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08 May 01 - 07:14 PM (#458317) Subject: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: GUEST,fjsmith@msn.com Does anyone know the origin of this song? |
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08 May 01 - 07:32 PM (#458338) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Chicken Charlie Jack Johnson was heavyweight boxing champ of the world in 1912; he was African-American. He was refused first class passage on RMS Titanic. When the ship sank, the folk world reacted as if it were a judgment on segregation by race, class, etc. Mance Lipscomb does another song, entirely different but on the same subject, playing slide guitar on it.
Jacob Astor was a millionaire; he had plenty money to spare, CC |
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08 May 01 - 07:41 PM (#458345) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Chicken Charlie More on the point of the class issue, look at the disparity of percentage saved between First, Second and Third Class. The only First Class women lost chose to stay with their husbands. In the Third Class, not even the kids were safe. Again, I hate being separated from notes; will post facts & figs tomorrow. CC |
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08 May 01 - 07:50 PM (#458351) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: RWilhelm The Titanic song about Jack Johnson is the one by Leadbelly. I think the song requested is the one we all sang at camp:
Husbands and wives I don't know the origin but the basic theme is if you say a ship can never go down you are challanging God and he won't let you get away with it. |
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08 May 01 - 08:11 PM (#458374) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: McGrath of Harlow Hunt around a litle on the net and you can get a complete passenger list, with lists of survivors and non-survivors, where they embarked, and where they came from. Whole families. Steerage passengers didn't tend to be among the survivors.
Reading through the list brings it home, a bit like reading the names on a village war memorial. I can't ever sing that song as a happy singalong bit of fun. |
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08 May 01 - 09:26 PM (#458415) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: toadfrog Hey! Nobody has answered GUEST's question, which is, what is the origin of the song, i.e. who wrote it? When we know that, maybe the political stuff will fit, and again maybe not. |
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08 May 01 - 09:54 PM (#458426) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Noreen A quick search on Google gives an educational site which calls this song the 'Alan Lomax version' but he was a collector, wasn't he? |
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08 May 01 - 10:07 PM (#458428) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Noreen This page attempts to trace this particular Titanic song back as close as possible to its origins |
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09 May 01 - 12:57 AM (#458479) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Bev and Jerry We read somewhere on the net, probably right here at dis here forum, that there were more than 100 songs copyrighted in 1912, all called "The Titanic". Bev and Jerry |
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09 May 01 - 02:47 AM (#458498) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Liz the Squeak My dad worked with a bloke who was rescued as a child of 3 from the the Titanic, and he was travelling 2nd class. Also, one of my grandfather's uncles is named as a hospital steward on the Titanic - William or Richard Dunford - his family knew him as both, as when he was born there were 5 other Richard or William Dunfords in the same extended family. We haven't been able to trace him after 1912.... we don't even know if he was on it, because if he skipped ship - like so many did before it sailed - he would have changed his name to hide..... Don't take the passenger list as gospel - lots of those crew were not on board when it went down! I learned the song at school but could never find the book again afterwards - it was a school song book with other stuff like the proper version of the Red River Valley in it, probably published circa 1950 if it was anything like the rest of our text books...... I think singing the song will continue to make this thing a living memory, singing a sad song with a happy tune makes it stick in the memory. If we can't sing songs because some feel they are inappropriate, then there goes half the stuff from WWI.... and that was written by the soldiers themselves!! LTS |
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09 May 01 - 06:20 AM (#458544) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: McGrath of Harlow No, I wasn't suggesting not sing it. I like to sing it. But I think it'as best to think about the words while you're singing them. |
