|
14 Jun 01 - 02:42 PM (#483452) Subject: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Donuel Perhaps the US should not inspire people to do so. The "anti anti anti ballastic missile defense" sounds like the same ole cold war escalation to me. OF course they miss their target but thats why they call them missiles. The US did not sign the last bio warfare treaty either so it should be clear that bio-war labs are busy at work. I think Bush has a screw loose and it is causing his sabre to rattle. Oh Yeah its all about money - until something screws up big time and then it is all about survival. |
|
14 Jun 01 - 02:53 PM (#483465) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Justa Picker Well it's a matter of when and not if. When that nuke delivered from [name your terrorist group] strikes a major U.S. city, don't say GW didn't warn you. On this missle defense thing, I'm in agreement. Probably one of the only things I agree with GW on. |
|
14 Jun 01 - 02:56 PM (#483466) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Donuel sorry about the double post,it was taking over a minute to contact so pressed stop and tried again. While I'm here... Anyone notice the schizophrenic values we have : such as if a 14 year old from Kansas did to a dog what adults at slaughter houses are paid to do to cows , people would want him tried as an adult. In Korea people wouldn't call it a crime , they would call it " its whats for dinner ". Bill gets a hummer which he says he was sorry (right) but when a Republican gets one it is youthful indescretion (at age 41) . Save the snail darter but sacrifice the humans near chemical plants. any others? |
|
14 Jun 01 - 02:58 PM (#483468) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Amergin yawn.... |
|
14 Jun 01 - 03:01 PM (#483471) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Mountain Dog Spaw, this thread's title gives me an idea for another bum-blown ocarina - sort of a combination of the little pisser that so offended Cleigh and the little pisser in the White House. And just to be safe, you'd want to put him down a rung from Cleigh...and downstream from the leaky Belgian laddie! Just a twisted thought... |
|
14 Jun 01 - 03:03 PM (#483473) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Donuel Justa Picker , small terrorist groups would deliver their prize by suitcase. Your anti missle isn't much help. Large nations would defeat the anti missle defense with multiple launches to assure delivery. Of course Tesla said he had the defense shield answer 60 years ago. when not if?... Einstein thought so 57 years ago - and he was right. |
|
14 Jun 01 - 03:11 PM (#483479) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Justa Picker Better to have some form of deterent than none at all. |
|
14 Jun 01 - 03:12 PM (#483480) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Don Firth The problem with Star Wars defense systems and all their permutations:-- how can we be so sure that there is not a hydrogen bomb already stashed in every major city (and a few minor ones) in the world, just ready for whoever to poke a button on his control panel? If I were a maniac with the means (and I'm afraid there are some), that's the way I would do it. Of course defense spending provides jobs. But if we need to find things to do, I can think of a few other things that could use a little attention. . . . Don Firth |
|
14 Jun 01 - 03:21 PM (#483488) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Donuel Don Firth , Your idea is applicable without even having to locate them near cities. As per Dr. Strangelove " Gentlemen , there is no fighting here ! This is the war room ." |
|
14 Jun 01 - 03:27 PM (#483493) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Donuel So is biowarfare better for the economy ? With AIDs the count is at 22 million and rising. Africa sounds defeated by media reports. WWII had what (100 million casualties???) |
|
14 Jun 01 - 04:54 PM (#483559) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: McGrath of Harlow How missiles are supposed to stop people bringing a bomb in in a lorry or a boat is the puzzle.
