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16 Feb 01 - 08:23 PM (#399805) Subject: Gobbledegook lyrics in database^^ From: MARINER I've just looked up "Farewell to the Rhondda" in the lyrics database and the lyrics given are gobbledegook, particularly the second version. "Farewll" was written by Frank Hennessy, a friend of mine, sometime in the 1960's and is one of my favourite songs and it annoys me to find such a load of nonsense posing as the lyrics.Has anyone else discovered the same with any of their favourites??. The tune in the Midi section is a bit "iffy" as well, almost but not quite, right. ^^ |
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16 Feb 01 - 08:38 PM (#399809) Subject: RE: Gobbledegook From: kendall Did you ever hear Oscar Brand butcher sea songs? |
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16 Feb 01 - 08:52 PM (#399815) Subject: RE: Gobbledegook From: GUEST, Dropped Cookie Mariner, I think that what people usually do here at the Mudcat, when they spot a problem with a posted or DT song, is offer another version of it or, if it is a proofreading sort of error, a correction. If your sense of the material differs from what is in the DT, perhaps a discussion of the differences would be of interest and assistance as well. One night, my stepson and husband were jamming and I came along. "Let's do 'The Cat Came Back'," said my stepson Mike. I got very excited. Hadn't heard it in YEARS. They don't sing, so I offered to sing for them as they played. "Naw," I said, "I know if cold, I don't need the songbook, go ahead!" They started. I started. I got very upset. "Mike! Why are you blues-ing that up like that?" Was he mocking the song, teasing me, being creative.... ??? Butchering my FAVORITE!!! Blasphemy!!! "No, he said, "look, on the page, I am playing it exactly as given." He was! "But it doesn;t GO that way...." I started. "Honey, this is how I've always heard it," sez my husband. The book had a minor version. I happened to learn a major version. Did I know it had another version? Did they? Each thought the other daft and rude. It was years before they believed I had not learned it "wrong" because I learn by ear. NOW, though, I have the exact version I learned, because Art Thieme was kind enough to send me a tape out of his archive, a live set by the people I learned it from. There it was, complete with the same introductory patter between songs that I had heard way back THEN (at the No Exit, and funny we have a thread on the list today about that dear old place.) So... I guess I would ask, contribute via the folk process to build up what I can learn, but think a bit about complaining that a volunteer has done yer favorites wrong. HELP, first, maybe? ~S~ I'm having a hard time seeing if what yy want is oinformation about how many other mistakes there may be in the DT, how many variations there may be in the DT, or if you want people to get the |
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16 Feb 01 - 08:57 PM (#399821) Subject: RE: Gobbledegook From: MARINER Can't say I've ever heard too much of Oscar Brand, even though I'm almost certain I have an album of his somewhere in the back of my collection. What worries me about the strange lyrics on Farewell to the Rhondda is if they're wrong, how many others are wrong aswell. O.K. the Welsh words, placenames and pronounciations are not always easy but surely some effort should be made to get them right. There must be Welsh Mudcatters out there(Bora Da, bachs ) who would help.I'm almost certain there's no place in Wales called Tilly fanny or what ever the heck the lyrics posted call it.And the guy that axed the mines was Robbins as far as I can recall. |
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16 Feb 01 - 09:01 PM (#399825) Subject: RE: Gobbledegook From: GUEST SOME EFFORT was made. NOW IT'S YOUR TURN. If you know how to fix them post it here. ~S~ |
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16 Feb 01 - 09:10 PM (#399834) Subject: RE: Gobbledegook From: MARINER Dropped Cookie, I take your point,but the second version, in particular seems to be full of ficticious place names and I just think that if left like that it stands a chance of, in time, being accepted as the correct lyric.I understand it's difficult, in fact many years ago we sang another Hennessey song called "The Gypsy" and the way we heard one line was "the orange is growing on the bank" when it actually was "the hour is growing on now", it's his CAArdiff accent,but thankfully discovered the error before we made complete fools of ourselves. Incidently Frank Hennessy is a song writer worth checking out. Most of his stuff is published by Land of Song Music. |
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16 Feb 01 - 09:15 PM (#399839) Subject: RE: Gobbledegook From: MARINER Guest I'll do just that, but don't hold your breath as it'll take me a while to figure out the spelling. Tonypandy etc is not too difficult but some of the others are tongue twisters for the non Welsh. |
