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Tune Req: Meeting of the Waters

06 Aug 01 - 10:22 AM (#521820)
Subject: Meeting Of The Waters
From: Dulci46

I have been searching for several days for information on this song,with no results. Can't even find it listed anywhere. It is a Traditional Scots ceremonial pipe tune. I have been searching for information on it, as to who and when it was wrote, and if it is PD. I have a copy and play it but need more information on it.

Thanks,

Judy

06 Aug 01 - 11:08 AM (#521857)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca

Will check with a couple of pipers I know. LEt you know in a few days.

06 Aug 01 - 11:08 AM (#521858)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: Sorcha

Check here, at Contemplator, and see if it is the same song/tune. If so, I would say it's PD.

06 Aug 01 - 11:10 AM (#521859)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: Jimmy C

Dulci46,

Are you talking about "The Meeting of the Waters" that begins with
There is not in this wide world a valley so sweet
As that vale in who's bosum the the bright waters meet
Oh the last rays of feeling and life must depart
Ere the bloom of that valley shall fade from my heart
Ere the bloom of that valley shall fade from my heart
?

If so, this is an Irish song about the Vale of Avoca in Co. Wicklow. written I believe by Thomas Moore. It is one of the most peaceful places in Ireland. The village of Avoca is the setting for the TV series " Ballykissangel". The river Avoca meets another stream (I forget the name), the writer of the song was quite taken by the place that he wrote the words to a really beautiful piece. Of course you may be asking about another song altogether ?. I am sure someone will know the name of the second river and the author's name as well.
Calling all Wicklow caters.

Jimmy

06 Aug 01 - 11:51 AM (#521890)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: Dulci46

I think this might be it. The copy I have says Scots ceremonial tune, but when I play it the words of the Thomas Moore song fit. Could be a mistake on my copy. I am going to look further to be absolutely sure since I want to use it. It is a really beautiful song, long but beautiful.

Judy

06 Aug 01 - 11:52 AM (#521891)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: Dulci46

Can't get the midi file to work, but thanks

Judy

06 Aug 01 - 01:31 PM (#521944)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: Sorcha

Judy, did you try the Contemplator site? Lesly's midi files play automatically when the page is opened, and they nearly always work.

06 Aug 01 - 02:38 PM (#521984)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: Dulci46

I have tried several times to get it to work but can't hear a thing. I did go to CDNow and typed in the title and listened to samples. There are two Scottish versions, and they are exactly what I play, also lots of Irish versions. But the Irish versions are really slow, and I can't decide if it is the same song. I am developing a love for Irish and Scottish music though.

Judy

06 Aug 01 - 09:32 PM (#522303)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: Malcolm Douglas

For additional information (not always entirely accurate, at any rate when his sources start to quote folklore as fact; but invariably helpful and interesting) see Andrew Kuntz's  The Fiddler's Companion:

Meeting of the Waters.

06 Aug 01 - 10:26 PM (#522320)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: GUEST,John in Brisbane

I posted the tune here a few years back having got the tune from an Irish book. Bruce O corrected my fairly ordinary version to a much better tune.

Regards, John

06 Aug 01 - 11:00 PM (#522331)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: GUEST,Denise:^)

"The Meeting of the Waters" is included in "The Ruffwater Fakebook," by Judi Morningstar.

http://hometown.aol.com/gmorning/myhomepage/profile.html

I don't know if it's to be found on the web, but if you need it badly enough, there it is!

Denise:^)

06 Aug 01 - 11:30 PM (#522346)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca

This is what I got back from Barry Shears, a piper friend of mine:
The Meeting of the Waters was popular pipe tune in alot of bands about 20 years ago. It is published in a two part setting in a few pipe music collections and as a 4 parted setting, arranged by Donald Macleod of Scotland . I think the melody is traditional. Hope this helps
Barry

06 Aug 01 - 11:33 PM (#522348)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: Dulci46

Want to thank everyone for the information. I have found it to be played two ways, if it is the same song. The Irish version which is an air, and the Scottish version which is more like a march. I play the Socts version. I have found Ireland's World Champion Pipe Tunes CD, and have ordered it. I am hoping it is played as a march on this CD as I think it is the same song, but it sounds so different played as an air. Beautiful song either way. And I sure have developed a love for a new type of music today. Thanks

Judy

06 Aug 01 - 11:38 PM (#522353)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: GUEST,Denise:^)

Just listened to the midi at 'Contemplator,' and it sounds similar to the way we play it. However, we play it a bit faster, with a march-y feel.

It's also on a CD by Bill Spence ('Hammered Dulcimer Strikes Again,' maybe? I'm not home to check), in a medley with "March of St. Timothy," composed by the afore mentioned Judi Morningstar.

Denise:^)

07 Aug 01 - 01:25 AM (#522394)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: Barry T

Thread contributors have correctly identified that the Irish and Scottish tunes by the same title are entirely different tunes.

Here is the Irish song and here is the Scottish tune, the one George was referring to above. This is the four part version. Because of sound card limitations, the instrument voicing will not sound like the great highland bagpipe.