But then stopping the bombs isn't what it's about - it's really all about putting fat contracts into the hands of the people who bankrolled the White House Resident. |
|
14 Jun 01 - 05:28 PM (#483576) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: InOBU As a US senitor once said, all they would have to do, to deliever a nuke device into the US would be to hide it in a bale of marajuana. Remember Eisenhower's warning, beware the military industrial complex. PS If bush is spend BILLIONs on this scam, and cutting taxes, my fellow AMerican's, where do you think the money is coming out of... you'll find out when you go to, try to go to a hospitial... Larry |
|
14 Jun 01 - 05:44 PM (#483591) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: mousethief It's deja vu all over again. Reagan also promised to cut taxes and raise spending. And drove us further into debt than we'd ever been before. Alex |
|
14 Jun 01 - 06:43 PM (#483646) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: kendall Some of the scientists who worked on "Star Wars" told the story on tv that it does not work, because it can not work. It's a multi million dollar boondogle that will only make other countries nervous. Hell, even Canada does not fully trust us! why should Russia? Even the most recent tests have been failures. If we would mind our own business, we would not need such expensive weapons, but, of course, it is not about protection, it is about make work, the worst kind of corporate welfare. |
|
14 Jun 01 - 06:55 PM (#483660) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: RichM Practically speaking, JustaPicker is right: " it's better to have some form of deterrent than none at all.." The Americans' deterrent in this case is the *perception* that starwars will work. It won't. As a Canadian, I can understand why the American Empire is nervous. What, you didn't think you are an empire? Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico,Panama, Pacific Territories, a naval base in Cuba against the will of it's people, interventions in the Caribbean, Kuwait, and the Far East, Military bases in Korea, DEA interventions in Columbia...the list goes on and on. When I look at the new American Embassy in Ottawa,I see the future, and it's grim. The Embassy looks like a great grey battleship, surrounded by steel fences, and concrete emplacements. Makes me nervous every time I drive by. The only hope I see is in people like YOU americans in mudcat. Hopefully, you will prevail. Cooperation is better than competition and domination! |
|
14 Jun 01 - 07:12 PM (#483677) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Peter K (Fionn) Justapicker, just keep backing Bush and the lunatic "total defence" fiction, and you'll soon have so many enemies you'll be living in a bunker. (And you still won't be safe.) Enjoy. |
|
14 Jun 01 - 07:21 PM (#483688) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: DougR Sigh. DougR |
|
14 Jun 01 - 08:09 PM (#483720) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: GUEST,aesop The Cold War is over. Why are they still spending our tax money on more weapons, and on an anti-missle defense which will never work? When it comes to education, or health care, or any social program that helps people live decent lives, the government always cries poverty. Even when there is a surplus, the first thing they want to spend it on is weapons. Bush even wants to junk the few peace treaties we have, and he doesn't even consider diplomacy. It's insanity, and it hasn't changed since the 1950s. "Oh when will they ever learn?" |
|
14 Jun 01 - 08:18 PM (#483731) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Bill D can YOU say "Maginot Line" ? umpty-leven billion$$$$ later and some guy will just set a suitcase by a gate |
|
14 Jun 01 - 08:24 PM (#483736) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: thosp i certainly agree with someone above -- "there are better things to do with the money" if you don't believe it try this blueclicketything peace (Y) thosp |
|
14 Jun 01 - 09:33 PM (#483786) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: GUEST,Rana Recall the other great Peter Sellars film - "The Mouse that Roared". Rana |
|
14 Jun 01 - 10:32 PM (#483807) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: toadfrog Gosh! I think I detest that program as much as anybody else, maybe even more, but if Justa picker thinks its right, he should be allowed to say so, without being threatened. I hope the bit about not being safe "even in a bunker" is meant to be jocular. But the threat about "having so many enemies . . ." (ostracism) is quite nasty enough. That is unnecessary. |
|
14 Jun 01 - 11:47 PM (#483834) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Peg no one has brought up Bush's desire to get the old nuclear plants up and working again...there is every indication that, since the anti-missile defense system will utilize nuclear weapon technology, the push to "get our energy infrastructure in line with the times" is actually a way of putting MORE money into Star Wars... It won't work, ever. It is a fantasy that Uncle Ronnie got all his starry-eyed fans to believe in. And blowing nuclear bombs up ('scuse me, TESTING them) in space is every bit as stupid as exploding them in the ocean or the desert...
