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31 Mar 01 - 08:47 AM (#429924) Subject: Working on the Railroad From: GUEST,Sheila Who wrote, or might have written, "I've Been Working on the Railroad"? All I can find is "traditional American folk song." Any background information? Thanks, Sheila |
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31 Mar 01 - 11:17 AM (#429978) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: GUEST,Black Diamond-C Acording to RISE UP SINGING this song first appeared in print in I made the editorial corrections. |
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31 Mar 01 - 11:59 AM (#429994) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: CRANKY YANKEE Sheila, I know the song as "The Levee Song" (also called, "I've been workin' on the levee") First verse goes I When I lived down in Mobile town, Workin' on the levee. All day long roll cotton down, workin' on the levee. II But now, I'm workin' on the Railroad, All the livelong day. etc. etc. etc.
Following is a quote from, "Gonna Sing My Head Off", "American Folk songs for Children" by Kathleen Krull. |
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31 Mar 01 - 12:21 PM (#430008) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: Amos Don't see how anyone would want to be in the kitchen with Dinah if she were a train. And the euphemistic expression of being in the kitchen with Dinah strumming on the old banjo, to my dirty old mind, has sexual connotations. It was also perfectly routine for a bell or gong or horn (or a steam whistle) to be used to call gangs in for midday rations in lots of man-labor operations; so anyone tired of swinging a hammer or shovel might be inclined to wish that the kitchen Mother (for whom Dinah is a normal enough name) would call him and the rest of the tarriers in for a break and some chow. Cf. Nelly, the Belle of Blue Lake, in Warner's "Township 19". And the earlier sad Irish tale of getting "six months hard" for "courting in the kitchen", in the song of that name. Kitchens have traditionally been a good place for hired help to make hay because the houseowner or lord of manse or whoever usually don't come by. Just my $.02. Regards, A |
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31 Mar 01 - 01:03 PM (#430028) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: GUEST,Roll&Go-C Creep Warning! Ay, yi, yi, yi, In Chili they do it for China; Let's have another verse That's worse than the other verse, And waltz me around again, Dinah! I like the "I've been Working on the Levee" theory. |
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31 Mar 01 - 02:56 PM (#430102) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: Joe Offer Here's the entry from the Traditional Ballad Index. -Joe Offer- I've Been Working on the RailroadDESCRIPTION: The singer describes working on the railroad "all the live-long day" and waiting for Dinah to blow the horn. He describes someone being "in the kitchen with Dinah, strumming on the old banjo."AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1894 (Carmina Princetonia) KEYWORDS: railroading work courting FOUND IN: US REFERENCES (8 citations): Cohen-LSRail, pp. 537-542, "I've Been Working on the Railroad" (1 text, 1 tune) BrownIII 234, "Working on the Railroad" (1 text plus two unrelated fragments, probably of "Roll on the Ground (Big Ball's in Town)"; the "A" text is a jumble starting with this song but followed up by what is probably a "Song of All Songs" fragment) Scarborough-NegroFS, p. 248, "I've Been Working on the Railroad" (1 text, with the first verse being this and the second being probably some sort of courting song) MHenry-Appalachians, p. 81, "I've Been Working on the Railroad" (1 text) Opie-Game 130, "Dinah" (2 texts, 1 tune) Silber-FSWB, p. 103, "I've Been Working on the Railroad" (1 text, including some parody verses) Fuld-WFM, p. 209, "I've Been Working on the Railroad -- (The Eyes of Texas)"; p. 513, "Someone's in the Kitchen with Dinah" DT, WORKRAIL Roud #12606? RECORDINGS: Blankenship Family, "Working on the Railroad" (Victor 23583, 1931) Art Mooney, "I've Been Working on the Railroad" (Vogue R-713-32, n.d. but prob. 1930s) Sandhills Sixteen, "I've Been Working on the Railroad" (Victor 20905, 1927) Pete Seeger, "I've Been Working on the Railroad" (on PeteSeeger21) (on PeteSeeger32) SAME TUNE: We've Enlisted in the Navy (Pankake-PHCFSB, p. 151) ALTERNATE TITLES: Levee Song NOTES: Although this is surely a composed song, Fuld cannot find any references to the "Railroad" verses prior to 1894 (when it was twice published as "The Levee Song," and in both instances associated with Princeton). No composer is listed in the extant materials. The "Dinah" verses are dated by Fuld to the period before 1850. How they came together is a mystery; they don't fit all that well -- but as I've never heard the halves done separately (though Scarborough's text consists only of the first part, and the Cohen text, from the Blankenship family omits the"Dinah Won't You Blow" stanza, substituting something Cohen thinks is a school rouser), I keep them together here. Cohen cites Theodore Raph as claiming the song became popular in 1881. But Cohen himself agrees with Fuld's 1894 date. Probably it will take a much more detailed study than any undertaken so far to finally settle the matter. - RBW Opie-Game: "'Someone's in the House with Dinah' was sung by Ethiopian minstrels in the 1840s and 1850s, but with a different tune from that known today." - BS Last updated in version 2.6 File: FSWB209 Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2015 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
