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27 Jun 01 - 02:18 PM (#493192) Subject: Appalachian song: casting soundtracks? From: Desert Dancer The recent soundtracks of "O Brother, Where Art Thou" and "Songcatcher" have featured songs from the American southern Appalachian tradition (and what those mountain songs were doing down in Mississippi in OBWAT we won't ask). To my eye, which is admittedly rather ignorant of the southern traddy scene, some of the folks who made it on to the soundtracks, (or the commercial cd release, in OBWAT's case) were performers with more name recognition to offer than real dues paid in researching and singing real traditional music. (Or is this just that I only know them from their commercial material, and not their lovely unsellable traddy stuff?) If you were "casting" the soundtracks of either of these movies, who would you pick? Who are some of the folks out there who really know their stuff and sound like it? Two rules: 1) the performers must be currently active (sorry, Lee Monroe Presnell is not available), and if they've got recordings &/or web sites you can send people to, cite them and that'll make this a more useful exercise; 2) if you think any of the folks that were cast were the best for the job, defend your position! Recordings and links useful here, too. Info on the soundtracks for these two movies can be found here: O Brother, Where Art Thou Songcatcher soundtrack (and a quicker way to get to the relevant info also available at the film's site O Brother performers (they did use some vintage recordings, as well): The Whites, Alison Krauss & Union Station, John Hartford, Ralph Stanley, the Fairfield Four, Emmylou Harris, The Cox Family, Norman Blake and The Nashville Bluegrass Band, Gillian Welch, The Peasall Sisters Songcatcher performers: Rosanne Cash, Taj Mahal, Iris DeMent, Dolly Parton, Emmy Rossum, Emmylou Harris, Allison Moorer, Patty Loveless, Julie Miller, Maria McKee, Sara Evans, Gillian Welch, David Rawlings & David Steele, Deana Carter, Hazel Dickens, David, Patrick, Kelly & Bobby McMillon, Pat Carroll I've got two reasons for asking. One is so I can learn more about who's out there on the American scene (I've had a Brit bias lately), and second is to use this as an ancillary to the debate on how (or some might say, whether) to sell more people on traditional music. (There are some interesting contributions to this on the Musical Traditions site here (lengthy and in dense academic language) and here (look for Russ Hatton's letter on "The Tarnished Image") (I believe I fall on this folkie carmudgeon's side), and in Ian Robb's column in the latest issue of Sing Out! (Vol. 45, #2, Summer 2001), and a contribution from Brian Peters in Jeff Davis's Traditional Music column in the Folk Alliance newsletter (Vol. 12, #1, Jan/Feb. 2001). I'll submit my response in a separate post. ~ Becky in Tucson (Sorry I've run out of time to add the links to previous discussions of those movies. Later.) |
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28 Jun 01 - 11:22 AM (#493979) Subject: RE: Appalachian song: casting soundtracks? From: Pinetop Slim refresh |
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28 Jun 01 - 12:48 PM (#494062) Subject: RE: Appalachian song: casting soundtracks? From: GUEST,Russ DD, How can I ignore a post with a reference to my letter to Musical Traditions? If everyone who read it got together we might just have enough for a bridge game. I have not yet seen SongCatcher, so I can only comment on OBWAT. First, My wife and I loved the movie. It struck us as one of the most imaginative and entertaining things we have ever seen on the silver screen. We think that the music contributed significantly to the success of the movie. Second, we loved the movie in spite of the fact that we are both obsessed with "hard core" "traditional music." You ask if some of the musicians on the sound track "were performers with more name recognition to offer than real dues paid in researching and singing real traditional music." I assume this is a rhetorical question. I also assume that the people who conceived of, secured financing for, and created the final product felt that it was their goal to bring into existence a "good" movie rather than a documentary. I assume that at least part of their definition of "good" included some degree of commercial success. But I also assume commercial success was not the only factor operative in the choice of musicians for the soundtrack. I find it hard to believe that anyone in his/her right mind could have thought that the movie would do much more than cover costs (at best) no matter who appeared on the sound track. Thus, I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that "good" also included some degree of artistic integrity. So finally, I assume that the people who appear on the soundtracks are there because someone