|
25 Apr 01 - 06:40 AM (#448819) Subject: Any Goths outthere? From: Dave the Gnome Whitbty Goth weekend this weekend. Anyone there from the Mudcat? I'm not 'proper' Goth myself BTW and don't go to the concerts but after stumbling across this festival some years ago I have always enjoyed going. Probably because I like Whitby. Or is it because I like wearing make-up....? (But that's another story! :-)) Cheers DtG |
|
25 Apr 01 - 07:17 AM (#448829) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: manitas_at_work I'm an East Saxon. We were up in Whitby a few weeks ago. |
|
25 Apr 01 - 07:18 AM (#448830) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Orac I'm going to Whitby (Moor and Coast Festival) too. I didn't know anything about Goths until I got there last year for the first time and saw all these strange bods wandering about. Unfortunately one of the poor sods fell off the cliff last year and was killed, so lets hope nothing happens like that again. Its a bit cool at this time of year for the camping but well worth it. |
|
25 Apr 01 - 07:47 AM (#448842) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Firecat ME!!! Well, I used to be. Im an ex Goth. I still wear black most of the time but I don't wear black lipstick and don't have black hair anymore. |
|
25 Apr 01 - 07:55 AM (#448847) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Dave the Gnome I don't have black hair either. In fact I don't have much hair... Can I borrow your black lipstick though??? ;-) strange bods wandering about??? I thought they were the Morris Dancers! Cheers DtG
|
|
25 Apr 01 - 07:58 AM (#448848) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: English Jon Might be... Why? English Jon (AKA Allan Sex Fiend) |
|
25 Apr 01 - 07:58 AM (#448849) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Troll Ostra- or Visi-? Differences are crucial. troll |
|
25 Apr 01 - 08:01 AM (#448850) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Orac Yes there were some of those too.. I dont like to speak ill of the afflicted. |
|
25 Apr 01 - 08:02 AM (#448851) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: GUEST,Dita (at work) More info please Troll, from Father of two Goths aged 14&12. love, john. |
|
25 Apr 01 - 08:05 AM (#448855) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Firecat No, Dave, you can't borrow my black lippy! I don't know where it is for a start! Anyway, my boyfriend complained when I wore black lippy, cos he ended up wearing more than me!! |
|
25 Apr 01 - 08:10 AM (#448862) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Nemesis I was wondering when the Goth question would come up on Mudcat :) Not a Goth (although do have secret yen to drop pastels get into black leather - but that's probably a different site altogether :) gOTHS AND GARDENING ANYONE? Check out www.gothic.net/~malice - sorry - how does one do blue blicky things? Cheers |
|
25 Apr 01 - 08:20 AM (#448873) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Gervase I suggest you talk to Morticia - she's spawned a very nice Goth who's a credit to her lunatic parents. |
|
25 Apr 01 - 08:28 AM (#448878) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Troll Dita,
The Ostragoths and Visigoths were two tribes who invaded parts of Europe after the fall of Rome. Actually, the helped some of it fall.. troll |
|
25 Apr 01 - 08:32 AM (#448884) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: English Jon Lack of couth my arse. English Jon |
|
25 Apr 01 - 08:44 AM (#448891) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Dave the Gnome I suppose I could combine the folky/goth thing. Hows about singing "The Sisters of Mercy, they are not at the concert tonight..." Dave the Gothic Gnome |
|
25 Apr 01 - 08:47 AM (#448895) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: English Jon Why not? Andrew Eldritch does "Jolene". Possibly the funniest thing I've ever heard. English Jon |
|
25 Apr 01 - 08:58 AM (#448908) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Dave the Gnome Oh - and if you want further info on the weekend itself, Dita, try This Clicky (If I got it right! - If not it's www.whitby.darkwave.co.uk). The youngsters would love it. I took my twins - or rather they took me - when they were 14. Had a whale of time (Scuse the pun, those who know Whitby). Whitby is such a great place. Good cheap accom usualy available as well - except at this years Folk Festival which clashes with the Regatta! Bagdale Hall has some very reasonable family rooms (sleep 3/4/5) which we stopped in. Enjoy DtG |
|
25 Apr 01 - 08:59 AM (#448909) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Bagpuss I was always told I should be a goth, cos I'm pretty pale, and I read Sandman comics. Could never get into the scary music tho, and I am rather too fond of nice pretty colours. Anyone remember a sketch in a comedy (Big Train perhaps?) in which goths had a rota for hanging around the cemeteries and looking scary? Bagpuss |
|
25 Apr 01 - 09:21 AM (#448929) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Louisa I'm not a goth (although I do wear black a lot) but my friend Ant is a folky and a goth and will be at Whitby this weekend! He has long blonde hair, and likes eating sweetcorn out of the tin. If you ever forget what kind of festival you're at, then Ant's your man - just look at his clothes - black for goth, green and purple tie-dye for folk!