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09 May 01 - 09:16 AM (#458619) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Mrrzy We had a great version of this on that oddball folk song album by, I think, Gibson, or maybe Shep Ginandes (well, somewhere among the G's). The album is titled I believe Offbeat Folk Songs. It had the husbands and wives lyric, and more verses than any other version. I can sing this one, but I can't read the books about it without tearing up. We also used to sing the chorus, when we were kids, as Uncles and Aunts, little children lost their pants... |
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09 May 01 - 09:33 AM (#458625) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Noreen We used to sing it at school, as: husbands and wives, little doggies lost their lives... |
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09 May 01 - 09:44 AM (#458628) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Michael in Swansea I've got this on a Stan Wilson LP my Dad bought in the late 50's. Been meaning to dig it out for a while. Mike |
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09 May 01 - 11:19 AM (#458690) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: GUEST,fretless (at work) "Husbands and wives Little children lost their lives" "We used to sing it at school, as: husbands and wives, little doggies lost their lives..." ..................... Was anyone else as a child exposed to the parody: "Uncles and aunts, Itty bitty children lost their pants"? |
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09 May 01 - 11:41 AM (#458708) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: GUEST,grannyjan I've got this in the Penguin book of American Folk songs - but I don't know how old the book is at is has lost its cover. It came to me with my husband, twenty eight years ago and was battered then. I'll try and find out the date from the library. |
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09 May 01 - 11:53 AM (#458721) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Trapper Fretless- >>Was anyone else as a child exposed to the parody: "Uncles and aunts, Itty bitty children lost their pants"? Exposed... lost their pants... very funny! We had three "choruses" at Boy Scout camp - it sounded cool to get them all going at once:
CHO1: CHO2: CHO3:
In the first two choruses the notes usually go "up", but if you get the baritones to sing chorus three and make the notes go down, it sounds harmonious. Agreed, it's really too sad to sing rollicking, but then so are many children's songs (Ring around the rosie, London Bridge, Rock-A-Bye Baby, etc.) if you really listen to them. - Al |
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09 May 01 - 02:57 PM (#458880) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Chicken Charlie Contra toadfrog, I did not think the question was a simple "who wrote this?" Because, I was thinking, if that were the question, then fjsmith would simply have said, "Hey, who wrote this?" The more general question of origin led me to believe we were inquiring about what it was that triggered the composition. Oh, well. Earliest known recording I'm aware of is Lead Belly's; Lipscomb, as I said, did a different but related song. Now to answer the question I thought was being asked: Percentages of passengers SAVED by class/gender/age: 1st Class children, 100%, women 97%, men 33%. 2nd Class children, 100%, women 86%, men 8% 3rd Class children, 34%, women 46%, men 16%. 22% percent of male crew and 87% of female crew were saved.
"They were nine days out of Liverpool, and almost to the shore, CC |
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09 May 01 - 05:55 PM (#459024) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: GUEST,Allan S. At boy Scout camp I learned it as Uncles and Aunts Little children peed their pants. The older boys sang it as Pxxxed their pants. Actually there was a woman who lived near the camp and we were told never to sing the song where she could hear it as she had lost a relative on the ship |
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23 Jul 08 - 01:51 PM (#2396118) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: The Archer man any body got the lyrics to Titanic |
