Lyr/Tune Req: Jim Crow (minstrel song, 1820)

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Lyr/Tune Req: Jim Crow (minstrel song, 1820)

10 May 01 - 06:41 PM (#460014)
Subject: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820's
From: jlp

In searching the net for information about the origins of the term Jim Crow, I found a reference which mentioned that the term "Jim Crow" was taken from a Minstrel-show song from the 1820's! I wold love to know the text and music (if possible) of this song.

Can anyone help me?

10 May 01 - 06:57 PM (#460023)
Subject: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820's
From: Sorcha

I'll bet the song is at the Levy site, but I can't get into it right now. For some interesting info Click here for the home page of a museum. Or, go directly to the Jim Crow page at the above site.

Before you all jump all over me, the site is a museum page maintained by a Black man to illustrate contemporary rascism.

10 May 01 - 08:39 PM (#460082)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Greg F.

Believe the song was popularized by "Daddy" Rice.
THIS

may be of some help.

Best, Greg

11 May 01 - 10:20 AM (#460401)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: nutty

There's a whole collection of Broadsides in the Bodleian Library encompassing Jim Crow .... The Crow Family..... Miss Jane Crow........ Billy Crow and the death of Jim Crow

They are all listed under Black Faced Minsterly and start from about 1820

11 May 01 - 01:00 PM (#460540)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Callie

According to Mezz Mezzrow's "Really the Blues", Jim Crow was a term used by persons of colour ro refer to white racists. He was writing around the 20s/30s from memory.

The book should be readily available and is a fantastic read, particularly in its references to black and white musicians being allowed to play together, and early 'mixed' recordings.

11 May 01 - 02:04 PM (#460574)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: SINSULL

The Sheet Music was available on Ebay a while back. Check there periodically.

11 May 01 - 08:46 PM (#460775)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Stewie

There is a 150 stanza version on American Memory site:

Click Here

11 May 01 - 09:16 PM (#460793)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: GUEST,petr

there is some information on pbs.org site look for the recent episode on american experience on stephen foster, theres some interesting discussion on minstrelcy. petr

11 May 01 - 11:46 PM (#460862)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Sorcha

Found this, too, click! and if you click on the image of the sheet music, it will take you to a page that lets you to to the rest of the music, one page at a time.

12 May 01 - 07:06 AM (#460934)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Hawker

There is also a singing game called 'Jump Jim Crow' which has been cleaned up to 'Jum Jim Joe' for PC reasons.

14 May 01 - 11:28 AM (#461989)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Hollowfox

If you have a chance to see the Stephen Foster show on American Experience, I think I saw a brief clip (with sound) of the song being performed.

14 May 01 - 01:52 PM (#462079)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: nutty

The earliest date of Jim Crow in a Bodleian Broadside is pre 1844 and that's from a sheet printed in England

15 May 01 - 08:41 AM (#462662)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: jlp

1) thanks for all the info so far. The background links are definitely helpful and interesting. The sheet music one seems to be a compositon much later than 1820's. The Levy site is unavailable.

2? Bodleian Library??? One item mentions "There's a whole collection of Broadsides in the Bodleian Library" I guess bradside means a kind of newspaper. But what's the Bodleian Library? Or rather, where is it? and how can I get info I need from it?

3) on the pbs site (Stephen foster) there is also some background info on this. Jump Jim Crow was not only a song but a dance.

4) I'd like to find out the lyrics to the original song, which was called, as far as can understand by in info in the various sites: "Jump Jim Crow"

15 May 01 - 08:48 AM (#462667)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler

2)The Bodleian is Oxford (UK) University main library at http://wwww.lib.bodley.ac.uk
I'm no expert but I believe Broadsides were early printed song sheets.
RtS

15 May 01 - 11:30 AM (#462776)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: nutty

jlp has started another thread - could a joe clone link them please

24 May 01 - 06:18 PM (#469837)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: jlp

I still haven't found anyone who knows the original lyrics to this song!

24 May 01 - 06:54 PM (#469863)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)

The Levy site has the lyrics. The title is Jim Crow, as sung by "Daddy" Rice at the Royal Surrey Theatre, London. "Jump, Jim Crow" is in the last line of the first verse, and is repeated in each verse. Augustus Clapp (Stephen Collins Foster) published a Jim Crow Song Jubilee later in 1847. Data also in Levy. Also a Sigmund Romberg version.

24 May 01 - 07:20 PM (#469882)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Sorcha

At The Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music, (which is back up) there is one here and another one here . There are 4 hits on Jump Jim Crow at Levy, but they are duplicates of the above. You will need to click on the "next page" or page 2 or whatever after you get to where I am sending you to see the entire song.