|
|
25 Apr 01 - 09:25 AM (#448930) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: wysiwyg Hey Goths, help me out. Is an adult Goth involvement kinda like a Ren Faire thing, in terms of time spent, it being a sort of second persona, etc.? That sounds interesting and largely fun and positive. Here in the US though, the very young preteen and teen Goths... are into general negativity, actively. It's not a separate reality for them as much as the main reality... Can you help me sort out the US and UK and/or age differences? Firecat, can you help me see this? PMs are welcome, if not here. ~S~ |
|
25 Apr 01 - 09:32 AM (#448936) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Fibula Mattock Hmm, I went through the wearing black phase (now I'm just into archaeological hippy-grunge scruff), but was more of an industrial goth (nine inch nails as opposed to nephilim). I have a friend who's still a goth at the ripe old age of 29. He hates other goths and calls them cliquey and snobbish. He refuses to be categorised as one, despite the fact that he gets up in the morning and decides on which shade of black to wear for the day. We went out to a Hallowe'en fancy dress night at a club a few years ago and all he did was stick on a wizard's hat. He has gorgeous waist-length black hair. Everyone thought it was attached to the hat, which didn't go down to well with him as they tried to pull it. |
|
25 Apr 01 - 09:35 AM (#448938) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Wavestar Sometimes I'm a Goth. Never hardcore. I'd look bad with balck hair. Got accused of it a lot in high school though - thanks, whitebread world. I like the music, I can appreciate some of the clothes, but the angst... no thanks, I'm done with angst. If you're Gothic and you know it dress in black... If you're Gothic and you know it dress in black... If you're Gothic and you know it then your clothes will surely show it If you're Gothic and you know it dress in black If you're Gothic and you know it be depressed If you're Gothic and you know it be depressed If you're Gothic and you know it and then your angst will surely show it If you're Gothic and you know it be depressed. If you're Gothic and you know it slit your wrists If you're Gothic and you know it slit your wrists If you're Gothic and you know it then your scars will surely show it If you're Gothic and you know it slit your wrists If you're Gothic and you know it, kill your friends If you're Gothic and you know it, kill your friends If you're Gothic and you know, then the body count will show it, If you're Gothic and you know it, kill your friends Now please, no one get offended... I alwsys thought this was really amusing when I was all Gothed up... my friends and I used to walk down the street singing it. -J
|
|
25 Apr 01 - 09:55 AM (#448954) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: hesperis Challis - I love that site! I found it when I was looking for the meaning of hesperis. Here's your blue clicky to MAlice's Gothic Garden. I'm not a goth, but I've had friends who were. They said I would be perfect for it, probably because of the unhealthy colour of my skin, lol! But unfortunately, I never could see the benefits of giving up bright pink and orange. I love too many colours to be a real goth, though the music is cool. Also, I have a slight philosophical difference - I recognize that the darkness of life is rich and varied, but I like the bright side too. I go into the darkness to create, but I don't want to live there exclusively. I prefer to integrate the dark and the light, rather than choosing one over the other. Jessica - ROTFLMOLWSGJOTK!!! I am going to have to tell my friends about this! It's perfect! ~*hesperis*~ |
|
25 Apr 01 - 10:03 AM (#448961) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: English Jon Hmmm... Obviously more goth in folk than I thought. Anyone ever do goth stuff in folk clubs? Hastily rushing off to learn "last exit for the lost" on the concertina... English Jon |
|
25 Apr 01 - 10:26 AM (#448986) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: GUEST,Matt_R Truth be told, Goths scare the Hell out of me! |
|
25 Apr 01 - 10:27 AM (#448988) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: English Jon HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Why? |
|
25 Apr 01 - 10:29 AM (#448991) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Noreen Hepsperis.... spraying green jello on the keyboard????? |
|
25 Apr 01 - 10:35 AM (#448997) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: GUEST,Matt_R I don't know...they just do. |
