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HTML Practice Thread

21 Jul 01 - 12:47 AM (#511781)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: Marion

Note: this is a list of Web sites of performers, primarily folk musicians. The major lyrics Web sites are listed in the Mudcat FAQ, and many other lyrics sources are listed on our Links page. Thanks to all the people who have contributed links to this list. If you'd like to add or correct something, please post a message below.
-Joe Offer-

Multi-Performer Sites

Individual Performers

Jim Dixon's List

Sheet Music
For sheet music that's in the public domain, there's To humor Catspaw, I guess we'd better include his contribution:
Here you can find The Grateful (and Ungrateful) Dead
[sigh....]

26 Jul 01 - 11:58 AM (#514976)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: Marion

Hey, somebody made me my very own practice thread! Thanks joeclone.

this post

26 Jul 01 - 12:13 PM (#514995)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread-napping
From: MudGuard

Marion, this is a threadnapping! I just took over "your" thread!

No, threads with titles like HTML-Practice are shortened from time to time by the JoeClones.

26 Jul 01 - 12:22 PM (#515004)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: Marion

Joeclone! Please come and disappear MudGuard's post!

I'll have you know, MudGuard, before they haul your ass away, that the practice posts that were before and after mine disappeared. You think you're so cool with your red and yellow and big letters, but I have powerful friends.

Cheers, Marion

26 Jul 01 - 12:29 PM (#515008)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: MudGuard

I could do it in any colors! and much more tricks if I wanted, but now I have to run in fear of your powerful friends ...

;-)

MudGuard

26 Jul 01 - 06:21 PM (#515340)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: Sorcha

LOL!!! What a list, Marion, I'm impressed! Hey, MudGaurd, explain me exactly how to link to a specific post or to a SuperSearch results page....pretty please?

26 Jul 01 - 06:58 PM (#515380)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: Noreen

Sorch, if you right-click on the time of a specific posting in the list at the top of the thread, eg 06.21 PM for yours above, and copy the shortcut, it will link to that post.

26 Jul 01 - 07:04 PM (#515381)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: Pene Azul

Sorcha,

Search results:
http://supersearch.mudcat.org/@ssdtresults.cfm?query=search+words+here

Indiv. message:
/Detail.CFM?messages__Message_ID=message number

26 Jul 01 - 07:55 PM (#515424)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: Sorcha

ahhh, thank you both!

27 Jul 01 - 03:11 AM (#515697)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: JohnInKansas

I've just found a gap in my super-allknowing-entirelycomplete HTML reference.
It tells me how to code a whole bunch of characters, but I can't find anything that says precisely

Which characters do NOT need to be coded?

My recent shock was that "&047;" has to be coded (&047; or &slash;).
Thought this was a regular character.
A full colon doesn't seem to have to be coded, but since a semicolon is used as a code terminator, does it need to be coded?

Anybody have a list of the "Standard Character Set?"

27 Jul 01 - 03:48 AM (#515713)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: Pene Azul

Here's a nice one, John.

Jeff

27 Jul 01 - 07:17 AM (#515783)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: JohnInKansas

Pene:

I have that info, although it's a nice list. I note that they use 2 digit numerics for the low number codes. My main ref (O'Reilly) says that all such should be 3 digits, with leading zeros for the low numbered ones. I know quite a few other programs that balk at the 2 digit input. I guess that's something for future inquiry.

What I want is a list of the characters that DONT require codes.

I know I don't have to write &"065; to get an A, for instance, even though that works.

I did get suckered when I tried to use " / " to break measures in a tune - it apparently has to be coded, as would be expected since it has the special "end" meaning in code.

Apparently a colon " : " comes across okay just typed in, but I'm not sure about a semicolon.

27 Jul 01 - 07:23 AM (#515785)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: JohnInKansas

Get another cup of coffee, John:

A = A ?

Misread my table, the " above should of course have been a "hash".

John

28 Jul 01 - 04:34 AM (#516560)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: MudGuard

in HTML the following characters need to be coded if they should appear in text:

& &
< &lt;
> &gt;
" &quot;

All other characters with a code between 32 and 127 may be coded, but there is no need to. All characters with codes between 128 and 255 are code-page-dependant (i.e. what is shown in the browser depends on what codepage is defined for the html file) All characters with codes above 255 must be coded.

