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28 Mar 01 - 10:10 AM (#427477) Subject: 'Hole in the Ground' question From: Vixen D'Cats-- My partner Tim and I have been doing a kiddie song called "Hole in the Ground." It's one of those songs like "Hole in the Bottom of the Sea" and "I Know an Old Lady who Swallowed a Fly".
"Once there was hole
Oh the hole in the ground and the green grass grows
Well in that hole
Oh the dirt in the hole You get the idea, I'm sure.... Anyway, my first question is, WHO WROTE THIS SONG??? If possible, I'd like to know who wrote the lyrics and who wrote the tune...It's not in the digitrad, at least not as "Hole in the Ground," so I'm assuming it's got somebody's copyright on it. I'd like to know, because we take all sorts of fun liberties with the song (for example, we played a gig at Big Bird's house, and put Big Bird in the egg in the nest on the branch on the limb on the tree on the roots in the dirt in the hole in the ground... Which leads me to my second question...when does a song cross over from a "composed work" with copyright to a "folk process" song where people have added and changed and otherwise modified a piece beyond its original form and content? As always, I eagerly await your input! V
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28 Mar 01 - 10:18 AM (#427488) Subject: RE: 'Hole in the Ground' question From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler All Music guide lists a version by Thom Parrott (assuming it's the same song) on a "Best of Broadside" compilation of the '60s, so if anyone has a set of Broadside and an index...It's yet a another song I'd forgotten but as soon as I read the thread it sprang into my old brain. I seem to remember it sung by a group but don't know its origin. Bet Joe O will know. RtS |
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28 Mar 01 - 10:33 AM (#427505) Subject: RE: 'Hole in the Ground' question From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler BTW to avoid muddying the waters this is NOT the same as the Bernard Cribbins song of the same title about men digging up the road. RtS |
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28 Mar 01 - 10:43 AM (#427521) Subject: RE: 'Hole in the Ground' question From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler If it is called "Green Grass grew all around" it has been recorded by Peter Seeger and Tex Ritter among others and is listed as "trad", but this may be another song. RtS |
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28 Mar 01 - 11:02 AM (#427543) Subject: RE: 'Hole in the Ground' question From: Allan C. I have absolutely no clue as to the answer to the question. I just want to say that it is good to see you here again!
Best wishes to Tim also, Allan |
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28 Mar 01 - 11:36 AM (#427587) Subject: RE: 'Hole in the Ground' question From: MMario Disney lists it as traditional - so I would bet it is. |
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28 Mar 01 - 05:47 PM (#427914) Subject: RE: 'Hole in the Ground' question From: Bill D this is one of those songs that mutate. The concept is easy, but memorizing all the details isn't...so people change it and tweak it over & over...I know several versions, each quite different, but obviously the same idea and it is related to the old poem:
"Great fleas have smaller fleas,
Small fleas have larger fleas |
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28 Mar 01 - 05:56 PM (#427923) Subject: RE: 'Hole in the Ground' question From: Uncle_DaveO A related song which I sing as an alternative to The Greeen Grass Grew Around" is "There's a Hole in the Bottom of the Sea." Log in the hole, bump on the log, frog on the bump on the log, and so on. Kid audience LOVE these songs! DAve Oesterreich |
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29 Mar 01 - 09:30 AM (#428332) Subject: RE: 'Hole in the Ground' question From: Mrrzy These were old build-memory exercises from the days before writing, when you had to have a tremendous memory for the spoken word, since nobody could write their instructions down nor look them up again. Or so I've heard... The one I have by Ed McCurdy on his children's album is called The Green Grass Grew All Around, and it does have the hole in the ground, and the tree, the limb, the branch, the twig, the nest, the bird, the wing, the feather, the gnat, the eye, and the eyelash. No dirt, but I can add that in... |
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30 Mar 01 - 12:16 PM (#429304) Subject: RE: 'Hole in the Ground' question From: LR Mole Michael Cooney has a similar thing, about "Whoever has the good peanuts and giveth his neighbor none/He shall have none of my good peanuts when his good peanuts are gone (Refrain: Oh, won't it be joyful, joyful, joyful...when his good peanuts are gone.") Thus, the "memorizers" can follow the ever-more-technical and-desirable things that "whoever" has, and the littluns can join in on the "Oh, won't it be joyful" bit.On his family concert disc. (CD? Don't know.) |