|
25 Apr 01 - 10:37 AM (#449000) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: English Jon Fair enough. Nothing to do with eating their own young then? |
|
25 Apr 01 - 10:41 AM (#449001) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Caitrin I did the Goth "I am a tortured artist" thing a bit in ninth grade--I just kinda got bored with being tortured. Now I still wear a lot of black, but it's mostly because half of the clothes I own are used for working crew in theatre. I did have a rather fun time at a Goth club I went to in Cambridge, MA, when I was visiting a friend up there. And Susan, a lot of the people in the Goth club scene here are only Goth on the weekends. They do it for fun or fashion or entertainment and then go back to their regular lives the rest of the time. There are also a lot of people who always live in their Goth persona--some of them are really cool interesting people who have chosen Goth as their way of life, and some of them are pretentious "tortured artists" who need to grow up. |
|
25 Apr 01 - 10:59 AM (#449016) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: English Jon Goth and theatre are of course strongly linked... Bauhaus etc. Like acting, music etc, the whole goth thing is essentially about showing off. |
|
25 Apr 01 - 11:01 AM (#449019) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: GUEST,Matt_R Now mind you, I DO like JJ72 and Placebo! |
|
25 Apr 01 - 11:46 AM (#449059) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Dave the Gnome Like acting, music etc, the whole goth thing is essentially about showing off. Never thought of it that way, EJ, but I reckon you are onto something there. I am, basicaly, an exhibitionist at heart. Why else would I do the Pace-Egg play, get involved in Morris and, to a lesser extent, sing at the folk club even if I'm not that good at it? I don't think it is purely for the attention as I feel no need for attention or recognition in any other way. I think it is just the way I am. I also find that at folk festivals, the goth weekend, morris dance days and so on I feel comfortable. Is it because they are full of like minded people? Perhaps any of mudcats phsycologists would like to comment??? Before I get too serious though perhaps it is equaly because all these activities involve partaking in large quantities of the amber nectar??? I have never seen or heard of any trouble at any festivals of this type though. Perhaps the authorities have it wrong! Instead of banning drinking at football matches etc make all the fans wear make up, wooly jumpers and morris bells instead!!! Could be onto something here...;-) Werther de Goethe |
|
25 Apr 01 - 11:46 AM (#449060) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: GUEST,Rana Only group I've seen which had a fair number of goths (as well as folks who looked like pirates) in the audience was Dead Can Dance. They are still one of my favourite bands (seen them 3 times in Toronto - pity they seem to have broken up) and seem to have a very cross-over audience - certain tracks could be considered folky (to answer one point above) - they do The Wind that bends the Barley, for instance. Rana |
|
25 Apr 01 - 11:57 AM (#449075) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Fibula Mattock Oh, I love Dead Can Dance! ("Shakes" the barley, Rana, "shakes" it!)*G* |
|
25 Apr 01 - 12:40 PM (#449124) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Lonesome EJ The children of the night...what music they make! Mwahhh-ha-haaaaa! |
|
25 Apr 01 - 06:02 PM (#449367) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Dave the Gnome Ah well - getting into the swing of things. I'm halfway down a bottle of something I can't pronounce (coz it's Scotish..;-)) and feeling decidedly gothic. Well, I've gone very pale with black under my eyes anyway.... Love and kisses all. Looking forward to Whitby. veaD het noGme |
|
25 Apr 01 - 06:14 PM (#449381) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Peg I go to goth shows in Boston fairly often; gotta have somewhere to wear my vintage Edwardian black clothing...I dress in sort of a romantic goth look (lace, some color in with the black, vintage, leather, not vinyl) I do have very goth hair I am told (no I do not dye it black) and am pale-skinned enough to pull it off... In my exotic dancer days I wore a lot of black lace... Goth is mostly about music and fashion, but there are some who live it as a lifestyle...some of them very interesting folks...some of them pretentious gits. |
|
