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13 Feb 01 - 11:24 AM (#397055) Subject: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Peter T. I thought that this was a place where I could rant about this, feel good among the dwindling numbers of what I assume are sympathetic souls, and maybe achieve some group solidarity. I am now constantly finding myself in places -- including upscale restaurants -- where crappy music is being piped in, and when I ask them to turn it off or down they look at me as if I had woken them up out of a trance. I was in one elegant bar the other night, and the music was from a local crappy radio station, and no one seemed to notice. If I walked in there and started spraypainting the place, they would notice -- yet the music is like mental graffiti. Orwell, in his pre-1984 days, predicted that humankind would need to have piped in music to cope with the emptiness of modern life. Boy was he right. And they have no idea. Even when they play non-crappy music, they have no idea. People are playing Beethoven's 7th symphony as background dinner music! Anyone who has the slightest musical sensitivity has to be totally distracted -- it is like someone standing up in the middle of the restaurant and beginning to read War and Peace! My musical sensitivities may not be up to some Mudcatters, but it drives me crazy! I know, I know, this has been said a million times, and I have ranted about this before here too, but I felt I had to get it out of my system again. Thank you for your time. AAAAARRRGGGGGGGHHHHHH. yours, Peter T. |
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13 Feb 01 - 11:26 AM (#397057) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: katlaughing Absolutely, Peter! What bothers me the most if the kids who have to have something on, no matter how crappy the music, just to have noise. Orwell was spot on! kat |
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13 Feb 01 - 11:48 AM (#397078) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: LR Mole Well, I seem to be able to ignore most of it. I can't abide genre fascism: there's a record store near me that ALWAYS has reggae on. Out of some interest/assumption of its merit/guilt, I try to listen and appreciate it, only to go through fading enjoyment to irritation. The same would probably happen to me with (gasp) bluegrass, which after 100 measures all sounds like deedle-deedle-deedle. Taste and choice are owned. Exploration is good.Down with eyrrany! (Did I just write a bumper sticker?) |
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13 Feb 01 - 12:01 PM (#397086) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: CarolC In the grocery stores near where I live (Shepherdstown WV, USA), they pipe in country music. It makes going to the grocery store an ordeal. I was just wondering whether or not the music in the grocery stores here in Orillia, Ontario, Canada has been bothersome to me. I realized that I can't remember hearing any music being piped into the stores here. This is a great country. Carol |
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13 Feb 01 - 12:14 PM (#397095) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Mrrzy And I thought this was going to be a computer thread! I have wallpaper on mine that talks, and a screen saver that plays the airport scene from Casablanca, and people are forever closing my door. I've had to turn the volume way way down to avoid bothering people, which is after all not the intent, I just like that movie! But back to the thread. It bothers me if they are playing music I don't like in a store. It bothers me if they are playing music I do like, and interrupt it for announcements. They can't win. Unfortunately, there are scores upon scores of data that indicate that shoppers BUY MORE if there is music than if there isn't. We do not a population make, in other words, unfortunately! |
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13 Feb 01 - 12:15 PM (#397096) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Morticia I've always wondered where they churn the wretched stuff out? My pet peeve at the moment is the music played whilst you are put on 'hold'.....twice today I got the same piece of tinkly, tuneless crapola.....from two different places.Did they bring the 'stylophone' out of retirement for this stuff? |
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13 Feb 01 - 12:18 PM (#397100) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Jande I can't agree more with you Peter! Beethoven's 7th as background music??? I coudn't even concentrate on the menu, let alone *eat* anything. I've never been able to mix my passions. ::grin:: But Lord, how I dislike that constant noise pollution. Down here in NY state they have piped-in crappy music and _advertising_ in some places where you get gas for your vehicle. Carol, I do hope Canada stays free of that sort of thing! (but I don't feel hopeful that it will) Orwell was right on so many counts that it really worries me sometimes. I guess the only thing we can do is keep making the good music and making it available for people whenever we can, eh? Draw them out into the streets if we must, heheh... ~ Jande |
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13 Feb 01 - 12:32 PM (#397109) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: LR Mole Styrophone? For light music lovers? |
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13 Feb 01 - 12:45 PM (#397119) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: catspaw49 I'm a cretin......I admit it. I couldn't tell you what any store or restaurant plays. I just don't pay attention to it. Loud bothers me because its an aggravation, even things I like. It doesn't matter what is on if it isn't getting through. Besides, White Castle doesn't have much atmosphere anyway. Truthfully, I don't play the radio in the car or much here at home and when I put on a CD or tape, I focus on it and don't do anything else. I rarely play anything around home just for background. When I wash the dishes I occasionally put on a favorite CD to sing along with, but I never do when I cook. Anything that requires the least bit of thought or creativity, I kill background music. Like I said, I'm a cretin who can't walk and chew gum at the same time. I've had the Muzak stuff tuned out so long I have no idea who uses it. The phone hold things are beginning to reach the same "tuned-out" level and I'm grateful to my pissant mind that it has made the adjustment. Spaw |
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13 Feb 01 - 12:49 PM (#397123) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Jande OOps! Forgot to put in the tag after background. sorry! But I also wanted to say that this reminds me of hothouse tomatoes. The kind you purchase in the regular gocery stores. They look like pink golf balls and taste pretty much the same, like pink golf balls. I was raised on those things. I din't like 'em much at all, but I thought they were *tomatoes*! Until, at the age of 18 someone gave me a tomato from their garden. I never looked back. :`) What I'm getting at is that people are raised to accept a certain thing as if it were real when it isn't. Music is like that. People aren't born insensitive. They are molded that way by their parents, schools, The Media, etc.
