|
09 Apr 01 - 03:38 PM (#436617) Subject: Original =Best Songs? From: LR Mole I imagine this has been brought up before, but is it considered more of a gift to compose a new song than to interpret one that already exists? As a non-songwriter,I can only do those written by other people, but this seems lower on the merit ladder. On the other hand, there seems to be an awful lot of heard-this stuff, in the "original" market. On the third hand, some diferent-for-the-sake-of-difference pieces aren't accessible to me at all.Hmmm? |
|
09 Apr 01 - 03:45 PM (#436626) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: MMario depends on the circumstances. I don't consider one "better" then the other - Some people have one talent - other people have another. A song comes alive and vibrant for one performer - dies a horrible death for another - and the second may technically be the better performer... |
|
09 Apr 01 - 03:52 PM (#436631) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Bert Generally existing, PROVEN, songs are better than speculative Singer/Songwriter stuff. I say this as a Singer/Songwriter whose aim in life is to write at least one song that will be remebered. So hold your head up and sing proudly. Also there are thousands of good songs out there that nobody remembers anymore. Look here Bert. |
|
09 Apr 01 - 04:03 PM (#436641) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: MMario speaking of which - BERT! do you have dots for "Plastic flower seeds?" |
|
09 Apr 01 - 04:28 PM (#436660) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Murray MacLeod There is a huge amount of forgettable crap generated by singer-songwriters these days. Admittedly nor everyone can be Richard Thompson or Paul Simon, but pleeeeeze..... Having said that, once in a while a songwriter will come up with a song which just blows you away. One such, a simple, lovely song that I just can't get out of my head is by Cindy Mangsen, called "Sunrise". Actually, we need a thread on relatively unknown modern songs wnich deserve to be better known. Murray |
|
09 Apr 01 - 04:58 PM (#436712) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Bert Don't have the tadpoles MMario, but If you PM you snail mail address I'll send you a recording. Thanks for remembering. |
|
09 Apr 01 - 06:09 PM (#436789) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: McGrath of Harlow That's a very handy site bert!
Hunting out a good song that people won't have come across, but that deserves to be sung is in many ways the same skill as singing a song you've written; the really difficult thing is to be able to sing a song everybody thinks they know and disregard, and make people hear it for the first time. |
|
09 Apr 01 - 06:10 PM (#436793) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Giac Hey, I love that song, Bert. After you did it on Mudcat Radio the other night, I got the words out of the DT and sang it for some little friends. They loved it, too. Mary |
|
09 Apr 01 - 06:17 PM (#436803) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Sorcha Toss up for me.Granted, there is lots of garbage being written, but there probably always has been. What if there weren't EVER any new songs? That would be very sad. We also don't know how much garbage did NOT survive.......all songs have to be "written" at some point. |
|
09 Apr 01 - 06:19 PM (#436809) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Matt_R I have a problem...what if your main concentration is folkifying copywritten material? This is why I could never do albums or anything. I would be paying royalties out my nose for copywritten songs that most people don't even know. |
|
09 Apr 01 - 06:30 PM (#436824) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Micca well, I can vouch for one thing, to sing a song you wrote and have someone come up afterwards and say, "I liked that song do you know who wrote it, as I would like to sing it." is a very special feeling |
|
09 Apr 01 - 08:50 PM (#436955) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Paul G. My 2 cents as a singer/songwriter...I take as much joy from performing a good arangement of somebody else's work as from performing my own. The performance and the audience response is the thing, no matter who wrote the tune. Both are a gift. pg |
|
10 Apr 01 - 12:31 AM (#437104) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: GUEST,Sarah2 (at work) ditto what Paul G says. Sarah |
|
10 Apr 01 - 02:45 AM (#437140) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Stewie I'll buy, unheard, any CD that Roy Bailey cares to put out [I hope 'Coda' isn't his last]. I don't think he has written any songs himself - I haven't heard them if he has. Magnificent interpreter. He must have waded through oceans of shit to come up consistently with the gems that he has. I think it was Professor Child who said that the broadside ballads were a 'veritable dunghill' from which the occasional gem could be found. God help him if he were confronted with the deluge from 20th/21st century singer/songwriters - but a surprising number of gems may still be found. --Stewie. |