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30 Mar 01 - 07:15 PM (#429638) Subject: RE: 'Hole in the Ground' question From: Bert Wow, I first heard that one in 1944. It's a very close relative of (Or perhaps I should say a version of) "The Rattling Bog". I learned it from my aunt who learned it herself as a child. I would say it's traditional". |
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31 Mar 01 - 12:49 AM (#429803) Subject: Green Grass Grew All Around From: Joe Offer Well, what I thought of first was the one that goes: Well, I wish I was a hole in the ground,...and than I remembered it was about a mole. (click) (also click here for fun) But the song you're talking about, Vic, is definitely "Green Grass Grew All Around." Here's the entry from the Traditional Ballad Index: Rattling Bog, TheDESCRIPTION: Cumulative song about the "great chain of being." Sample: "On this branch there was a twig/Rare twig, a rattling twig/Twig on the branch and the branch on the tree and the tree in the bog/Bog down in the valley-o." Most versions complete a circleAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1877 KEYWORDS: ritual cumulative nonballad FOUND IN: Britain(England(South),Scotland) Wales US(MW,SE,So) Canada(Mar,Newf) REFERENCES (6 citations): Randolph 459, "The Green Grass Grew All Round" (1 text) Sharp-100E 98, "The Tree in the Wood" (1 text, 1 tune) Sharp/Karpeles-80E 58, "The Tree in the Wood" (1 text, 1 tune) Kennedy 96, "An Wedhen War An Vre (The Tree on the Hill)" (1 Cornish text, 1 tune) Silber-FSWB, p. 391, "The Green Grass Grew All Around" (1 text) DT, RATLNBOG* ALTERNATE TITLES: The Green Grass Growing All Around The Endless Circle Notes: The Cornish words printed by Kennedy are by Talek, based on English texts with some Breton influence. - RBW File: ShH98 Go to the Ballad Search form The Ballad Index Copyright 2000 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. The Thom Parrot song called Hole in the Ground from the Best of Broadside collection has nothing to do with the song at hand, but it's a very powerful song about the Vietnam war. The American GI's befriend a Vietnamese kid who says his father lives in a "hole in the ground" (a bunker), and then the GI's blow up the bunker. -Joe Offer- |
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31 Mar 01 - 01:05 AM (#429814) Subject: ADD: Green Grass Grew All Around ^^ From: Joe Offer If you search the database for @cumulative, you will find several songs of this type - (click here). -Joe Offer- THE GREEN GRASS GREW ALL AROUND (traditional) There was a hole (there was a hole) in the middle of the ground (in the middle of the ground) The prettiest hole (the prettiest hole) that you ever did see (that you ever did see). Well, the hole in the ground And the green grass grew all around and around And the green grass grew all around. And in this hole there was a root... And on this root there was tree... And on this tree there was a branch... And on this branch there was twig...
And on this twig there was a nest... |
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05 May 08 - 08:20 PM (#2333700) Subject: RE: 'Hole in the Ground' question From: Joe_F Josh White sang it too. |
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06 May 08 - 10:03 AM (#2334028) Subject: RE: 'Hole in the Ground' question From: Abby Sale The Traditional Ballad Index reference only alludes to it but I'd bet "The Everlasting Circle" predates the American versions. It's well-known in UK and still sung there. Only info I have in hand is from Marrow Bones which gives collected by Gardiner of Cornwall in 1905. I like it as one of the rarish truly circular songs. To me it's a religious statement re the Circle (as opposed to the Cycle) of life. And it's slightly sexy. Text is fairly identical to American verrsions (note that the "on the dust mote there was a microbe" types of verses were intended as silliness for people who already knew the song in the Revival) but adding: Now from this feather there came a bed Now to this bed there came a maid And to this maid there came a youth Now by this youth was planted a seed And from this seed there came a tree. |
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12 Aug 10 - 05:29 PM (#2963869) Subject: RE: 'Hole in the Ground' question From: GUEST,lil momma n california idk who originally sings it but my boyz love it thier 5 & 6 ! |
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18 Dec 16 - 09:41 PM (#3827284) Subject: RE: 'Hole in the Ground' question From: GUEST,Thom Parrott Thanks for the mention. Not the same song. Mine is about something that happened during the Vietnam War. |