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23 Jul 08 - 01:59 PM (#2396130) Subject: Lyr Add: THE GREAT TITANIC From: Amos THE GREAT TITANIC It was on one Monday morning just about one o'clock When that great Titanic began to reel and rock; People began to scream and cry, Saying, "Lord, am I going to die?" Chorus: It was sad when that great ship went down, It was sad when that great ship went down, Husbands and wives and little children lost their lives, It was sad when that great ship went down. When that ship left England it was making for the shore, The rich had declared that they would not ride with the poor, So they put the poor below, They were the first to go. While they were building they said what they would do, We will build a ship that water can't go through; But God with power in hand Showed the world that it could not stand. Those people on that ship were a long ways from home, With friends all around they didn't know that the time had come; Death came riding by, Sixteen hundred had to die. While Paul was sailing his men around, God told him that not a man should drown; If you trust and obey, I will save you all to-day. You know it must have been awful with those people on the sea, They say that they were singing, "Nearer My God to Thee." While some were homeward bound, Sixteen hundred had to drown. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The North Carolina version D has a similar chorus to the above Alabama version: Oh it was sad when that great ship went down. Their were husbands and their wives, Little children lost their lives. It was sad when that great ship went down. with each verse ending in "It was sad when the great ship went down." as well. Beyond this, the principal difference is the order in which the verses occur |
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23 Jul 08 - 04:03 PM (#2396213) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Mark Ross "They built another ship and they called it MARY LOU, The stern was painted green and the bow was painted blue, They christened her with beer and she sunk right off the pier, It was sad when the great ship....................." That's the way I learned it at camp. Mark Ross |
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23 Jul 08 - 04:34 PM (#2396241) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Steve Gardham Re origins. One of the earliest printed versions is given in N I White's 'Negro Folk-Songs, 1928. Friedman's Penguin Book of Folk Ballads of the English-Speaking World gives the White version and states....'1912. Southern balladeers immediately clapped the news into broadsides, one of them dated April 13th! The White text probably goes back to just such a tinted broadsheet, vended regularly in Negro districts before WWI for five cents. It has been reported from tradition in places as far apart as Alabama, Michigan and Texas.' A version was published in the school songbook 'Songs to Sing' book 1 first published in 1963. Incidentally I am often asked, as a song researcher, to identify fragments of various unidentified Titanic songs, but as already stated there were so many that this is almost impossible. As for this most popular of all the Titanic songs, like most broadside ballads, even ones as late as this, it is almost impossible to identify the original when they were printed on such cheap unrecorded flimsy paper. |
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24 Jul 08 - 04:43 AM (#2396602) Subject: RE: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work The version I learnt began: Oh, they built the ship 'Titanic' to sail the ocean blue, And they thought they had a ship that the water would never go through, But the Lord's almighty hand said that ship would never land, It was sad when that great ship went down. The rest of my version is more or less as given above, but with poorer scanning. LTS |
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19 Apr 17 - 03:25 AM (#3851144) Subject: RE: Origin: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Joe Offer Here are the Digital Tradition lyrics for the "Husbands and Wives" version: THE TITANIC (HUSBANDS AND WIVES) Oh they built the ship Titanic To sail the ocean blue And they thought they had a ship That the water would never go through; But the Lord's Almighty hand Said that ship would never land, It was sad when that great ship went down cho: It was sad. It was sad. It was sad when the great ship went down. (to the bottom of the...) Husbands and wives, Little children lost their lives It was sad when the great ship went down.) They were off for England And not very far from shore When the rich refused To associate with the poor So they sent them down below Where they'd be the first to go It was sad when that great ship went down The boat was about to sink, And the sides about to burst, When the captain shouted, "All Women and children first!" Oh, the captain tried to wire, But the wires was on fire, It was sad when the great ship went down. Oh, they swung the lifeboats out O'er the deep and ragin' sea, When the band struck up with, "Nearer My God to Thee." Little children wept and cried, As the waves swept o'er the side, It was sad when the great ship went down. tune: Little Old Log Cabin in the Lane DT #616 Laws D24 @sailor @wreck @camp filename[ TITANIC5 TUNE FILE: LITTLEJO CLICK TO PLAY TUNE FILE: FALLRAIN CLICK TO PLAY