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30 Jul 01 - 08:25 AM (#517592) Subject: Nine Times a Night From: pavane There's a nice twist at the end of this one!
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30 Jul 01 - 08:38 AM (#517602) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: IanC I have a very indistinct version of this by Shirley Collins on an old "Folkweave" tape from about 1976-7. Does anyone know if the words are substantially similar to this version? If I could find the tape, I might be able to let you know what the tune was.
Cheers! |
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30 Jul 01 - 08:47 AM (#517607) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: pavane That would be good - no tune was specified in the image I used. |
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30 Jul 01 - 09:44 AM (#517630) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Malcolm Douglas See also, in the DT, NINE TIMES A NIGHT Set from A.L. Lloyd, as recorded by Frankie Armstrong, with tune.
There is also a midi at The Mudcat Midi Pages, made by John in Brisbane from a recording by Harry Boardman: Nine Times a Night
The two tunes are the same, allowing for the usual slight variations; I can't place it just now, but have certainly heard it attached to other songs. Whether or not Lloyd attached it to this one I don't know, though that would not have been unprecedented. |
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30 Jul 01 - 09:56 AM (#517636) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Jeri Neither one of those tunes are the ones I know for the song. If Bat Goddess reads this, where did you get your version? (I'm sure I have a recording of it by someone, but who?) |
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30 Jul 01 - 10:05 AM (#517644) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: IanC Malcolm Maybe my memory's getting a little bad, but I don't think that tune (both are essentially the same) is the one Shirley Collins was singing it to, either.
Cheers! |
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30 Jul 01 - 11:07 AM (#517676) Subject: Tune: Nine Times a Night From: Jeri Here's a midi of the tune I'm used to hearing from various singers. |
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30 Jul 01 - 06:55 PM (#517957) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: ChanteyMatt Jeri, that's the one I know too. Most recently by a duo called "The Pilots of Tiger Bay" |
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30 Jul 01 - 08:43 PM (#518032) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Malcolm Douglas Ok, we've got two tunes now. Does anybody know where either of them came from? |
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30 Jul 01 - 08:56 PM (#518039) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Snuffy In Folk Songs and Ballads of Lancashire (Oak, 1973)the attribution is Words:Traditional Tune:Harry Boardman Wassail! V |
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31 Jul 01 - 12:24 AM (#518161) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: GUEST,pelrad Roberts and Barrand use a very slightly different tune, with the same wording found in the database version, on their album "Present From the Gentlemen." Ooh, doesn't that go well with the song title? I don't have the liner notes in front of me to see whence their version came. |
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31 Jul 01 - 09:31 AM (#518320) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Malcolm Douglas Like Frankie Armstrong, they learned the song from A.L. Lloyd; there would likely be some small differences between the three interpretations of the tune. I'm not entirely comfortable with Deepest Lancashire's attribution of that melody to Harry Boardman, but perhaps my feeling that I've come across it in earlier collection(s) is just a tribute to Boardman's command of the idiom. |
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31 Jul 01 - 05:23 PM (#518622) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Daystar Long time age I heared it on an LP Kate of Coalbrookdale |
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31 Jul 01 - 05:29 PM (#518623) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Bat Goddess Jeri, I learned it around 1981 from the Frankie Armstrong recording. (Sorry, I've been cutting down trees instead of paying attention to Mudcat.) Bat Goddess |
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31 Jul 01 - 06:39 PM (#518670) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Jeri Did Frankie Armstrong record two different versions then, or is the tune in the DT wrong? Is it possible someone knew the Boardman tune and sent it in thinking Frankie Armstrong did it the same way? Bat Goddess learned it from a Frankie Armstrong recording and sings the tune I posted. I "improved" the MIDI - fixed a boo-boo and sped the tune up a bit. Same link. |
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31 Jul 01 - 08:35 PM (#518741) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Malcolm Douglas I haven't heard Frankie Armstrong's recording so far as I can remember, so this is getting a bit confusing. On the other hand, a lot of the tunes given with DT files are unattributed, and some definitely do not belong with the texts given; it seems to have been considered that any tune was better than none. I am on record as believing that it's better to have no tune than that the wrong one should be presented as if it were authentic; I do seem to be in a minority, though. I do rather suspect that the recent drive for "missing tunes" is going to result in a lot of song texts having tunes wished upon them to which they have never been sung. I wonder who will sort all that out in a few years' time... |
