make two points. (1). If Kennedy had not stood up to Kruschev in the little matter of the Cuban missiles, I wonder if there would be an America today? (2). Clinton did more for the peace process in Northern Ireland than any other politician. |
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16 Jan 01 - 01:27 PM (#375444) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: mousethief Okay, the moon race, the Peace Corps, and the Cuban Missile Crisis. But other than THAT, what did Kennedy do for us? |
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16 Jan 01 - 03:30 PM (#375556) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Kim C He looked mahvelous? |
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16 Jan 01 - 03:32 PM (#375561) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Bert Why does everyone pick on Clinton for having a little sex? We've had a president who raped a 15 year old slave girl. One who carted his mistress all over Europe at our expense. And one who got us involved in a international scandal at serious risk to our national security. And our Bill gets impeached for a blow job? Bert. |
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16 Jan 01 - 04:08 PM (#375585) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: GUEST,petr One of the best kept secrets about the cuban missile crisis is that as a result of the Russians pulling their missiles out of Cuba, the US had to pull their missiles out of Turkey. (the Russians had a valid reason to complain about those, as the US did about Cuban missiles) I personally feel that bringing the World to the brink of Nuclear war was not a great act of statesmanship. If the Russians hadnt given in to the bluff we wouldnt be here now to discuss it. Anyway the missiles themselves were obsolete in a few years as any nuclear sub carries enough missiles to destroy dozens of cities. As for Clinton losing the election for Gore, I think thats completely off given the popularity of Clinton over either Bush or Gore. Clinton would have won by a landslide. Gore lost the election because he ran a lousy campaign and because he distanced himself from Clinton. As far as the impeachment and the sex scandal, (I agree with Peg 100%) it was no ones business. I think Iran Contra was a much worse scandal, and Reagan should have been impeached over it but he couldnt ''remember' anything relevant. Either he knew and lied about it or he didnt know, in which case he wasnt in charge. I think Clinton will be remembered well.
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16 Jan 01 - 04:42 PM (#375611) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: McGrath of Harlow "the man's a bottom feeder if there ever was one"
My oh my! That'll put Clinton's fumbles with Monica into the shade won't it!
"Gore lost the election because..." He disn't lose the elction. He won the election and lost the count. Lost it by on vote in a bent Supreme Court. (I don't mean he didn't do remarkably badly - a candidate who didn't anihilate Baby Bush is a pretty remarkable sort of candidate...) |
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16 Jan 01 - 05:46 PM (#375671) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Kim C Like I said, he did it in his office during working hours when he was supposed to be working. I don't pay him for those kind of jobs. ;) |
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16 Jan 01 - 05:48 PM (#375675) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: mousethief Hey, everybody gets a 5-minute break twice a day! |
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16 Jan 01 - 05:56 PM (#375682) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: SeanM Not in America! It's two 15 minutes and a half hour lunch, more if he's doing over 8 hours... From what she's said, she's *ahem* somewhat talented at her aformentioned tasks, so I'd hope that allowed Bill to take a "break" at least 2 times a day, while still keeping it "off the clock". M |
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16 Jan 01 - 06:42 PM (#375717) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: McGrath of Harlow Wasn't it Angie Dickinson who said of her knee-tremble with Jack Kennedy that it was the best 30 seconds of her life?