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31 Mar 01 - 03:05 PM (#430109) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: GUEST,Bruce O. Norn Cohen, 'Long Steel Rail', notes Theodore Raphs compendium of American popular songs as saying 1881 is the year it gained widespread popularity, and was modified from an older black railroad worker's levee song. |
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31 Mar 01 - 07:40 PM (#430281) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: Stewie Bruce, Cohen goes on to say, however, that there is 'no evidence for the song's currency prior to its first publication' in 1894 and that of 'its assumed earlier existence in oral tradition among black laborers we know nothing'. Further: 'If it circulated orally before its appearance in print, then the generally accepted derivation of the railroad song from the levee song may be correct'. --Stewie. |
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31 Mar 01 - 08:00 PM (#430291) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: GUEST,leeneia Y'all are saying old familiar musicology things and ignoring how unique this song is. Can you think of any workingman's song that has three entirely different tunes strung artfully together, as occurs in "I've Been Working..." Also, what about Carmina Princetonia? Isn't that a strange name for a folk song collection? There must be a connection to Princeton and to an editor who was cultivated enough to use the term "Carmina" for a song collection. I think the song was cobbled together to be used in a show at Princeton. The folk original probably stopped at "Dinah blow your horn." Finally, that strange word "livelong" Have you ever heard it used anywhere else? I haven't. I suspect the unknown editor made it up to substitute for "goddamn" or some other unacceptable term. |
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31 Mar 01 - 08:36 PM (#430298) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: Stewie 'Carmina Princetonia' was a college songbook. The 1894 one was its 8th edition. Since the song did not appear in the 7th edition in 1890, Cohen suggests that it probably became widely popular in the early 1890s - 'at least among the college crowd'. 'Livelong' is a perfectly respectable word that dates back at least to the 12th century (according to my dictionary). --Stewie. |
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31 Mar 01 - 11:02 PM (#430344) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: GUEST,Bruce O. Perhaps Norm Cohen will turn up an older version. He's working on a bibliography of American songbooks now. He's no longer a chemical kineticist (his real job, that few folklorists knew about). |
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31 Mar 01 - 11:16 PM (#430349) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: Joe Offer Hi, Bruce - I spent my last three weeks of full-time employment on assignment at the same place, and I kept thinking how cool it was that Norm Cohen had also worked there - the Aerospace Corporation in El Segundo, California. -Joe Offer- |
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01 Apr 01 - 10:00 AM (#430517) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: GUEST,Bruce O. Norm Cohen was head of the Chemical Kinetics there, while secretary of the John Edwards Folklore foundation, and writing lots of articles and reviews for the Journal of American Folklore. |
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01 Apr 01 - 10:28 AM (#430534) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: GUEST,Sheila Thanks, one and all, for erudition and enlightenment. Sheila |
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03 Apr 01 - 06:51 PM (#432528) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: GUEST,Bruce O. Got a look at Theodore Raph's book today. OK if song is well known, but otherwise his notes are garbage first class! I wouldn't take anything from him. |
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03 Apr 01 - 06:55 PM (#432537) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: GUEST,Bruce O. The absolutely worst book on songs is S. J. Adair Fitz-gerald's 'Stories of Famous Songs'. |
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04 Apr 01 - 06:10 PM (#433319) Subject: RE: Working on the Railroad From: Chicken Charlie I had a dog, his name was Bill, A-workin' on the levee. My dog is gone, but I'm here still, A-workin' on the levee. Anybody else heard that verse?? Now Leeneia--OED (Oxford English Dictionary) traces "livelong" back to the year 1578, which makes it a nice Elizabethanism to be fossilized in the Sunny South. On my way upstairs to retrieve that tome, I remembered that the word also occurs in Shakespeare--very early on in "Julius Caesar." Alas, poor supposition; I knew it well. Also, "Shortnin' Bread" works as a counter-melody to the "Dinah won't you blow" part. When was such erudition last exchanged? Not since Thomas Jefferson talked to himself. But Dinah as a train?? I can't relate. |
