30 Jul 01 - 10:12 AM (#517647) Subject: The Intelligence of Leaders From: Amos From a recent e-mail: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? That increasing awareness by the people has led to a The conclusions of the study, conducted by an independent 147 Franklin D. Roosevelt (D) The non-partisan researchers who evaluated the twelve |
30 Jul 01 - 10:20 AM (#517652) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: Fiolar Wal, hush my mouf. Seriously though it seems to be a brilliant piece of research and if true, makes one just a tiny bit concerned about the future of the planet. |
30 Jul 01 - 10:27 AM (#517660) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: MMario I think with this little piece the primary missing word is "perceived" - From what I understand - it is next to impossible to accurately determine IQ from speech patterns or many forms of writings. |
30 Jul 01 - 10:29 AM (#517661) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: LoopySanchez I was truly depressed about the choices in the last election. I hated to have to cast my vote for one of two candidates who would be stuck battling for the silver and bronze in any test of intelligence against you, me or any of the better half of Mudcatters. I think maybe I'll waste a vote on the Libertarians next time. Harry Browne vs. Ralph Nader would have made for a much more interesting and meaningful election last time. |
30 Jul 01 - 11:48 AM (#517695) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: GUEST,djh One Clinton practically matches the pooled IQ of 2 Bushs and we booted the only smart Republican out on his arse for being unscrupulous. What does that tell you? They should have thrown Dan Quayle into the study for laughs. |
30 Jul 01 - 12:02 PM (#517705) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: Rick Fielding I Think "Killer instinct Quotient" would be a better way to measure the success or failure of any leader. It's inconceivable to me that ANY ambitious creep willing to play by the rules while slashing their way up the "political success" ladder would understand anything but the intelligence of attaining power. I'd be more interested in how the various "advisors" were rated. Good thread idea Amos. Rick |
30 Jul 01 - 12:07 PM (#517711) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: kendall Presidents Grant and Harding (R, & R) have out forth as the two worst presidents in history. I wonder what their I.Q was... |
31 Jul 01 - 11:37 AM (#518393) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: Wolfgang Even if we assume that the measurement problem has been dealt with, IQ is one of the worst possible predictors for ability to lead. Close to completely useless. Wolfgang |
31 Jul 01 - 11:41 AM (#518398) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler I wonder....did they check who had actuallywritten the "writings"? Speechwriters and book ghost writers and editors might have a higher IQ than the pols who read them out or under whose name they are marketed!! RtS (or am I being cynical?) |
31 Jul 01 - 12:34 PM (#518424) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: Bill D hmmmm....I don't trust this kind of 'study' very much in general, but strangely, the scores are very close to what I'd have guessed..within 5-8 points. I agree that IQ is no absolute determiner of ability to lead, but it can be an indicator of a person's overall ability to comprehend complex perspectives and relationships.......and, an important point: language skills are crucial in certain situations, as much of our culture and it's nuances are embedded and reflected in language. Being able to coherently process and express trains of thought mean a great deal to a world leader who must represent his country at international conferences, etc. I know that many of our UK members are disillusioned with Tony Blair, but I have watched him speak in that televised 'debate' in Parliment, and he certainly holds his own, no matter what you think of his opinions! I shudder at the image of G.W. Bush taking on our Congress in such an exchange! |
31 Jul 01 - 02:00 PM (#518475) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: Ringer I think that anyone who lends the slightest credence to nonsense of this nature is terminally idiotic. |
31 Jul 01 - 06:05 PM (#518652) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: Bill D gee, whiz, Bald Eagle...if you have an opinion, don't be bashful...let it out!..*grin* |
31 Jul 01 - 06:23 PM (#518661) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: Peter T. Aristotle and Machiavelli would agree that IQ is not very important. What is important is political sense, which is something very different; and something even Aristotle and Machiavelli missed, which is the occasional need to stand on principle for larger historical reasons. Churchill had zero political sense, as far as I can tell, but he had a sense of larger historical forces, which was what mattered in the end. Franklin Roosevelt seems to have had both, but it took him awhile to get the knack of it. He had a brilliant wife too. I think the smartest politician of the 20th century, bar none, was Mahatma Gandhi. Most people think he is great for religious reasons, but in fact he was a consummate political artist. yours, Peter T. |
31 Jul 01 - 07:14 PM (#518697) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: GUEST,artbrooks@work I think its interesting, but probably not indicative of anything, that the Republican and Democrat with the highest IQs are also the ones that most people would say had the lowest moral quotient. |
31 Jul 01 - 07:27 PM (#518706) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: kendall We have all had a taste of Dubbyas language skills. |
31 Jul 01 - 09:35 PM (#518754) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: GUEST,Joe the Realist Well, there's really no need for a serious discussion of this "study." It is of course a classic internet hoax. This story was so fishy I could smell it before I booted my computer. There is no such thing as the Lovenstein Institute. The researchers mentioned are fictitious. The story started as an article in a satirical webzine, linkydinky.com. After printing the text of the "study," the article gave some biographical information on the supposed researchers: Cristina L. Borenstein and Lana Tamaar "served as receptionists for Gore for President, Inc." "They publish the Pennsylvania Court Observer, which has a circulation of 5." Dr Lovenstein "lives in a mobile home in Scranton PA with his longtime companion Patricia F. Dilliams. When they are not publishing reports for the Institute, they run an internet business www.collegedegreesforsale.com." You get the idea. Geez, doesn't Bush have enough deficiencies without people having to invent more for him? JtR |
01 Aug 01 - 05:49 PM (#519357) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: Richard Bridge OK, you guys over there have Freedom of information or something. So what is Wubwya's IQ? I'm sure I've seen the IQ's of Tony Blair and William Hague printed as if they were fact, and it is well known that Hague scared the pants of Blair at PM's question time. |
02 Aug 01 - 12:40 AM (#519486) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: Bert Didn't need a study we all KNOW he's a Bozo. What IS needed is a study of the IQ's of the effing idiots who voted for him. Of course that is supposing that ANYONE really DID. If you can fiddle one state, you can fiddle one vote, and if you can fiddle one vote you can fiddle 'em all. |
02 Aug 01 - 08:21 AM (#519594) Subject: RE: BS: The Intelligence of Leaders From: Amos Gee, Bert, that's a great hypothesis -- since we don't know HOW many votes he screwed with, it is perfectly possible he screwed with ALL of them? I think the probabilities get out of reach on the curve, though. My apologies to all for forwarding a hoax. At least it wasn't a chain letter soliciting funds for a gender reversal operation desperately needed by a seven year old Wiemeraner!! A |