I used to think I was *strange* (well, I am, but not for being normally sensitive)
~ Jande |
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13 Feb 01 - 12:59 PM (#397131) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Shall I was at the dentist early this morning,playing in the Lobby, soft rock, not bad, Sting, Crosby, Stills and Nash. The computer screensaver in my room was playing the theme song from WVU along with new age background guitar music accompaning a lovely video of the WVU campus.At the other end of the office I could hear Nat King Cole singing Unforgettable. Glad my visit was not complicated by "The Buzz of the Drill". I left the office singing "You can't always get what you want......." |
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13 Feb 01 - 01:04 PM (#397134) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: MMario Jande - those aren't just "hothouse" tomatoes - those are "factory" tomatoes. Hothouse tomatoes can be pretty da*n good, in fact - ours were usually better in flavour and texture then our field grown tomatoes -we had better control over water, temperature and insects. 'Course we also let them ripen FULLY on the vine. very few companies producing tomatoes for market do that. |
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13 Feb 01 - 01:32 PM (#397159) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Homeless Be happy if you have only background music. My ex and I once got tickets well in advance for a ritzy wine tasting. When we got there they had music playing so loud that we could not stand next to each other across the room from a boom box and hear one another talk. Twice we asked them to turn it down, which they did - barely enough to notice the volume change. The third time we asked for our money back and left. Other places we've been we have asked to have the music turned down and someone in authority has been willing to do so. Research may show that people spend more if music is playing, but a customer saying they'll walk out if the music isn't changed has a lot of weight to those in charge. What bothers me even more than background music tho is the sudden proliferation of television sets blaring in all places - fast food joints, hospital waiting rooms, division of motor vehicles, mall rest areas, department stores. How do people keep from having sensory overload? |
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13 Feb 01 - 01:33 PM (#397160) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: kendall This is one of my most peevy pet peeves. I've tried different approaches to the management..the one that works best is: "Would you please turn that racket down while I'm here"? sometimes I add, "It is not soothing to me..it is an intolerable annoyance, and it makes me want to break things or, hurt someone." They will turn it down if you ask. Usually. I had dinner at Jeds Restaurant in Belfast last Saturday. The only one in the dining room, silence. I thought, "Great, a quiet dinner." Next thing I knew there was a loudmouth waitress going full speed, saying nothing. That was bad enough, but, the manager turned up the radio. Jazz and commercials. I complained, but, he was locked into this robotic thinking. I paid and was leaving, he asked how everything was, and, I told him, "Fine except for the muzak" I dont (like jazz) He said "Everyone has to have music." I asked "Why"? he looked at me with a blank look and I left. Where the hell do they get the right to force their lousy taste in music on me? My favorite restaurant has muzak, that screeching kind. In spite of requests to turn it down, they are too locked in, so, I take my walkman with me. I've reached the age where I will not put up with that kind of crap. Well, you said, rant |
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13 Feb 01 - 02:00 PM (#397181) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: catspaw49 Kendall, that's exactly my point and I'm glad to have heard you say it. I feel as though I am being a real cretin, but I don't want an accompaniment to everything!!!! Can we be cretins together? Spaw |
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13 Feb 01 - 02:01 PM (#397183) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Pseudolus I'm really confused. Who determines "crappy"? And are you forcing your musical tastes on someone if you play music you like, in a public place, that YOU own, where customers are free to come and go as they please? I will leave a store, restaurant, or mall if the music is too loud or truly distasteful to me but if these places would only be allowed to play music that I think isn't "crappy" then am I not forcing MY musical tastes on them? BTW, I'm not trying to start an argument with this post, just trying to understand your point of view..... Frank |
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13 Feb 01 - 02:01 PM (#397184) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: catspaw49 ...........on the other hand, I do like jazz, but like I said in my post back up there, it really doesn't matter what it is.....just turn it off. Spaw |
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13 Feb 01 - 02:02 PM (#397186) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: GUEST,Melani I live in a very noisy environment at home, so I can tune things out very easily. Every now and then, I hear something really nice being played as background music. But volume can be very important. I heard Luka Bloom on the radio, loved his guitar playing, and was very excited to have tickets to see him live. To my extreme dismay, the volume was so loud that I had to spend the whole concert with my fingers in my ears to screen out the bass, just so I could hear the melody at all. Even worse, the opening act was group called the Bedlam Rovers, who were even louder. I hated it and thought they were dreadful. A week later I was in a bookstore where they were playing a tape of really great Celtic music at normal volume. When I asked with enthusiasm what group it was, I was told, "The Bedlam Rovers." |
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13 Feb 01 - 02:20 PM (#397204) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Ebbie I've been making the point for some time that just as a couple of hundred years ago, in the days before sanitation systems, the 'elite' classes carried nosegays in the street to block out the odors, today people are trying to block out extraneous sound. I think it does have to do with overload. Soon we will all have our ears plugged into the sound we want at the same time that establishments, buses and subway systems assail the unprotected with the sounds they want. It's like going in and out of stores in a t-shirt in the middle of a blizzard. And I will never understand the need for a Walkman in the forest. Ebbie |
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13 Feb 01 - 03:03 PM (#397236) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Bardford I'm with you on this one, Peter T. At a local gas station there is a speaker right in the gas pump/console/thingy that blasts not-my-choice-of-radio-station right in the ear as I pump the gas. I asked the clerk if there was anyway I could turn it off while pumping gas. Nope. I told him I wouldn't be buying my gas there anymore. You know what he said? "Okay." That's what he said. And, hey, Carole C., this happened in Canada. Noise is everywhere. And it's mediated through wire. Bardford |
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13 Feb 01 - 03:27 PM (#397251) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Jon Freeman As a general rule, background music doesn't really bother me and I don't think that the owner of an establishment should be criticissed for playing music he/she likes. I can appreciate that background music can form part of the experience of going out for a meal, etc. but as with the food itself, if you don't like it, you are better off going elsewhere. Music in supermarkets has been mentioned and I find that slightly more worrying as I believe that music is used to some degree to control the flow of customers - you want the customers lingering and lookimg around, play something slow - you want them out because the store is going to close, play something quick... at least that's the theory. Jon
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13 Feb 01 - 03:33 PM (#397258) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Hollowfox It can be amusing, occasionally. I was having a working lunch with about half a dozen ladies, in a fairly upscale restaurant. The background music was light-weight sorta-Celtic, and nobody was paying attention to it until I said, "Who would have ever thought that people would pay this much to eat while being seranaded by bagpipes?" I agree about sensory overload, though. And I've found that if I'm lucky, I can sit under the TVs in a waiting room, or at least with my back to them, so the flickering screen doesn't distract me from my reading, or whatever else I'd rather have in my brain. |
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13 Feb 01 - 03:36 PM (#397261) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: kendall Let me try to explain.. I would be glad to avoid places that play annoying muzak. Problem is, they play the same shit EVERYWHERE! You cant get clear of it. I dont care who owns the store, if he wants my business, he had better be willing to at least compromise. (Turn it down, if not off). I would never play my music in public, and I really resent those who do. I must shop for groceries, but, every store has the same thing in muzak, it reminds me of that Hollering Contest in, I think, Tennessee. My motto: If you cant improve on silence, shut up. |
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13 Feb 01 - 03:40 PM (#397264) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Peter T. Oh, I forgot that problem. That is even worse: whoever thought about having TVs on in airports all the time should be hung. This is to give everyone entertainment, and prevent them thinking about air crashes -- but what if you want to read, or pray, or think about something other than air crashes. I THINK THIS HAS NOW BECOME A CLASS THING. If you go into First Class lounges, you get silence. The plebs are presumed to be restless and in need of doping. Don't even get me started on radio in intercity buses. The one place you used to get quiet, and time to think. yours, Peter T. |
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13 Feb 01 - 03:41 PM (#397268) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Clinton Hammond i was wandering though the grocery store on day not too long ago when the urge to sing "Really don'tmind if you sit this one out, Your words but a whisper, my deafness a shout" came over me in front of the meat counter... The wife returned from the veggie section to me singing "And your wise men don't know how it fee-e-e-e-e-els... To be thick as a brick" "What brought that on", she asked... "I donno", I said... and I didn't until I listend and heard on the piped in music, the orcestral version from "A Classic Case"... they played nearly the whole CD and I've never had so much fun shopping fer groceries... I like background music... even if it's not something I'd listen to regularily... Hell, that's how I prefer my Beethoven... WAAAAAAAY in teh background!! ;-) |
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13 Feb 01 - 03:49 PM (#397277) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Jimmy C I worked for a while in a hardware store, in Ontario. They had muzak all day long, even in the mornings before the customers would come in we had to listen to the same stuff for a whole week before they changed it. After a while I just tuned out. What bothers me about some people who listen to music is that they don't really know what they are listening to. The following is a true example of what I mean. We were driving into Toronto one day with my son and one of his pals. A certain song came on the radio, his friend exclaimed " Oh I love this one ". I couldn't understand the lyrics so I asked them what the song was about " Oh I don't know" was the answer ?. go figure. |
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13 Feb 01 - 03:49 PM (#397278) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: kendall Spaw, I would be honored to have you as a cretin associate. Major Winchester on M.A.S.H. referred to Hawkeye and B.J. as "Cretinous yahoos" I think I'd like to be one of those. |
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13 Feb 01 - 03:51 PM (#397280) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: wdyat12 Peter, Ever visit a shipyard where every welder, shipfitter, and burner has a differnt radio station on and the sound of welding, gouging, and banging on steel is permeated with everbody's taste in music at maximum volume? I'll take the soft obnoxious elevator music, thank you. Peter |
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13 Feb 01 - 03:51 PM (#397282) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: grumpy al I agree entirely with Peter T and all the others who hate, loath, and detest musical wallpaper. However I would like to add a question to the rant, why is it that modern society (as a generalism) is so afraid of peace and quiet??? |
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13 Feb 01 - 04:04 PM (#397292) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Pseudolus Kendall, "they play the same shit everywhere"? I've heard several types of music mentioned here as distasteful so I assume to be considered NOT the same shit, it must be something you like. Now it seems like I'm hearing, "If you're gonna play stuff I don't like, play it low or don't play it at all". Do you know for sure no one is enjoying it?