I believe that Andy Stewart has written lyrics to the pipe tune, as he has done for so many others.

BTW George... Barry Shears has made a wonderful contribution to the piping community by publishing East Coast Canadian tunes adapted for the Great Highland Bagpipe! Great work! (But you probably already knew that!) ;-)

07 Aug 01 - 08:34 AM (#522484)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: smallpiper

I don't know about them being that different - not the one's that I play anyway (mmm could that be just me)!

But there is so much crossover between the Irish and Scottish tradition that you will often find the same tune under several different names with some minor alterations inorder to fit the fingering and range of the pipes. So do chunes gown and develop - who said traditional music never changes?

07 Aug 01 - 09:06 AM (#522502)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: GUEST,Denise:^)

Barry wrote: "...and here is the Scottish tune, the one George was referring to above..."

Yes; that's it!

Only, I play it on the great Michigan hammered dulcimer...

Denise;^)

07 Aug 01 - 09:18 AM (#522507)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: Dulci46

Thanks for the information. Barry T I couldn't get the Scottish version to play but that is ok as that is the version I play. My husband kept telling me they were the same, but I was not hearing that.

Now would anyone know when the Scottish version was written?

Guess I am going to have to find the Irish version also as I have fallen in love with it to.

Thanks Judy

07 Aug 01 - 09:31 AM (#522516)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: Matthew Edwards

Thomas Moore's Irish Melodies 1808-34 contained over 100 songs with piano accompaniments. For his tunes he drew extensively on Bunting's collections of Harp tunes arranged for piano; The Ancient Music of Ireland. Bunting's original MSS have recently been edited by Collette Moloney, and published by the Irish Traditional Music Archive (v. expensive!) itma. So we may be able to find the original harp tune to this one day soon.
BTW The two rivers Avonbeg and Avonmore meet at Avoca to form the Avoca River.

07 Aug 01 - 10:32 AM (#522550)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: Dulci46

Now that I am sure that there are two different versions of this song, can anyone tell me more about the Scottish version?

This is really interesting, I have picked several other songs to research now. Makes the song have a whole new meaning to you when you know about it.

Judy

07 Aug 01 - 10:46 AM (#522563)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: Jimmy C

Parts of the scottish tune is quite similar " Take me back", a popular scotttish song or is it my imagination ?

07 Aug 01 - 11:34 AM (#522590)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: GUEST,PeteBoom at work

Jimmy C - most folks I know sing "take me back" - the one that ends "Scotland I'll be coming home to you" - to the march The Meeting of the Waters... As opposed to the poem by Moore, set to an old Irish air...

07 Aug 01 - 12:02 PM (#522613)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting Of The Waters
From: Dulci46

Ok, I have been looking for "Take Me Back", who's it by? Which is being referred to here. I have found different versions of that by Bryan Adams, Reba McIntyre, and others. HELP! So many songs so little time!.

Judy

09 Oct 10 - 10:31 PM (#3003560)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting of the Waters
From: Jim Dixon

Thomas Moore wrote the words to MEETING OF THE WATERS. In several editions of Moore's works, it specifies "AIR—The Old Head of Denis." See, for example, Melodies by Thomas Moore, Esq. (Philadelphia: T. Jekyll, 1821), page 22.

I believe that tune is given in O'Neill's Music of Ireland.

20 Apr 11 - 12:01 PM (#3139052)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting of the Waters
From: GUEST,Graham Bradshaw

Also features on the PEEPING TOM CD - The eyes have it (FSCD26)

20 Apr 11 - 12:07 PM (#3139055)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting of the Waters
From: Jack Campin

A story I heard about the Scottish tune "Meeting of the Waters" is that the title commemorates a flood when two rivers in north-east Scotland (one of them was the Findhorn, I forget the other) merged into one at a point where they had always been separate.

There's no relationship I know of between the Irish and Scottish tunes.

20 Apr 11 - 02:13 PM (#3139117)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting of the Waters
From: BobKnight

The late Andy Stewart sang Take Me Back.

29 Mar 21 - 03:58 PM (#4099840)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting of the Waters
From: Joe Offer

lyrics? Sung by John McGee at the Singaround

29 Mar 21 - 04:10 PM (#4099844)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting of the Waters
From: GUEST,#

https://www.bellsirishlyrics.com/meeting-of-the-waters.html

Re. 'Meeting of the Waters'

31 Mar 21 - 10:20 AM (#4100100)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting of the Waters
From: leeneia

This thread started as a tune request in 2001. We have established that there are two tunes of the name, one Scottish and one Irish.

If you visit good old abcnotation.com, you will find about 35 tunes for "Meeting of the Waters." Some are high, some are low. Some have more dots than others, but if you can read music just a little bit, you can tell which is which.

Near the end is "The Old Head of Denis." That'll tell you which one is the Thomas Moore tune.

31 Mar 21 - 10:59 AM (#4100109)
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Meeting of the Waters
From: leeneia

Wait a minute. There's a third tune, numbers 21 and 22. Sounds like a pipe tune.