25 Apr 01 - 06:19 PM (#449388) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: hesperis Noreen - you were close. Grape juice, actually. (I detest green jello.) I co-wrote a song with a goth friend once. She wrote the lyrics and I wrote the melody. It's a pretty cool song. Unfortunately, her boyfriend hated me... because we were going to start a band with one other person, and she told him that he would be the sound guy without telling the rest of the band, and he tried to take the thing over and I wouldn't let him. He was a goth, a pagan, and a druid, and he started going on about how he was more powerful than I was, and that he could kill me magically and it wouldn't even show... fun, eh? I told him that of course he could do that, and he dropped the issue. But it kinda broke up the band, as he didn't want her coming near me, because I saw right through him. It really sucks when those with magical power refuse to take responsibility for the proper use of it. It gives us all a bad name. |
|
25 Apr 01 - 07:34 PM (#449440) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Nemesis Re. Hesperis' post - did anyone see the BBC2 doc. last week about The Arcane Wizards who all seem to have met up at catering College - Top w***er was boasting how he had hexed people and made their life a misery. The funniest tho' were all the sly visual jokes the BBC had slipped in e.g. interviewing "Orpheus" on an Underground train; best was a very earnest discussion on the origins of modern hermetic magic in front of a fairground sign of Mickey Mouse (as the Sorcerer's Apprentice) Cheers ChaliceRaven |
|
26 Apr 01 - 12:39 AM (#449604) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Peg hesperis; I agree: penisheads like that DO give conscientious witches/pagans a bad name...but if he is a "real" practitioner I am sure he has suffered for this sort of behavior... Challis: that sounds hilarious! Wish I could see it. |
|
26 Apr 01 - 12:50 AM (#449608) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: SeanM Hi, my name's Sean. I'm a recovering Goth, punk, Industrial-head and pretty much every other major aberration in music to head down the pike. Did my time as a "black clad". Still got the long hair, though it's grown longer and now is no longer uniform Clairol Blue-Black (Number 93, if I remember correctly). Did my time as a 'skunkhawk', sides shaved up to the crown, rest grown and epoxyed up to fins. Did my time in fishnets, though for personal reasons much less than the above - I'm a firm believer that NOONE should be subjected to hairy guys in fishnets without a personal request first. Results? I'm now another 'renegade folkie', with no compunctions about blending the tune for 'The Bollweevil' into the tune for "Blister in the Sun" (Just lookin' for a hooooooome, he's just lookin' for a home, Lookin' for a hooooooome...) It's all different paths. Some of us follow them back to the basis for them, and others go the other way without ever looking back... Sean
|
|
26 Apr 01 - 05:23 AM (#449661) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: English Jon Anybody out there like Hedningarna? Swedish folk music that sounds as if it was produced by Christian Death. Very interesting. |
|
26 Apr 01 - 06:12 AM (#449676) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: paddymac Jasus, DtG, be careful. That burnt whisky can do strange things to you. |
|
26 Apr 01 - 12:33 PM (#449898) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Caitrin Trad and Violent Femmes? *grins* Sounds cool, Sean. |
|
26 Apr 01 - 12:45 PM (#449909) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: mousethief Am not a Goth, currently don't know any Goths, but have met and talked with some in the past -- they struck me as a hell of a lot like folks. The ones I talked to were really pretty nice, and not nearly as f***ed up as the media likes to portray them. Everybody wants to "fit in" -- the Goths, methinks, have just found a way to identify themselves that the "mainstream" culture is a little uncomfortable with. But they're human, with human wants, needs, desires, feelings, etc., for all that. Alex |
|
26 Apr 01 - 01:08 PM (#449931) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Fibula Mattock Yeah, but what about all the brat-kids who appear on afternoon talk shows with titles like "My Kid Worships Satan and Listens to Evil Music and Wears Black Lipstick and Has Piercings" (maybe more concise than that) who all try to dress like goths cos they want to be individual, but they try so hard not to fit in that they end up looking like everyone else. Sad really. And nowadays I am mocked for wearing stripey knee socks. The only time I looked fashionable was during the grunge phase, though mine was out of habit and necessity and not current trends. |