Jimmy C,
Peter T, It has become a class thing?????? Are you now saying that if someone watches TV in an airport they are lower class??? Seems a little harsh to me. I don't mean to push the issue since I'm not exactly fond of everything I hear in stores, malls, and restaurants but I also don't feel like I'm being intruded upon and I certainly don't feel outclassed by the folks who hate it. Truly, I'm trying to understand and I fear I'm now sounding argumentative. I also think we're heading down the old "agree to disagree" highway.... Still trying.... Frank |
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13 Feb 01 - 04:06 PM (#397294) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Big Mick I guess it depends on why I am in the place. If I am in a very nice restaraunt with friends, I don't want a lot of bullshit to contend with what I hope will be enjoyable conversation........engaging banter.......rousing discussion............or just plain communing with a kindred spirit. And I will choose the type of place that allows that. It occurs to me that some folks wouldn't like my musical style........and that means they shouldn't come to the pub where I am playing. All of this is not to say that I don't agree with Peter. It is a sign of our times, and not a very good one, that one cannot escape the feckin' madness. I have to listen to it in cabs, on buses, in every public place. It is so bad that when I am out fishing on the lake I live in which is located in a supposed State Game area, I have to listen to it from the radio's on the boats and snowmobiles. I am sitting on the ice a few weeks ago, it is 12 degrees out, I am on a huge lake in the middle of the woods and I hear the sound of a snowmobile in the distance. And I hear the bass speakers...........sure as hell a kid on a snowmobile, towing a sled with huge bass speakers like they put in the cars these days goes by. Drives me nuts...........The end is near.......repent. All the best, Mick |
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13 Feb 01 - 04:10 PM (#397298) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: CarolC I'm sure you're right, Bardford.
However, if my memory is correct and there wasn't any muzak in the grocery stores I've visited here in Orillia, that would make this the first time in my entire life that I've been in grocery stores that didn't have muzak. |
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13 Feb 01 - 04:26 PM (#397307) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Jim Krause Mind you I am a pretty peaceful sort of guy. But one evening I had had just about all I could take. After the gig, the band and a few of our pals, wives, and husbands went out to our favorite watering hole. We sat, trying to have a conversation, when I turned to one of the guys nearest me, and said "This is the only time I seriously consider changing my position on Conceal Carry law." I said as I pointed to the speaker mounted on a ceiling beam which was blaring out really bad, head-bangin' stuff. BTW for those who don't know, Conceal/Carry is local slang for carrying a concealed sidearm on one's person. Jim |
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13 Feb 01 - 04:52 PM (#397337) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: RichM Alright, there must be some way to sabotage these annoying public earworms...maybe some kind of glue sprayed in the speakers? Would crazy glue work?
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13 Feb 01 - 05:05 PM (#397362) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Bert The answer is to sing louder than the music being played. Something like "When you pickle glows at night" By Amos should do it. |
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13 Feb 01 - 05:09 PM (#397365) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: katlaughing I felt physically ill this past Christmas season when we had to go to Wally World. Normally we avoid it like the plague, but they had moving bins on sale and we were moving, so...anyway, they had on some woman screeching at the top of her lungs and I just looked at Rog, told him I had to get out of there and we did. I really felt it physically! Peter, I forgot to mention an article I read yesterday. Industry is working on packaging which will talk to us, or sing to us when we shop! That's right, that little bottle of whatever, when it senses you are near, might strike up it's well-known jingle or start relating the merits of buying that product! THIS SHOULD BE STOPPED IN ITS TRACKS! Whatever happened to Silence is Golden? |
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13 Feb 01 - 05:14 PM (#397373) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Bill D many years ago, a Pizza Hut in my home town had a juke box with one blank track..for 5› you could buy 3 minutes of silence...they made a fortune! I carry a tape of bagpipe music in my van...just for those occasions when I am in traffic beside some cretin with bass speakers blaring rock or, worse...RAP!.....a good pipe melody will penetrate..and sort of make a point... |
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13 Feb 01 - 05:21 PM (#397378) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: katlaughing Here's that article: "What if the next time you walked into a music store, a compact disc sang to you? Or you reached for some beauty cream at the department store and the package began to glow, enticing you with a tiny video invitation to rediscover lost youth? Wouldn't you at least stop and think about buying those products? International Paper Co. is betting you would. The Purchase, N.Y.-based company has signed a licensing deal with an Israeli firm, Power Paper Ltd., that soon could bring light, sound and other special effects to the packages of some consumer products. The key is new ultra-thin flexible batteries that can be "printed" on packages like ink. Both companies expect the disposable batteries to help product manufacturers use packaging more effectively to entice consumers. "The No. 1 reason (for using the batteries in packaging) would be the marketing advantage that would allow you to reach consumers one more time with an advertising or marketing or promotional message," said Jenny Boardman, an IP spokeswoman. The batteries might potentially be used in CD packages wired to play song samples when a customer picks them up, or to enliven game cards handed out at fast food restaurants. Packages powered by the new batteries could show up on store shelves by late summer. Boardman says International Paper is running trials, but has not yet signed deals with any customers. Power Paper says it is readying to start Hong Kong-based production later this year. Neither company would comment on the terms of their agreement. While the new battery will be used first in novelty items, the idea is rooted in practicality. It began taking shape seven years ago when Power Paper cofounder Baruch Levanon was hired by a medical supply company to help develop a stick-on device to deliver insulin through the skin of diabetics. The challenge was to find a power source strong enough to push large insulin molecules into the skin, yet small enough to wear comfortably. That half-inch-thick miniature battery will soon be on the market, said Levanon, though he wouldn't provide further details. But Levanon and his partners didn't stop there. They kept working on their own, developing a battery only about half a millimeter thick composed of five layers of zinc and manganese dioxide. The material can be printed on an ordinary press, and is safe for disposal, said Levanon, whose privately held company and is based at Kibbutz Einat in suburban Tel Aviv. International Paper, whose packaging business accounts for 27 percent of industry sales, has tried to add zip to product boxes by adding holograms, embossing or die-cutting packages so that they're not always square. The creation of e-packaging, complete with light and sound, continues that evolution, Boardman said. The newfangled containers are part of a broad trend known as "smart packaging", using technology to allow products to communicate with manufacturers, retailers and consumers, industry consultant Mark Niemiec says. Companies already use packages equipped with small devices to sound an alarm if an item is being stolen. In the future, such devices could be widely used to track movement of products or allow a home refrigerator to detect and respond to items placed inside, he says. While innovations like e-packages will be costly at first, he says the expense will decline over time and could make sense to consumer products companies who spend big on marketing. "We are clearly at the doorstep of this new interactive type of smart packaging, and I think in the next decade we're going to see tremendous developments in this area," said Niemiec of Global Packaging Innovations in Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla. The new thin battery also fits into an industry trend, with manufacturers continuously miniaturizing products and looking for ever smaller power sources that fit inside, said Tom Chesworth, president of Seven Mountains Scientific Inc., the Boalsburg, Pa.-based publisher of Advanced Battery Technology magazine. Chesworth says the new battery is the first flexible power source he's seen, but that it's not clear yet how useful it will be: "When I saw it, it was a solution looking for a problem and it may still be." But Levanon said there are myriad uses for his company's batteries. Eventually, he says, it could be used to power smart tags on products, allowing companies to track individual items as they are shipped, and when they reach the store shelf. It might also be used for disposal products for medical diagnosis. "Once you have a power source ... that is thin and flexible, then it opens a whole range of microelectronics uses," Levanon says. Such utility will come at a price. Equipping packaging with a battery and the microelectronics for simple audiovisual effects will add 20 cents to $1 to the cost of each item, Levanon says. That is substantially more than most packaging costs, but perhaps reasonable if seen as part of a company's marketing budget, he suggests. © Copyright 2001 The Associated Press |
