15 Oct 97 - 07:15 AM (#14779) Subject: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone? From: Steve D. Anyone have the lyrics for 'Oakham Poachers'(?). I heard John Kirkpatrick doing the song and thought it was excellent. On the subject of poaching tunes; does anyone know whether these tunes of poor poachers who always got caught and shipped off to Botany Bay/ sentenced to death were sort of anti-poaching propaganda? I'd like to here some thoughts on this. Cheers, S.D. |
15 Oct 97 - 12:52 PM (#14802) Subject: RE: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone? From: Nonie Rider Hadn't thought of that. Most of the ones I've heard have sounded more like broadside stuff: half sensational, half sympathetic. Trash TV of the day. Titles are hard to track by, and I don't have Kirkpatrick. Can you quote a line or two? Primary poacher song that everyone seems to be performing now is the one beginning "Concerning of three young men/ One night in January," which the database has under the title "Bold Poachers." |
15 Oct 97 - 06:51 PM (#14813) Subject: Lyr Add: OAKHAM POACHERS From: bigj Young men of every station, that dwell within this nation, Pray hear my lamentation, a sad and mournful tale. Concerning of five fine young men that lately were confined And heavily bound in irons in Oakham county gaol.
On the ninth of January, against the laws contrary
The keepers did not enter, nor dared those woods to venture
Then homewards they were making, nine pheasants they were taking
Taken we were with speed for this inhuman deed,
Their names I now will mention, John, Robert and George Perkins
May He who feeds the raven, grant these men peace in Heaven.
So all young men take warning and don't the laws be scorning, As published in "The Foggy Dew" - More songs from the Hammond & Gardner MSS by Frank Purslow. |
15 Oct 97 - 08:00 PM (#14818) Subject: RE: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone? From: Nonie Rider (Is next-to-last line missing above? Two of 'em transported?) Definitely a dressed-up cousin of "Bold Poachers". Hope the above can be added to the DB with cross-references between 'em! |
19 Oct 97 - 08:04 PM (#14972) Subject: RE: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone? From: bigj Yup, sorry! Line 3 -So don't the laws encroach on - two of them were transported, |
20 Oct 97 - 07:14 AM (#14985) Subject: RE: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone? From: Steve D. Thanks for that. It's a little more elaborate than the version I've heard but probably better for it. I'll have to sit down and learn it now..... |
20 Oct 97 - 10:07 AM (#14992) Subject: RE: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone? From: Alan of Australia G'day, The Oakham Poachers/Bold Poachers song is a true story - one of the three Perkins brothers was the ancestor first cousins of mine. The detail in the song is pretty close to the truth - John (26), Robert (24) and George (23) Perkins were poaching one night & were assailed by a couple of keepers, one of whom was shot in the private parts (according to the transcript of the trial which I have seen). As a result of all this John was hung, Robert and George were confined in a hulk on the Thames where Robert died due to the appalling conditions. George was finally transported to Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) where he served out his time. He stayed in Tasmania until his death in early middle age when a coroner's report remarked on the fact that his body was covered in scars from the lashes he had received while he was a convict.
Cheers, |
21 Oct 97 - 06:35 PM (#15039) Subject: RE: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone? From: bigj Thanks for the information Alan. This is an example of how folkmusic works and the value of continuity between the present and the past. |
28 Oct 97 - 10:08 AM (#15401) Subject: Tune Add: THE OAKHAM POACHERS From: Alan of Australia G'day, Here is the tune as published in "The Foggy Dew" mentioned by bigj.
MIDI file: OAKHAM.MID Timebase: 480 Name: THE OAKHAM POACHERS To download the MIDItext software click here ABC format: X:1 For an explanation of this see the thread "Now you can post MIDI files". Cheers,
|
28 Oct 97 - 10:56 AM (#15406) Subject: Tune Add: THE OAKHAM POACHERS From: Alan of Australia Try that again (still learning - there must be a space after Name:) that was a careless edit of mine.