|
26 Apr 01 - 01:11 PM (#449936) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: mousethief How many kids who "worship satan" are really serious about their "religion" and how many are just trying to shock their parents? Truly there is nothing new under the sun. The Goths I talked to were not satan-worshippers (actually they were Episcopalians!) and I would wager that very few people who think they are satan worshippers really are, and they are more in need of our pity than our scorn. Alex |
|
26 Apr 01 - 01:18 PM (#449944) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Fibula Mattock Oh, I totally agree that they're in a minority, but I don't see the need for pity OR scorn - it's just a choice of belief systems. And are satan worshippers not completely different from the stereotyped anti-Christian version anyway? |
|
26 Apr 01 - 01:21 PM (#449949) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Fibula Mattock (Love to stay and debate the issue, but dinner and a leaderless Girl Guide pack await!) |
|
26 Apr 01 - 01:24 PM (#449951) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: JeZeBeL I'm a Goth, Well, part time now. Used to be a pretty hardcore goth when I was at college, went to uni in newcastle and when I saw the area I was living in I thought I'd be shot if I went out in me goth stuff!! I was goth at the jug inn last nite!! UltraViolet Orange hair, black music tee shirt, short black skirt, BLUE fishnet tights and of course the ever faithful Doc Marten boots!! Noone could miss me last night when they walked in anyway!! I guess I'm more of a punk now though. WOuld love a mohican, .................but I need to get a job, so that's that outta the window. I still love a lot of industrial music, give me a NineInchNails CD anyday to listen to, but I love punk covers, and SKA music. I'm going to be playing trumpet in a ska band soon, can't wait!! Anyone who likes the crossover between goth and folk try IN EXTREMO, a German metalish band which incorporates bagpipes and harp!! It sounds awful from my description but it works very well. I am definately impressed!! Now you get to know why my Mudcat name is JeZeBeL!! It all links in you see. It was my gothic name was JeZeBeL adn I even got so seriously goth I was going to change it at one point. I am now known as Emma again though. Probably better in the long run. I mean JeZeBeL, wot kind of a name is that, sounds like something from a swedish whorehouse!! Emma xxx |
|
26 Apr 01 - 02:11 PM (#450006) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Hollowfox Has anybody else stumbled onto the Gothic Martha Stewart site? (really) http://www.toreadors.com/martha/index.html (sorry, I haven't got the hang of the blueclicky yet) |
|
26 Apr 01 - 02:52 PM (#450065) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Wavestar I think you'll find it's something from a Biblical whorehouse, actually, Jezebal/Emma.... II Kings 9. Boy- one nasty chapter of the Bible, I must say. -J |
|
26 Apr 01 - 03:01 PM (#450075) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: wildlone I thought that this was about the forthcoming film work up in Wales in a couple of weeks time. The members of the re-enactment group that I belong to have been asked to play the part of Goths and take on the Romans, but it has been put off until the foot in mouth dies down. dave. |
|
26 Apr 01 - 04:01 PM (#450125) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Nemesis Re. I had a friend who wore vaguely hippy clothes, a lot of black eyeliner, and dozens of jingling silver bracelets - apparently, when she walked down the street looking vaguely alternative people would throw stones: and this was in GOOLE? |
|
26 Apr 01 - 06:58 PM (#450226) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Dave the Gnome Heyyyyy! I didn't know that to be a goth I had to worship Santa.... Damn! I'll have to give it up. I mean, Santa's ok and all that at Christmas but worship.... Lysdexia lures Ko? tDG |
|
26 Apr 01 - 10:21 PM (#450304) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Sorcha As A Person: I have no real problem with Gothic as long as it is a mature, adult decison as an Alternate Persona just for fun. It is not for me, because I KNOW as a result of past experiences that the Dark Side really does exist, regardless of what you call it. And, the more you call It, the more It responds.