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13 Feb 01 - 05:21 PM (#397379) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: mousethief There is a semi-famous story of a client of Carl G. Jung, the famous psychiatrist. He told this man that his "homework" between sessions on the couch was to go home and be alone, by himself, for an hour (each night). The man came back to his next appointment, and Dr. Jung asked him how it went. "Just fine," the man said. "At first I played the piano, then when I got bored of that, I read a book, and then I wrote some in my diary." "No no, you don't understand," said Dr. Jung. "I want you to be alone. Doing nothing. Just being." The man's face became a picture of horror. "I couldn't do that!" he said. "And yet," said Dr. Jung, "this presence which you can't bear for one hour, you inflict on hundreds of people all week long!" Alex |
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13 Feb 01 - 05:22 PM (#397380) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: wdyat12 Hey Folks! Speaking of Muzak, check out the yellow "Handy" thread for a minute. Don't get lost in there though. wdyat12 |
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13 Feb 01 - 05:24 PM (#397384) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: GUEST,bflat I had been the owner of a small store in a hamlet, which I sold recently. For many years, I tuned the radio into folk music, bluegrass and old country tunes or selected a tape or CD from my collection, when I wasn't playing my guitar in the store. If it were the radio, it never failed but a customer wanted to know the station name and number so that they could tune their car radio to the same. Some folks would begin a discussion about the music and often it was most pleasant and entertaining. People would comment about the unique and "best" music that I would have on and that they looked forward to what was playing when they came to shop. I never once had a request to change the music or to stop playing the guitar. Lucky I guess. bflat |
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13 Feb 01 - 05:30 PM (#397390) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: blt It's impressive to me how very sensitive folks are to music--I agree that muzak is annoying and really loud muzak really annoying, but in general it doesn't bother me too much. I kind of get an existential kick out of seeing what sort of music is being played at the grocery store--when I go into the up-scale "natural foods" store in my neighborhood, the music playing is apt to be an eclectic but always self-consciously tasteful mix: Enya followed by tejano followed by Dave Brubeck. Starbucks drove me a little nuts this winter when they began playing Christmas music the day after Halloween (I know, that's what I get for going into Starbucks)--it was all 50s and 60s stuff. I have asked to have the music turned down in restaurants when it was so loud it was oppressive, and sometimes it was actually turned down. Recently, I ate at a restaurant where the person waiting on me was deaf and I realized afterward that perhaps she had the music up loud because then she could feel the bass--it was the middle of the afternoon and I was the only person in the place. However, I would like to suggest that as a group, musicians and afficianados are more attuned, as it were, to how music affects them--it's both a blessing and a curse, I think, to be so exquisitely wired that any sound registers as either pleasure or pain. Just realize that not everybody is wired this way--incredible as it may seem, not everybody experiences music as an event or as something existing in space, as significant (hence the blank looks when one requests the sound to be lowered--the blank individual may think such a request is crazy because if the music were turned down no one would "hear" it). Oliver Sachs (of Awakenings fame) describes the sensitivity that music lovers have as being able to perceive musical notes in the same way that others remember faces--the notes have color, shape, personalities. blt |
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13 Feb 01 - 06:06 PM (#397413) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: sophocleese There is a bar near here where my father and I go once a week together to have beer and a chat. It plays background music and on a couple of occasions it has been too loud. However each time before we had a chance to ask the waitress to turn it down somebody else had already done so. My dad and I do keep apologizing though as our eyes flicker to the televisions hanging above the bar. The grocery store that I go to plays music in the background but I only really notice when I have a different tune in my head which the muzak interferes with. I get strange looks from people when I walk along the street or an aisle singing to myself but I figure if they're going to put canned stuff on in the stores I can sing if I feel like it. |
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13 Feb 01 - 06:20 PM (#397425) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: wdyat12 I do my grocery shopping after hours on my way home from work. I put up with isles closed off for floor waxing and pallets of boxed merchandise waiting to be shelved that always seem to be in my way. However, I never hear Muzak when I'm shopping because the shelvers pipe different FM stations through the PA system. The music depends on who's turn it is that night to control the station selection. I have shopped at night in this store for years and I rarely ever hear something really awful. wdyat12 |
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13 Feb 01 - 06:24 PM (#397429) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Bill D about 'that' article kat posted....I can just And ...*grin*...if those batteries really work, maybe that 'implant' for remote controlled "O"s wont be needed...just print a battery and ripple effect right on undies! ZAP!....(who says old curmudgeons have no imagination!?) |
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13 Feb 01 - 06:29 PM (#397434) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Jande MMario... Yum! Too bad you seem to be speaking in the past tense. ::sigh:: I think I would kill for nice juicy vine-ripened tomato right now --as long as I wasn't forced to listen to somebody else's idea of good music while I was trying to eat it! ;`) ~ Jande, (eyeing the side-yard to measure for a greenhouse) |
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13 Feb 01 - 06:33 PM (#397438) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Morticia I find that in grocery shops I sing according to what I'm looking at rather than what's playing.....people at the fish counter are "treated" to 'Shoals of Herring', the cheese display often gets a minute or two of "Oh, the Hard Cheese of Old England" etc.Good God.....I'm a walking wallpaper supplier!! |
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13 Feb 01 - 06:48 PM (#397446) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: menzze I laid a wooden floor this afternoon and the lady had the TV running and the radio, we were talking and my machines were running too,her two dogs were barking and her two parrots squiecing and hustling and laughing and... She said she needs some life around her, some action all the time. She couldn't stand quietness. Her age: about 60. I nearly couldn't stand this hellish melting pot of noises. And she loved it. People are different(some are too different for me) |
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13 Feb 01 - 06:51 PM (#397449) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Homeless A couple have asked why this seems so prevalent in modern society. My personal theory is that it is because people don't know how to think or are afraid to think. Schools don't teach children how to think, they teach them to follow authority, believe everything they are told, and let the media dictate their opinions. They are raising a generation of sheeple - people who behave like sheep.
