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17 Aug 01 - 11:32 PM (#530609) Subject: Epilog to 'Dog and Gun' From: Mark Cohen I once heard a recorded version of "Dog and Gun" (it's on the DT database) with a different tune and modified words. I've forgotten all the words but the first verse went: "A wealthy young squire in Downforth (?) did dwell He courted a lady and he loved her right well The day was appointed for their wedding day And a farmer was appointed to give the bride away." The story is the same. Anyway, I, being a nasty unscrupulous modifier, wrote an epilogue to tie up some loose ends. Here it is. But what of the squire, what's happened to him? He lost his true love, and things looked rather grim But things in stories work out as they seldom do in life For the farmer had a sister...who became the squire's wife Any other epilogues out there to famous or infamous songs? And does anyone know who did that other version of "Dog and Gun?" I heard it on the radio in the early 80's. (I posted this in February 1999 and got no response, so I'm dragging it up again. Here's the link to Dog and Gun in the DT. Aloha, Mark |
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18 Aug 01 - 06:21 AM (#530700) Subject: RE: Epilog to 'Dog and Gun' From: Hilary Hi Mark, The lyrics you referred to are practically identical to a song 'The Squire's Bride' recorded by Alan Burke on 'Tip Of The Tongue' on Gurug records. However it was released in 2000 so it wasn't the recording you remember. I would like to hear the other version, so if you ever find out... It's one of my favourite ever CDs, IMO well worth listening to, but I can't do MiDI things, sorry. On the subject of adding (happy) epilogues, this is one of a minority of folk songs that I know with a happy-ish endings. - but that's a different thread. |
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18 Aug 01 - 09:26 AM (#530730) Subject: RE: Epilog to 'Dog and Gun' From: Jeri Well, these shouldn't be considered serious attempts to re-write the ending of a song - more like a commentary. While I love the songs, I don't much care for romanticizing the "died for love" stuff in some of them. I also happen to like happy endings. (Or at least sarcastic comments about tragic endings.)
ANNACHIE GORDON |
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18 Aug 01 - 10:23 AM (#530747) Subject: RE: Epilog to 'Dog and Gun' From: Charley Noble I always liked the added verse to "Railroad Boy" and other songs of similar ilk: Around my grave please build a fence, To show the world I had no sense. |
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18 Aug 01 - 10:57 AM (#530767) Subject: RE: Epilog to 'Dog and Gun' From: Malcolm Douglas I love the parodies, Jeri. It's a different matter tacking on a seriously-intended new ending for a song that no traditional singer in some two hundred years saw any need to change; perhaps modern sensibilities are uncomfortable with what seems an unresolved sub-plot, but people never used to let that sort of thing bother them. The squire is, if you like, merely a plot-device; when he has fulfilled his function, he is of no further concern. It's kind to feel sorry for him and to wish him a happy ending of his own, but for myself I tend to feel that deliberate modification of this sort usually weakens a song. The Golden Glove was very popular in 19th century England, and occasionally turned up in Scotland and Ireland, too. The location is almost always Tamworth (Staffordshire), though migrant versions are often localised. The tunes found in tradition vary more than does the text, which was probably reinforced by the wide circulation of broadside copies. The set in the DT is an American version. An early text (from a broadside) was published in J.H. Dixon's Ancient Poems, Ballads and Songs of the Peasantry of England (Percy Society, 1846; the link is to Robert Bell's revised and expanded edition of 1856). Dixon commented: "This is a very popular ballad, and sung in every part of England. It is traditionally reported to be founded on an incident which occurred in the reign of Elizabeth. It has been published in the broadside form from the commencement of the eighteenth century". There are some 29 broadside copies at Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads, in only four of which (J. Scott of Pittenweem, two unknown printers, and Brereton of Dublin) is the action moved from Tamworth; in the first case to Tynemouth, in the second to "the north country", in the third and forth to Thomastown. The story is the same in all, with the usual relatively minor textual variations. Occasionally the final verse is omitted. There is an entry at The Traditional Ballad Index: Golden Glove, The (Dog and Gun) [Laws N20] There are two Ozark versions at The Max Hunter Folk Song Collection; at present only one is available online: With Her Dogs And Guns As sung by Mrs. George Ripley in Milford, Missouri on December 14, 1959. The song has not often been discussed here: Dog & Gun A discussion of recordings by revival performers. |