|
|
15 Jun 01 - 01:22 AM (#483871) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: DougR I had no idea so many mudcatters were experts in the field of missle defense. I'm a bit awed since I would be among the first to admit I don't know a damn thing about them. I don't know how we got a man on the moon either but fifty years ago the man on the street would have thought it never could be done. DougR |
|
15 Jun 01 - 06:36 AM (#483958) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: kendall to quote the Doctor in Jurrasic Park, "You were so busy asking yourself if it could be done, you didnt't stop to ask if it SHOULD it be done. I'm not an expert on star wars, but, I do listen to the scientist who ARE! They say it wont work, because, it cant work. Now, Doug, should I argue with them? Do they know more about it than I do? Do they know more about it than that smirking doofus in the White House? Of course they do! It can only set off another arms race where we will be spending trillions on missles that wont work while our senior citizens go hungry and cold because they cant pay for medications and heat. And, how do WE get to be those seniors? just keep breathing, thats all you have to do. It is downright criminal the way those drug companies force their profits out of reason. I thank the creator that we have a woman here in Maine who fought for lower drug prices at the state level, and now she is going to run against Senator Susan Collins for the US Senate. I'm not only going to vote for her, but, also do everything,( legal) to get her elected. Her name is Chellie Pingree for you other Maniacs. Actually, our two republican senators havn,t been too bad in Washington, but, they help keep right wing wackos like Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond and Trent Lott in power. And, when they voted to confirm Ashcroft, I told them thay did not represent me, and, that I was going to do everything I could to get them defeated. The ball is rolling. |
|
15 Jun 01 - 08:58 AM (#484060) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Whistle Stop Seems like we've got a whole host of issues bundled together here. To get back to missile defense, communicating this objective in a balanced and effective manner is a real challenge, which GWB has not entirely mastered (Reagan, the "Great Communicator," had trouble with this as well). But even though I'm not a big fan of Bush, I do agree with him that we should be putting some effort into exploring the viability of defensive systems, rather than just relying on our good old "mutual assured destruction" strategy. No, missile defense isn't the answer to all potential dangers, but that doesn't mean there's no value in it. I think our government should be working towards this objective. We should remember that things like this never work at the conceptual and early design stages, so the fact that we don't have a pre-packaged system ready to go does not mean there's no hope for it. Unfortunately, politics requires people to express complete confidence in their ideas, otherwise they are at a rhetorical disadvantage with regard to the opposing politicians expressing complete confidence in THEIR ideas. We're probably stuck with adversarial politics to a large extent, but let's not kid ourselves that this is the best way to get to the truth of matters like this. |
|
15 Jun 01 - 09:04 AM (#484065) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: kendall How many years and billions does it take to admit that it is physically impossible? They didn't just start on this white elephant. |
|
15 Jun 01 - 09:42 AM (#484106) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: GUEST,Den at work A musical interlude: HOW LONG (by Jackson Browne)
When you look into a child's face
How long -- can you hear someone crying |
|
15 Jun 01 - 09:52 AM (#484110) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: English Jon If I was a terrorist, I'd poison the water supply. If I was a Warring Tyrant, I'd cut all trade relations, and poison the water supply. If I was an assasin, I'd poison my targets beer. I can't think of any reason why I'd need a nuclear device to do this. |
|
15 Jun 01 - 09:52 AM (#484111) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: LR Mole It wouldn't be quite so bad if we were only letting the gazillionaires play with toys. But, as the sign says, the toys are us. |
|
15 Jun 01 - 10:22 AM (#484148) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Fortunato I am an American. I did not vote for George W. Bush. If there was a referendum, I would not vote to fund a missile defense system. Nor am I an expert on anything except my life (quiet, you!) My message is this, to you all of you in Canada and around the world: George W. Bush's policies are not mine. My policy on nuclear defense and proliferation is this: total world wide disarmament. Nothing else is acceptable. Chance Shiver |
|
15 Jun 01 - 11:24 AM (#484197) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Gervase Well said, Chance! I'd have more faith in the NMD if other so-called defence systems actually worked. Remember the Patriot missiles in the Gulf War - the ones that stopped Israel from being flattened? They were complete pants. Not one succeeded in doing what it was supposed to do - which was intercept and destroy incoming ordnance before it posed a threat to Israel. Thankfully Saddam's Scuds were even less reliable. Now where did I put that old duffel bag and that lump of U235? |
|
15 Jun 01 - 11:53 AM (#484228) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: DougR English Jon: think you could sell that message to Saddam? Last words of those who block continued research and development: "Oh shit." DougR
|
|