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17 Nov 07 - 08:38 PM (#2196381) Subject: RE: Origin: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: mg The Chinese tended to come from west to east, hitting the mountainous areas. They were so good at the mountain blasting from one section of China that they kept bringing them over...Irish, including my grandfather and great-uncles were heavily involved coming west. Many groups, including African American, Slovak..I almost want to say Cuban..some group you wouldn't think of..I am not sure..anyway, I am sure there were Poles and Greeks and almost everyone you could think of who just landed on the shores of America. mg |
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17 Nov 07 - 10:30 PM (#2196442) Subject: RE: Origin: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: Q (Frank Staplin) More information on the song in thread 65298: Railroad Dinah Levee Song from Carmina princetonia posted in thread 50253: Masato post |
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17 Nov 07 - 10:39 PM (#2196445) Subject: RE: Origin: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: Nick E It seems to me the eastern railroads may have been built by a very different group, and in a different time than the western rails.ANd the SOngs may have migrated with the work. Sounds like a question for ANTHROPOLOGY MAN! Anthropologist will stick their noses into anything. |
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13 Jul 08 - 07:51 AM (#2387709) Subject: RE: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: GUEST,Bob Coltman Dinah's horn is not a locomotive horn, which would be a whistle in any case. It is a dinner horn, similar to a boat horn, traditionally used by cooks to call workers in from distant fields. Loud and raucous, and when you hear it, you know dinner's on. In answer to Chicken Charlie (wherever he may be after these seven years) I'm going to start a new thread on "Workin On the Levee." It is a distinct song, though it seems to have gotten entangled with "I've Been Working on the Railroad" back in late minstrel days. Bob |
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13 Jul 08 - 01:52 PM (#2387871) Subject: RE: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: Q (Frank Staplin) Workin' on the levee- waitin' for the Robert E. Lee- Sorry- I'll go back to my hidy-hole now. Masato posted "Working on the Levee" in thread 50253. A song that has got lost in the shuffle. |
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13 Jul 08 - 06:06 PM (#2387990) Subject: RE: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: John on the Sunset Coast I always thought it was 'standing on the levee, waitin' for the Robert E Lee.' |
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13 Jul 08 - 08:16 PM (#2388074) Subject: RE: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: GUEST,Gerry I thought it was, "standing on the levee, watching all the girls go by." |
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13 Jul 08 - 09:05 PM (#2388106) Subject: RE: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: Joe_F "Old Black Joe" also harmonizes, more or less, with "I've Been Working...", with the feature that "Dinah, won't you blow" coincides with "I'm coming". |
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16 Sep 08 - 11:57 AM (#2442115) Subject: RE: Origin: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: peregrina Isn't it 'railway'.. to rhyme with 'day'? (And that's a big clue about origin?) |
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16 Sep 08 - 12:00 PM (#2442122) Subject: RE: Origin: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: mg Everyone sings railroad that I ahve heard. mg |
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16 Sep 08 - 12:01 PM (#2442124) Subject: RE: Origin: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: meself Doesn't sound remotely like an African-American work song to me - more like a minstrel-show-vaudeville-music-hall type of thing ... but then, what do I know? (And I've always heard 'road' rather than 'way' ... ) |
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16 Sep 08 - 12:57 PM (#2442192) Subject: RE: Origins: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: Joe Offer If you look above you'll see that the best guess as to the origin of "I've Been Working on the Railroad" is that it was published as "Levee Song" in the 1894 edition of Carmina Princetonia - although portions of the song came earlier. Masato posted the 1894 lyrics in this thread. Take a look at the crosslinked threads listed at the top of this page. I guess you could say this is three songs linked together: "I've Been Working on the Railroad," "Someone's In the Kitchen With Dinah," and "Dinah Won't You Blow Your Horn." Another interesting aspect of the song is that it's a relatively complex song, and yet everybody seems to know it with exactly the same lyrics and melody. I wonder when and how it achieved such universality. -Joe- |
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16 Sep 08 - 01:12 PM (#2442212) Subject: RE: Origins: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: Nerd Peregrina: It's a weak ABAB rhyme scheme. "Day" in the second line rhymes with "away" in the fourth line, not with the first and third lines. |