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18 Aug 01 - 03:12 PM (#530846) Subject: RE: Epilog to 'Dog and Gun' From: GUEST,Hilary Thank you, Malcolm, AT LAST, a song set in Staffordshire, my county of birth. I haven't come across very many others - & this is one I like, not least because it's the woman sorts everthing out :-) . |
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18 Aug 01 - 04:17 PM (#530868) Subject: RE: Epilog to 'Dog and Gun' From: Malcolm Douglas For a few more, see: Lumpy Tums At Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads, you'll find the 18th century Staffordshire Maid, another resourceful woman. By the 19th century, though, she had relocated to London as The Undaunted Female (also found in tradition as Box on Her Head). There's also the rather nasty Staffordshire Tragedy ("In Burton [on one sheet, Buxton] Town in Staffordshire..."). |
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18 Aug 01 - 04:41 PM (#530872) Subject: RE: Epilog to 'Dog and Gun' From: Mark Cohen Thanks for all the excellent info, Malcolm. The text in the Dixon collection is very close to the one I remember, so I suspect that was close to the source for that version. From reading the old thread (thanks for finding it!), I wonder if I heard the Nic Jones version. I don't know Nic Jones, but I recall the singer was a man with a rather high, sweet voice. And I'd also suspect that the Alan Burke version mentioned by Hilary was taken from the one I heard. Sure wish I still had the tape. But, Malcolm..."seriously intended"? Moi? Thou hast wrongly taken my merry meaning, sir! (I guess the Noel Paul Stookey phrase "nasty unscrupulous modifier" wasn't clear enough!) I was hoping to find just the kind of "addenda" that Jeri and Charley came up with. Thanks! Aloha, Mark |
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18 Aug 01 - 05:24 PM (#530882) Subject: RE: Epilog to 'Dog and Gun' From: Malcolm Douglas Right you are, Mark! I'm so used to people doing things like that and really meaning it (and believing that they've actually "improved" a song in the process) that I rather missed the humour intended. Oh well. As to the identity of the recording you heard, Nic Jones and Chris Foster would both be good bets; if the accompaniment was solo guitar, perhaps Jones, if it was fiddle (played by Jones, as it happens) then Foster (who had the higher voice). Muckram Wakes recorded it in the middle '70s, too, but that was a duet accompanied by guitar and free-reed of some sort. |
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18 Aug 01 - 07:34 PM (#530903) Subject: RE: Epilog to 'Dog and Gun' From: Stewie There is a 1933 recording by Bradley Kincaid in the recent 2-CD Vol 4 of the Harry Smith Anthology [Revenant RVN 211]. --Stewie. |
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22 Mar 06 - 09:26 PM (#1700616) Subject: Lyr Add: THE DOG AND THE GUN From: GUEST,Michael Morris It appears simply as "New Song, No. 38" in Timothy Connor's song book, written while in prison during the American war For independence (George G. Carey, ed. A Sailor's Songbag: An American Rebel in an English Prison (Amherst: University of Massachussetts Press, 1976), p. 107-108. The date given for Connor's entry is September 4th, 1778. In his notes, Carey cites Bell's contention that "the song may have spun off an actual event that happened during the reign of Elizabeth," but he offers no other information on this point and wrote that Connor's song "was clearly taken down from a broadside slip." (P. 109) Here are a few North American variants, the first from Pennsylvania by way of Kansas . . . . THE DOG AND THE GUN The was a young squire from yarmouth was here He courted a noblemans daughter most dear And for to get marryed it was there intent All friends and relations they gave there consent The time being appointed all