28 Jul 01 - 09:17 AM (#516603)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: JohnInKansas

MudGuard:
I pretty sure you're right. I believe my problem came from the program I was using for off-line viewing (preview) of the HTML.
I tried to post a song with chords, in a >PRE< section, and because of some off-beat synchopation, I marked measures using a slash " / " to show where the lyric was offset relative to the chord stroke.
It probably would have been okay if I had posted it as written, but I decided to get clever and preview it first.
I had it set up in MickeySoft Word, and did a save-as html, and it looked okay.
Going back now, and looking at the html in what I posted, I see that for some reason, the line breaks that came immediately in front of a Word paragraph break " ¶ " AND a " / "were deleted (or partially deleted?).

In other words:
>br<¶/ got changed to ¶/ only.
Where the >br<¶ was followed by anything else, its seemed to come across okay.

I'm sure the breaks were there originally, since I put them in with a global replace operation.
Since the original blew up on me when I sent it, I had to do some retyping, which I did in Word doc view. Since coming back from html view to doc view hides the html, I didn't see what had happened then.

I've seen some rather bizarre behavior from the Word ¶ mark. Its a composite character where the file characters (multiple - approximating but not exactly a linefeed plus carriage return?) are different than the display character (what you see on screen if you select to show them).

I think this is a Word html converter problem, probably peculiar to the program I used on my machine and not something relating to html in general. Someday soon I'll have to look over my tool box and actually learn how to use what's in the html tools.

John

28 Jul 01 - 09:22 AM (#516606)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: JohnInKansas

Hadn't realized I'm getting so liberal from hanging around youze guys that I can't tell a less than from a greater than and all thans are interchangeable.
D... I'm starting to sound like them
I AM trying to get better at this!
John

28 Jul 01 - 06:32 PM (#516813)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: MudGuard

I am sure I am right as I read this info straight from the HTML standard.

Microsoft Word "Save as HTML" does not save your file in HTML format, it just saves your stuff in a file called something.html and there are some HTML-Elements put into that file among many other things which don't have anything to do with HTML.

MudGuard

28 Jul 01 - 08:24 PM (#516861)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: Noreen

Lyr Req:

28 Jul 01 - 08:26 PM (#516864)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: Noreen

a relative link

29 Jul 01 - 08:56 PM (#517424)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: JohnInKansas

MudGuard:
I certainly wasn't intending to question the accuracy of your information. My only question was whether I understood it, in relation to the information I was looking for.
From what I see in the HTML Standard (4.01) the characters you listed are the ones that a new document is "guaranteed" will be read correctly if encoded as shown.
I may be trying to read more into the Std than is there, but it appears that an HTML server (via a charset= statement in it's header file) is permitted define a "charset" that, once defined, allows you to just type any character on your keyboard - if it's in the character set, and of course if it's on your keyboard.
A "proper" HTML file being sent to a receiving interpreter may define the charset it wants to use, which may or may not be implemented, depending on whether the receiving device has the files and fonts to implement it.
The Std notes that many older servers do not have the ability to recognize and implement a charset declaration.
Since a "submit" to Mudcat is actually an insertion into an existing "document" it would be unwise for anyone to try to mess with the charset definition. The Std appears to allow declaration of a special set for an insertion, but if it is not known that the definition and fonts are "known" by the "document" that is going to do the display, at best, it's not going to do anything useful, and it could trash the document.
As to using Word with HTML:
The first thing to admit is that I was using it incorrectly. When you "save as html," Word assumes that there is no coding already in the document. It pastes a "canned" header on, and replaces that pesky ¶ metacharacter with an ASCI 11. It does not seem to recognize any code that is already there, but that's still an open question for me.
If a document has code already included, even just for single characters, the proper procedure is to save it as plain text (ASCII Text) and then change the file extension to "htm." This lets you open it in a "real" html viewer like IE.
Our (US) Cival Servants have an expression - "Fighting Feathers" - that describes an excessive concern and expenditure of effort on things that don't really matter.
Should I say "Phft Phft" to get them out of my mouth?
Thanks for your help. It is appreciated.