sincerely felt that they were appropriate and sounded good. Given all the constraints, I think OBWAT succeeded musically beyond my wildest expectations. Without going into a detailed examination and discussion of credentials I am willing to go out on a limb and claim that everybody who appears in the OBWAT sound track are solidly rooted in "real traditional music" whatever their current musical proclivities. I also doubt that most people who are currently doing "real traditional music" would have serious MUSICAL problems with any of the names on the list. If I were casting the soundtrack, I might have used more old recordings and fewer live musicians, but it would be a tough call. This is because IMHO the living musicians who appeared on the soundtracks "really know their stuff and sound like it." I think that both movies have a hell of a lineup of musicians. I am not suggesting that the movie had no problems. It proved, however, such a pleasant surprise that I tend to discount them. |
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28 Jun 01 - 01:14 PM (#494079) Subject: RE: Appalachian song: casting soundtracks? From: Desert Dancer Thanks, Pinetop, you beat me to it! Russ, I haven't seen Songcatcher yet, but it looks like they put more thought into the soundtrack, since of course the soundtrack is even more of the point of the movie than OBWAT's. (But likely Songcatcher won't have as a wide an audience and impact as OBWAT.) The interesting thing about OBWAT is that for the CD release, in some cases they used different performers (those named above) than were heard in the actual movie. And the only way to get to those people's names is by sitting in the theater thru the end of the credits... Maybe I'm just overly defensive, and if it sounds good and gets the music out there, then it's o.k., but I keep thinking it might be nice to put some of those great but less familiar folks out there... There are more names that I don't recognize on the Songcatcher list, which I suspect means they're more hardcore. Other than the big commercial names, and Hazel Dickens (who's a big name to folkies), I only recognize Bobby McMillon from encountering him on staff at CDSS's Pinewoods Folk Music Week last year. (Thanks, Sara Grey!) Is Deana Carter a member of The Family? Anyone know any of the other folks and can enlighten me? And, perhaps little catty of me, having not heard him: was Taj Mahal included only for the ethnic diversity category, or does he have any prior clawhammer banjo experience? and is a blues style appropriate to the mountain setting of Songcatcher? And, to submit names in general, in the category of "contemporary trad. Appalachian singers/players" here are a couple I can think of: Mike Seeger - any flavor banjo playing you need, to say nothing of other instruments and singing. Here. Rayna Gellert - a young North Carolinian and the current vocalist with the Freight Hoppers also touring as a duo with Frank Lee. Plays fiddle and sings. She can do wonderful things with an unaccompanied song, though she spends more time with the string band era stuff. See this site. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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28 Jun 01 - 01:21 PM (#494084) Subject: RE: Appalachian song: casting soundtracks? From: Desert Dancer Let me try that again - Mike Seeger's web site is here. |
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29 Jun 01 - 12:50 PM (#494869) Subject: RE: Appalachian song: casting soundtracks? From: Desert Dancer Refresh |
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30 Jun 01 - 07:38 PM (#495619) Subject: RE: Appalachian song: casting soundtracks? From: Anglo I had never even heard of Dan Tyminski before seeing this movie (Oh Brother, that is), then seeing the live music appearances on the late-night talk shows. But what a great singer! The Kossoys were in the soundtrack (I'll Fly Away, I think) but not on the CD (which I don't have) or the live appearances. They should have been. I thought the movie was lots of fun. Sometimes I wish reviewers would comment on what a movie was, rather than give their opinions on what they thought it ought to have been. I await Songcatcher, and Passions, which don't seem to have made it to my neck of the woods yet. At least there's relevant subject material. Thread creep alert. I was sidetracked for a couple of days by the MusiTrad references above, then from that into the Elizabeth Cronin debate (it's amazing the passion that is engendered by debate about traditional music - as someone once put it, we fight so hard because the stakes are so small). But since Russ has posted to this thread I'll take this opportunity to say GREAT JOB. Terrific letter. Very gentle. I wish I could have put it as well myself. I would say that Dr. Brocken seems to be the ultimate personification of the very essence of ejut. Perhaps he could join Mudcat, or maybe one has to be enrolled in his institute to get the benefit of his erudition. unless he's actually "publishing" somewhere. |