RG And here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry for this song: Titanic (I), The ("It Was Sad When That Great Ship Went Down") [Laws D24] (Titanic #1)DESCRIPTION: (Though the builders called her unsinkable), "On Monday morning... the great Titanic began to reel and rock." Rich and poor will not mix, so the poor on the lower decks drown first. The band plays "Nearer My God to Thee" and sixteen hundred people dieAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1924 (recording, Ernest V. Stoneman) KEYWORDS: sea wreck family disaster death HISTORICAL REFERENCES: April 14/15, 1912 - Shortly before midnight, ship's time, the Titanic strikes an iceberg and begins to sink. Only 711 survivors are found of 2224 people believed to have been aboard. FOUND IN: US(Ap,SE,So) REFERENCES (14 citations): Laws D24, "The Titanic I" Randolph 693, "The Great Titanic" ("B" fragment only; Randolph's "A" text is "The Titanic (IV)" ("Lost on the Great Titanic") (Titanic #4)) BrownII 287, "The Titanic" (5 texts plus an excerpt and mention of 2 more. The Laws data for this book is badly confused, but it appears the "C" and "D" texts are this song, and apparently the "E" fragment also; "A" and "B" are broadsides Laws does not classify (The first clearly based on "The Golden Vanity"; the second seems to be an adaption of this song to "There Will Be a Hot Time"), and "H" is "God Moves on the Water") BrownSchinhanIV 287, "The TItanic" (4 exceprts, 4 tunes, with "B" being presumably the same as Brown's "B" broadsiide, ""D" and "E" being "Titanic (I) 'It Was Sad When THat Great Ship Went Down'," and "H" being "God Moves on the Water" ("Titanic (III)") MHenry-Appalachians, pp. 88-89, "The Great Titanic" (1 text) Friedman, p. 323, "The Titanic" (1 text+2 fragments) Asch/Dunson/Raim, p. 60 "When That Great Ship Went Down" (1 text, 1 tune) Botkin-SoFolklr, p. 723, "The Ship Titanic" (1 text, 1 tune) Courlander-NFM, p. 77, "(The Titanic)" (1 text) Pankake-PHCFSB, pp. 280-281, "The Titanic" (1 text, 1 tune) Darling-NAS, pp. 184-185, "The Coast of Peru" (1 text) Silber-FSWB, p. 55, "The Titanic" (1 text) DT 616, TITANIC5* ADDITIONAL: Harold Courlander, _A Treasury of Afro-American Folklore_, Crown Publishers, 1976, pp. 403-404, "Wasn't IT Sad When That Great Ship Went Down" (1 text) Roud #774 RECORDINGS: Pink Anderson, "The Titanic" (on PinkAnd1, Class AfrAm) Vernon Dalhart, "The Great Titanic" (Champion 15121, 1926) (Radiex 4131=Grey Gull 4131 [as Jeff Calhoun], 1927) George Reneau, "The Sinking of the Titanic" (Vocalion 5077, 1926) Ernest V. Stoneman, "The Titanic" (OKeh 40288, 1925; rec. 1924); "Sinking of the Titanic" (Edison 51823, 1926) (CYL: Edison [BA] 5200, 1926); "Sinking of the Titanic" (on Stonemans02) William & Versey Smith, "When That Great Ship Went Down" (Paramount 12505B, 1927; on AAFM1) CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. all the other Titanic songs (plot) cf. "The Little Old Log Cabin in the Lane" (tune) NOTES: Despite this song (and other folklore), the band on the Titanic did NOT play "Nearer My God to Thee" as the ship sank. Instead, they played light music to prevent panic. The reference to rich and poor not mixing is accurate enough, though hardly unique to the Titanic. As with most liners of the time, the Titanic carried three classes of passengers: First class, second class, and steerage, for the poorest people (mostly emigrants, and mostly jammed in their cabins as tight as sardines) Steerage passengers, of course, were stuck far down in the ship. Ballad, p. 168, has a side view of the ship's plans, showing that many of the steerage passengers were four floors below the main deck, near the waterline, whereas the first class passengers were mostly above the main deck, with easy access to the lifeboats. It showed in the casualties. According to Paine, 60% of the first class passengers survived (Ballard, p. 149, reports that every child in first class, save one, survived, and she died only because she wouldn't leave her mother, who wouldn't leave her husband). 42% of second class passengers survived, but only 25% of steerage (comparable to the 24% of the crew who survived). Some versions of this, including Friedman's, have a reference to Paul's promise that "not a man should drown"; this is a reference to Acts 27:34, when Paul is on his way to Rome and the ship in which he is being held prisoner is driven by a storm. Friedman wonders if there might not be an earlier song about Paul's wreck which gave rise to a Titanic text. It seems likely enough, and the verse about Paul is a likely survival, since it is almost irrelevant in its current place in the text. In fact, we might even make a guess as to the source of the verse. Most recordings of this song use an approximation of Ernest Stoneman's tune. But Wade Mainer eventually recorded a version (not cited here because I don't know the album number) which