MIDI file: OAKHAM.MID Timebase: 480 Name: THE OAKHAM POACHERS Cheers, |
28 Oct 97 - 01:05 PM (#15413) Subject: RE: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone? From: Martin Ryan Nice set of words! Sounds a lot like "The Boys of Mullaghbawn", with the very Irish triple rhymes. Regards |
31 Mar 14 - 05:14 PM (#3614096) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: GUEST,Sara Goddard Hey, This is almost 20 years on from the last post but I'm in a group doing an educational project and we're hoping to use the story of the Perkins'brothers. Particularly interested tohear from you Alan if you're still around. Can you give me any more details? Regards |
25 Jan 18 - 03:35 PM (#3901761) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: GUEST,Tudy McLain I've pondered this song for 40 years, first hasving heard the Steeleye version. It seems biased toward the poachers. We never heard what happened to the keeper. Was he the one that died? We're the other keepers hurt? Who got the pheasants? Tudy |
25 Jan 18 - 03:53 PM (#3901769) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: Steve Gardham It reads almost like a newspaper report of the event but the writer has obvious sympathy with the poachers and it was very likely written by an Irish immigrant as someone has remarked. This triple rhyming (overkill) is rarely found this side of the Irish Sea but is common on Irish printed broadsides. Wiggy Smith can be heard singing a version on Topic TSCD668 'To catch a fine Buck was my delight' and on the Musical Traditions MTCD307 'Band of Gold'. The event is described in great detail at www.rutlandhistory.org/HRW/chapter-007 The ballad was quite widely printed on broadsides. |
25 Jan 18 - 03:56 PM (#3901770) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: Steve Gardham Oakham Poachers |
25 Jan 18 - 03:57 PM (#3901771) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: Steve Gardham Yes! My first blue clicky! |
25 Jan 18 - 04:06 PM (#3901774) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: Steve Gardham That doesn't work! |
27 Jan 18 - 07:38 AM (#3902145) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: GUEST,Mick Pearce (MCP) Oakham Poachers |
27 Jan 18 - 07:45 AM (#3902146) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: GUEST,Mick Pearce (MCP) Sorry entered by accident and before I checked the link. I was going to say to Steve that your link didn't work because you created a mudcat local link, which in this case doesn't exist. You need to put the https part at the start to make an offsite link, Also, your address contained a space between Oakham Poachers (which will get you a pdf download) Mick |
27 Jan 18 - 01:00 PM (#3902228) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: Steve Gardham Nice one, Mick. |
28 Jan 18 - 01:38 PM (#3902412) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: Tradsinger Just discovered this thread, which I find very interesting. Wiggy Smith, the Gloucestershire gypsy, sang the song. You can hear his version here. Wiggy told me that it was a true story and that his family were the perpetrators but how much veracity you can place on this claim is doubtful. I was therefore interested in the reference to the Perkins brothers. I see that the broadside, dated between 1863 and 1865 does mention the Perkins brothers, so that seems good evidence for me. PS - Mick and Steve - I can't get your hyperlinks to work. Tradsinger |
28 Jan 18 - 02:24 PM (#3902437) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: GUEST,Mick Pearce Tradsinger - you need to use my link from 07:45 am post. The 07:38 doesn't work - I accidentally posted it while I was still checking the link. (Maybe mudelf can remove my 07:38 post) Mick |
28 Jan 18 - 03:09 PM (#3902442) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: Steve Gardham Gwilym, Try going to the rutlandhistory.org site and look through chapter 7. There isn't quite as much detail as I thought but I think I have seen a detailed account somewhere. It happened in 1833 I think and is probably reported in the newspapers of the time. |
28 Jan 18 - 05:25 PM (#3902482) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: Tradsinger Thanks for that, Steve and Mick. I'll amend the entry on the glostrad site. It makes Wiggy's explanation a bit fanciful but why spoil a good story with the truth! |
30 Jan 18 - 08:04 PM (#3902931) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: Brian Peters Nice work, Mick and Steve, |
30 Dec 18 - 06:26 AM (#3968826) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: GUEST,Anne Aggiss nee perkins I'm a direct descendant also |
18 Mar 19 - 07:07 AM (#3982820) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers From: GUEST,Tim Clough Most interested to read this thread. The story is a true one, that of the three brothers John, Robert and George Perkins who were caught with William Lomas poaching in Empingham Woods, Rutland, on 30th January 1833. They fired on and wounded the gamekeeper Thomas Peach, who survived to give evidence against them at their trial before Judge Denman at Oakham Castle in the following month. The three brothers were sentenced to death but only John was hanged. The gallows still survive in the Rutland County Museum. Various versions of the ballad can be viewed online on the Bodleian Library website at http://ballads.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/search/roud/1686, and there is an article in our journal Rutland Record 18 (1998)pp342-49, accessible free at http://www.rutlandhistory.org/rutlandrecord/rr18.pdf. We did know that there were descendants and would be happy to be in contact do message me at editor@rutlandhistory.org. The reference given by Steve Gardham above to 'Chapter 7' is to our publication Heritage of Rutland Water - go to pp 136-7 for details. |
02 Aug 21 - 04:12 PM (#4115161) Subject: RE: Origins: Oakham Poachers From: Joe Offer Any other versions? |
03 Aug 21 - 06:12 AM (#4115233) Subject: RE: Origins: Oakham Poachers From: GUEST,Nick Dow Goliath 'Gillie' Cole sang the song to Gardiner. The Cole family have sent me a photo of Gillie Cole (Gillie means singer in Romany) I have permission to publish it. It's in my new book. (See separate thread) I sent it to John K. who said he looked remarkably similar to his Grand Father! Joe if you want the photo I'll send it through. Nick |
04 Aug 21 - 04:34 PM (#4115405) Subject: RE: Origins: Oakham Poachers From: GUEST,# "Any other versions?" There are versions on YT from John Kirkpatrick, Shirley Collins, Wiggy Smith and also Steve Knightley. |
07 Aug 21 - 04:13 AM (#4115684) Subject: RE: Origins: Oakham Poachers From: GeoffLawes Various performances on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=The+Oakham+Poachers |
26 Jun 23 - 05:40 PM (#4175585) Subject: RE: Origins: Oakham Poachers From: Joe Offer Take a look at https://mainlynorfolk.info/martin.carthy/songs/theoakhampoachers.html |