John

30 Jul 01 - 01:58 AM (#517507)
Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
From: Marion

Note: this is a list of Web sites of performers, primarily folk

musicians. The major lyrics Web sites are listed in the href=http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=19340>Mudcat FAQ, and many other lyrics sources are listed on

our Links page. Thanks to all the people who have

contributed links to this list. If you'd like to add or correct something, please post a message below.
-Joe

Offer-

Multi-Performer Sites

Individual Performers

Jim Dixon's List


Sheet Music
For sheet music that's in the public domain, there's

To humor Catspaw, I guess we'd better include his contribution:
Here you can

find The Grateful (and Ungrateful) Dead
[sigh....]

  • Personal Reference Tools - searchable

    dictionary, thesaurus, and Bartlett's; may be helpful for lyric writers

    • 30 Jul 01 - 02:01 AM (#517508)
    Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
    From: Marion

    Note: this is a list of Web sites of performers, primarily folk musicians. The major lyrics Web sites are listed in the Mudcat FAQ, and many other lyrics sources are listed on our Links page. Thanks to all the people who have contributed links to this list. If you'd like to add or correct something, please post a message below.
    -Joe Offer-

    Multi-Performer Sites

    Individual Performers

    Jim Dixon's List


    Sheet Music
    For sheet music that's in the public domain, there's

    To humor Catspaw, I guess we'd better include his contribution:
    Here you can find The Grateful (and Ungrateful) Dead
    [sigh....]

  • Personal Reference Tools - searchable dictionary, thesaurus, and Bartlett's; may be helpful for lyric writers

    • 30 Jul 01 - 02:24 AM (#517511)
    Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
    From: Marion

    Multi-Performer Sites

    Individual Performers

    30 Jul 01 - 02:44 AM (#517514)
    Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
    From: MudGuard

    John, as your postings is some kilometers above, I cite the relevant parts:

    I certainly wasn't intending to question the accuracy of your information.

    No offense taken. I just wanted to make sure that you know that my statement is not just a guess. By now I do know quite a lot about HTML (though certainly not all!), and before I make such statements, I always look into the standard to make sure I do not tell nonsense.

    I may be trying to read more into the Std than is there, but it appears that an HTML server (via a charset= statement in it's header file) is permitted define a "charset" that, once defined, allows you to just type any character on your keyboard - if it's in the character set, and of course if it's on your keyboard. A "proper" HTML file being sent to a receiving interpreter may define the charset it wants to use, which may or may not be implemented, depending on whether the receiving device has the files and fonts to implement it.

    There is no such thing as an HTML server - you probably mean a HTTP server (a server that delivers HTML files as well as images, text, css, class, ... via the HyperTextTransferProtocol; e.g. Apache, IIS). This http server does not look (with a few exceptions) at the contents of the file - someone (usually a browser) asks for a file, the HTTP server looks whether the file exists and if so, delivers it to the browser.

    Only when the file has arrived at the browsers such things as charset definitions are looked at. And - as you already noticed - if the recipient does not have the font containing the characters, these will not be shown correctly.

    For the exceptions from "HTTP server does not look at the files":

    Server Side Includes are usually done by the HTTP server itself. Same goes for PHP scripts where usually there is a module handling these included into the HTTP-Server. JSP-Files are given to a JSP-Engine (e.g. Tomcat, JServ, JRun). CGI-Scripts are given to the Script-Interpreter.

    There are some more but it would take a long time to list them all.

    HTH

    MudGuard

    05 Aug 01 - 04:19 AM (#521267)
    Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
    From: MudGuard

    That is because the current script evaluating your input removes linefeeds. The new version (currently in development) is said to keep all linefeeds.

    07 Sep 01 - 12:18 AM (#544155)
    Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
    From: catspaw49

    Here ya' go Genie....THese threads get purged sometimes so feel free to practice to your heart's content.

    Spaw

    12 Sep 01 - 07:53 PM (#548490)
    Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
    From: Noreen

    So it's Gmove into Dsteam lads and Cgive up the Gsea
    That's the only Amchoice left for Emshellbacks like me
    For the Amroyals and t'gallants are Emall burnt up with coal
    And Gwho's going to D7pay Paddy GDoyle?

