|
05 Apr 01 - 12:14 PM (#433798) Subject: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Steve Parkes ... yes, as in "Tell her/him to make me a cambric shirt". It has come to my attention that just about everybody who came after Simon & Garfunkel pronounces the word with a short "a", as in "bag". Well, you're wrong! It's properly pronounced with a long "a" -- as in "Cambridge", just in case anyone wants to tell me the rule for a vowel followed by two consonants. I invite comments from the floor. Steve P.S. You could always check your dictionary -- or would that spoil the fun? |
|
05 Apr 01 - 12:20 PM (#433803) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Les from Hull So how come the river that the bridge is over is called the Cam (short a), eh? If a vowel followed by two consonents is pronounced as short - well how do you pronounce consonent? And I'm never wrong! (Sometimes people misunderstand me, though.) Hehehe. Les |
|
05 Apr 01 - 12:23 PM (#433809) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: GUEST,#1 How stupid of me. I thought it was pronounced like it was spelled. |
|
05 Apr 01 - 12:36 PM (#433818) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Noreen Well, well! (...putting my dictionary back on the shelf) |
|
05 Apr 01 - 12:55 PM (#433842) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Les from Hull And another thing, Steve - some of us know only too well where that nice Mr Simon got that song from! Les |
|
05 Apr 01 - 12:58 PM (#433847) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: nutty Its a Yorkshire song so the "a" is pronounced as a flat vowel( all yorkshire vowels are flat) so "cambric" is cam - brick not as Steve suggests Came - brick |
|
05 Apr 01 - 01:06 PM (#433856) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Bert camber, Camberwell, camping, Camden Town.... |
|
05 Apr 01 - 01:13 PM (#433862) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Les from Hull It's called cambric 'cos it comes from Cambrai. Mind you, we don't do so well in pronouncing denim (which comes from Nimes - de Nimes). I reckon you can pronounce it anyway you want. Try it out next time you're shopping in a gentlemen's outfitters (suits you, Sir) or a trendy boutique ('ere 'ave we got any cambric shirts, Tracey?). Les |
|
05 Apr 01 - 01:35 PM (#433892) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Morticia Well in popular usage is the short a pronunciation; whether the song or the material itself is under discussion...I've never heard anyone say Camebric. Mind you, I seldon hear people say butter or water, ( they say bu'er or wa'er) but that doesn't make it right I suppose. |
|
05 Apr 01 - 01:39 PM (#433898) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Bert An, I orlwais fort i' was bu'u aw wa'u |
|
05 Apr 01 - 01:45 PM (#433908) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Hawker So have the Cornish been pronouncing Camborne wrong? as in Cam born when I now understand it should be Came born! OOO Er! LOL Lucy P.S. How does one say scone? |
|
05 Apr 01 - 02:43 PM (#433976) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Morticia This one says it with a short o, to rhyme with gone but it's regional I think .What about mongrel? First syllable pronounced as o or u? |
|
05 Apr 01 - 02:58 PM (#433987) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Uncle_DaveO Mahngrel Dave Oesterreich |
|
05 Apr 01 - 03:02 PM (#433991) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Little Hawk Now I find out, 20 years after I quit singing that particular song...(sigh) - LH |
|
05 Apr 01 - 05:07 PM (#434117) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Geoff the Duck Being born and bred in Yorkshire, there is no such thing as a long "A" it is always pronounced "short" as in 'addock (a battered fish), 'alibut (a fish which isn't usually battered) 'alifax (a nearby town), which can be contrasted with the short U as in 'ull (where Les comes from) I hope that you are now enlightened! Quack! Geoff the Duck |
|
05 Apr 01 - 05:24 PM (#434138) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: McGrath of Harlow Cam off it Parkie! |
|
05 Apr 01 - 08:40 PM (#434268) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Bill D scOHnes...not scAHnes....but I'm from Kansas |
|
05 Apr 01 - 09:27 PM (#434289) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Sorcha Ok, I say "kam'brik", "skawhn", & "mawn'grul"---but I said Cull'oden for years before I learned it was Cull-aw'den. How about "chambary"? Is it related to cambric? |
|
05 Apr 01 - 11:13 PM (#434357) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: sophocleese 'chalcedony' anyone? |
|
05 Apr 01 - 11:26 PM (#434364) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Sorcha shall-se-do'-nee is what my rock shop person says...... |