Anyway wasn't Bill supposed to have been on the phone to some high officialo at the time? Still on the job on the job, as you might say. Can't wait for the musical. |
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16 Jan 01 - 06:53 PM (#375732) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: mousethief Oh I was a-blowin' off Yeltsin While she was a-blowin' me I was on a tirade And she was on her knee I gave him a good tongue-lashing While her tongue was lashing me Oh I was a-blowin' off Yeltsin While she was a-blowin' me I'll write the libretto. Alex |
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16 Jan 01 - 06:57 PM (#375736) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: SeanM Why do I get some odd image of an entire world leader teleconference, all with appropriate interns at the same time, breaking into song and dance? "HummerGate, the Musical!" AAAAAUUUUGGGGGHHH!!! M |
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16 Jan 01 - 07:12 PM (#375750) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll Clinton didn't get impeached for getting a bj in the oval office. He was impeached for lieing under oath. Believe it or not, all spin aside, there IS a difference. BTW, the Palm Beach Post said, in a very small article today that the Miami-Dade undercount has been completed. Bush picked up six (6) votes. Accept it Kevin. Gore lost.Fair and square. By our rules, he lost. The count is proving it. The groups accusing Florida of dis-enfranchising black voters are having their day in court. The NAACP is not there. Jesse Jackson is not there. They have not produced one, single black voter who was eligible to vote who was not allowed to. Not one. One man was on the list as a felon. A call to the supervisor of elections fixed that. He voted. A black lady was stopped by a police roadblock and asked for her drivers license. She produced it and went on her way. She voted. Where is the media with its front-page banner headlines, its TV talking heads, spreading this news? You tell me. I've had to dig this stuff out the hard way. The media is out reporting how awful it is thet Ashcroft believes in God. This is the same media that praised Gore for choosing Joe Lieberman, an Orthodox Jew, as his running mate and they didn't blink an eye when he talked about HIS belief in God during the campaign. Go figure. troll |
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16 Jan 01 - 07:17 PM (#375755) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: SeanM Actually, the media I've seen is reporting several of Ashcroft's previous statements made while a Senator about his strong beliefs and his stated beliefs that the laws that he'll be expected to uphold are wrong. They are also reporting his statements made during his confirmation hearing that he'll uphold them equally even if he doesn't believe in them. It's all about whether you believe him or not. I don't. M
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16 Jan 01 - 08:06 PM (#375790) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: GUEST,petr ok re: 'gore lost the election' I stand corrected, it wasnt a stolen election as that implies that its illegal rather it was appropriated by the supreme court jesters (in their lame, completely partisan decision). As more nationwide results trickle in the total lead is over 530,000 more votes for Gore than Bush. despite all the talk about bipartisanship Bush is acting like he won a landslide rather than squeaked through. the republican campaign to impeach and discredit Clinton suffered a big blow () when one of the top Republicans admitted to having committed adultery. (He then withdrew his nomination for house leader- would have been a bit hypocritical. Lets face it the republicans were trying to dig up anything they could on Clinton and all they got was a bit of hanky panky. Conversely during the Iran-Contra scandal Bush and Reagan got off (cause Reagan coudnt remember anything and Bush didnt know) does anyone really believe that. and does anyone think that the Iran Contra affair was less important than Clintons fancy footwork on the semantics of fellatio. Get real.. |
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16 Jan 01 - 08:15 PM (#375796) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll Once again, Clinton was impeached because he lied under oath. What he lied about doesn't amount to a pinch of shit in the wind. He took an oath to tell the truth and then he lied. THAT'S why he was impeached. For petes sake, do your homeword instead of listening to the spin. SeanM, Why don't you believe Ashcroft will uphold the laws even if he doesn't agree with them? He did it in Missouri as Governor and as Atourney General. He did it as a Senator. Why not now? troll |
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16 Jan 01 - 08:26 PM (#375804) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: kendall Not according to what I've been reading Troll.. And, as I stated before, within the narrow definition which the PROSECUTORS put forth, he did not lie. |
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16 Jan 01 - 08:39 PM (#375818) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: SeanM Troll, To be honest, I don't have solid reasons. 's why it's my opinion... I just feel very strongly that while I don't believe he would violate any laws that he does not agree with, I fully believe him capable and willing of classifying any abortion issue crimes and the like as "not priority" and letting the issue fall away. M |
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16 Jan 01 - 09:00 PM (#375833) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll Fair enough Sean. Thanks. troll |
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16 Jan 01 - 11:44 PM (#375906) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Peg kat: you crack me up! You've got the job if you want it. If I win you can be my press secretary! Scott: would gladly remove McDonald's from the UK, no problem. When I was in Salisbury in October, was looking for a place to get some dinner late one night. I asked a pub owner if any pubs were still serving, and he said I'd just missed it, but there was a McDonald's, a Burger King, etc etc. I said, you DO know I'm an American right? yeh, he said. I said, well, I don't eat that crap in the States, I sure as hell didn't cross the ocean to eat it! He laughed and pointed me towards the Indian place next door... about Monica: Not to get cruder than absolutely necessary (then again look at who I'm talking to here!), but she couldn't have been *that* good, if the president was always using his sink to finish the job...if you know what I mean. Okay, I better shut up before I get in trouble. Back to watching the Ashcroft scandal on Nightline...