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31 Jul 01 - 09:20 PM (#518750) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Jeri Yep, Malcolm. I also wonder how many mistakes there are in the music. There doesn't seem to be any review at all. The tunes get posted and immediatly sent off with no check for quality. I put the ones I do on the website for review and comments because I'm very aware I can make mistakes. I've received almost no formal education in music, and "self taught" means there are huge gaps in my knowledge. I can also mishear something that another person would pick up. |
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01 Aug 01 - 01:27 AM (#518831) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Anglo Well, Jon Raven sings it on "Ballad of the Black Country" and uses a variant of "The Outlandish Knight" for a tune. It's similar to the Fred Jordan version, with the shorter 2nd and 4th lines of that tune made up to fit the words. Jeri's tune above is the one Lloyd used (and presumably made up. or adapted), more or less. Though a bit oral-traditioned :-) I don't think I've heard Shirley Collins sing it (can any of the posters give a reference?); I can hear Frankie Armstrong in my head (again I can't come up with the recorded source), but I hear the Lloyd tune not the Boardman. I wonder if whoever posted it to the DT just added that tune because it was there without checking to see whether it was the same one. The Boardman tune, though certainly in the idiom, I would categorize as unremarkable. It seems to be made up of bits of other tunes like Villikins, The Half Hitch & Swaggering Boney, though it stands on its own I suppose. But I can't see Frankie preferring it to Lloyd's tune which to me at least has much more character. [We're in critical mode today having just been reading the review of Frank Harte's Bonaparte on the Musical Traditions webpage :-)].
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01 Aug 01 - 04:09 AM (#518868) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Stewie The tune that Jon Raven fitted to it on 'Kate of Coalbrookdale is quite rollicking and described in his note as 'music-hallese' as he believed it 'to be a true son of the late Industrial Revolution'. The tune he used several years later on the 'Ballad of the Black Country' is much more deliberate and traditional-sounding and, as Anglo mentioned, noted as adapted from one of the 'Outlandish Knight' melodies. --Stewie. |
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01 Aug 01 - 04:31 AM (#518876) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: pavane Question - is Male ability declining? Here we have 6 times a night, in Cluster of Nuts, we have 12 times a night, and in the even older Comical Wager, c1680 or before, it is the same basic wager, but 7 times in an HOUR. (I still believe 'Once a King, always a King, but once a Knight is enough') |
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01 Aug 01 - 04:32 AM (#518877) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: IanC Anglo re: Shirley Collins singing it. I did give a reference and I do have a copy of the tape. Only thing is I've got hundreds of old tapes, badly catalogued, and I can't find it at present. When I do, I'll post details. All I know at present is that it will be from UK Radio 2's "Folkweave" sometime in 1976 or 1977 and probably live at a folk club or a festival. Shirley Collins is not terribly well represented on the web, and I can't find anything in any of her discographies. Surely, though a clear reference to something taped by someone who owns it is a reasonable reference. Probably far better than much of the inaccurate rubbish you get on most web sites, anyhow.
Cheers! |
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01 Aug 01 - 10:08 AM (#519032) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Anglo Sorry Ian, I cartainly didn't mean to impugn your reference per se, and I agree with you that a radio broadcast is indeed a reasonable reference. However most of us in the US wouldn't get to hear a Radio 2 broadcast. I should probably have said "commercially available recording" in my post, and from your web searches it sounds like there probably isn't one. |
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01 Aug 01 - 10:35 AM (#519048) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Jeri Please see The BBC Radio Site, and click on a button at the top to listen live in RealAudio, or a link at the left to go to the channel's page. (Of course, that doesn't help with a show broadcast in 1976 or 7.) |
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01 Aug 01 - 01:52 PM (#519190) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Bat Goddess Okay, back with the info (playing telephone tag in between Mudcat sessions). The Frankie Armstrong LP I got the song from was "...out of love, hope, and suffering." It's the LP I also got Peggy Seeger's "Too Much of a Good Thing" from. Can't find a date on it, but the last copyright date of a song is 1974. Hope this helps. Bat Goddess |
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02 Aug 01 - 08:15 AM (#519589) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night From: Bat Goddess I just checked an older version of the DT that I had on the other computer, thinking, perhaps, that it did not have the MIDI in it and that this was a later addition. But it does and it is definitely NOT the tune Frankie Armstrong sings. I probably never checked it before because I learned the song from the recording long time before the DT's existance. (Yes, Virginia, there was a time before the Digital Tradition...) Bat Goddess |