for the wedding day A young farmer was chosen there waiter to bee As soon as this lady the farmer she spied It inflamed her heart o my heart this lady cryed She turned away from him but nothing she said And instead of getting marryed she went to her bed The thoughts ove the farmer still run through her mind And away for to get him away she did find Coat vesket and small clothes this lady put on And a hunting she went with her dog and her gun Oftimes did she fire but nothing did she kill Till at length the jolly farmer came whistling in the field Ohe I thought you would have bin to wedding she cried To wait one the young squire and to bring him his bride Oh no replied the farmer the truth to you I will tell I wont give her away for I love her to well This lady being pleased for to see hime so bold She gave hime her glove it was all flowered with gold She told him she found it as she came along As she was a hunting with her dog and her gun This lady went home with her heart full of love And she gave out the speach that she had lost her glove And he who will find it and bring it to mee I will adoar him forever his bride I will bee As soon as this farmer the news he came to here Strait away unto this lady in haste did appear Saying here honered lady I have found your glove And will you be so kind as to grant me your love Tis already granted this lady replied I love the sweet breath of the farmer she cried I will be mistress of my dry apailing of my cow While my jolly brisk young farmer goes a whistling to his plow The day of the wedding she told of the fun How she hunted the farmer with her dog and gun But now I have got him so fast in my snare I will adore him forever I vow and declare Written William A. Larkins / May the 18th A.D. 1866 Source: Ruth Ann Musick, "The Old Album of William A. Larkin," The Journal of American Folklore, Vol. 60, No. 237, (July-Sep., 1947), p. 228-229. Notes: "When William A. Larkins started his 'book of all songs' in April, 1866, he may not have realized that he was making a valuable contribution to folklore. Like Chaucer's young squire, he was twenty years of age at the time, and did considerable singing 'when called upon by his friends.' Evidently he wrote these old album songs down to sing at such times." (p. 201) Musick notes that Larkin's family was originally English, settled in Pennsyvania and moved West, first to Ohio and then Illinois. It was in Pekin, Illinois "that he recorded his book of songs." Larkin often performed at Grange play parties, and "was well known and in great demand." Here's a fragment from Kentuckians who settled in Wisconsin . . . . THE LADY WENT HOME WITH HER HEART FULL OF LOVE The lady went home with her full of love And sent out the news that she had lost her glove Saying, 'Who will return my glove to me, I vow and I declare their bride I will be." Now they are married she tells of the fun How she hunted up her farmer with her dog and gun She picks up a her basket, goes milking of her cow While her brisk young farmer goes whistling at his plow. (with tune) Source: Asher Treat, "Kentucky Folksong in Northern Wisconsin," The Journal of American Folklore, Vol. 52, No. 203 (Jan.-March, 1939), p.36 Notes: "Sung by Pearl Jacobs Borusky, July 13, 1938. Cf. Sharp, The Golden Glove." The author goes into some depth regarding emigrant "Kentucks" who, along with Polish and Bohemian immigrants settled in northern Wisconsin and scratched out a living "Perhaps their tenacity to their southern way of living contributed to the cultural isolation of these people. They had known backwoods life before. They knew how to hunt, fish, cut timber, and scratch the cheap land enough to raise a little corn, a few hills of beans, and maybe some potatoes. But a certain uneasiness and distrust toward them was often manifested by their northern neighbors. Their names, their speech, their manners, their cookery- many things made them seem different from the others; and even now, when many are of the second or third generation of the Wisconsin born, some of those differences persist." (p. 2) Albert Tolman also printed a text in JAF, vol 29, no 112 (April-June, 1916). I'll track that one down tomorrow if I get the chance. Pauline Greenhill included it in a discussion of Newfoundland cross-dressing ballads ("'Neither a Man nor a Maid,": Sexualities and Gendered Meanings in Cross-Dressing Ballads," The Journal fo American Folklore, Vol. 108, No. 428 (Spring 1995), 156-177). Nothing I've seen indicates any magical subtext or origin earlier than the second half of the eighteenth century. |