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17 Jan 01 - 08:56 AM (#376093) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: kendall Dont shut up Peg! 1st amendment and all... |
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17 Jan 01 - 09:44 AM (#376142) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Gervase I'm a big fan of WJC. I finished reading Primary Colors on the train this morning, and emerged liking the guy even more. Yes, he's fallible, has his brains in his penis and isn't above a little economy with the truth - but what politician ever is. I do think he actually cared, and wanted to help those at the bottom of the pile. I was fortunate enough to do a couple of press trips with him, and the guy had the most astonishing charisma - he was addicted to human touch, and would talk to and warm to people even if there were no hacks or cameraman around. It's just too bad the poor sod couldn't have been president at another time, when the media and the world at large may have been more tolerant. I sometimes wonder how even FDR would stand up to the modern spotlight... |
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17 Jan 01 - 10:08 AM (#376152) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Wolfgang Troll wrote on 16th of January the Palm Beach Post said, in a very small article today that the Miami-Dade undercount has been completed. Bush picked up six (6) votes..
Well, I found the article 'the hard way' in the January, 14th edition (maybe when you wrote 'today' you meant 'today ago', grin). -Troll could have told us from that same article that at least 2,257 voters apparently poked at their ballot cards without properly inserting them into the voting machines. Miami-Dade County Elections Supervisor David Leahy said that's because the voters failed to follow directions. Of these miscast votes, 302 more would have gone for Gore than Bush. But troll didn't tell us that. -Troll could have told us that the Post review, however, found that the rate of voting mishaps was greater in black-majority precincts than elsewhere.. But troll didn't tell us that. Don't trust troll to give you a balanced view even if the information looks like a direct citation from a newspaper. Judge for yourself: Palm Beach Post (14th of January). Wolfgang |
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17 Jan 01 - 11:39 AM (#376200) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll The "legal" votes gave Bush a six vote advantage. The way the count was run and the things that would be counted were not set by me. They were set by the agencies and media doing the count. You can "what if" until you are blue in the face and it won't change a thing. Would you would like to go back and recount using a different standard for what constitutes a legitimate vote? In that case you might very well come up with a majority for Gore. That is basically what the Democartic praty tried to do in the first place; change the rules until our guy wins. The fact that voting mishaps were greater in black precincts merely says that the people in those precincts didn't pay attention to what they were doing and failed to follow directions. It is the duty of the voter to be prepared, to read and understand the directions and to seek aid if they do not. If a voter fails to do this, how can it be the fault of a candidate? By all means, you should NEVER believe anything you read without checking it out for yourself. Thats common sense. I have my own agenda, of course and will report as much or as little as I wish. Your report and comentary of my posting Wolfgang does not change a single thing.Bush picked up six more votes. The rest is fluff which tries to minimize that fact. The rules were agreed upon beforehand. The results are plain. troll |
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17 Jan 01 - 11:39 AM (#376202) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: GUEST,Russ I found him by far the most polished and interesting speaker since Kennedy. Loved that Arkansas accent. His entertainment value was unprecedented. Bush seems so one-dimensional compared to Clinton. I was usually bored with the media coverage of Clinton's peccadilloes and by the pontificating about them, but I was never bored with him, even when I didn't approve. I have positive feelings about his political track record, especially foreign policy. I think he manged to accomplished a lot in spite of himself. I'll miss him and I didn't even vote for him. |
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17 Jan 01 - 11:43 AM (#376205) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: GUEST,button The first Mr. Bush had a girlfriend for years. When it was discovered and reported the reporter lost his job. When a leader of a foriegn country said, can I invade Kuwait? the old bastard said sure, go ahead. Then proceeded to blow up 4 or 5 nations substance in effort to look like some righteous person. He is a murderer and a thief. At least so far, the son is just a thief. Bill Clinton has a God to judge his morals. I sent him to Washington to do a job. He did it Very Well. |