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17 Feb 01 - 12:10 AM (#399955) Subject: RE: Gobbledegook From: GUEST, Dropped Cookie Mariner, Ya know, ya caught me on a crabby day. I am really pleased though that you HEARD me, Mariner, because it's such a pleasure that you care enough even if someone bristles. OK, so I'm crabby, what was it about THIS thread that got me going? I think what got to me about this was remembering all the threads there have been discussing back and forth, endlessly, some song I'd never even heard of-- people trying to sort out, hundreds of years after a song's birth, how the song first was sung, how it shifted to other meanings, words, tunes... I have an awful lot of respect for not only the knowledge behind this process, but the energy people doing that have put into fishing up details for each other and LISTENING to each other. I just got my back up when your "alternative" approach was, "This sucks!!" Cuz see, I dunno ANY of these versions.... any of the reasons why one word matters here, another there-- but if all you do is say they suck, I don't WANT to know any more. See? You get to be the teacher... YOU get to be the one to pass on something that is clearly important to you. People will fish up this thread years and years later and if you post what YOU can contribute, others will too, and it will ALL be here. Just think, if a hundred years ago or two, people could have documented as personally and thoroughly as we can here. Makes me just wonder who will add what... see? No apologies for being crabby... but encouragement to go after the things these songs oughtta have in their "record." Go for it. I'll be looking forward to what happens. ~curtsey~ ~S~ |
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17 Feb 01 - 06:43 AM (#400047) Subject: RE: Gobbledegook From: Morticia Mariner, there are welsh people and people who live in Wales right here on the Mudcat...ask them for spellings and I have no doubt they shall be brought forth in abundance ( how does a bun dance, anyone know?). |
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17 Feb 01 - 07:15 AM (#400055) Subject: RE: Gobbledegook From: Snuffy Mariner Back in July last year I posted corrections to the song in this thread on coal mining songs. The ^^ marks at the end lead me to believe that the next edition of the Digital Tradition datatbase will include the corrections. Wassail! V |
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17 Feb 01 - 07:20 AM (#400056) Subject: RE: Gobbledegook From: MARINER Dropped Cookie, et al, I know what you mean,Iwas a bit out of sorts myself last night ( just had a tooth cut out of my gum)so I apologise to the person who posted the lyrics, at least they tried.Now here are the proper lyrics, all it took was a call to a friend in Cardiff to sort out the spelling. Idon't know the process of posting to the Data Base, so for now they are here.HERE GOES!. chorus Farewll the colliery worker ,the muffler and the cap, Farewell you Rhondda Valley girls, we never will come back, The mines they are all closing, the valleys are all doomed, There's no work in The Rhondda boys, we'll be in London soom. 1st verse. My |
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17 Feb 01 - 07:30 AM (#400058) Subject: RE: Gobbledegook From: MARINER Hell, something went wrong there.I'll carry on. 1st verse. My Father was a miner,his Father was before him, always had been proud to work below, Since they fell 'neath Robbins axe All the lads have got the sack' And away to work in Englsnd we must go. chorus. No more the chapel singin', that long ago has left us, In the public house no more the miners song, For the pit wheels are all stoppin' and the population's droppin' And we can't afford to stay here very long. chorus. Treherbert and Treorchy, Tonypandy and Tynewydd, Ustrad Rhondda, Tonpentre all adieu, for we can no longer wait, While Parliament debates, so a fond farwell I bid to all of you. chorus. That's it, |
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17 Feb 01 - 07:43 AM (#400063) Subject: RE: Gobbledegook From: MARINER Snuffy, just had a look at your thread, I never knew Mick Maloney recorded it.I notice you spell Ystrad Rhondda with the Y rather thah the way I spelt it With a U. Looking at the spelling and reaching back into my memory of my years in Wales, I think your spelling is the correct one, mind you this means that my Welsh speaking friend is either wrong or that I picked it up wrong.But then, what else is new? |
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17 Feb 01 - 01:52 PM (#400237) Subject: RE: Gobbledegook From: GUEST, Dropped Cookie Mariner, I would be pleased to count you friend, and now that I see these words, I want to hear the song. I bet if this computer could play the MIDI, I'd want to sing and play it. Just becasue of this thread, my world enlarged. Someone will come along and fix your linebreaks-- another volunteer... if you want, you can post a request over in the Help Forum section of Mudcat asking someone to do it, in case they dpon't see it here. They might even retitle the thread if you ask, so that the people who fix the database will easily spot this. Among the threads. Or you could send Joe Offer a PM about it, maybe? He does a lot of the harvesting of thread material to go into the database. Instructions on how to make linebreaks stick when you post are in ther FAQ thread. Welcome home to Mudcat. I'm going to really look forward to you around here. ~Susan |