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22 Mar 06 - 09:31 PM (#1700622) Subject: RE: Epilog to 'Dog and Gun' - Golden Glove From: GUEST,Michael Morris Sorry, the first line of the second text should have read "The lady went home with her heart full of love." |
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22 Mar 06 - 10:49 PM (#1700664) Subject: RE: Epilog to 'Dog and Gun' - Golden Glove From: Ferrara Dick Spottswood played an American version of "Dog & Gun" on Sunday, March 19. I don't have time this week to listen -- sigh --- but it's one of the four songs following Uncle Dave Macon's Cumberland Deer Chase in the 2nd hour of his show. Wish I knew which one, I loved it! Had never heard of the song until then, and was very pleased to see this thread. You can listen to Dick's March 19 show on this page until March 26. |
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23 Mar 06 - 05:04 AM (#1700757) Subject: RE: Epilog to 'Dog and Gun' - Golden Glove From: GUEST,Fred McCormick It was probably a version which Bradley Kincaid recorded in the 1930s,and which may be on one of Yazoo's reissues. I don't have the Kincaid recording unfortunately, but Mike Seeger recorded the same version on Rounder CD 0278. Mike Seeger Solo: Old Time Country Music. Cheers, Fred McCormick Dick Spottswood played an American version of "Dog & Gun" on Sunday, March 19. I don't have time this week to listen -- sigh --- but it's one of the four songs following Uncle Dave Macon's Cumberland Deer Chase in the 2nd hour of his show. Wish I knew which one, I loved it! Had never heard of the song until then, and was very pleased to see this thread. |
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25 Mar 06 - 12:21 AM (#1702343) Subject: RE: Epilog to 'Dog and Gun' - Golden Glove From: Goose Gander "A NEW SONG- NO 38" A Wealthy young squire of Fammoth we have He courted a nobleman's daughter so fair And for to marry her daughter it was his intent All friends and relations had given their consent The time was appointed for the wedding day A young Farmer was chosen the Father to be As soon as the Lady the farmer did spy It inflamed her heart O my heart she did cry She went from the Squire and nothing she said Instead of being married she went to her bed The thoughts of the farmer still in her mind And a way for to have him she soon did find Coat waistcoat and breeches she then did put on And a hunting she went with her dog and gun She hunted all around where the Farmer did dwell Because in her heart O she loved him full well She oftentimes fir'd but nothing she kill'd At length the young Farmer came into the field And for to discourse him it was her intent With her dog and her gun for to meet him she went I thought you had been at the wedding she cry'd To wait on the Squire and give him his bride O no says the Farmer if the truth I must tell I'll not give her away for I love her too well Suppose that the Lady should grant you her love Don't you think the young Squire your rival would prove O no says the Farmer I'll take the sword in hand By honor I'll gain her my life is at command The lady was pleased to hear him so bold She gave him a glove that was flowered with gold She told him she found it coming along As she was hunting with her dog and gun The Lady went home with her heart full of love She gave out a sign that she had lost a glove That man who had found it and brings it to me That man I will love and his bride I will be It pleased the farmer to hear of the news With a heart full of love to the lady he goes Dear honoured lady I have pick'd up your glove If you will be pleased to grant me your love It is already granted the Lady replies I love the sweet breath of a farmer she cries I'll be mistress of dairy a milking the cows Whilst Jolly Young Farmer goes wristleing the plow Now when she was married she told of the fun How she hunted the farmer with dog and gun And now I have got him so safe in a snare I'll enjoy him forever I vow and declare Forton Prison Sept. 4th Source: George G. Carey, ed., A Sailor's Songbag: An American Rebel in an English Prison, 1777-1779 (Amherst: University of Massachusetts Press, 1776), 107-108. And here is Dog, Gun, and Glove from the Max Hunter Folk Song Collection, sung by Raymond Sanders, Mountain View, Arkansas on May 12, 1970. |