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17 Jan 01 - 01:38 PM (#376312) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: GUEST,petr hey troll, now that we know that Bush lied about the dui conviction should we put him in a can of peaches too? Get real. |
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17 Jan 01 - 01:44 PM (#376324) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: GUEST,kendall How about we all calm down and wait for the "Sunshine law" to finish? Then we will know who won. |
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17 Jan 01 - 01:55 PM (#376331) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: McGrath of Harlow The crucial thing with the election wasn't actually how the votes might turn out in the end - it was that one of the candidates who was ahead tried to stop the counting because he was worried that a full count might turn the result round.
The fact that it was Bush rather than Gore didn't affect the principle. Anyone who acts like that isn't fit to be elected sewage-disposal officer.
Clinton? Apart from Northern Ireland a bit of a waste of space, but that's quite a big "apart from". I reckon he'll be back in the White House in time, maybe as VP, or perhaps they'll change the rules so that it's only more than two consecutive term that are forbidden. |
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17 Jan 01 - 03:32 PM (#376407) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Kim C heheheheh the prosecutors obviously don't get much do they heheheheheh |
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17 Jan 01 - 05:50 PM (#376497) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Gervase Kevin's right - if Slick Willy could find some way to meet all 250 million Americans in the flesh, you'd never get him out of the White House. I remember him at the 50th anniversary events at Normandy, where he met the Rangers who stormed the cliffs at Point du Hoc - one of the most remarkables acts of heroism on a remarkable day. This was when the "draft dodger" label was stil firmly attached to him, and these gizzled old vets were distinctly wary of meeting some young pup who they thought had funked his duty. Within minutes of meeting them he'd bonded and connected with each and every one of them, and some of those who were most vociferous in their criticism only minutes before were completely won over; some of them in tears at what they saw as his empathy and the way he managed to express the gratitude of another generation. I'm not saying that's a good thing - in fact it could be seen as cynical by the Republicans among you - but, hell, does that guy have charisma. It was the same at Rabin's funeral on Mt Herzl; a difficult time politically for at least four nations, but WJC, through sheer force of personality, managed to bring together some very disparate types using old fashioned toughy-feely politics and body language. As I said earlier, flawed, but capable of being inspirational. I couldn't help but love the guy and hate myself for doing so! |
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17 Jan 01 - 06:37 PM (#376533) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll Petr, what on EARTH are you talking about. It's hard to respond to something so cryptic. troll |
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18 Jan 01 - 02:23 PM (#377110) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: mousethief Troll -- "put in a can of peaches" = "im-peach-ment" Get it? It's a joke, son, a joke. Alex |
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18 Jan 01 - 02:57 PM (#377130) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: kendall Does anyone remember when "The Actor" visited the SS graveyard in Bittburg? |
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18 Jan 01 - 03:06 PM (#377135) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: mousethief I do! I do! What do I win, Kendall? Alex |
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18 Jan 01 - 11:10 PM (#377489) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: JamesJim Two words come to mind. 1) Egotistical (2) Jerk Jim |
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18 Jan 01 - 11:51 PM (#377512) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: kendall also Rhodes scholar, and charismatic egotistical jerk |
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18 Jan 01 - 11:58 PM (#377515) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll petr, Bush wasn't under oath. But, since Clinton is your boy I guess anything he did is a-ok, right? About the only thing I see that Clinton did was to take credit for the economic recovery that started two years before he took office. Oh yes. And bomb an aspirin factory. You want him? He's yours and welcome to him. troll |