15 Jun 01 - 12:00 PM (#484233) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Walking Eagle Such heavy chatter for a Friday! My opinion, worth just as much ae the rest expressed here, Bush better wake up and smell the coffee. If he does ANYTHING unilatterally, he'll not only piss off the bad guys, but our allies as well. I don't relish having Canada and Germany leaving the fold. Any idiot would know that if a system such as ABM is scrapped, you'd better damn well have another plan up and running before you do. The stakes are too damn high. Why is Europe so unreceptive to giving up ABM without an alternative, WORKABLE, accepable plan? Simple, they've had two major wars fought on their soil in recent time and are still having major sqwabbles due to the Soviet break up. I think European countries just MIGHT have a little knowledge about so called defense sytems. I agree with the bomb-in-a bag/truck angle as well. Oklahoma City/Nairobi/ Beirut AGAIN anyone? Lets review this AGAIN for those who didn't get the first time. Bomb makers + bomb + truck/bag = BOOOOOM! |
|
15 Jun 01 - 12:05 PM (#484238) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: GUEST Call it coincidence, but... 1) The spy plane incident with China happened - just about the time Bush was pushing to sell some high-tech gear to Taiwan (considered a rogue province by the Chinese). 2) Cheney holds a press conference and warns that the rolling blackouts California experiences could roll across the rest of the U.S. this summer - about the time Bush is trying to convince everybody that plundering the Alaskan wilderness for oil is a good idea. 3) A study of terrorist countries undertaken by some U.S. government bureaucracy wraps up with a list of those with the most enmity towards the United States - about the time Bush is trying to revive the Star Wars initiative. The juxtaposition of stories in the media can have a powerful influence over popular opinion. And the media can also be thought of as another manipulative tool for fashioning straw men to be knoced down at a profitably opportune time. When a man (Eisenhower), made in the military industrial complex's image, turns around and says 'beware' of the same, something must be rotten.... And when two oil men say we should drill in Alaska, it's about as credible as tobacco execs saying smoking doesn't cause cancer. Yeah, right. |
|
15 Jun 01 - 12:30 PM (#484265) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Walking Eagle Amen to that. It just curiouser and curouser. |
|
15 Jun 01 - 12:58 PM (#484287) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: kendall That Chinese pilots real name was Won Dum Phuk |
|
15 Jun 01 - 01:19 PM (#484302) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: Whistle Stop Let's remember a couple of things. First, worldwide disarmament is a lovely idea, provided you get the whole world to go along with it. I don't know how to do that, but I would be interested in hearing a credible plan. Anybody got one? [Emphasis on "credible," please.] Jackson Browne is a good songwriter, but not much of a policy maker. The song quoted above is a lot like "Blowin' In The Wind" -- it asks a lot of questions, but doesn't provide much of an action plan. Also, please remember that the existing ABM treaty explicitly prohibits research and development of defensive systems such as those envisioned by Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II (all four Presidents voiced support for continued R & D on missile defense, to varying degrees). If it only prohibited deployment, we could just decide to cross the deployment bridge when we had the systems perfected. Bush says, with some justification, that existing arms control agreements are based on outdated strategic thinking. He wants to modernize our thinking on this so that we don't continue to "fight the last war," as military strategists are prone to do. Bush may not be the most effective messenger, but there is some value in what he is saying, if you can cut through the rhetoric on both sides of this issue. Unfortunately, the battle lines were drawn on "Star Wars" as soon as Reagan mentioned it in the mid-1980's. All the shouting and sloganeering has tended to inhibit reasoned consideration of this, but the world will not stand still, and we will continue to avoid rational discussion of our options at our own peril. |
|
15 Jun 01 - 01:28 PM (#484310) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: DougR And, I might remind my friends who are skeptical that President Bush has emphasised that such an anit-ballistic program is not a unilateral one. Allies of the U. S. would be afforded the same protection as the U. S. I just heard Daniel Schorr on PBS (who hardly could be described as a conservative) say that we don't know that such a system could not be successful. I would guess that for every scientiest who says it cannot be done, one could be found who thinks it can. DougR |
|
15 Jun 01 - 01:31 PM (#484313) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: mousethief If we could believe in the possibility of developing reliable anti-missile defenses with existing or forseeable technologies, and could believe that they would receive universal deployment, so that NO country would be subject to bombs-from-above, then I might be willing to go along, and maybe our allies would, also. But I don't see it, and neither do they. alex |
|
15 Jun 01 - 04:20 PM (#484473) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: kendall Daniel Shorr should stick to the news business. The scientists who actually worked on the project say IT CANT BE DONE!! That the technology does not exist, and, may never exist. Besides, what happens if one of our allies becomes an ememy? Do we reposess his umbrella? How? Why dont we just start acting like Canada. Does anyone want to bomb Canada? Enemies are expensive, and God knows we have made many of them. |
|
15 Jun 01 - 05:11 PM (#484534) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: DougR Oh Ye of little faith. |
|
15 Jun 01 - 05:12 PM (#484537) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: mousethief In technological progress? Please.