24 May 01 - 07:29 PM (#469889)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Stewie

Your 1820s date may be wrong. In his essay, 'Blackface Minstrelsy' - in 'Inside the Minstrel Mask: Readings in Nineteenth Century Blackface Minstrelsy' Ed Annemarie Bean, James V. Hatch and Brooks McNamara, Wesleyan Uni Press 1996 - Alexander Saxton writes:

He [Rice] tried unsuccessfully to break into New York theatre, then drifted west, working as a stagehand and bit hand throughout the Mississippi Valley. In 1831, imitating a shuffle he had seen performed by a black man on the Cincinnati levee, Rice for the first time 'jumped Jim Crow' - and Jim Crow made Rice's fortune. Adapting his act to various issues - eventually including a minstrel burlesque of Uncle Tom - Rice was applauded in London and became a perennial favorite at New York's famous Bowery Theatre. ['Inside the Minstrel Mask' p69]

Also 'ITMM', Eric Lott has an essay titled 'Blackface and Blackness'. In it, he notes that the first song sheet edition of 'Jim Crow' was published by E.Riley in the early 1830s. He quotes selected verses from it and gives his source as Sam Dennison 'Scandalise My Name: Black Imagery in American Popular Music NY, Garland Publishing 1982 pp51-57. Interestingly, Lott notes the overlaps with clown and harlequin traditions registering first 'in British productions such as "Cowardy, Cowardy Custard; or Harlequin Jim Crow and the Magic Mustard Pot" (1836)' which 'marked a trend beginning in the 1830s of appending the name Jim Crow to all sorts of British clowns and Punch-and-Judy figures' ['ITMM' p10-11].

I hope the above is of some use to you. I can post the selected stanzas that Lott quotes from the first sheet song edition of 'Jim Crow' if you wish.

--Stewie.

24 May 01 - 07:34 PM (#469892)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Stewie

The second line of the quote from Saxton in the previous posting should have read 'bit player' not 'bit hand'.

--Stewie.

24 May 01 - 07:49 PM (#469899)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Stewie

My posting crossed with Sorcha's. The songs at the Levy links differ from that quoted by Saxton which begins:

Come listen all ye galls (sic) and boys
I'se jist from Tuckyhoe
I'm goin to sing a little song
My name's Jim Crow

Weel about and turn about
And do jis so
Eb'ry time I weel about
And jump Jim Crow

--Stewie.

24 May 01 - 09:47 PM (#469958)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)

Thomas Dartmouth "Daddy" Rice seems to have Jumped Jim Crow first about 1831, took the act to New York in 1832, and then to England and Europe. The 1820 date, as noted by Stewie, has to be incorrect.

25 May 01 - 01:32 PM (#470398)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: GUEST,The Burren Ranger

Theres a very interesting chapter on the Irish roots of Minstrelsy in book 'Notes From The Heart' by PJ Curtis (Pub. Poolbeg Ireland)

25 May 01 - 10:43 PM (#470723)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)

The Bodleian site (see Guest Roger, above) has an interesting broadside about Queen Victoria and Jim Crow. One verse is: There Springed a little man from Cambridge, Rice was his name, you know. So she made him wheel and dance about, And jump Jim Crow.

Does anyone know of a reference (factual) about Rice performing with Queen Victoria in the audience?

28 Jun 01 - 03:26 AM (#493712)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: jlp

Much thanks to all for all the info. If anyone has any more tidbits to share on this subject, please do!

One problem though: I tried to get the Bodleian site at the address listed above but it doesn't work. (http://wwww.lib.bodley.ac.uk) Must be a change in the name or a typo?

28 Jun 01 - 03:41 AM (#493718)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: nutty

You need the ballad site which is seperate from the main library

www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/ballads

28 Jun 01 - 06:51 AM (#493773)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Brian Hoskin

Here's a link to that site ballads

28 Jun 01 - 06:53 AM (#493774)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Brian Hoskin

Try that again ballads

13 Jul 01 - 12:16 PM (#505781)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: jlp

thanks all -- it works, this is great

03 Oct 01 - 11:26 PM (#564679)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Lin in Kansas

Here is a link to Jim Crow Complete in 150 verses (from the Library of Congress "America Singing: Nineteenth-Century Song Sheets):

click here

I note that although we have a version of "Jim Crow" in the DigiTrad, it's not this version.