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19 Jan 01 - 09:31 AM (#377687) Subject: RE: : Opinion of Clinton??? From: GUEST,Poodlepup I thought he was fairly effective as a president. Definitely the Teflon Title should be surrendered by Reagan to Clinton. If he could have kept his pants up he would be remembered more favorably. I didn't really care, but it does look like CYA when he said he didn't have a relationship. And he was married to Hillary, with an impressionable teenager in the house. Very bad! Clinton both thrived and faltered in foreign policy. He pushed for peace in Ireland and Israel...maybe a little too hard. He needed to wear away the edges of the division instead of rushing in with a jackhammer. But Clinton was instrumental in opening the dialogue. In Russia, too, too many things were just out of Clinton's hands when it came to reform and influence. I do think he tried pretty hard to convince Russian leaders of the importance of free press, which still is in existence. The only place he won (economically) and failed (on human rights, miserably) was in China. I don't think "most favored nation status" should have been permanently granted to a communist country with such a dismal record of dealing with dissent. I think Clinton at home was a great pragmatist, and did have to walk a tightrope when it came to hostile Congressional blustering. It was like watching 150 hit men. The 1994 Congress was the worst. Kenneth Starr was the biggest waste of my tax dollars. So on the home front, except for generating scandals that cost zillions to investigate, I'd give Clinton a 9. His repoire with Tony Blair (both Oxford-educated lawyers married to lawyers) was great. They both liked to debate issues and laugh. I don't think Bush will have that luxery. On the economy: mediocre. But I do understand it's not popular to be concerned with the environment in this day and age. |
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19 Jan 01 - 09:45 AM (#377701) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: kendall How about The Actor claiming credit for the fall of communism? and who bombed Kaddafes child? I remember Bush saying that the economy had turned the corner, well, it didnt leave any skid marks in front of my place. Lets face it, Bill Gates had much more to do with the economy than ANY politician. Furthermore, Lec Walesa and Grobechev get the credit for the fall of communism. The actor had little if anything to do with it. |
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19 Jan 01 - 10:01 AM (#377714) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll Reagan had a lot to do with it. He built up the US military and initiated "Star Wars" (a mistake if ever there was one) and Russia went broke trying to keep up. I can understand why the economy didn't leave skid marks outside your door, Kendall. Upturns are rarely as abrupt as downturns but any competent economic analyst will tell you that the upturn started on Bush Sr's watch. The bombing of Lybia was meant to send a mesage that we were not going to be messed with. The death of an innocent child as a result was tragic. Clintons bombing of the aspirin factory and his incursion into the Balkans were based on a need to divert attention from his own personal problems. To me, there is a difference. troll |
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19 Jan 01 - 11:36 AM (#377771) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Little Hawk Peg - Bunch of very good posts there. Bravo! - LH |
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19 Jan 01 - 12:53 PM (#377853) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: McGrath of Harlow Rhodes scholar, and charismatic egotistical jerk
Isn't that Kris Kristofferson? Maybe he'll be President some day. |
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19 Jan 01 - 12:55 PM (#377856) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: mousethief Show me anybody capable of becoming president of the USA who isn't an egotistical jerk. You have to really have a high opinion of yourself to even RUN for the job. Alex |
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19 Jan 01 - 01:01 PM (#377863) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll Yeah but Clinton sorta set the curve, if you know what I mean. troll |
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19 Jan 01 - 01:02 PM (#377866) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: mousethief You mean he was MORE of an egotist than Nixon? Hardly. Clinton didn't take all disagreement with himself as nearly tantamount to treason. Alex |
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19 Jan 01 - 01:34 PM (#377888) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: GUEST,guestseuguest(intruder)geist was my "bottom feeder" comment inaccurate? no was it a judgement? absolutely i know people who voted for gore because he has a "lower damage potential" i predict that there will be NO blowjobs in the white house (that we find out about), but i'd head for the tall grass now. |