As a Parent: Gothic scares the shit out of me because of what I just said about the more you call It, the more It responds. Too many teens don't understand that, and they don't have the maturity of judgement to know when to STOP.
Should I, as a Parent, embrace music that encourages my child to commmit violence on other living things, or to committ suicide????
Unfortunately, if you call Satan (regardless of what name you call Him) he does answer. Does not Satan/Dark Side exist in almost every religion? After fighting depression for nearly 50 years, I don't NEED to call down any help just to feel depressed.
Pre teens, teens and adolescents trying/wanting to be Depressed scares the shit out of me......I have dealt with too many REAL suicides to want to "play pretend" at it.......
My tears are real, and I don't tolerate "pretend tears" very well..........if you want something to cry about, or feel depressed about, I can find you something REAL....and NOW!! Not just fake angst. I get very put out at emotional fakery of any kind. (Play Party games like re-enactment are a different story--they don't intend to create false depression.....OK? You got me here? Not sorry, but come get this soapbox, OK? |
|
27 Apr 01 - 12:05 AM (#450335) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: mousethief Sorcha, makes perfect sense, what you said. Thanks for speaking up. I guess I hadn't seen it from exactly that angle before. Alex |
|
27 Apr 01 - 12:11 AM (#450339) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Sorcha Thanks, Alex. Suicide and death in general are just all too real and recent in this household for any of us to Play Games about it......and self mutilation is not funny either. That includes piercings, as far as I am concerned. Why should any kind of pain be condsidered FUN?? |
|
27 Apr 01 - 07:46 AM (#450394) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Gervase Thread-drift here, but to be a Satan worshipper in the purest sense, you have to be/have been a Christian, surely? After all, Satan only really exists in the Christian canon, so it would be pretty pointless in anyone else worshipping the old goat. |
|
27 Apr 01 - 10:19 AM (#450426) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Caitrin There's "Satan Worship" and there's "Worship of evil". The first is basically a reversal of Christianity. The second requires no Christianity or belief in anything other than evil. And Sorcha, I agree completely. That's a large part of why I get irritated at so many of the people who "do the Goth thing". You're definitely right about self-mutilation--it's not funny, it's scary. People who do it have a lot of pain they're trying to cope with and need help with that pain. |
|
27 Apr 01 - 11:51 AM (#450455) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Wavestar I had a friend who said she was a Satanist- curious, I asked her what this involved. She said it wasn't about evil, or darkness, or demons - it was people who felt that Lucier was right in rebelling, because he wanted free will from God, and didn't want to have to worship anyone or anything. Not what I expected. Different. Even thought-provoking. Not necesssarily what most kids are thinking, but I was surprised- at least some were. -J |
|
27 Apr 01 - 01:19 PM (#450490) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: JeZeBeL Oh, yeh, I'd just like to point out that i DON'T worship Satan, or any type of evil. |
|
29 Apr 01 - 09:24 PM (#451839) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: hesperis Evil doesn't exist in all religions. |
|
29 Apr 01 - 10:41 PM (#451868) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Peg English Jon; I do love Hedningarna! And Garmarna...love love love some of the new dark Scandinavian folk bands... Peg
|
|