Lin

MIDI file: JIMCRO~2.MID

Timebase: 1024

TimeSig: 4/4 24 8
Key: D
Tempo: 096 (625000 microsec/crotchet)
Name: Acoustic Grand Piano
Start
3072 1 74 064 1024 0 74 000 0000 1 73 064 0512 0 73 000 0000 1 69 064 0512 0 69 000 0000 1 69 064 0512 0 69 000 0000 1 69 064 0512 0 69 000 0000 1 73 064 0512 0 73 000 0000 1 76 064 0512 0 76 000 0000 1 76 064 0512 0 76 000 0000 1 73 064 0512 0 73 000 0000 1 74 064 0768 0 74 000 0000 1 73 064 0256 0 73 000 0000 1 71 064 0512 0 71 000 0000 1 73 064 0512 0 73 000 0000 1 74 064 1024 0 74 000 0512 1 74 064 0512 0 74 000 0000 1 73 064 0768 0 73 000 0000 1 74 064 0256 0 74 000 0000 1 71 064 0768 0 71 000 0000 1 73 064 0256 0 73 000 0000 1 69 064 0768 0 69 000 0000 1 71 064 0256 0 71 000 0000 1 73 064 0768 0 73 000 0000 1 69 064 0256 0 69 000 0000 1 64 064 0768 0 64 000 0000 1 66 064 0256 0 66 000 0000 1 64 064 0768 0 64 000 0000 1 61 064 0256 0 61 000 0000 1 64 064 1024 0 64 000 1024 1 64 064 0768 0 64 000 0000 1 63 064 0256 0 63 000 0000 1 64 064 0768 0 64 000 0000 1 66 064 0256 0 66 000 0000 1 67 064 0768 0 67 000 0000 1 66 064 0256 0 66 000 0000 1 67 064 0512 0 67 000 0000 1 64 064 0512 0 64 000 0000 1 66 064 1024 0 66 000 0000 1 62 064 1024 0 62 000 0000 1 67 064 2048 0 67 000 0000 1 66 064 0768 0 66 000 0000 1 67 064 0256 0 67 000 0000 1 69 064 0512 0 69 000 0000 1 66 064 0512 0 66 000 0000 1 67 064 0768 0 67 000 0000 1 69 064 0256 0 69 000 0000 1 71 064 0512 0 71 000 0000 1 67 064 0512 0 67 000 0000 1 69 064 1024 0 69 000 0000 1 73 064 1024 0 73 000 0000 1 74 064 1024 0 74 000
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:Acoustic Grand Piano
M:4/4
Q:1/4=96
K:D
d8|cAAAceec|d3/2c/2Bcd3d|c3/2d/2B3/2c/2A3/2B/2c3/2A/2|
E3/2F/2E3/2C/2E4|E3/2^D/2E3/2F/2G3/2F/2GE|
F2D2G4|F3/2G/2AFG3/2A/2BG|A2c2d2||

28 Mar 06 - 11:38 PM (#1705273)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: chico


  (C)    G                                 C/G            C
  Come, listen all you gals and boys, ise just from Tuckyhoe;
        G       /F#    /E    /D         7         C
  I'm goin, to sing a little song, my name's Jim Crow.
  
   G    (b5)     7             C/G     F         
  Weel about and turn about and do jis so,
   C            F            G7        C
  Eb'ry time I weel about I jump Jim Crow.
  
  I went down to the river, I didn't mean to stay;
  But dere I see so many gals, I couldn't get away.
  
  Gnd arter I been dere awhile, I tought I push my boat;
  But I tumbled in de river, gnd I find myself afloat.
  
  I git upon a flat boat, I cotch de Uncle Sam;
  Den I went to see de place where dey kill'd de Packenham.
  
  Gnd den I go to Orleans, gn, feel so full of flight;
  Dey put me in de Calaboose, gn, keep me dere all night.
  
  When I got out I hit a man, his name I now forgot;
  But dere was noting left of him 'cept a little grease spot.
  
  Gnd oder day I hit a man, de man was mighty fat
  I hit so hard I nockt him in to an old cockt hat.
  
  I whipt my weight in wildcats, I eat an alligator;
  I drunk de Mississippy up! O! I'm de very creature.
  
  I sit upon a hornet's nest, I dance upon my bead;
  I tie a wiper round my neck gn, den I go to bed.
  
  I kneel to de buzzard, gn, I bow to the crow;
  Gn eb'ry time I weel about I jump jis so.
  
  
  ["Jim Crow" (1829) (G Comic Song) Words and Music by Thomas Dartmouth ("Daddy") Rice, 1808-1860. Source: page 209 from "Minstrel Songs, Old and New" (1883)]

28 Mar 06 - 11:59 PM (#1705296)
Subject: RE: Help: Jim Crow: Minstrel show-song from 1820'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

"Jim Crow Complete 150 Verses" is in American Memory, a song sheet (America Singing, Nineteenth-Century Song Sheets. Of course no version is 'complete'.
Every minstrel artist tried his hand at new verses, but those Chico gives above are as good as any.

The first verse of the 'complete' struck me as worth preserving, in light of all the arguments about patent and copyright.

One ting tickle me,
To see both brack and white,
For ebery little jig a ma gee,
Dey get a patent right.

Several other verses concern patent rights.

10 Apr 21 - 11:34 AM (#4101767)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: Jim Crow (minstrel song, 1820)
From: GUEST,#

https://www.ferris.edu/htmls/news/jimcrow/origins.htm

Interesting site regarding Jim Crow, etc.