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16 Sep 08 - 02:55 PM (#2442326) Subject: RE: Origins: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: Q (Frank Staplin) Gee! I always knew it as "The Eyes of Texas." (OK, back to my cage). Nothing found earlier than "The Levee Song," 1894, as noted by Joe. In addition to the printing in Carmina princetonia, sheet music to "The Levee Song" was published by Hinds, Noble and Eldridge, 1900 (note in Scarborough). Most of the verses sung with it are add-ons, from "Down on the Ohio," "Down Went Maginty," "In the Evening by the Moonlight," "Hear dem Bells," etc. (Noted in no. 234, Work Songs, The Frank C. Brown Collection of North Carolina Folklore, vol. 3). Neither Newman I. White, American Negro Folk Songs, nor Dorothy Scarborough, On the Trail of Negro Folk-Songs, considered it to be of Negro origin. Scarborough recorded an add-on verse, from minstrel shows- Sing me a song of the city, (Roll dem cotton bales) Darky ain't half so happy As when he's out of jail. Mobile for its oyster shells, Boston for its beans, Charleston for its cotton bales, But for yaller gals- New Orleans! |
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03 Mar 10 - 08:03 PM (#2855464) Subject: RE: Origins: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: Joe_F Q: The following version of that appears in The New Song Fest: Sing a song of cities, Roll that cotton bale. Roustabout am happy, Long's he out of jail. Norfolk for its oyster shells, Boston for its beans, Charleston for its rice and corn, But for lassies, New Orleans. I like to sing that as the refrain with "Only an old beer bottle" & "Man on top of woman" as stanzas -- a melange for which there is no warrant whatever. |
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04 Mar 10 - 07:26 AM (#2855724) Subject: RE: Origins: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: masato sakurai See Carmina Princetonia (1900 edition). "Levee Song" is on pp. 24-25. |
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14 Jul 10 - 02:19 PM (#2944993) Subject: RE: Origins: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: GUEST I have heard the verse about the dog named bill, as a matter of fact a posted the complete lyrics to a version I have on another thread. |
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09 May 12 - 08:33 AM (#3348618) Subject: RE: Origins: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: GUEST,cool kid im still alittle confused but i can deal with it |
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09 May 12 - 10:41 AM (#3348668) Subject: RE: Origins: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: GUEST,Songbob "Someone's In De Kitchen Wid Dinah" was a Minstrel Show song of nearly no appeal -- it's almost a cantefable, in that it has spoken parts, and is essentially an argument between two suitors of Dinah, whoever she is. It's full of the N word and the worst stereotypes of African-Americans you can imagine. It's almost as bad as the "coon" songs of the 1880s-90s, when the happy-go-lucky image of contented darkies who lub dem dar massa gave way to chicken-stealin', razor-cutting, dangerous Negro images, which I think are more accurately "these-are-poor-folk-like-us-and-compete-for-our-jobs" images. In Minstrel show days, African Americans were child-like and nearly innocent. And more or less safe, since they were confined to Massa's keeping. After 1865, and particularly after Reconstruction ended, freedmen were competitors, and much less safe. So the imagery changed to match. In any case, the original "Someone's In De Kitchen Wid Dinah" does not actually appear in "I've Been Working" as such. There's certainly no repeated chorus lines like in the latter song; it's possible someone found the lyrics to "Kitchen" and, not knowing the tune, incorporated it into "Railroad" -- but just one line. It's even possible that the old Minstrel song was known by some in the college community, and the reference in "Railroad" is just a reference to a shared knowledge; sort of like the references to "the tables down at Morey's" in the "Whiffenpoof Song" -- but this is just speculation on my part. That's all I know. Bob Clayton |
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09 May 12 - 01:10 PM (#3348742) Subject: RE: Origins: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: PHJim Dinah's Railroad - Steph Yates My brother Bob wrote a song with the same changes as I've Been Working on the Railroad and here's his daughter Steph singing it. |
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09 May 12 - 01:30 PM (#3348756) Subject: RE: Origins: I've Been Working on the Railroad From: Q (Frank Staplin) The verses- Dinah won't you blow, Dinah won't you blow, Dinah won't you blow your horn (ho-or-n)- Someone's in the kitchen with Dinah, Someone's in the kitchen I know, I know, Someone's in the kitchen with Dinah, Strummin' on the old banjo. Were often played by the band and sung as an upbeat addition after "The Eyes of Texas" at football games at the University of Texas, 1940s-1950s. Alum. 1953 |
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19 Mar 16 - 03:09 PM (#3779861) Subject: Old Joe, or Somebody in the House with Dinah From: GUEST Old Joe, or Somebody in the House with Dinah |