    16 Sep 01 - 01:22 PM (#551648)
    Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
    From: Jim Dixon

    Forum Search at dharma Forum Search at loki Forum Search at Ragtime Forum Search at shorty Forum Search at www Forum Search at anywhere

    ---- google "Zalgo text generator" to make this kind of text:

    _____

    **S̑͊͏͏̣̯̩̱̟̗Ǩ̡̫͉̹̹̏̏̎ͩ̒͊̐I̴̢̯͋̈́ͮͮ̓P͓̱̻̤͓̾̔ͣ̋ͪ̾̾I͉̩͔̟̩̠̯͉̳̎̏͐̐̑̔̓͂́N̹̖̞̻̳̘̭͐͐͒́'̝̾͘ ̽ͣ̕҉̤̹ͅN̙̘ͬ̑ͦ̄̉'̴̩̩̫̩͓̘̰̫͛̋̾̿̂̿ͭ ̡͒ͨ̾̈́͗̉̓͡҉̗̹̝F̜̪̓ͩ̽̏̎̎̒̀͟L̴̛̖͕͇͛ͮ̍ͧ̑I͖̖̰͈ͩͦ̈̔͌̚͝P̮̫̞͎̮̫͇͈̍̅̉̓́P̢̧͍̦̰͍͖̻͒ͣ̓̉ͣI̵̴͇̭̝̩͈̟̗ͫ͑ͣ̆ͮ̍ͩṆ̷̨͎̩͉̱͚̾̊̾ͤ͡'̻̪͓̟̇̏̀ ͯ͋͏͕̝̤̫͜Ń̨̫͓̭͍̺̙̬̃͊͡'͚͚̰͈̱͔͖͐̏ͦ̎̓̇ͥ͜ ̻̭̖͕̬̤̣̬͆ͮͫ̔͒̅͌D̬̞ͭ̄̓̓͒ͅI̵͉̙̥͕̬̮̜̾ͨ̓ͯ̈ͬ͝Ṕ̪̮̉̄Pͣ̆͑͟͜҉̣̯̱̼̝̘I͉̼̰̮͇̟̅͑̔͂͛̾ͮ̆̍N̘͎̤̞̪̠͍ͮ͐̊͞͠'̡̹̠̙͉͚̻̟̊̌ͥͤ̎̅́͐ ̢̛̘̹̙̗͍̮̪̲͋ͮͨ̌̑̌͜N̶̩̝̈̋͝'̨̗̪̱̫͌̃̎ ̖͕͊ͬ͐͞S̜͙͚ͧ̂̑̄ͩ̈́͝ͅK̭̥̫̳̖͕͍̗ͧ͟͡İ̪̠̼̠͋̑͂̈́̔͆ͣ̾P̢̭̰͓̫̪̋̀ͤͨ̒̅ͥI̴̞͚͈̜̯̘̩̦̲̾͗N̻̭̣̟̺̦̣̒ͭ̅̈́͆̒͢͠͠'͎ͣ͡ͅ ̫͚̥ͥ̅ͦ̌͑̆ͤ͌̌Ń͎͑̉̾ͭ̉ͦ̐̕'̢̖̫̺̍̓̌̽ͧ̚ ̘̮̠̠̔̔ͥ̄̀̎͘͢F̸̱̲̝͈͖̃͊̚̚͘ͅL̶̞̜̻̫̯ͭ̅̂̊́͐͗͝I͇͙̱̖̫̦̳̻͗ͩ̎͒̈͗P̢̱͓̲̫͉̻̝̯̆ͪ̍̇͊́͜͠P̸̛̳ͬͭ́ͨͣ͒ͤͥIͧͪ͂҉͕̠͚̘͓̰̀ͅN̢͔͖͕̥̲̮̲̈́͐̈͘͞'̞̟̤͖͇͉ͩ ̢̮̣̰͎̦͉̠͊ͬ̓ͮ͟ͅN̴̩̰͕͕̠͓͐̽̈ͩ̉'̹͚̯͔͇̥͊̏̈́̏̀̇̉̀̕ ̴͉̳̝͈̙̰͂̈͂̂̉̚** ͈̱͚̣͉̻̥̺̠̈̂̏̈́̀̑ͤ͏̶̛͓͕̞̗͈̬̭̟ͧ̀͞Ḋ̡̺͚̼͎͖̌̔͘Į̛͈̤͍̀ͣͦͫ̇̽ͭ͆͂ͅP̢̗ͪ͑̽͊ͯ̋P̑̈͘͡ͅỊ̳̻̝̯̀̔ͦ͗̏̋ͥ́̚ͅṈ͈̰͈̮̪͗̍̈́̓̓̾̿̕'̼̜̜̫̹̝̝̫̔ ̖̘̰͉̭̰̼̙͓̆̽̓̍

