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09 Mar 01 - 05:06 PM (#414249) Subject: water heaters From: mousethief My lovely wife and I must soon replace our venerable old water heater -- it's 35 years old with an expected life of 10 years, it's plumbed illegally, the plumber who fixed the pressure valve last year was amazed it wasn't flooding the basement yet, and -- this is the kicker -- it used to last through 3 showers and now barely makes it through one. A friend suggested I look into one of those tankless heaters -- does anybody have any experience with those? Are they good? Bad? Indifferent? In these days of skyrocketing energy costs, is it a better "deal" than keeping a huge mass of water hot 24/7? Thoughs appreciated. |
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09 Mar 01 - 05:27 PM (#414263) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: mousethief Somebody? Anybody? |
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09 Mar 01 - 05:28 PM (#414266) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: bill\sables By a tankless heater I presume you mean a heater that only heates the water on demand. We in the UK call it a combi boiler as it combines domestic water with the centeral heating system. I had one in my last house run from L.P.G. gas as we did not have a natural gas supply. I found that it was very ecconomical and very efficient, there was always as much hot water as you needed and the heating system had to be turned down to about quarter what it was with an emersion heater in the tank. The house I am in now has a large gas heater in a cupboard which only runs about as much hot water to fill half a bath so as soon as I have the money I will get a combi again. The combi is also much smaller and fixes to the wall of the garage or utility room which will give me extra space for instrument storage I hope this is of use to you Bill |
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09 Mar 01 - 05:34 PM (#414270) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: Eric the Viking Do you mean, what we might call in the UK a "multipoint"? It can do one or both jobs. Heat hot water by gas only when the tap is turned on or centrally heat a house and provide hot water at the turn of a tap. We don't have central heating and have a multipoint for hot water only. It works fine, gives plenty of HOT water, can be mixed for a shower and fills a bath with no problem. Yes I would say it's well worth it as you only pay for what you consume and don't waste heat back into the environment.You do need to check that it can run a shower as there are underpowered ones available that will give hot water and fill baths, but do not have sufficient ability to mix with a shower under pressure. Cheers. Eric |
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09 Mar 01 - 05:46 PM (#414278) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: Bert Certainly worth considering. Do a search on the web for 'demand heaters' |
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09 Mar 01 - 07:31 PM (#414332) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: Ebbie I know a wilderness lodge 30 air miles from Juneau that uses a propane gas-fired coil heater. I don't know how economical it is but it works very well indeed. Here in town a friend installed an electric-fired heater and he and his wife love it. (He installed it himself.) He says it paid for itself very quickly and saves them thousands of dollars a year. Their house isn't small- it has three levels- a small apartment on the ground level and a two-story house above it and it easily handles their needs. Ebbie |
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09 Mar 01 - 07:43 PM (#414339) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: Amos Stayed with a friend who had a big house in Guadalajara, and he had these point-of-delivery, heat-on-demand heaters in each bath (I think he had three or four). They worlked like a charm and the lag on hot water at the showerhead was dramatically short compared to what I've seen with a tank at the "other end" of the house. I have also considered just getting a second water heater for the far end of the house. Another option is a cross over valve that keeps the HW circulating back to the HW heater all the time, very slowly, so what's at the tap is already heated. Probably the cheapest solution. A |
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09 Mar 01 - 08:11 PM (#414347) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: Cap't Bob If you have hard water deposits will build up in the bottom of the tank and thus reduce the amount of water the tank can hold. Electric heaters can be cleaned out by removing the lower heating element and scooping the sediment. I usually have to do that every two years with our tank. It's a good idea to replace the heating elements about every two years also. (not a good idea to do this if you don't know what you are doing ~ the tank must be shut off ann drained first) Our hot water costs drop considerably during the winter months when the wood furnace is running. I put a heating coil in the fire box and we get most of our hot water through that system. Never tried the demand type heaters but sounds like a good idea. Cap't Bob |