|
05 Apr 01 - 11:31 PM (#434367) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Matt_R I say it with the hard CH. Both Earendil & The Mariner in "Errantry" had chalcedony in the helms. |
|
05 Apr 01 - 11:56 PM (#434379) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Sorcha Any way you say it, it is a neat stone........includes "blood stone"...a beautiful green with red inclusions.....cool stuff. |
|
05 Apr 01 - 11:57 PM (#434380) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) According to both Merriam Webster and the Oxford English Dictionary, cambric is pronounced came'-brick. Common usage generally comes to the fore and I suspect cam-bric will be added as an alternate before long. Look at what happened to cov-ert, now generally pronounced co-vert (which makes no sense). At least cambric comes from a Flemish word which begins "Kam-." The academic bent is prevalent in the Oxford Dictionary, and also in the Merriam Webster, but the latter has more alternates from other parts of the British Islands and the USA and Canada. The Oxford, in current editions, is going the same way (perhaps they will no longer call serviette vulgar usage, since most middle class English and many Canadians use the word). |
|
06 Apr 01 - 06:02 AM (#434484) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Steve, there's probably only Mr Red and me that pronounce things the same as thee (Rana probably sounds Canadian by now!). Herself always scores a point when I lapse into a southern long "a" as in bath, but I think I'll be saying "garridge" for garage to my grave! Tara each (off on hols in an hour!) RtS |
|
06 Apr 01 - 06:29 AM (#434491) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Julie B I agree with Dicho. It's common usage that counts. If I'm comfortable singing 'cam-bric' (as opposed to came-bric) and I know my audience will be happy to hear it that way, then that's the way to sing it. If I were singing it to an audience where most folk thought 'came-bric' was the normal pronunciation, I'd probably do it that way. Language has never been, and will never be, set in stone. We can use it to either bond with others or alienate them. If I sing came-bric, most of the audience will be thinking "poor woman... nice song, but a pity she doesn't even know how to pronounce 'cam-bric'!" and if I pedantically insist on explaining that MY pronunciation is the only correct one, before/after the song, then audience alienation is probably assured! |
|
06 Apr 01 - 06:40 AM (#434496) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Dave the Gnome Cambric sounds French to me anyway - should probably be pronounced 'Cahmbree'! Scone rhymes with gone around here. I have been told it should be pronounced as in the town in Scotland from where the said delicacy came - ie. Scone, pronounced in best Scottish style, scoon! I dunno if that is right or not though. Anyway, must go. Got a job to do on my cameshaft.... Cheers Dave the Gnome |
|
06 Apr 01 - 06:41 AM (#434497) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Hyperabid I believe the English for comes from the Flemish Kamerijk which is the Flemish form of Cambrai...(We had a long alliance with the Dutch and other lowlanders during the 16th century whilst the Spanish and Portugese were busy telling people that all protestants needed a petrol enema). Whilst I would not pretend to understand lowland languages most of the vowel sounds are short - which would seem to fit the common usage of the word ion the UK. Hyper |
|
06 Apr 01 - 08:39 AM (#434548) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Steve Parkes I think the point is that the word isn't in common usage any more! When it was, it would have been pronounced "properly"; I guess that Martin Carthy (it was him, wasn't it?) wasn't familiar with the word before he learned the song. Maybe we can get him to tell us? I can't rememer how the late Dave Philips used to pronounce it; he always claimed that Paul Simon pinched the song from him at the Jug O'Punch before he got famous. Steve |
|
06 Apr 01 - 10:43 AM (#434623) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: GUEST,UB Dan That's EYe-gore, Dr Frankensteen |
|
06 Apr 01 - 11:00 PM (#435019) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Mark Cohen Well, now, it seems to me that if you go by the common English pronunciation of other French- or Flemish-derived names (Cholmondeley, for instance)....the correct pronunciation of "cambric" would have to be "CAR". Or maybe, for those who want to use the long A, "CAKE". Aloha, Mark |
|
06 Apr 01 - 11:32 PM (#435036) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Peg Mark: LOL!!!!! love it. I learned it "came-brick." There is not all that much difference when you're singing it after all...