At the risk of tainting yet another thread with pop music, I am going to quote a line from an Alanis Morrisette song I think that the first and last lines of this pretty much sum up the situation. When was the last time that you heard a group of mainstream youths discussing some type of intellectual subject - theology, philosophy, even politics? My sister keeps a television set running literally from the time she gets out of bed until she turns in for the night. To keep her company, she says. The corollary to this is the so many 'Catters who find the muzak distasteful. From the threads I've read I would surmise that the average 'Catter, or maybe even Folkie, doesn't fit into the mold of sheeple. We do like to think for ourselves and don't like having unnecessary distractions forced onto us. Personally, I find disturbing that so many people are willing and even eager to give up their brain waves to even subconciously process this noise. I like to keep my full facilities to myself, thank you. My opinion, for what it's worth. |
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13 Feb 01 - 08:31 PM (#397499) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: hesperis Yeah. CarolC - Unfortunately, Superfresh plays background music. But at least it's not country. :shudder: Which store did you go to? Jande - What?! My music makes you cringe? Or did you mean trying to eat at the same time as my music... *g* |
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13 Feb 01 - 08:32 PM (#397500) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: wdyat12 Morticia, I think I'm going to try that. When I go to the fruit display I'll sing "Yes We Have No Bananas," and when I go to the to the cereal section I'll sing "....waving fields of grain," and when I go to the meat counter I'll sing "This Little Piggy Went to Market." This might work. wdyat12 |
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13 Feb 01 - 09:00 PM (#397508) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: rube1 yeah, well, what I can't stand are those antiquated folksongs with a fi-do diddle diddle dum de roll a diddle choruses. Somebody please stop doing those songs. |
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13 Feb 01 - 09:06 PM (#397512) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Jande Hesp~ You deserve a good *thwap* fer that! You know I loooove your music! Especially that Night Garden one. :`) Yeah, just can't eat when you play. the only thing I can do to good music (and to make this very clear: like *yours*) is dance or paint pictures. ::grin:: ~ Jande |
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13 Feb 01 - 09:08 PM (#397514) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Ebbie I suspect that if those interactive products reach my store my elbows will become unaccountably akimbo. If enough of us have accidents that cause extra work for the establishment they might rethink the novelty. Ebbie |
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13 Feb 01 - 09:10 PM (#397516) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Bugsy The Muzak in supermarkets is "actually designed" to get you to either "dally" or "move along" depending on the tempo of the music. When the shop is almost empty, the muzak is usually soft and slow, when it's busy, the tempo is faster. Check it out, it's amazing how it works. When I was in the record business, one of my pet hates was to walk into a record store that was playing the local top 40 fm radio through the system. My arguement to them was always "You don't have to play that stuff, people will just ask for it anyway. Play something from your stock that has been sitting there for a while." Usually fell on deaf ears. CHeers Bugsy |
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13 Feb 01 - 09:23 PM (#397524) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Little Hawk I find the constant presence of piped in music exceedingly annoying. It's everywhere. In restaurants, gas stations, malls, stores, on the street outside the f**king stores...everywhere! And you know what? It's the death of the live musician. People quickly become jaded when they can have any kind of music they want (or in my case, don't want) at the push of a button. Who really needs a minstrel any longer in this deluded, rat race society? Who will pay said minstrel a decent living for his talent. Nobody, unless the media have made said minstrel into a huge star through a relentless marketing campaign. The whole thing is sick, and it is very Orwellian. I try to avoid the muzak every way I can, but it's not easy. Has anyone noticed, all around us, the death of subtlety in this society? Everything is loud, blatant, and overdone. It's been Whitney-Houston-ized. AAARGGGH! Read Dylan's liner notes on the album "World Gone Wrong". He alludes to the decay that has occurred in people's musical and cultural sensibilities and to the values that have been lost. "I've seen thousands who could have overcome the darkness. For the love of a lousy buck I watched them die." (quote from "When The Night Comes Falling From The Sky" on Empire Burlesque) I sometimes feel that I am living in the 2nd decline and fall of the Roman Empire...one sickening step at a time. - LH |
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13 Feb 01 - 09:33 PM (#397530) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: R! First the confession: my old china and I have been known to dance in the supermarket when a waltz comes over the PA system. A little dance breaks up the monotony of food shopping. I'm usually not happy with the music choices in shops and public places but I can overlook it if the volume is low. The other day I stopped at a pay phone outside a supermarket to call someone for directions. The music was so loud I could barely hear the other party. Coupled with people sitting in their cars, engines idling and radios blasting, it was pure auditory hell.
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13 Feb 01 - 09:33 PM (#397531) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: wdyat12 Little Hawk. We Are in the second decline. Deal with it. wdyat12 |
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13 Feb 01 - 09:35 PM (#397532) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Justa Picker LH....I recommend another screening of Terry Gilliam's Brazil. If you've not seen it for a while, it'll once again make your day. If you've never seen it RENT IT TOMORROW. |
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13 Feb 01 - 10:12 PM (#397555) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: kendall I consider having all that crappy air head muzak thrown at me to be be akin to rape. And, I would not classify all folk music as diddly o day, or whatever. The problem with folk music, is that it takes more than a spoonful of brains to understand it. Any moron can understand the shit they play in stores.The lyrics make no sense, and it is little more than screeching on key. MUZAK IS TO MUSIC WHAT ETCH-A-SKETCH IS TO ART. |
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13 Feb 01 - 10:21 PM (#397557) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: CarolC hesperis, I've been thinking about it a lot today. I couldn't swear there wasn't muzak in the stores I've been in. But if it was there, it must have been pretty inoffensive, because I just can't remember it. I always remember when they play muzak I don't like. I also can't remember the names of the stores. One of them was the hoity-toity store that sells the President's Choice stuff and has an organic section. I don't think either one of them was a superfresh, but considering the CRS I seem to be suffering from today, who can say? Carol |
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13 Feb 01 - 10:34 PM (#397568) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: hesperis Thanks for the clarification, Jande! LOL! (I know you like my moosic... The joke was just there!) Carol - Hmmmm, could have been Zehrs or A&P Superfresh... Both are pretty hoity-toity. I don't know if Zehrs has an organic section though... Superfresh is the one by Rombos, just so you know. (Of course, there's another A&P on west st, though...) They all have some sort of music, some of it is tolerable, though. What happened to silence? What is wrong with silence? *sigh* |
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13 Feb 01 - 10:38 PM (#397572) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: CarolC One of them was Zehrs. That's the one with the organic section. What kind of music do they play there? They must play it pretty softly, or I've been more oblivious than I thought. This is getting scarey... |
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13 Feb 01 - 10:49 PM (#397582) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Pseudolus akin to rape? I give up..... Frank |
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13 Feb 01 - 11:00 PM (#397590) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: wdyat12 Hey Folks! What about the muzak they play this time of year at ice skating rinks? Straus Waltzes, Woo Tang Clan, the theme from Leave it to Beaver, and AC/DC, we've come a long way in the 21st century don't you think? wdyat12 |
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13 Feb 01 - 11:38 PM (#397630) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Matt_R I LOVE music wallpaper. If it wasn't for musical wallpaper, I wouldn't know half the music I do. |
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14 Feb 01 - 08:14 AM (#397784) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: CarolC Ok, I talked to flattop. He doesn't remember any music either. In fact he's pretty convinced that there wasn't any. So either there wasn't any music, or we've both got a serious memory problem. (Yikes) |
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14 Feb 01 - 08:33 AM (#397795) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: kendall Frank, I liken it to rape because it is forced on me without my consent, and, I dont want it! What could be simpler? Before anyone gets a knot in their knickers, I am NOT saying it is the same as actual rape. The physical kind is so much more horrible, only the concept is similar. |
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14 Feb 01 - 08:43 AM (#397802) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: GUEST,Matt_R You guys..geez..it's just music! |
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14 Feb 01 - 08:54 AM (#397807) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Pseudolus I agree Matt and since I said (in another thread) that the only threads that bother me are the ones where people are bickering, I should stop. I knew what Kendall meant when he said "akin to rape" but I bickered anyway.....not sure why. I have the utmost respect for the opinions of the likes of Kendall, Peter T, and all the other posters in this thread and usually I get to the "agree to disagree" stage a lot sooner than this. The ironic thing is that there is a lot of background music that truly bothers me and I wonder why the owner(s) made that choice. I was sorta looking at this from a different angle..... c'est la vie... Frank
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14 Feb 01 - 08:55 AM (#397808) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Peter T. No, it is a simulacrum of music. yours, Peter T. |
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14 Feb 01 - 09:00 AM (#397810) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Homeless That's the point Matt - it's not "just music." How would you feel if someone were continually to blow cigarette smoke directly in your face, or doused you in ice water, or poured vinegar on all your food? The "music" is a sensory assault. Why should the sense of hearing be any less important than any of the others? It takes your energy to deal with it, and it affects your moods. And the various styles of "music" are not seen the same by everyone. What one person might find enjoyable can grate on someone elses nerves unbearably. One of the guys I work with really enjoys jazz drumming. He has played CDs of multiple drummers playing different rhythms at the same time. He really enjoyed it, but I found it so chaotic that I couldn't concentrate on the work I was trying to do. |