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19 Jan 01 - 01:41 PM (#377893) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: mousethief That's why *I* voted for Gore, so you're spot-on in my case, intruder. Alex |
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19 Jan 01 - 01:42 PM (#377894) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll Clinton and Nixon had totally different styles and to even attempt to compare them is difficult. Nixon was cold, paranoid, and absolutely sure of the corectness of his decisions. Clinton is, by all accounts, one of the most charming and likeable people you would ever want to meet. He puts people at ease and makes them feel that he genuinely cares about them. I have read this from people as diverse as John Travolta and Neil Boortz the Libertarian talk show host and Boortz does NOT like Clinton. You tell me. troll |
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19 Jan 01 - 02:00 PM (#377914) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: kendall I'm afraid they are all tarred with the same brush folks. I didn't vote for Gore, I voted against Bush. |
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19 Jan 01 - 03:14 PM (#377982) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Dunc From a humble Scotsman's point of view, Bill did me a favour when he got involved with Monica. I was in the shower one night when for some strange reason I found myself thinking about Monica and cigars. Why that should be, I do not know. What I do know is that by the time I got out of the shower I had written a new song....the lyrics of which someone sent in to the Mudcat Cafe. I have been singing the song at every chance before Bill finally becomes Mr Clinton again. It was listed under I'M MONICA LEWINSKY by however sent the words in, but I prefer the title of "THE END OF MY OLD CIGAR". |
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19 Jan 01 - 03:24 PM (#377988) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: GUEST,Buddy I love Bill uncondionally. He's keeping me and getting rid of that stupid Socks. |
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19 Jan 01 - 03:26 PM (#377989) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll Dunc, The End Of Me Old Cigar is the title of an old music-hall song: While I was out a-walking One evening in the park I came across a lady A-standing in the dark. She said,"Could you assist me,sir, I've wandered rather far So I takes a puff and I shows 'er the way With the end of me old cigar. Ch. Oh, the end of me old cigar. Tra la la la la la I takes a puff and I shows 'er the way with the end of me old cigar! That's not the first or only verse but I can't remember any more right now. troll |
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19 Jan 01 - 03:38 PM (#377995) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Dunc The old music hall song was where I got the idea from. |
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19 Jan 01 - 05:15 PM (#378066) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll Great minds... troll |
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19 Jan 01 - 05:24 PM (#378073) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: mousethief where? |
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20 Jan 01 - 04:17 PM (#378575) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll They are everywhere to those that have the wit to see them. troll ***** Alex, you are a GREAT straight man. Thanks for all the good lines.**** |
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21 Jan 01 - 09:55 AM (#378962) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Skeptic Or seem to be everywhere to those with half a wit or less? A gentle reminder to all that Troll is often delusional; And has the papers to prove it. Regards John |
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21 Jan 01 - 05:19 PM (#379174) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: kendall Well, the shrub is in the White House. It's a done deal. It reminds me of a quote from Omar Khayyam. The moving finger writes, and, having writ moves on Nor all your piety or wit can lure it back To cancel half a line, nor all your tears wash out a word of it. I hope you Nader voters sleep better than I do. |
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21 Jan 01 - 09:11 PM (#379299) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: DougR Kendall: A blow job isn't sex? When's the last time you had one in Luby's? :>) Troll: You really are a wonder. Incidentially, anybody read a newspaper lately? DougR |
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21 Jan 01 - 09:29 PM (#379304) Subject: RE: BS: Opinion of Clinton??? From: Troll Flattery will get you a beer. Skeptic, actually I DON'T have papers to prove it. The cat ate them. troll
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