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the soldier/minstral boy

24 Jun 01 - 09:04 PM (#491032)
Subject: the soldier/minstrel boy
From: GUEST

just listened to old lp record "robert white sings beethoven" including "soldier" among a group of irish, scottish, welsh songs that beethoven had put to music. the tune of the soldier is basically the same as "the minstrel boy". the notes say that "sally in our ally " is another familiar tune to another familiar song but i have to admit i don't know know it by any name...

number of other interesting songs whose words i would like to get...... .the return to ulster...... the pulse of an irishman..... on the massacre of glencoe the british light dragoons tis sunshine at last

thanks for any help

johntm


24 Jun 01 - 10:04 PM (#491065)
Subject: RE: the soldier/minstral boy
From: Sarah2

johntm,

I know there have been several threads about Glencoe, so here's whatcha do:

First, try the Digitrad. See the blue box at the top of this thread? Click on the letter of the first important word of a song title ("The" doesn't count), and follow your nose down to the title of the songs you're looking for.

If that doesn't work, try the Search and Supersearch filters in that box or at the top of the Forum. Type in the most important word of a title (remembering that there may be variations in spelling) and check the songs and threads that come up for you to look at.

If the version you hit in the Digitrad isn't the one you're looking for, don't forget to try the "Next Page" clicky thing -- sometimes it leads to the version you're after.

Then let us know if there are any you just can't locate.

Sarah


24 Jun 01 - 10:14 PM (#491070)
Subject: RE: the soldier/minstral boy
From: Sorcha

Thread on Sally in Our Alley, here(click)
Massacre of Glencoe

The others on the list are ONLY showing up on the Beethoven CD--I don't know what that means...


24 Jun 01 - 10:47 PM (#491089)
Subject: RE: the soldier/minstral boy
From: Sarah2

You're right, Sorcha (as usual) -- I did some searches and came up with only a "British Light Infantry" in the DT. Lotsa threads re Ulster, but I didn't check every one that looked promising; I have to go away soon for a bit.

So, johntm, tell us more about these songs: where did you hear them, who was singing, what's the gist of each song, do you remember any snatches of the lyrics...? Every little lead helps. 'Catters thrive on this, but all hints are considered clues of great import...

Alas, commitments call. Will check back and try to search more later. ('Course, by then, the Mudcat Honor will doubtless have been upheld by others, and all your queries answered. Ah, well; we part-timers do what we can.)

Sarah


24 Jun 01 - 11:05 PM (#491093)
Subject: RE: the soldier/minstral boy
From: GUEST

"Sally in our alley" (Of all the girls that are so smart) is by Henry Carey. The tune seems to be first found in Walsh's 'Compleat Country Dancing Master', II, 1719, and later in ballad operas. Words and music in Carey's 'Musical Century', 1737.

I think there's an old thread here on the 'Minstrel Boy'


26 Jun 01 - 06:48 PM (#492523)
Subject: RE: the soldier/minstral boy
From: GUEST

thanks for your help folks johntm


28 Jul 01 - 09:20 PM (#516895)
Subject: RE: the soldier/minstral boy
From: GUEST,jtm

Folks Sorry I had to drop in with a quick thank you months ago. My job (or ex job)interfered with a lot of things.

First: The liner notes to the "Robert White Sings Beethhoven" LP (thank God for second hard stores) says "occasionally one is pleasantly surprised to recognize a familar tune, often disguised by an unfamilar text--Sally in Our Alley and The Minstrel Boy( The Soldier)...."

The song on the LP is "The Soldier". The arrangement by Beethoven is very similar to "The Minstrel Boy". Does anybody know the words to "The Soldier"? Hard to pick them out of White's singing. And any of the history of the song. The notes to the album say that George Thomson in 1803 asked Beethoven to provide arrangements to a number of Irish and Scottish tunes, including those above.

I found the words to "The Pulse of an Irishman" on a Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau recording of Beethoven songs. Alexander Boswell listed as the author.

The pulse of an Irishman ever beats quicker when war is the story, or love is the theme; and place him where bullets fly thicker and thicker you'll find him all cowardice scorning. And tho' a bakk should main poor Darby light at the heart he rallies on "Fortune is cruel. but Norah, my jewel, is kind, and with smilling, all sorrow bequiling, shall bid from our cabin all care to be gone, and how they will jig it, and tug at the spigot, on Patrick's day in the mornin'."

O blest be the land in the wide western waters, sweet Erin, lov'd Erin, the pride of my song; still brave be her sons, and still fair be the daughters thy meads and thy mountains adorning! And tho' the the eastern sun seems tardy, tho' the pure light of knowledge slow, night and delusion, and darking confusion like mists from the river shall vanish for ever and true Irish hearts with warm loyalty glow: and pround exaltation burst forth from the nation on Patrick's day in the monrin'.

Thomson apparently liked only songs that were uplifting an fit for decent company, and this seems to fit.

But again does anyone know anything about this song or "The Soldier" or the tune behind "The Minstrel Boy"? How much did Moore rip off from Beethoven?

Thanks for all the earlier comments jtm


28 Jul 01 - 10:23 PM (#516917)
Subject: RE: the soldier/minstral boy
From: Malcolm Douglas

Moore's The Minstrel Boy was set to a much older tune called Mórín, or The Moreen.  It was printed in Charles Villiers Stanford's edition of George Petrie's Complete Collection of Irish Music (vol. 3, 1905-ish) as no. 1067; Petrie got it from the O'Neill MS. of 1787.  The tune is available at Bruce Olson's  Roots of Folk:

ABC's of Miscellaneous 18th Century English, Scots and Irish Tunes

Alternatively, the same file may be accessed through  JC's ABC tune finder,  (search for moreen) where you will also have the option of hearing it as midi or seeing staff notation.


30 Jul 01 - 12:14 AM (#517484)
Subject: RE: the soldier/minstral boy
From: GUEST,jtm

Thanks Malcolm Any idea about words to The Soldier or anything about that tune? jtm


30 Jul 01 - 10:23 AM (#517656)
Subject: RE: the soldier/minstral boy
From: dick greenhaus

Richard Dyer-Bennet once recorded Beethoven's Scotch (sic) Songs and Irish Songs. Tunes were traditional; words were commissioned.

It's been a long time, but the one set to St. Patrick's Day started out:

Tho' dark are the hours, today we'll forget them
And smile through our tears like a sunbeam through show'rs
There never were hearts, if our rulers would let them
More formed to be grateful and blessed than hours.
But just when the chain has ceased to pain
And hope has enwreath'd it about with flow'rs
There comes a new link, our spirit to sink
Oh the joy that we know, like the light at the Pole
Is a flash amidst darkness, too brilliant to stay
But tho' 'twere the last little light in our soul
We must light it up now on our good Prince's day.