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18 Jan 01 - 09:10 PM (#377409) Subject: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Uncle_DaveO There is a German comic folk(?) song which was sung by Richard Dyer-Bennett, called Nu Ja Ja. "Nu Ja Ja" is a sort of chorus line which keeps coming back. It seems that a young man named Krenzlkraut is courting a madchen named Rosl, asking her to marry him. In effect she says she's too young to marry. He replies something to the effect that if she's too young to marry he will be--what? I don't understand enough of the German to be sure. In any case, this impresses her, and yes, she'll marry him. I'd love to get ahold of the complete German text and a translation. Can anyone help? DAve Oesterreich |
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18 Jan 01 - 09:24 PM (#377426) Subject: Lyr Add: DIE SPRÖDE (trad. German) From: Sorcha Well, here is the German:
DIE SPRÖDE
Schlesisches Volkslied
5. Bist du jung und heiratst nicht? from here:http://ingeb.org/Lieder/roselwen.html if you want to check it.......
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18 Jan 01 - 09:30 PM (#377432) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Sorcha And here is a kind of sort of translation:
The brittle
Schlesi people song
5. Are you young and heiratst not? Seems to be a male/female call and response song, ,maybe Mudgaurd could do better with a translation.......!
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19 Jan 01 - 02:39 AM (#377560) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Ebbie Sorcha, thanks for a good laugh! I was going along translating in my lame German until I came to your 'impact you rather in the face'! Great - and unexpected- line. Just for the fun of it- until a German speaker comes along, here is my translation: Rose, when will you be mine? (I don't know what 'nu' means. Maybe 'nun'? as in never? And do my will? Never, yes, yes, yes Your will I will not do Never, yes, yes, yes I'd rather be hit in the face Never, etc... Rose, (what's pfluck?) the Kranzelkraut Never, etc... You will be my bride! Never, etc... Kranzelkraut, I do (blank) not Never, etc I am young and will not marry Never, etc Are you young and will not marry? Never, yes, yes, yes I am proud and I don't need you Never, yes, yes, yes So, come on, you German readers and set us straight! Ebbie |
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19 Jan 01 - 03:21 AM (#377569) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Joe Offer Well, it looks so simple, but I miss parts of it. It's a folk song from Silesia, which is now in Poland- or is it from Schleswig-Holstein near Denmark? And then I don't know what wuerst is (not Wurst, which is sausage) - I think it could be a variation of waerest, which is the second person singular present subjunctive of "to be" - so I'd translate the first line, "Rosie, if you were mine." And "Nu Ja..." could be considered a noncomittal response, or maybe it HE that's saying it, just to carry on the conversation... OK, so here goes: He: Rosie, if you were mine...And to come up with that, I took two years of German in high school, one in college, 8 months full-time in the Defense Language Institute, and lived in Berlin two years. Maybe I shoulda stuck with Latin and Greek. Actually, I knew what it meant, but translating is another matter. -Joe Offer- |
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19 Jan 01 - 04:34 AM (#377579) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Wolfgang A fine job, you did, between you. Some lines have more than one possible sense if you don't look for the context. But the final result looks very good. Three remarks: (1) I think he is singing the last line (in a sense of 'If you say no, I tell you that I don't like you either'), but there is nothing in the lyrics that excludes Joe's interpretation. (2) I think, Ebbie's right and 'nu' is 'nun', here best translated by 'well'. (3) I haven't found Kraenzelkraut yet in my largest dictionaries. Perhaps that is a local name for a common plant. But whatever that plant is, it is to be picked for the bride's wreath, an outdated German custom. And 'pick that plant' has definitely the meaning of 'prepare to marry' or in Joe's translation 'go pick somekindaplantformakingthebrideswreath' Wolfgang |
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19 Jan 01 - 08:29 AM (#377646) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Snuffy Wolfgang Maybe there is no plant called Kraenzelkraut - doesn't it just mean "flowers/plants for your bridal wreath", whatever they may be? As I recall Kraut is often used to mean "herb". Would A German bridal wreath traditionally contain herbs like rosemary, thyme etc? Do these herbs have the same sort of meaning that they do in English folksong? And would she wear the wreath on her head or carry it in front of her? Wassail! V |
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19 Jan 01 - 08:53 AM (#377660) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Wolfgang Snuffy, I hope you'll get more information from others than from me. I did a search on some pages since I knew nearly nothing. Here are some responses:
-the bridal wreath (Brautkranz, Jungfernkranz) is fixed to the hair of the bride Your guess as to what Kränzelkraut could be might well be true. Wolfgang |