    ̱̱̳͕̫̟ͧ̃̐ ̪̃͂̊̂͟ *̡̩͉̰̓ͣ̉̽ͫͬ***D̙̺̥͇͕̯̝̃ͮ͋͝Á̗͓̜̱̙̪̠̞̕͜ ̮̭̱̞͇͈̖̹̲͆̈́̏͗Ĭ̵̟̲͖̙͈̯̒͘L̢̰̥͕͛̎͋ͧ͢L̩͖̿̀I͓͖̿̈͐̐ͩ̍S̼̞͖̼̩̺̗̪̫͐̔̊̈̌̐̍ͮṮ̗̹͙̫̲͎͊͞ ̟͉͉̝͖̮̿̉ͬ̄̂́́ͥͅ2̟͉̪̳͖̗̼̠̏ͤ̓ͬ̚ ̵̵͕͔̘͖̼̻ͯ̋̾͛ͮ͋ͬ̀K̡̛̮͔͔̼͗ͣ̐̋̏̍͐͞Ī͉͎̩͙͚̦̻͇̋ͥ͆ͨ̊̏ͩ͟L͎̞̺̐̽ͫ̃̕L̸̗̩̟̳̜͗͌͑ͨ ̨̼̰͚̮̽ͬ̓̌͂͐̚͟D͖͂ͯ̿̑ͣ̕A͛ͫͥ̓͏̗̩͠ ̥̀̀͞S̔̔͒̿̈҉̥̺͙̮͖Ķ̗͍̘̲̬̺̤͗͝I̡͍͉̋̓͊ͧ͂ͪ̈ͥ́͟L̶̯̼͔̣̲̜͈͑̇ͦ̀͜͝L̖̳͖̳̮͉̱̱ͦ̐ͩ̇̾͝ ̶͙̪̰̲̣̋̐ͦ̚͡ͅD̴̠̬̯̃̌̈́A̴̼̙̠̼̳͓͒̏͆́͒ͦ ̫̱̹̜̖̖̭̮͆̉̊̐́̉̕ͅI̢͇͒̃̋̽̊̋̋ͤ͊͢Ḷ̴̩̼̞͚̫͙͕̃̑ͫ̍ͪ̽ͯ̐L̶̙̍͐̌͋̇͋̀ͩ͗͢I͇̟̻̙͍̿̅̑̋Ś̳̠͔̗͍̹͛͆̓͂̃̽̈ͅŢ̟̗̖͎̩͔͙̩̗̐̅̀̌͊͒͒͡ ̽ͥ͏҉̯̰2̛͖̝ͤ̎ ̡̜̩͇͖̊̒̍̈̆͂K̘̝̝̠̞͔͈̤ͤ̑̔̽̆̀͛ͣ̍̀͘͝I̙̹̻̩͗ͯ͟L̉ͫ̈҉̠̟̫̯̺̯̱Ļ̺̃͊̏͋̓̀͆̔́ ̢͉ͤͭ͒ͦ͋ͬ͛͡Dͪ͛̐͗͑͆҉̸̞͞A̷̠̣͈̪̩͈̞̙͇̋͛ͨ͒̎͆̇̆͟ ̏́͜҉̥̜S̛̪͔̲͖͍ͭ͒͒ͅK͎͕͈̮̓̑͑̇͋͐̏̊͢Í̛̟͖̠͓̙̩̰̆̔ͮ̍̈́ͅL̪̙̰̗͊̇̒̈͑͗͗̕L̗̩͕̝̪̲͐̽̿̅͗̅̉**

    28 Sep 01 - 07:11 PM (#561059)
    Subject: RE: HTML Practice Thread
    From: Noreen

    Sunday 30 September

    16.00 Impromptu performance in The Green Brick pub in Hull, by the waterfront.