30 Apr 01 - 01:07 AM (#451912) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: SeanM As with any trend, clique or the like, certain unbalanced people will always pull the curve out of whack. My personal experience and time as a gothie was a combination of typical teenage rebellion, a like for the music, and a desire to bond more closely with my friends who were of the same mind. I'm not gonna deny that there are 'freaks' (as we referred to them) who really believe they're a vampire, or 101 other stupid things that they believe. However, you can find this in ANY subculture. In my experience, I ran into one or two goths who I'd consider a danger to others or themselves. I've run into one or two punks during that phase who were truly self or otherwise destructive (I'm not counting gangs into that - that's stupidity independent of the subculture). I've even run into one or two folkies I'd consider dangerous - people who've taken the idea that singing about changing things isn't enough, and one must do so by any means necessary. While I do appreciate that Goths, Punks, and the affiliated trade guilds are easy targets and the most visible tend not to be the best examples, I don't see the cause for concern that Sorcha does. I've never met a single person who has become 'dangerous' to anyone simply by listening to the music. Sometimes it can be a warning sign - it's hammered into a lot of kids that only "sick and disturbed people look like that, act like that, listen to that music". In that case, it's only natural that a teenager will adopt that style to show that they're distressed. But it's not the cause. I lost two friends in high school to suicide, one goth, one punk. The goth was being raped by her father - but the family wouldn't believe her, and blamed her friends. The punk had gotten hooked into drugs, turned punk, and eventually wound up getting into fistfights with his father before OD'ing intentionally. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the subculture is not a danger, is not 'evil', or any of the other things that popularly get said about it. If you're concerned that a child of yours or someone else's is being damaged by this, please PLEASE look more closely at the life beyond the music before condemning the entire ball o' wax. Was their behaviour a sudden and drastic change from previous behaviour? Are they flaunting the 'dangerous' angles, but not expressing any interest in the mundane angles? There are many signs, none of which start with "Is he/she a goth?" Sorry... I'll return this soapbox for the nickel deposit now and get a soda... M |
|
30 Apr 01 - 05:11 AM (#451941) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: English Jon !!!!!!!!!!! LIGHTEN UP! !!!!!!!!!!! 1. Teenagers will always be depressed. Fact of Life. Something to do with hormones. 2. Can't think of too much in the way of Goth Lyrics that says "we love Satan" etc. Fields of the Nephilim used to do a lot of stuff based on ancient sumerian legends etc, but no-one could understand a word of it anyway. 3. Of course, goth is the only youth culture that has people with tatoos, ear piercings etc. MARTIN CARTHY HAS PIERCED EARS! So have lots of women, come to think of it. Whats the difference? For God's sake, it's a fashion statement. Oy vay. English Jon |
|
30 Apr 01 - 05:39 AM (#451946) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Fibula Mattock "Making teenagers depressed is like shooting fish in a barrel" (wods of wisdom from The Simpsons). I have quite a few piercings. My mother thought it was some kind of self-mutilation at first, but now I think she's just happy I didn't get a tattoo when I threatened to. As am I. I couldn't be a goth now. I find most of the music dire, although get a kick out of some of the industrial stuff (perhaps because it's a dance music precursor of sorts) but now I like happy music. |
|
30 Apr 01 - 07:26 AM (#451960) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Dave the Gnome I think we may be at transatlantic difference time again - or just differences in perception anyway. Having just returned from the Goth festival in Whitby I can say I saw no evidence of devil worship, suicide cults or any other 'negative' aspects of Goth sub-culture apart from one or two 'offensive' tee-shirt slogans. There was no trouble, fighting, vandalism or evidence of heavy drug abuse. Even the teenagers I met were happy! Remember that 'Goth' has now come to mean as many things as Folk does to us. There are traditional goths, romantic goths, cyber goths, punk goths, etc etc - the list seems endless. Not all were dressed in black. Very few looked even remotely vampirish. Oddly enough the whole vampire bit is a bit frowned on at Whitby - very cliched dontcha know! There were Victorian mill owners, Napoleonic soldiers, whip wielding dominatrix's, sexy slaves, leather clad bikers, petite Edwardian ladies and a whole multitude of