"I've gone off the idea of progress. It's overrated." Alex |
|
15 Jun 01 - 05:51 PM (#484580) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: GUEST,Joe well As I see it the star wars defense might work but what about other problems that might rise from it as it mistake a space shuttle for a missle and blows it to hell and back. I feel it will ultimately be a waste of money because there are other ways of destroying things and it has been proven that any idiot with a little know how can blow up a building such as terroists do.I feel we should use the money for our education systems our Social Security and disability programs. I could of course go on anout how my government is frecked up and before any says I voted for them I have found most the time that doesn't matter because all poloticians lie and money does corrupt |
|
15 Jun 01 - 06:50 PM (#484636) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: DougR Hmm. Guest Joe, you sound a bit disillusioned with government. |
|
15 Jun 01 - 10:37 PM (#484779) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: toadfrog Daniel Schorr is one of my heros. He said, we don't know (for certain) that it won't work. I respectfully submit, before we spend that kind of money and make all those foreign enemies, we should be very, very certain that it does work. And no matter who you believe, we aren't certain of that. The possible advantage of SDI is extremely speculative. The down side, especially taken together with all those tax cuts, is that the scheme could bankrupt the United States government. But if you hate the government, maybe that isn't a down side. And that angle namely, the link to a real right-wing-crazy, hate-the-government standpoint, scares hell out of me. And another thing that scares hell out of me, is the point George Soros raised the other day on NPR, which is that to justify this project Bush may have to bring back the cold war - make us some more enemies, create some threats. For the moment, I'll give Bush the benefit of the doubt on that, but . . . |
|
15 Jun 01 - 11:44 PM (#484806) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: DougR Toadfrog: I don't want to disillusion you about Daniel Shorr, he did say what I said he said, but he expressed doubt that it would work. That make you feel better? The cost of the anti-missle program would cost nothing in comparison to the cost of fighting another world war. In dollars, and in lives. DougR |
|
16 Jun 01 - 12:08 AM (#484825) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: toadfrog Doug, I'm sure you correctly cited Shorr. I'm also sure that building the anti missile shield would be cheaper that fighting another world war. Surely you are correct in saying that. On the other hand, I don't see any great likelihood of our getting into another world war, things being as they are, unless, in order to justify the SDI program (which serves a number of domestic purposes having nothing whatsoever to do with defense) our leaders feel compelled to alienate a lot of foreign powers and for that reason get us into a world war. That was George Soros's point. I'm not sure I think George Bush is capable of that. There is not the slightest doubt in my mind but what if the Right Wing of his party had their way, they would quickly make the United States such an unbearable neighbor that everyone would be forced to wage war against us, to preserve civilization. |
|
16 Jun 01 - 12:15 AM (#484828) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com In WWII they certainly had a desire to torpedo some Canadian harbors..St. John's and Halifax. mg |
|
16 Jun 01 - 12:36 AM (#484838) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: GUEST,Don Meixner Kendall mentioned the solution to all of this debate but you have to read it correctly to realize that he has the answer. The solution is in your local vote, not some hopefully candidate on a national level. Support the person who carries your message and support them right into office. If enough local votes for congessmen can get people of a similar mind inyto office then amazing things can be done. But they have to begin on local level first. We also have to remember that solutions never occur overnight. Problems seem to somehow but the solutions never do. I remebre when Jimmy Carter wanted to promote alternative fuels during the great fuel shortage of the 80's and the Republicans said it was a waste of time, it would take twentu years of work and research before any meaningful and affordable fuels could be developed. So nothing was done and twenty years later the shoe is on the other foot. And we are still twenty years away from fuels that are affordable. ( Iknow about bio fuels and sunflower diesel but there is other parts of the infrastructure needed to make any great changes possible.) And I too believe that the next nuke will either be power company screw up or it will be delivered by FedEx and come COD. Don |
|