|
|
07 Apr 01 - 01:08 AM (#435068) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Bert People in SE England usually pronounce scone to rhyme with cone or bone. People further north usually pronounce it scon to thryme with gone. And people in Devon serve them with 'clotted cream', a delicacy rarely found in The USA. |
|
07 Apr 01 - 04:46 AM (#435103) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: GUEST,JTT I've said camm-brick all my life, and worn the stuff too; I say sconn, and yumm them up with lashings of fresh country butter and raspberry jam. Mmmmmm. |
|
07 Apr 01 - 07:01 AM (#435121) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: McGrath of Harlow I've always said scone to rhyme with bun, which is how my mother said it. But I've never met antyone else who said it that way. |
|
07 Apr 01 - 06:14 PM (#435420) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Greyeyes It is of course pronounced scon, and the clotted cream should be spread on before the jam. |
|
08 Apr 01 - 06:47 AM (#435670) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Penny S. We had the scawn discussion before! Penny |
|
08 Apr 01 - 10:14 AM (#435730) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: sophocleese okay word lovers how do you pronounce "capo"? |
|
08 Apr 01 - 06:45 PM (#435989) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) "Capo" is pronounced Kaw-poh, both the music thing-a-ma-bobby and the mafia head. Doesn't anyone use a decent dictionary anymore? |
|
08 Apr 01 - 06:56 PM (#435996) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: sophocleese Dicho, most people that I know say CAY-po. It may supposed to be pronounced Kaw-po but that ain't the way that I learned it. I thought it a very similar situation with cambric. I have also heard chalcedony pronounced chalSEdonee, kalKEdonee. and kalSEdonee, all from geographers. Correct pronunciation is a flexible term. |
|
08 Apr 01 - 07:25 PM (#436018) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Snuffy kappo |
|
08 Apr 01 - 07:33 PM (#436022) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Sorcha For the guitar clamp, I say kaa-po. For the mafia Don or D.C. al Capo, I say khah-po......don't know why. I know the latter two are Italian, is a guitar capo from the Italian also? |
|
08 Apr 01 - 08:01 PM (#436030) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) In my earlier note I indicated, in essence, that pronounciation in English as she is spoke differs from recommended dictionary usage for many words. Kaw-poh is given in both the OED and Merriam Webster for ca-po. Cap-po reminds me of the recent change in pronounciation of covert, from cov-ert to co-vert, an example I gave. A funny one here in Canada is niche. This word was dragged into English by Randall Cotgrave in 1611 with the pronounciation nitch (still in the OED) from Italian nicchia, and populariz(s)ed through a hit play (1614) by Ben Jonson. Americans generally say nish. Canadians often say neesh, trying to sound French. The word commonly is used in English to indicate a person's position or function, a meaning not envisioned by the originator, nor members of the French Academy. Everything changes, especially in an agglomerative language such as (like) English. In the local paper today is a letter from a teacher objecting to the verb "fax." She has been out-of-date since 1940-something. But already "Email" is replacing fax. By the way, what was the word that started this thread? |
|
09 Apr 01 - 12:29 AM (#436145) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: GUEST,Mark Cohen in Kona I say "nitch", and the last I looked I was still an American. But then again, I also eat ghoti. Aloha, Mark |
|
09 Apr 01 - 03:02 AM (#436186) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: GUEST How about those Boston Seltics, anyway? |
|
09 Apr 01 - 05:43 AM (#436209) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Dave the Gnome Bit of controversy eh? Ah - that reminds me. When did controversy change from con-TROV-ersy, like when I was at school to CONTRA-versy like the UK newsreaders saw now? Cheers (NOT said like chairs) Dave the Gnome |
|
09 Apr 01 - 06:11 AM (#436215) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Gervase Where I'm from covert is pronnounce kuvva, as in "...away to the coverts to seek for a hare". |
|
09 Apr 01 - 07:36 AM (#436231) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: mkebenn Dave, we don't need to hear about your came-shaft. Mike |
|
09 Apr 01 - 08:57 PM (#436960) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Geoff the Duck Mr Cohen - I presume that you mean ghoti - pronounced "FISH". |
|
09 Apr 01 - 10:40 PM (#437031) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Mark Cohen Mais bien sur, mon cher canard! Mark |
|
09 Apr 01 - 11:55 PM (#437078) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: GUEST,leeneia Where else but the Mudcat would there be 50 postings about the pronunciation of an obsolete word (cambric) that nobody pronounces anymore? |
|
10 Apr 01 - 05:51 AM (#437191) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Steve Parkes There's a town (or village? Correct me, please!) near Wolverhampton called Coven, pr. COE-ven where I come from, but I don't know how the natives say it. My home town Walsall is pr. WORE-sl at home, but WALL-SALL (rhymes with "wall", both syllables equally weighted) by foreigners, and nmy daughter's chap lives in Rugely, pr. RUDGE-lee by natives, REWDGE-lee by incomers and ROUGE-lee (to rhyme with the French "rouge") by people who say "Eye-BEETH-a", and presumably can't be expected to know any better. Over to you, Mr Red! Steve |
|
10 Apr 01 - 11:12 AM (#437348) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Trevor Worrow Steve, I'm from Smerrick originally but I live near Shoesbury now, in a village called Ratchup, which is spelt Ratlinghope. I thought 'fish' was spelt g-h-o-t-i-o |
|
10 Apr 01 - 11:24 AM (#437360) Subject: RE: BS: Pronunciation of 'cambric' From: Steve Parkes Yo bay wrung, aer kid! |