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14 Feb 01 - 10:19 AM (#397848) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Kim C Rowana, I too have been known to dance in the supermarket. It's a harmless little guilty pleasure. At least in my local supers they don't play Moondance, and it's a good thing, because I can't do anything to that song but take off my clothes. (gulp did I just say that?) ;) |
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14 Feb 01 - 10:27 AM (#397854) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Pseudolus I know I shouldn't do this but I am still so confused. I'm looking to be educated here. Here goes.....Let's say I own a business, I've decided that in my establishment I will pump in some music, and for whatever reason, I've chosen muzak. It may be because I've heard studies about the effect it has on customer's buying habits or God forbid it's because I just like it. Now, someone walks in and doesn't like it. I am not tying them down to a chair forcing them to listen or forcing them to stay for any length of time. Can't they just leave? Can't they find another place more conducive to their tastes? By telling me that I am wrong for having THAT kind of music aren't you forcing YOUR musical preferences on me? And why is that fair for you and not for me? I don't have a business and if I did I wouldn't choose muzak but those who do are not persecuting me. There is no comparison (imho) with the smoke in the face, ice water spilled, and vinegar on the food to this issue because with the music, you can just leave. With the others it was a specific attack on one individual and after I leave, I would still have ice water all over me. I can fully understand why you don't like a certain kind of music but I don't understand why you consider it an attack. Is a Pub that hires folk musicians as weekend entertainment "forcing" folk down everyone's throat? Or is that just a way of molding the personality of the establishment. If someone doesn't like folk music, they would go somewhere else where there is another type of entertainment or even none at all. It's a very similar thing.... Frank |
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14 Feb 01 - 10:30 AM (#397856) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: GUEST,Matt_R I think us younger people have a lessened sensibility to what we like and don't like. I think it's easier for a younger person to like your kind of music than you to like ours. It's just a generational thing. Probably my grandchildren will be interest even more in all kinds of music. |
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14 Feb 01 - 10:38 AM (#397861) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Bardford There's issues of choice here. Sure, I may choose not to patronize your establishment for many reasons, including the background music, but odds are the establishment next door that I walk into is piping in similar stuff. Even outdoors, there is little escape from audiojunk. Do my ears have property rights? Bardford |
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14 Feb 01 - 10:48 AM (#397867) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: GUEST,Matt_R Would you rather be deaf? My sister is a sign language minor, so I've spent a LOT of time with hard-of-hearing people. People who have never heard music and have to settle for mere floor and speaker vibrations. People who are advantageously deaf who can suddenly hear music no longer. Imagine a world without music at all...maybe then you'll think twice about your belly-aching about music that isn't your style. Get over it. There are more important things in this world to get upset about that are worth your time. |
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14 Feb 01 - 10:49 AM (#397868) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Pseudolus I understand that Bardford but I guess my question is, What is the solution to the problem as you see it? And doesn't the solution have to consider the right of music selection for the owners? Frank |
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14 Feb 01 - 11:00 AM (#397874) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: GUEST,Matt_R Oh yes kendall, that's what we ALL want, music that take brains to understand. "Any moron can understand the shit they play in stores." Music that anyone can understand? God forbid, we wouldn't want THAT, now WOULD we? How horrifying!!!! It might become FOLK! Kendall, I hope they play Amazing Graze on 10,000 bagpipes and a fuzz bass with krumhorn orchestra at your funeral. To celebrate one less musical bigot in the world. And I'm sure there are lots of traditional music performers from other parts of the world that would consider your damn nasal whiney repetitive sea chanteys "screeching" as well. |
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14 Feb 01 - 11:14 AM (#397881) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Homeless Pseudolus - I think I see one of the miscommunications here. My general bitch is not that one particular establishment has music, but that they *all* do. If it were only one establishment that was playing the music, yes, it could be avoided easily. But as many people on this thread have said, music is present everywhere. I cannot remember the last time I went to a restaurant that did not have any music whatsoever. So I do exercise my option not to eat out anymore. But, I do have to buy groceries. And every grocery store in the area has some kind of music also. Strip malls pipe the music to loudspeakers outside the stores, so I'm forced to hear it while I walk to/from the car. A month or so back I was walk to the county building downtown and there was music being played over loudspeakers - and there weren't even any stores in the area. Every department store has it. If I accompany someone to a place, chances we are going to want to talk. If we cannot talk in normal conversational tones because of a TV/sound system, that is an assault. If the sound system is so loud that I want to plug my ears, that is a physical assault. The fallacy in my comparison with the smoke, water, vinegar was that I was trying to personalize it for Matt. To revamp it, suppose that every public place did one or more of those things. Re: you comment on still having ice water on you - an attach is not defined by how long it's effects last, but that it was committed to begin with. And there have been many time I have left somewhere and had a ringing in my ears, or a bit of tune or lyrics running thru my head. I say that it is an attack because it is an intentional, unnecessary sensory stimulus. It is a way to distracting people so that their full mental facilities are unavailable. Depending on what type of music is played, it can alter peoples moods or actions (see above posts regarding moving people the store or getting them to linger). If the music being played is distasteful to a person, it can alter their mood in a negative way - making them uncomfortable, irritable, or angry. And I don't suggest that an establishment change their music to suit my musical preferences. But it would be nice if there was no music whatsoever - then there wouldn't be disagreement as which patrons like what genre of music.
What is the sound of one hand clapping? |
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14 Feb 01 - 11:26 AM (#397884) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Homeless What is the solution to the problem as you see it? Preferably, don't pipe music into public places, or, minimally, turn it down/off if so requested. If someone wants to add music to a situation they can always use a personal stereo and headphones. Unfortunately, there's not yet a personal system that will provide silence.
And doesn't the solution have to consider the right of music selection for the owners? |
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14 Feb 01 - 11:45 AM (#397894) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Pseudolus Homeless: Just to be sure I am clear, I agree with almost everything you said, It IS annoying that you can't get away from it if you want to. Where we part ways is when we talk about things like "intentional, unnecessary sensory stimulus". I understand and appreciate that that's your opinion....but it is not universal. I've heard folks talk about how they dance in the grocery store, or they tune it out, or that it doesn't bother them at all. If I have a business, and for pennies I can pump in music that studies shows will help my business, I would do it in a heartbeat and I would consider it a necessary sesory stimulus for my business. I guess the thing that gets to me is the overall feeling here that if somethng bothers me a little, I will just avoid it, if it bothers me a lot, THEY'LL have to change. That's my perception anyway.....I'll give you an example. There are a lot of TV commercials that I think are in poor taste or just stupid. I try to ignore them. Lately the United Way has been running a commercial that has a child calling 911 crying that, "Daddy is hurting my Mommy!!!" It ends with the announcer saying, "Go ahead, do nothing...." or something along those lines. Clearly the implication is that this kid will have to see his Mommy beaten unless I pledge money to the United Way, or if not that exactly, it is all about guilt. I hate that commercial. I've contributed to other funds that exist for battered women and children but I still felt guilty. I wish the commercial will go off the air and that they'll stop. But i do feel that they have every right to run it. For me, until they stop, I simply won't give to the United Way. And finally, Don'tcha think, "no music" IS a musical preference?
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14 Feb 01 - 11:49 AM (#397897) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Lepus Rex Heh, I bet Bad Elevator Music came to your town, Matt, and it was really cool, because no other Elevator Music had ever bothered to visit your town and talk to you kids, right? Billy Ray Cyrus was opening, wasn't he? Seriously, I hate the stuff. For some reason, I can't tune out noise. Bad music in a store actually makes me buy LESS, I think, because it's so damned distracting. People do notice when you play something 'strange' or 'different' though. At my work (a small, family-owned shop), no customer has ever asked about the cheesy pop-rock my co-workers listen to. It's just there. But when my cds are on, there's always a comment, usually something positive. Even if they hate it, at least they HEAR it. |
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14 Feb 01 - 11:49 AM (#397898) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Bill D ....there IS background music that is 'almost' unnoticable, I have learned to tune it out. By definition, it is seldom music with any character, but sometimes it does enhance a mood for the time of day...etc...this is ususally used by bigger stores and is professionally done Musak. On the other hand, 'personal' choices by small business owners, played on boomboxes set on a shelf, can range all over the map!....and they can please 90%..or 2%! I suppose a business owner can play whatever he wants, but if he plays loud rock or rap...or even Classical Bagpipes, it going to distract me and many others, and may be a bad idea, no matter WHAT his 'rights' are. I live in a large metropolitan area, and can usually find a place that does not offend...what if my only choice of pharmacies in a small town is run by a guy with a taste for Tuvan throat singing?...yeah, I know, I don't have to be there long, so live with it. Hell of a solution.. Matt....seems to me that there is a real issue as to WHY 'young people' keep pushing the envelope for louder, more intense music that is often violent and 'in your face'.... I am just sort of tired of a world that is moving away from trying to consider the feeling of others, and moving TOWARD "you don't like it? Tough shit!"