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09 Mar 01 - 08:53 PM (#414360) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: dick greenhaus If you have an electric heater, don't bother. A gas heater (conventional) has a significant storage heat loss; an instantaneous, or "flash" heater will save on that. Most, though,won't supply as much hot water as us folks in the effete US are used to. (Electric instantaneous heaters will provide a goodly flow of barely warm water or a stingy trickle of hot water---your house wiring just won't permit a current high enough to heat water at more than a moderate rate.) |
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09 Mar 01 - 09:04 PM (#414366) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: Metchosin Well we have one thing in common mousethief, our hot water tanks packed it in last week, but yours has ours beat, as ours has only been running for 25 years, despite the high mineralization of our well water. It will be interesting too see the inside of the beast, as we believe its capacity and efficiency must be severely diminished after years of calcium build up. We are going to remain with the tanks system as the tank provides an emergency water source when the power goes out, which happens in the winter here fairly frequently, so that may be another reason you might consider keeping a tank. |
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09 Mar 01 - 11:31 PM (#414456) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: Amos Jes' fill it up with white vinegar and beat on it like a tom-tom for four hours; then run a hose out of the outlet to the nearest drain and flush it out three, four tomes over -- you'll see all the chalk in the world comin' outta it. A |
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10 Mar 01 - 02:16 AM (#414518) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: Jon Freeman The flat I lived in for the last 4 years had an on demand gas heater for the hot water. I thought it was great - an unlimited supply of hot water when you needed it and no cost of heating unwanted quantities of water or heat loss through a storage cylinder. Jon |
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10 Mar 01 - 03:24 AM (#414521) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: Hillheader If thinking about an instant heater, make sure you get one powerful enough for your system. If the taps (fawcets) are too far aware from the heater, then the water will be cooling as it travels. I don't know where you are mousethief, but a cold climate might rule out siting the heater in a garage as the pipe from the garage to the house may freeze in winter. Incidently, British Gas (who also operate in North America) have an electricy combi boiler on the market at present capable of running a cetral heating system and giving instant hot water. It's supposedly very efficient. Their web site is www.gas.co.uk.
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10 Mar 01 - 03:35 AM (#414522) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: Jon Freeman Just reading the comments and thoughts on using electricity. I could be wrong but I would guess that electrical solutions are harder in the US than in the UK as the use something like 110V - for a given output, the wires have to take roughly double the current and we in the UK are looking at over 30 Amps for an 8KW shower unit. I dread to think of the thinkness of cabling needed in the US. Jon |
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10 Mar 01 - 05:35 AM (#414537) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: John J I have a combi boiler, and when it was new it was very good indeed: fuel bills down by 50%, although some of this is down to the old and inefficient boiler I had before. Things to check out / consider when buying one (in my opinion) : Cost and availability of spares parts (a simple pressure switch on mine costs £85.00+ tax, a realistic price would be £20-25, a diverter valve, a common failure in combi boilers, is £280+tax, half the price of the boiler when new). Get the largest capacity boiler you can (within reason). Prices of some boilers on special offer at some plumbers in UK might seem attractive. Speak to a plumber who knows. What you really need is a plumber who's a musician / singer. I know a couple in UK. PM me for details. My comment that my boiler was very good when new would suggest it ain't too good now. That's right. I've had some failures that really should not have happened, but they did. Expensive, for MY boiler. Not so bad for other makes. I still really like combi boilers, and would certainly have another. John |
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10 Mar 01 - 11:05 AM (#414632) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: Mr Red My 10 year old combi provides hot water eventually when all pipes en-route are warmed-up. Fills the bath in 1/2 hour unless you run cold at the same time when the hot stops then runs cold again for an eon. Yea Yea I know its the run and lay of the pipes but that's the warning. Plan ahead and lag the hot water pipe and don't supply cold from the same pipe run or same side of any pressure reducing valve. This was put in by the house builder - nuff said. Previous owners fitted an electric shower, thank goodness. |
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10 Mar 01 - 03:36 PM (#414792) Subject: RE: BS: water heaters From: Hollowfox Hey, Metchosin, if you don't want to follow Amos' advice, you could take your old heater to a lapidary show and sell it as a geode. *g* |