|
10 Apr 01 - 10:29 AM (#437319) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Gary T I, like most of us I imagine, run into many more people (myself included) who sing/play songs than people who write them. Songwriting thus appears to be a rarer skill than singing/playing, and that can make it seem to be a greater gift. But I must say, I seldom run into a really good "home-grown" song, and I have more appreciation for a well-rendered cover than for an original clunker. So I don't see songwriting, in and of itself, as a necessarily greater gift than singing/playing. Yet while any number of folks can do a commendable job of performing others' work, presumably only one individual could have written that gem of a song that is widely admired. That is a rare and noble talent. |
|
10 Apr 01 - 11:02 AM (#437340) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: GUEST I write my own songs and cover many Traditional songs. I find that I have to write 10 to come up with 1 good one. There are many great songs in the world and if no one plays them they go away. Too many folks don't display good judgement with original material. Even legendary song writers write weak material. I once heard a performer, I forget who, say, "I wrote this next one , I don't write all that many songs. The world has enough great songs and plenty of bad ones too, I don't need to add any more bad ones." Words to live by. |
|
10 Apr 01 - 06:28 PM (#437649) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie) I don't consider a song I made up to be "A Song" until I hear someone else sing it. That's so thrilling! |
|
10 Apr 01 - 06:32 PM (#437654) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Bert Good point kytrad, but that severely diminishes the number of songs that I have written! ;-) |
|
10 Apr 01 - 06:39 PM (#437662) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: McGrath of Harlow Great when someone compliments you on a song, and you have to congress it was one of your own, as Micca said.
But it can be good too when they compliment you and assume it was one of your own, and you tell them written by someone universally recognised as a great songwriter - and they thought it was one of yours. (The same if it's a traditional song they hadn't come across before.) And the best thing is to walk into a room and someone is singing one of yours, and they don't know. |
|
11 Apr 01 - 12:17 AM (#437854) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Bert ...someone is singing one of yours, and they don't know.... Ah! I've not got there yet McGrath. Still you write better songs than I do ------ You Rotten bastard -----*BG* Bert. |
|
11 Apr 01 - 12:30 AM (#437861) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Amergin Hey, Bert, I'll always remember you for Size Doesn't Matter..... Oh, Mcgrath, if that ever happened to me, I would die of shock....but I would die happy.... |
|
11 Apr 01 - 12:32 AM (#437864) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Bert Thanks 'ginbuddy. You're my friend for life. Bert (Gawd I plugged that one enough didn't I?) |
|
11 Apr 01 - 12:39 AM (#437868) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Amergin I don't know...I always saw it as your personal anthem.... |
|
11 Apr 01 - 10:08 AM (#438034) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Jim the Bart Back in the early 70's, writing your own was the mark of a serious artist. Being a "cover" artist, except in the case of the established folk/trad canon, lumped you in with the "Holiday Inn" crowd. Which is why, to this day, I don't know any Jim Croce songs. But I digress. One thing that became clear as I started to pay attention to the craft of songwriting was that there were a lot of performers around who had one (or maybe two) really outstanding songs in them. The rest of their stuff might be just so much navel-gazing, but those special songs would just shine. Unfortunately, when the writer didn't get a record contract and decided to "get on with their life" (probably selling shoes or something), those great songs would disappear. I decided to do two things: 1. Collect and play those songs by unknown songwriters that I thought were really, really good. 2. Not play any of my own songs until and unless I felt they measured up. My "career goal", at one point, was to have my own studio, where I could record people playing just their very best songs. I figured I could release compilation records; No one would make a pile of money, but at least those songs wouldn't just fade away. I still haven't gotten there (yet), but at least my own writing has gotten better. I've come far enough in my own writing to put out a quality set or two of my own stuff. And it only took 30 years! When I perform I still sneak in some of my favorites by worthy writers who the world will probably never know about. What a shame. |
|
06 Oct 01 - 11:38 PM (#566529) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Genie Bartholomew, |
|