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14 Feb 01 - 11:52 AM (#397902) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Pseudolus When I suggested that the owner has rights, I meant he/she has the rights to form an opinion of what the clientelle wants and go with that decision. I didn't mean to imply that he/she made the decision on an island. Frank |
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14 Feb 01 - 12:02 PM (#397911) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: GUEST,Matt_R Because "you don't like it? Tough shit!" is the only way to go. Any amount of explanation wouldn't convince you, so what's left. Folkies can say:
"I'm a rambler I'm a gambler or "You can't keep me from singing" But US, noooo we're not allowed to have our own opinions. And I don't know why us young shitheads like the intense, loud, violent, in-your-face music. Go ask Stravinsky, or Beethoven, or Liszt. They might know.
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14 Feb 01 - 12:55 PM (#397954) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Kim C Let me see if I can say this where it makes sense. When I go to a public place WITHOUT the express intent of hearing music, like the grocery or Target or the mall, I have other things on my mind and 99 times out of 100 don't pay a lick of attention to what's on the speakers. I go to those places to run errands or do other business and music doesn't really figure into it. Around here several places just play local radio stations. I suppose if I happened into some place that played particularly obnoxious music, it might influence my decision to go back or not, but in my sphere that has never been an issue. Y'all would have loved what they were playing in the tattoo salon the last time I was there. I don't even know what it was. It could only be described as train wreck music. There was a little ZZ Top in there, but I didn't recognize anything else. One of those bands didn't even sound like they were speaking English but they were. BUT I knew it was going to be like that when I went in there, so I didn't fret it. I'm sure if I had asked them to throw something else into the mix they would have done it for me - but when your butt's on fire, well, you don't think about that stuff. ;) |
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14 Feb 01 - 05:20 PM (#398116) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: kendall Matt, you just dont get it. The kind of crap I refer to is not music. It is an annoyance at least, and cause for assault at worst. I have walked out of many a store because of it, and, the fact is they need me more than I need them.So, I say "Tough shit for them". When I ask them to turn it down, sometimes they say "I dont even hear it." I reply "Then why the hell do you have it"? As far as younger people go, they dont know what it is like to have been brought up with manners and respect for other people.In your case, you probably learned manners from your military dad, and, that shitty noise is more of a protest. I guess it is all part of the "Dumbing down of America". I still say, Muzak is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art. If you want to listen to that primitive racket, go ahead. just dont get in my face with it. |
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14 Feb 01 - 08:51 PM (#398227) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: kendall Well well, the kid has a temper tantrum. I'm afraid the joke's on you Matt. I love the pipes, and, would be glad to have them skirling at my funeral. Fortunately, I wont be able to hear them, or, any more of that shit you call music. This site is dedicated to blues and folk. Wouldn't you be happier playing with kids your own age? |
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14 Feb 01 - 09:13 PM (#398238) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: CarolC Hey kendall, do you have any kids? I have a son who is seventeen. I have a very high opinion of him. His tastes in music are broad, but they do include some forms of music that I don't like. And sometimes he makes some ettiquette blunders. He's human and he's still learning. But I would never talk to him the way you talk to Matt. My son is Mudcatter, "indieman". I'm glad he's a Mudcat member. I think he can learn from the old farts if he wants to. I also think the old farts can learn from him if they want to. Best wishes, Carol |
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14 Feb 01 - 09:20 PM (#398239) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Bill D "Because "you don't like it? Tough shit!" is the only way to go. " ...wow...I wish I was likely to live to be 100, and could ask you about that again in 40 years. I hope you realize, Matt, that not all young people feel like that..(too many for my taste, but not all)...seems to me that the way you express it is very much YOUR personal issue... ...but, you are correct, I doubt that your explanation WOULD convince me, so I will not engage you about it again... |
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14 Feb 01 - 09:28 PM (#398244) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Matt_R Wbat an etch a sketch is to art? HA! What do you know about art? Constructivism wire stabiles look EXACTLY like Etch-A-Sketch doodles. |
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14 Feb 01 - 09:37 PM (#398250) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: CarolC On the other hand, it looks like you boys are having fun, so I'll just shut the door when I leave, shall I? |
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14 Feb 01 - 09:38 PM (#398251) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: hesperis What about the rights of songbirds? Even in National parks, some songbirds are forgetting their mating calls, because of ever-present noise. One guy is campaigning for "one inch of silence", and it is astounding to realize what is in fact lost by all the music and noise that we make in "modern" life. There would have to be no noise-making activity in a radius of miles to get a mere one inch. And humans need silence too... I read the article in a not-online mag, and don't even remember the title. Has anyone else got a link? |
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14 Feb 01 - 09:39 PM (#398252) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Matt_R No, take me with you! |
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14 Feb 01 - 09:50 PM (#398255) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: CarolC Matt, I want you to know that I never do this for anyone, but I'm going to do it for you now... (here goes... ) LOL!!!! Carol |
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14 Feb 01 - 10:19 PM (#398263) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: kendall Interesting how you focus on how I talk to Matt. Did you read what he said to me? Yes, I had kids. The oldest is 28, and, has learned manners. Matt, I might know a lot more about art than you think. Remember, I've been around three times as long as you have. |
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14 Feb 01 - 10:29 PM (#398267) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Troll Kendall, can I join you and 'Spaw? Bardford, the attendant you asked about the music at the gas station was not the owner but some minimum-wage register jockey who couldn't care less if you don't come back. Find out who the owner is and let him know of your displeasure with the music and his employees attitude. That may get results. The safety of distance can make even the most timid bold beyond what is sensible and rude and obnoxious toward people whose life experience is probably far beyond what they will ever experience first hand. Are constructivism stabiles art? Some would say no; that they fall more in the craft area. I have no opinion one way or the other. But I have seen stuff exhibited as art that did absolutely nothing for me personally and I feel that I have a fair feeling for the subject. My first ex-wife was a working artist and the Memsahib has a degree in art history. The point is this Matt_R. If Kendall doesn't like your taste(?) in music, it's his right to say so. His Etch-a-Sketch analogy is quite apt. You may think that a crucifix in a glass of piss is art but I don't and I don't think that ANYTHING played at deafening volumes is good music. I recall seeing a bumper sticker about 10 years ago that said,"If it's too loud, you're too old". That's not "in your face", thats rude, crass, and totally inconsiderate and by no rational definition should art or music be any of those things. If it chooses to be then if had better expect the criticism it gets. troll |
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14 Feb 01 - 10:31 PM (#398272) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: CarolC I know, kendall. I realized after I posted that you would probably point that out. The way I look at it is that as someone who should know better, I need to do my best to set a good example. Young people learn what they live, and live what they learn. Matt isn't a kid. He's a young adult. However, you and I are supposed to be older and wiser, aren't we? Do you think your manners are better than Matt's? I think if we took the name headings and musical references away, it would be difficult to tell the difference between your posts and Matt's posts. Sorry. Carol |
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14 Feb 01 - 10:53 PM (#398286) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Matt_R Well, if you asked anyone in real life about me, manners would probably be the first thing they would say. And WHY IN GOD'S NAME does everyone ASSUME that since my Dad was in the military, that he was the stereotypical domineering military dictator? My Dad is a great warm, caring guy, not an "enforcer". Maybe the reason I don't like like musical bigots is because I USED to be one. And maybe if someone got in MY face and told me off, I might got the hint to discover more music later than 17 years of age (a mere 4 years ago) before I realized there was something beyond my own constricted, narrow mind. I lumped everything together, pulled stereotypes...while never ever sitting down to just LISTEN to something. And I think that that first venture into classical music allowed me to explore beyond the stereotypes and to use the theories of music analysis and theory to understand all the music I began to listen to. I perservere. I eat chocolate covered coffee beans...the little devils are nasty and make you cringe, but I can't stop eating them. Now I never cringe...to me they are delicious and quite addicting. The mind has an amazing way of attaching itself to something, no matter how nasty, when it is frequently in contact. It's like that with anything. But if you're unwilling to LISTEN, to STOP smacking everything you don't understand, you'll never get anywhere. |
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14 Feb 01 - 11:06 PM (#398293) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: kendall Troll, you may join Spaw and me. Being a republican, you could probably use a friend! LOL. Matt, I was exposed to classical music at a young age, and, grew to love much of it. However, some of it is noise to me, and I dont care who wrote it. There are many kinds of music that I like, however, we seem to be focused on what I DONT like.Neither You nor anyone else will never make me like muzak, or anything that is run by electricity. Volume will never replace talent. You will probably never be a lover of folk music. Let's leave it at that, ok? "On a dead mans door, you can knock forever."(Or on a Dead Heads door) |
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14 Feb 01 - 11:12 PM (#398294) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Pseudolus Couldn't have said it better myself Matt and that thing about your Dad? love it.... I want my kids to feel about me at 21 the way you do about your Dad.....