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01 Jul 01 - 12:45 AM (#495730) Subject: RE: Appalachian song: casting soundtracks? From: catspaw49 DD, let's face it, Hollywood ain't history and it's refreshing to hear from a few performers that are deeply rooted or at least well schooled and knowledgable about folk/trad as that's not often the case. We have had other long discussions about learning history from Hollywood and also the inaccuracies in both casting and equipment used in "musician films." As far as these two go, well........We have a lot of people who are active members here who could do these things and do them better. Some are extremely good like Rick Fielding and Art Thieme while others just haven't recorded as Rick and art have, but no producer is coming to find the best necessarily, but only the best with some name recognition.......and even then.........RE: "Songcatcher"......let's not forget that two almost legendary collectors are members here, Sandy and Caroline Paton, and that the great Jean Ritchie is here a good bit too. So I think I can truthfully say that the Mudcat could easily handle the casting all by itself. Spaw |
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01 Jul 01 - 09:45 AM (#495848) Subject: RE: Appalachian song: casting soundtracks? From: Peg well, I see your point about this film...I also wondered why there were more "popular" singers in the soundtrack. But Iris Dement appears in the film and sings and she is not what I would call a folk popstar, exactly... They could have gotten non-traditional singers to sing this stuff, but they didn't. Can you imagine the soundtrack of this film with Jewel, Sarah Maclachlan, Ani Difranco, etc.?
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02 Jul 01 - 07:51 AM (#496467) Subject: RE: Appalachian song: casting soundtracks? From: mkebenn Desert Dancer, Deana is the daughter of Nashville session guitarist great Fred Carter Jr. I saw "Songcatcher" Sunday, and I loved it. I could almost taste the 'shine! Mike |
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03 Jul 01 - 07:55 AM (#497361) Subject: RE: Appalachian song: casting soundtracks? From: Roger in Baltimore Becky in Tucson, 1. Banjo has been in Taj's performance repertoire for quite a while. 2. More and more scholars have come to believe that Appalacian music derives from a blending of Celtic and Afro-American music. So maybe Taj was not all that inappropriate. 3. Just up from the Mississippi delta, is the hill country. Field recordings in the hill country reveal Appalacian music played by African-American string bands. There is more common groundl than we may have at first supposed between the Celtic (mainly white) and the blues (mainly black) traditions. Roger in Baltimore |
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03 Jul 01 - 01:07 PM (#497613) Subject: RE: Appalachian song: casting soundtracks? From: GUEST,Russ Anglo, thanks for the positive feedback. Rod DIDN'T post my criticism of the Cronin review. But no hard feelings. |
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03 Jul 01 - 01:43 PM (#497639) Subject: RE: Appalachian song: casting soundtracks? From: Desert Dancer I saw O Brother again this weekend in the theater and then went home and spent more time with the web sites. Both the movie and the soundtrack web sites have a lot more info on the performers than I had dug into previously, but nothing on those only credited in the movie. I guess now that it's out on video we'll have the opportunity to actuall READ the credits... And yeah, the music was great, I've never denied that! I'm anxiously awaiting Songcatcher, though (since that material is even closer to my heart). Heard from someone that they saw a "coming soon" poster at a theater in town. Roger, I'm confident of the black influence on Appalachian music, and certainly on the banjo. But, does Taj Mahal usually play clawhammer? And are the blues appropriate? (and remember, I'm only going on the publicity info about his playing in the movie, where they describe "claw hammer" playing and a "totally new thing". !)(and I know there's a whole cd of black banjo stuff, and a recent book by Ceclia Conway, out there that I haven't heard and should...) There is a wonderful 1963 recording of Dave Thompson of Sugar Grove, North Carolina, on Folk-Legacy's recent "Songs of Tradtion" cd. Frank Proffitt led them to him... His performance sounds in no way bluesey (though it's not clawhammer either). Sample size of 1, of course. But, ultimately, my point in starting this thread is to enlarge the already too long list of stuff I should be listening to, so I'm still looking for specific suggestions on contemporary performers... ~ Becky in Tucson |