styles colours, clothes and attitudes. The main thing was all had a great time. They were all super friendly and welcomed everyone with equal good grace. I saw a brilliant sign which said 'The only difference between someone who has tatoos and piercings and someone who doesn't is that the one with them never takes offence at someone without!' I had no reservations at all about taking my daughters (twins) when they were 14 (Well - they took me actualy!) They are now 16, pretty well balanced and funnily enough no longer into the goth look - although they still like the music. The worse effect it had on them was that they were bullied to the extent that they had to change school and ended up receiving treatment for depression as a result of the violence towards them. I don't blame the other children too much. They have only been taught by narrow minded bigoted parents who believed that the Goth sub-culture consisted of satan worshiping, gun toting, psycopathic evil murderers! Neither of my daughters, or any of their friends, or anyone I saw this weekend remotely fits into that stereotype. There you go - anyone want the soapbox back??? Cheers Dave the Gothignome |
|
30 Apr 01 - 07:37 AM (#451964) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Fibula Mattock S'okay, I believe you already! (but am worried at the thought of a goth gnome) |
|
30 Apr 01 - 07:46 AM (#451967) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Dave the Gnome Ahhhh - but Fib, you already know of my nefarious fellwalking activities! Nothing should surprise you about a Gnome who frightens girl guides.... Cheers DtG |
|
30 Apr 01 - 09:33 AM (#452005) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Fibula Mattock Ha! I have them trained in "Walking Safely Away From Gnomes. Module one: fishing tackle". Fear for your gnome-ish life! |
|
18 May 01 - 02:17 PM (#465731) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: hesperis For a lighter look at Goth, there's a sarcastic site about how to become one with an Insta-Kit! Tip: Check out the "how-to"s and then look at the poster goths. A HREF="http://sykospark.net/goth/">Funny! |
|
18 May 01 - 03:16 PM (#465770) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: hesperis Sheesh! I am having a BAD TYPO DAY!!! |
|
18 May 01 - 06:54 PM (#465916) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Dorrie This is quite ridiculous because being a teenagers isn't easy but its not actually that hard. But in saying that i think we do get a bad press. goths and moshers r different things and the depression doesn't come with it. i guess u might say me and my friends r goths/moshers and we have a right laugh. i love being a teenagers but exams can really easily depress ppl especially because no body understands the course nevermind what the end thing is gonna b each 2 their own dorrie xxx |
|
18 May 01 - 07:20 PM (#465939) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: Dave Wynn Dave the Gnome, Dare you tell em about sitting under a bridge in the lakes singing I'm a troll fol-de-rol....and the effect on the local child population..... And yes...damn their hides...I am a part time goth...Black dog...black lippy.....cool. Spot |
|
19 May 01 - 02:47 AM (#466100) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: hesperis Yeah, I was never a Goth, but I was very depressed for a while. Now, before you all jump on me for crashing your thread and posting that silly link... I had Goth friends! |
|
19 May 01 - 04:19 AM (#466114) Subject: RE: BS: Any Goths outthere? From: lady penelope I was the maid of honour at a goth wedding the other weekend. Due to the groom being a total romantic, they got married in the middle of nowhere ( well about 6 miles outside Exeter ) on top of a 1000 foot hill, up a tower, called Haldon Belvedere. It was a VERY nice place and it was a very good do and it was screamingly funny to find out that the bride was afraid of heights and had trouble coping with spiral staircases!!! Bless her heart, she did really well and didn't mame any one for getting in her way. The music selection was of course gothy with a hint of pop ( don't ask me ) I couldn't believe when Wet Wet Wet came on! But as the groom is a real "Cyber Goth" it was all on MP3, which then proceeded to crash every few songs. Teehee. Should of got real musickers in! TTFN M'Lady P. |