Frank |
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14 Feb 01 - 11:32 PM (#398299) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Matt_R Pseud, my Dad is awesome. He gives us hugs and kisses and tells how he loves us, and we're 22,20, and 19. I wish everyone could have loving caring relationships with their parents. I'm blessed that I do. |
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14 Feb 01 - 11:42 PM (#398306) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: wdyat12 Love Your Dads, I lost my dad when I was 20 and there is so much I never told him, but he shared 20 years of his life with me. wdyat12 |
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15 Feb 01 - 07:11 AM (#398435) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: rube1 kendall, I do have at least a spoonful of brains and I also would not classify "all" folk music as "diddly o day or whatever." I'm absolutely with you there. But my spoonful of brains is not taxed in the least by those "diddly o day" choruses. Please and thank you, nix nix. I can tolerate or tune out almost anything musical or semi-musical, including muzak, but not thos fiddle dee di do dee do day doding dong doodlyedy dum day do dees. |
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15 Feb 01 - 08:07 AM (#398454) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Mr Red I like pipe music - except maybe the bagpipes - nargh only kidding. I guess we have to vote with our feet, & I don't mean tapping. Workplace is the worst - fortunately I don't have that kinda job but I have spent time in those places. Usually the music is the least nauseating thing. |
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15 Feb 01 - 08:34 AM (#398463) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: kendall Maybe I should have been more careful about how I said what I said. Fact is, I do not mean to attack anyone personally. All I'm saying is, I dont care for Jazz (except Dixieland) I hate Rock in any form, and, I detest muzak. I dont mean to say I hate those who do. Matt, I've been called a "Music bigot" before, and maybe I am, but, if you want to get into a name calling contest, go elsewhere. In a battle of wits you dont "pack the gear". |
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15 Feb 01 - 08:44 AM (#398471) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: GUEST,Matt_R I believe I've just been called unintelligent. |
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15 Feb 01 - 11:33 AM (#398593) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: LR Mole Hm. No, I don't believe I shall join in. |
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15 Feb 01 - 03:42 PM (#398805) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Kim C Matt and Kendall, I think you both have important things to say from time to time, and I don't think anybody here is unintelligent. Mister's uncle, who is a curmudgeon from the word Go, once said almost exactly that same thing to me about the battle of wits. While Uncle is very often unreasonable in his arguments, he was right. Even if he is wrong a lot of the time, he is still older and wiser than me so I just don't argue with him anymore. I just nod my head and have another glass of wine. And once in awhile, we will actually agree on something. :) I do agree that volume does not replace talent - but I also think there is a time and place for volume, and a time and place for silence. I love rock music. Always have. I also love classical music and have to agree with Kendall here that some of it is noise - I don't care for the arty dissonance that some modern composers like to use. But I say, if it sounds good, it IS good, even if it's only good to you.
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15 Feb 01 - 03:48 PM (#398811) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: kendall No Matt, I did not say you were not intelligent. In fact, I believe from your posts that you are quite bright. That has nothing to do with being witty. I am a master of the caustic remark and the perfect squelch, but, I dont choose to do that here, because I dont dislike anyone here, (at least, not enough to let the dogs out) |
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15 Feb 01 - 04:00 PM (#398815) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Ebbie I must say that Matt's brevity in that pithy line tickled my funny bone. Quite often humor in your posts doesn't come through clearly enough to suit me, Matt, but it did, there. LOL Ebbie |
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15 Feb 01 - 04:58 PM (#398857) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: katlaughing On a more serious note and in relation to some of what has been said earlier in this thread about society and no silence, sometimes it can be fatal: click here |
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15 Feb 01 - 09:23 PM (#399053) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: kendall Those who know have warned us that too much noise will drive us crazy. It is a serious health hazard. |
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15 Feb 01 - 09:36 PM (#399064) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: catspaw49 What caused it in your case Kendall? Spaw |
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15 Feb 01 - 10:23 PM (#399088) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: wdyat12 Stop that Right Now! wdyat12 |
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15 Feb 01 - 10:37 PM (#399097) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: catspaw49 Stop what? Stop the diligent pursuit of the truth? How can we do that? Its a known fact that Kendall is 3 frets short of a neck and we are probing the reasons as to how and why this is. We are looking for clues here.....like the fact that he once left his house for 3 days because he had a runaway printer that was filling the whole place with printouts of porn stars. Since he states he hates loud music, that isn't it and our search must continue. I personally am now tracking on his predisposition for eating coffee soaked Fruit Loops. Matt is a different case and possibly more troubling since he is not normal either and though he admits to liking loud music, his mental incapacity seems to predate this by several years. Spaw Spaw |
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15 Feb 01 - 10:39 PM (#399099) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Sorcha Are you guys through fighing yet? Both of you are being juvenile, and everybody else is trying to do damage control......... |
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15 Feb 01 - 10:44 PM (#399101) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Matt_R Fighting? Who's fighting? Not me! Kendall, where you fighting? I didn't think you were! |
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16 Feb 01 - 03:24 PM (#399611) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: kendall Naw, Matt...girls just dont understand guys thats all! Spaw, do you ever forget anything? Actually, I think I was born this way (Not threaded all the way on) |
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16 Feb 01 - 03:30 PM (#399616) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: kendall Sorcha deah, let me explain. When women have something to say, they tend to "pussy foot" around. When guys have something on their minds, they dont "Beat around the bush" Matt thinks I'm a dinosaur, I think of him as a young piss ant. We dont hate each other... at least, I dont think so. |
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17 Feb 01 - 03:26 PM (#400297) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: Little Hawk To call you a dinosaur would not be fair, Kendall, because you are not extinct...yet. :-) Listen, guys, you think you've got it bad? I went to lunch at the Bagel place yeserday, and had to sit through an entire collection of the Carpenters greatest hits... - LH |
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17 Feb 01 - 04:35 PM (#400346) Subject: RE: RANT (Please join in):Musical Wallpaper! From: GUEST,petr My favorite coffee shop/bagel place has a lot of young kids working there and often theres music I find to loud even though I like reggae I dont want to listen to it all the time. The music varies depending on whats on the cd changer. Since I like to go there to read I find when I cant sit outside (if its cold) Ill listen to my discman and shut out the other stuff. Sometimes though Ive heard some enchanting music being played and asked what it was. I do agree that we dont get enough silence. At a fiddle festival after 5 days of constant music (during the waking hours) having a walk in the woods in complete silence was soothing break. on the subject of muzak, I hate it, as its an attempt to make a bland music that will please everyone and probably pleases no one. Recently I heard a bird conservation society in england had birdsongs their phone system. People loved it so much that they called all the time and asked to be put on hold. Maybe others can learn from that. |