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25 Mar 06 - 01:07 PM (#1702607) Subject: RE: Epilog to 'Dog and Gun' - Golden Glove From: Goose Gander Sorry, that citation should have read "Amherst: University of Massachusetts Press, 1976." Apologies for that and other typos and grammar on previous postings! |
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27 Mar 06 - 07:43 PM (#1704181) Subject: Lyr Add: DOG AND GUN From: Goose Gander DOG AND GUN The wealthy young squire of Yarmouth of late He courted a lady of very great estate And for to be married it was their intent Their friends and relations had gave their consent And for to be married it was their intent Their friends and relations had gave their consent The day was appointed the wedding to be They called a young farmer to give her away But instead of being married she took to her bed The thoughts of the farmer still run in her head The thoughts of the farmer run so in her mind And the way to get him she quickly did find Both waistcoat and breeches this lady put on And away she went a-hunting with her dog and gun She hunted all around where the farmer did dwell For 'twas all in her heart that she loved him so well She often did fire, but nothing could kill Till at length the young farmer came into the field 'Why ain't you at the wedding,' this lady she cried 'To wait on the squire and hand him his bride?' 'Well, now, says the farmer, 'if truth I must tell, I can't give her away, for I love her too well.' 'Supposing this lady would grant you her love, And supposing the squire your ruin would prove?' 'Well,' said the farmer, 'I'd take sword in hand, And by I honor I would gain her, my life at his command.' It pleased this lady to see him so bold She gave him a glove that was garnished with gold She said that she had found it as she came along As she was a-hunting with her dog and gun. This lady went home with her heart full of love And gave out a proclamation that she'd lost her glove 'And the man that will find it and bring it to me Oh, the man that will find it, his bride I will be.' It pleased this farmer to hear all the news Straightaway to this lady the farmer he goes Saying, 'Dear honored lady, I've picked up your glove And will you be pleased to grant me your love?' 'It's already granted,' this lady she cried 'I love the sweet breath of the farmer,' she replied 'I'll be the mistress of his dairy and milker of his cows While my jolly young farmer goes whistling to his plows.' Source: Albert Tolman, "Some Songs Traditional in the United States," Journal of American Folklore, Vol. 29, No. 112 (April-June, 1916), p. 171-172. Notes: "The present text was obtained for me from Mrs. Deborah Stone, Winfield, Kan., in 1897. It was learned by her in Pennsylvania in 1842 . . . . I have a New England copy (in MS.) the oral tradition of which reaches to a date before 1823" |
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06 Dec 10 - 04:02 PM (#3047669) Subject: Lyr Add: THE GOLDEN GLOVE From: Jim Dixon From The Vocal Library (London: Sir Richard Phillips, 1822), page 571: THE GOLDEN GLOVE A wealthy young squire, of Tamworth, we hear, He courted a nobleman's daughter so fair, And to marry her it was his intent, All friends and relations had given their consent. The time was appointed for the wedding day, A young farmer was appointed to give her away; As soon as the lady the farmer did spy, He inflamed her heart— O my heart! she did cry. She turn'd from the Squire, tho' nothing she said, Instead of being married she took to her bed, The thought of the farmer still run in her mind, A way for to have him she quickly did find. Coat, waistcoat, and breeches she then did put on, And hunting she went with her dog and her gun; She hunted all round where the farmer did dwell; Because in her heart she did love him full well. She oftentimes fired, but nothing she kill'd, At length the young farmer came into the field; And to discourse with him it was her intent, With her dog and her gun to meet him she went. I thought you had been at the wedding, she cry'd, To wait on the Squire and give him his bride; No, sir, said the farmer, If the truth I may tell, I'll not give her away, for I love her too well." Suppose the lady should grant you her love, You know that the Squire your rival will prove; Why, then, says the farmer, I'll take sword in hand, By honour I'll gain her whene'er she command. It pleased the lady to find him so bold, She gave him a glove that was flower'd with gold, And told him she found