06 Oct 01 - 11:38 PM (#566530) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Genie Bartholomew, What a great idea! Do you have any CDs of such compilations? You know, I think one reason there are so many "singer-songwriters"* singing and recording so many crappy to mediocre songs lies in the extensions of the copyright laws to the point where nothing written i.e., copyrighted) in the last 75 years can be recorded or performed for $ without paying what can be high royalties.. I am afraid that many song treasures will be lost to our descendents because copyrights now persist so long after an author's demise. Even the "great" songwriters often wrote 10 to 1000 so-so songs for every gem. (Irving Berlin, e.g., is said to have written at least 1500 songs--out of which maybe 30 to 60 are really memorable. Hank Williams also wrote a lot more songs than "hits.") Once the "cream" has risen to the top, it's a shame to let it spoil because it's too expensive to consume it! Let me illustrate the point with one more example: Every singer and her/his brother/sister seems to record a Christmas CD that includes all the old Christmas hymns and public domain favorites (Deck The Hall, Silent Night, etc.). Why? I imagine it's because they don't have to pay royalties on these! Genie |
|
06 Oct 01 - 11:45 PM (#566536) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Bert ... Not play any of my own songs until and unless I felt they measured up... Bartholomew, unfortunately it is others, and not yourself who judge the value of your songs. Which is why people insist on associating me with songs like Silicone Cindy and Size Doesn't Matter and ignore those song of mine which I thing are better. |
|
06 Oct 01 - 11:56 PM (#566549) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Crane Driver Any song that still means something after 200 years has got to have something going for it. I've written a (very) few songs, sing a few modern ones, but mostly trad. I don't think I can judge my own songs - it would only be if someone else wanted to sing one that I would know that it had "worked". I'm still waiting. A song isn't a folksong until someone other than the original writer starts singing it. (that's not intended as a definition of "folksong"). So we who interpret other people's songs are a vital part of the folk process. Scary or what? |
|
06 Oct 01 - 11:57 PM (#566551) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Genie Gawd! I really messed up the formatting on my last post! Is there someone there at the 'Cat who can put in a couple of line breaks, so the dern thing doesn't stretch across the page for two miles? Genie I wish there were a way for me/us to go back after a post and fix errors! |
|
07 Oct 01 - 12:07 AM (#566557) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Genie Oh, phooey! I'm just gonna put in the #%!/+@!! line breaks myself and hope that Joe or someone will delete the screwed -up post above. Genie Bartholomew, What a great idea! Do you have any CDs of such compilations? You know, I think one reason there are so many "singer-songwriters"* singing and recording so many crappy to mediocre songs lies in the extensions of the copyright laws to the point where nothing written (i.e., copyrighted) in the last 75 years can be recorded or performed for $ without paying what can be high royalties. I would love to record great songs of Hank Williams, the Gershwins, Duke Ellington, Paul Simon, Bob Dylan, Bob Wills, Lieber and Stoller, Irving Berlin, Jimmie Rodgers, and many other composers/songwriters whose names may be less widely recognized. But to do a CD with ten such songs on it would, I am told, mean paying $7.50 in royalties alone for each CD burned! I am afraid that many song treasures will be lost to our descendents because copyrights now persist so long after an author's demise. Even the "great" songwriters often wrote 10 to 1000 so-so songs for every gem. (Irving Berlin, e.g., is said to have written at least 1500 songs--out of which maybe 30 to 60 are really memorable. Hank Williams also wrote a lot more songs than "hits.") Once the "cream" has risen to the top, it's a shame to let it spoil because it's too expensive to consume it! Let me illustrate the point with one more example: Every singer and her/his brother/sister seems to record a Christmas CD that includes all the old Christmas hymns and public domain favorites (Deck The Hall, Silent Night, etc.). Why? I imagine it's because they don't have to pay royalties on these! Even in the "folk" realm, the music of the 20th C. is mostly under copyright. Genie |
|
07 Oct 01 - 12:12 AM (#566561) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: Amergin if anyone were to ask me if they could something I wrote...I would just ask for the credit due...and a copy of the cd....but then that is not likely to ever happen... |
|
08 Oct 01 - 08:58 PM (#567854) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: GUEST,Sonja You too, Amergin? That probably applies to a lot of us. |
|
09 Oct 01 - 05:44 PM (#568499) Subject: RE: BS: Original =Best Songs? From: radriano I find the premise of this thread a bit ridiculous. |