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19 Jan 01 - 09:15 AM (#377678) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Snuffy Vielen Dank |
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19 Jan 01 - 09:29 AM (#377686) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Wolfgang as to the question who sings which line I have found this:
Verse 1 he, verse 2 she, verse 3 he, verse 4 she and verse 5 he (also the last line!). The between lines (nu ja ja, nu..) are sung by the opposite sex, respectively. So from the beginning, in Sorcha's post, the gender singing per line is: Wolfgang |
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19 Jan 01 - 10:31 AM (#377734) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Uncle_DaveO I'm going to have to dig out Richard Dyer-Bennett's version. I HAVE been known to be wrong (gasp!) but from my recollection and my admittedly poor German, in his version she relents in the last verse. Back later after comparing the text given above with the record. Dave Oesterreich |
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19 Jan 01 - 10:45 AM (#377736) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Sorcha Hey, I knew "my" translation was a crock, it was just what happened when I told Copernic to translate! I really liked the "impact you rather in the face" too! I posted it last nite, and I am still giggling! |
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19 Jan 01 - 12:13 PM (#377813) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Uncle_DaveO My recollection of Dyer-Bennett's record was correct. Here is the last verse as he sings it, as best I can make it out, and missing one word which I can't catch: Bist du stolz und magst ich nicht?
Can anyone make an educated guess the "Glaub ich" line should be, from context? Dave Oesterreich |
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19 Jan 01 - 12:50 PM (#377850) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Uncle_DaveO I guess I should provide what I THINK the translation would be, more or less: If you're proud and don't like me Dave Oesterreich |
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19 Jan 01 - 01:47 PM (#377901) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Sorcha It just occured to me that "nu" is Yiddish...... |
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19 Jan 01 - 01:48 PM (#377903) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Ebbie It's such fun to try something at which I know I'm incompetent! I'd say this is:
Are you proud and paymenoattention? Eb
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19 Jan 01 - 02:20 PM (#377944) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Uncle_DaveO I like that! Dave Oesterreich |
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19 Jan 01 - 07:40 PM (#378147) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Rollo "Nu" seems just a local expression for "Yes" in some german dialects of the eastern areas. For sure in saxony and expecially in the lausitz area where originally sorbic, a slavonian language is spoken. It sounds also very "schlesisch" to me. Rollo |
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19 Jan 01 - 07:54 PM (#378159) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Sorcha I think, in Yiddish, it means no, or a lot of times, eh? Sometimes, yes. As in "Oh yes? Really?" |
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19 Jan 01 - 08:38 PM (#378189) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Rollo I don't know about yiddish, which is no german dialect, although it uses many words originating in german language. the rest of the song is definitely not yiddish, but german. I would rather suggest the "Yes" variant. |
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20 Jan 01 - 03:37 PM (#378554) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Joe Offer Dave, which Dyer-Bennett album is this on? I thought Smithsonian-Folkways has all of the Dyer-Bennett recordings, but I couldn't find this song wehn I checked their website. OK, you native Germanspeakers, what's "wuerst"? Don't know how it's working for the rest of you, but my computer says Mudcat is not accepting umlauts at this time. -Joe Offer- |
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20 Jan 01 - 05:13 PM (#378602) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Snuffy Joe I'd go along with your earlier guess - a dialect variant of waerest. Does this work? äËïÖü Wassail! V |
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20 Jan 01 - 09:20 PM (#378747) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Uncle_DaveO Richard Dyer-Bennett #8, a 12-incher. Copyright 1959. Dave Oesterreich |
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22 Jan 01 - 04:15 AM (#379437) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Wolfgang Joe, 'wuerst' only makes sense as a typo. What is meant is 'wuerdst' a short form of 'wuerdest' (= would you)
Dave, Wolfgang |
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22 Jan 01 - 11:15 AM (#379577) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja From: Uncle_DaveO The last line is "Glaub ich ________ und heirat dich." Definitely "dich". Can't make out the middle word(s). DAve Oesterreich |