uses a tune effectively identical to the one he uses for "Home in the Rock." So that could be a source for scripture references. To tell this from the other Titanic songs, consider the chorus: It was sad when that great ship went down, It was sad when that great ship went down. There were husbands and wives, Little children lost their lives, It was sad when that great ship went down. For an extensive history of the Titanic, with detailed examination of the truth (or lack thereof) of quotes in the Titanic songs, see the notes to "The Titanic (XV)" ("On the tenth day of April 1912") (Titanic #15) In an interesting footnote, the Ernest Stoneman version of this almost didn't get released, according to Mazor, pp. 58-59. Stoneman had recorded two songs for OKeh, and Ralph Peer and Co. decided that the two cuts were too fast for popular release. They told Stoneman, and he offered to come to the studio at his own expense and re-record them, as long as he got to record two more sides. Peer and Stoneman made the agreement, and "The Titanic" was one of the songs released as a result. - RBW Bibliography
File: LD24 Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2016 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
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02 Oct 19 - 04:30 PM (#4011610) Subject: Lyr Add: THE TITANIC (Ernest V. Stoneman) From: Jim Dixon THE TITANIC As recorded by Ernest V. Stoneman, 1924. (OKeh 40288-B) 1. It was on Monday morning just about one o’clock That the great Titanic began to reel and rock; Then the people began to cry, saying: “Lord, I'm a-going to die.” It was sad when that great ship went down. CHORUS: It was sad when that great ship went down. It was sad when that great ship went down. There were husbands and wives; little children lost their lives. It was sad when that great ship went down. 2. When they were building the Titanic, they said what they could do. They were going to build a ship that the water could not go through, For God with a mighty hand showed to the world it could not stand. It was sad when that great ship went down. CHORUS 3. When they left Engle-land they were making for the shore. The rich they declared they would not ride with the poor. So they fenced the poor below; they were the first that had to go. It was sad when that great ship went down. CHORUS 4. When Paul was out sailing with men all around, God in heaven on his throne said that man should not drown. If you trust him and obey, he will save you all today. It was sad when that great ship went down. CHORUS 5. The people on the ship were a long ways from home, With friends all around them, didn’t know their time had come; For death came riding by; sixteen hundred had to die. It was sad when that great ship went down. CHORUS 6. When the Titanic was sinking ‘cause … poor people free(?) It was there they were singing “Nearer My God to Thee”— Nearer my God to thee— When that great ship went down. |
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02 Oct 19 - 06:36 PM (#4011638) Subject: RE: Origin: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Lighter A couple of years ago, I met a man whose hobby was the Titanic. He knew every detail about the ship and the sinking. But he'd never heard of the song. |
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05 Oct 19 - 02:24 PM (#4012059) Subject: RE: Origin: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: Mrrzy Oh, they built the ship Titanic lord to last a thousand years / but the good lord could not save them from their fears is an alternate opening couplet. Also the lines When the rich refused to associate with the poor; So they put them down below, where they were first to go As a small child and already a socialist, i thought it was the rich who got sent below, for refusing to associate with the poor. Note: a cousin (3x removed) was on the Carpathia(?) that went and picked up survivors. |
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05 Oct 19 - 07:24 PM (#4012084) Subject: RE: Origin: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: GUEST,John Bowden Has anybody mentioned Hobart Smith's version? |
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05 Oct 19 - 07:57 PM (#4012085) Subject: RE: Origin: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: GUEST,Starship Hobart Smith's The Great Titanic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRFbFHNeKk8 |
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06 Oct 19 - 07:26 AM (#4012149) Subject: RE: Origin: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: GUEST,John Bowden Thanks for that Starship - I didn't have time to look for a link last night. Lovely version isn't it? John |
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06 Oct 19 - 07:27 AM (#4012150) Subject: RE: Origin: The Titanic (husbands and wives) From: GUEST,Starship You're welcome, John. Indeed it is. |