it when coming along, As she was a hunting with her dog and her gun. This lady went home, with a heart full of love, And gave out a notice that she'd lost a glove: And the man who had found it, and brought it to she, The man that did bring it her husband should be. The farmer was pleas'd when he heard the news, With heart full of joy to the lady he goes: Dear honoured lady, I've picked up your glove, And hope you'll be pleased to grant me your love. It's already granted, I will be your bride, I love the sweet breath of a farmer, she cry'd; I'll be mistress of my dairy, and milking my cows, While my jolly brisk farmer is whistling at plough. And when she was married she told of the fun, How she hunted the farmer with her dog and her gun. But now I've got him so fast in my snare, I'll enjoy him for ever, I vow and declare. |
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22 Sep 16 - 12:25 AM (#3810795) Subject: Lyr Add: DOG AND GUN (Bradley Kincaid) From: Jim Dixon DOG AND GUN As recorded by Bradley Kincaid, 1933. 1. There was a young squire who lived o'er the way. He courted a rich lady so fair and so gay. To marry this lady it was his intent. Their friends and relations all gave their consent. 2. The time was appointed the wedding to see. The squire chose a farmer his waiter to be. No sooner had the lady the waiter espied, He enflamed her true heart; "Oh, my true heart!" she cried. 3. Instead of getting married she went to her bed. The thought of the farmer still ran through her head. The thought of the farmer still ran though her mind, And how to gain him she was quickly to find. 4. A coat, vest and pants did the lady put on. Away she went hunting with dog and with gun. She hunted all around where the farmer did dwell, Because in her true heart she loved him so well. 5. Often she fired but nothing she killed. At length a young farmer came into the field. To talk with him there it became her intent. With her dog and her gun on to meet him she went. 6. "I thought you'd have been to the wedding," she cried, "To give to the squire his beautiful bride." "Oh, no," said the farmer. "The truth to you I'll tell: I couldn't give her to him 'cause I love her so well." 7. It pleased the young lady to see him so bold. She gave him her glove that was flowered with gold, Saying: "Take this; I found it as I did come along. I found it while hunting with dog and with gun." 8. The lady went home with a heart full of love, And gave out the news that she had lost her glove, "And the one that will find it and bring it to me, The one that will find it, his bride I will be." 9. It pleased the young farmer to hear of the news. Straightway with the glove to the lady he goes, Saying: "Here, honored lady, I've just found your glove. Will you be so kind as to grant me your love?" 10. "My love it is granted," the lady replied. "I love the sweet breath of the farmer," she cried. "I'll be mistress of dairy and milking of cow, While my jolly young farmer goes whistling to plow." 11. And when they were married she told of the fun, How she courted the farmer with dog and with gun. "And now that I have him so close in my snare, I'll love him forever and vow I don't care." |
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07 Nov 16 - 12:54 AM (#3818634) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Epilog to Dog and Gun / Golden Glove From: Jacob B Aaron Thompson was a fifer with the Third New Jersey Regiment during the Revolutionary War. He kept a journal in which he wrote down many tunes. A copy of the manuscript is currently in the possession of the the library at Yale University. My wife and I are currently in the process of transcribing Thompson's writings from the journal. Thompson wrote a version of Dog and Gun in his journal. Six stanzas appear there, while the rest of the ballad was apparently on a portion of a page which is missing from the journal. This is fascinating, since the earliest printed version of the ballad was apparently in the 1820s, and the ballad is often attributed to Timothy Connor, who supposedly wrote the song while in Forton Prison, an English prison which held prisoners-of-war. Connor was imprisoned there between 1777 and 1779. Connor was released in a prisoner exchange in May 1779. Thompson appears to have written down the version he knew no later than November 1779. Either Connor's song became popular in the American army very quickly, or Dog and Gun existed earlier than previously believed. |