16 Jun 01 - 01:24 AM (#484853) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: DougR First, Don, it's not a debate. It's just a lot of people expressing opinions based, one would hope, on some research or knowledge of the subject, but more likely on emotion IMOH. I assume you are implying that this whole energy problems is a result of republican shortsightedness. I don't think so. Seems to me that the republicans have been encouraging the U. S. to become less dependent on foreign suppliers of oil by drilling our own right here in the good old USofA, since the "Actor's" (as Kendall refers to him) administration, but the democrats, who are scared s--tl--s of the evironmental extremists, have blocked every effort to do so. So, we have a huge increase in demand, but no way to provide what is needed, without paying through the nose for it. And folks don't like that either. DougR |
|
16 Jun 01 - 01:26 AM (#484855) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: BlueJay I think SDI is a pie-in-the sky fantasy. Mainly corporate welfare, like all the failed planes and helicopters that crash the U.S. military has poured billions into in the last decade. Somebody is smiling all the way to the bank, but not the families of our scores of dead aircraft crew. Meanwhile, here in Colorado the percentage of companies offering health insurance to their employees has fallen to just over 50%, (according to the Denver Post). Sure, if you land a job with a major corporation, you'll be allowed to spend three or four hundred bucks a month for spotty coverage. But if you work for a small, independent business, you probably won't have health coverage at all. And thanks to Medicare and Medicaid rule changes, hospital consolidation, and the fraud of "managed care", an uninsured lady with breast cancer will be denied treatment in Colorado. Just left to die. Likewise other afflictions except immediate emergencies, which must be treated. I know this seems off topic, but just ask the folks denied health care for terminal illnesses if they give a flying fuck about "Star Wars" defense. I think not. Bill and Hillary had it right, but were shot down. We should provide at least basic, affordable health care for every citizen, BEFORE ensuring profitability for the military-industrial complex with dreams like SDI. |
|
16 Jun 01 - 07:43 AM (#484926) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: GUEST,DonMeixner Gee Doug, it sure sounds like a debate to me. One omomng friends over beers at the pub or in the fishing camp. Damn right I blame the Reoublicans, just as much as I blame the Democrats. I blame the notion of us or them politics on the national level. Neither side has done a thing to ensure adequate energy supplies except to nay say the othersides ideas or good intentions. Unless the US is willing to go back into the ground or really develop bio fuels, wind farms and Hydro, we are hostage to foreign oil and nuclear power plants. Yikes I forgot solar power. I can't understand why we don't spend more time in R&D to develop save ways to burn bituminous coal and old tires, drill in the earth without fear of environmental impact or on the ocean floor for that matter. We just complain about the cost and do nothing but blunder on with old technologies. I am amazed that we don't do more with Hydro, middle priced to build but chaep to run and not decommision costs. And they CAN BE environmental friendly. Unlike nuclear in all respects. Don |
|
16 Jun 01 - 01:35 PM (#485033) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: DougR Do we know for certain, Don, that such research is NOT going on? I certainly don't. I believe if research by anyone, of alternative fuel sources to replace our dependence on oil results in a product, it will be embraced. The need is now, though, and discovery of such a product may not come for years. DougR |
|
16 Jun 01 - 08:15 PM (#485188) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: GUEST,Don Meixner Doug, I am sure research is being done. But not as a national policy. That is what I want to see. Neither the the Republicans or the Democrats have done a thing regarding a national policy except ridicule each others lack of the same. A "Manhattan Project" to find a fuel or energy source that is available without being held hostage to someone's notion of foreign policy. Your are correct, the need is now but the solution is a ways off. Remember my earlier comment? The need was "Now" in 1980 and no one did anything except say that the solution was a long way. It still is. I agree with you Doug, we someone to take the reins and get it done, Clinton didn't and i don't see Bush doing it either. Big power business won't because of vested interests so that leaves garage mechanics and basement inventors to do it on a grass roots level. And thats where I see the salvation of all of us coming. From the local people working locally and regionally. Don |
|
16 Jun 01 - 08:54 PM (#485209) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: DougR But Bush did appoint a committee that came up with a Energy Policy, something I guess we hadn't had before. Do you know if any part of it delt with R&D on alternate energy sources? Oops. I guess this discussion really belongs on the Gas thread, doesn't it. Sorry for the thread creep that I guess begain a few postings back. DougR |
|
17 Jun 01 - 09:13 PM (#485691) Subject: RE: BS:Bush fears US will get 'blowed up' From: GUEST,Joe |