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26 Aug 01 - 10:37 PM (#535853) Subject: Lumpy Tums? From: Naemanson At the song swap at the Portland Observatory tonight a woman sang a bit of a song she called Lumpy Tums. The chorus goes something like this:
***** ****** gives us our homebrewed ale Charley and Brian were there and may have a better memory about the words. She sang three verses and says there are more. Anyone got it? |
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26 Aug 01 - 10:40 PM (#535857) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Charley Noble Yah, I want to get the words of this one too. |
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27 Aug 01 - 08:42 AM (#536021) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Malcolm Douglas In the DT. LUMPY TUMS
No tune, though. Care to oblige? |
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27 Aug 01 - 08:47 AM (#536023) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: MMario that's right, it's still on the missing tune list. |
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27 Aug 01 - 08:50 AM (#536025) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Naemanson Charley, do you know who that woman is? The couple she was with seem to be locals. We need to track her down for the Mudcat. This is a job for Sam Cleff, music detective, the man with a nose for treble! |
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27 Aug 01 - 11:15 AM (#536075) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Charley Noble Who was that woman? Well, she was blond I'd say, in her mid thirties, a good voice, and was visiting some friends who lived in the neighboring town of Yarmouth whose names I didn't get. Maybe, if we're good they'll show up again. So it goes. Never occured to me to check the DT... |
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27 Aug 01 - 01:49 PM (#536157) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Brían I believe that Richard Fewtrell mentioned as supplying the words is the same man she mentioned as the one who taught her. I don't recall their names. I do hope they come back. Brían. |
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27 Aug 01 - 02:18 PM (#536184) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: MMario Brían - why did I have the impression you were in the UK? Looks like Maine is getting quite a contingent of catters! |
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27 Aug 01 - 02:24 PM (#536190) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Naemanson Yeah, MMario, we're up to our hips in 'catters! Not as good as the UK contingent yet but we are working on it. Maine state motto: Mudcatters come home! |
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27 Aug 01 - 04:10 PM (#536275) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Brían Probably because you find me in all the UK/Ireland threads. Brían. |
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27 Aug 01 - 04:55 PM (#536310) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: KathWestra David Jones was singing this around quite a lot about 15 years ago, and had some info. about its origins. I'll see if he remembers anything about it -- haven't heard him sing it in dogs' years. |
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27 Aug 01 - 07:43 PM (#536424) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Naemanson Thanks, Kath. Please note MMario's note above that this is one of the lost tunes. If you can find it on a tape or record and get it off to MMario that would be wonderful. |
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27 Aug 01 - 08:22 PM (#536448) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Joe_F I can complete the chorus, anyway: From barley we get homebrewed ale, From malt our whisky comes, But from the oats in Staffordshire Do come our lumpytums. I, too, would very much like to know the rest. |
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27 Aug 01 - 08:56 PM (#536463) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Charley Noble Joe, for the full lyrics try the "blue clicky" above which Malcolm so kindly pointed out to us. Of course that doesn't explain "lumpy Tums." |
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28 Aug 01 - 07:06 PM (#537067) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Joe_F Charley: Thanks for pointing that out. Lumpytums are oatmeal, I believe. The tune in solfa as I remember it is SdrdSdrmdr mflsfmr mfsfmrdrmdr Sdmfmrd (S is sol in the lower octave.) That's the chorus. The stanzas are a little different. |
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30 Aug 01 - 04:58 PM (#538409) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Brían Naem' or Charley, can you get the melody using this solfa thing? Brían. |
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30 Aug 01 - 05:04 PM (#538419) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Charley Noble It takes a braver man than I to try that, Brían. |
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30 Aug 01 - 06:22 PM (#538470) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Brían Ooooooo. I think I can do it. I'll print it and maybe have it ready for the next swap. Brían. |
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30 Aug 01 - 06:28 PM (#538474) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Joe_F I venture to suspect that, in the text given, "breadknock" should be "dreadnought", and "his fateful one" should be "his fateful [or maybe faithful] gun". |
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31 Aug 01 - 08:21 AM (#538841) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: MMario Joe - can you give me an idea of the time values? |
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31 Aug 01 - 09:22 AM (#538871) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Charley Noble Joe, "breadknock" should be "dreadnought", and "his fateful one" should be "his fateful [or maybe faithful] gun" does make more sense. Thanks! |
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31 Aug 01 - 11:41 AM (#538978) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: John J What a surpise! I though I was the only person in the world who remembered this song which I last heard about 25 years ago. It was sung by a trio from Staffordshire called Muggins Fancy, who sang in harmony...and bloody good they were too! I was under the impression that they actually wrote it, but I could well be wrong. I can just about remember the tune, and now that I've got the words (I didn't think to check the DT) I'll learn to sing it and perhaps ask that nice Noreen if she write some dots down for you. Coincidently, I was at our local folk club a few months back (The Railway, Heatley, near Lymm, Cheshire....Thursday nights, good beer, good club etc) when a bunch of lads were performing. I recognised one of the as a former Muggins Fancy member and asked if he could remember the words. Unfortunately he couldn't. John |
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31 Aug 01 - 05:24 PM (#539246) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Joe_F O.K., here's the tune with dots for continuation of a note: Stanza: d..rd.S.drmdr... f.l.s.m.mrd.r..m f..ls.m.mrd.r..S d..rd.S.drmdr... Chorus: S. d..rd.S.drmdr.m. f.l.sfm.r.....mf s..fm.r.drmdr.S. d.m.fmr.d..... |
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31 Aug 01 - 09:10 PM (#539391) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: MMario Great! I'll work this up and post it tuesday - assuming all h*ll doesn't break loose at work - |
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02 Sep 01 - 04:42 PM (#540386) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Brían Thanks, Joe. those letters and dots really work. I could kick myself for not having my tape recorder with me that night... Brían |
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04 Sep 01 - 01:33 PM (#541661) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: MMario NWC files sent to Joe Offer. Thanks all! |
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04 Sep 01 - 06:19 PM (#541923) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Brían Hoo-ray!!!!!!!! Great work everyone. Brían |
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04 Sep 01 - 09:20 PM (#542046) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: GUEST,Sara Hi all, This is the "mystery woman" from the Portland Observatory song swap. I just got home from sea and was amused to see the references to me in this thread! I just dug out the words as written in an Elissa volunteer songbook and noticed that they are ever so slightly different than the ones in the database. Concerning the question of Breadknock, in the version I have the third verse goes: That Bradnock man, Jim Shaw who slew Ten valient French at Waterloo His nervous arm dealt them their dooms 'Cause he was reared on Lumpy Tums After consultation with my "Big Road Atlas of Britain" I don't see any place called Bradnock, but there is a town called Bradnop and its even in Staffordshire. Maybe that is what it is supposed to be. I haven't tried the solfa thing, but if there is still any confusion about the tune, I would be happy to help out.
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13 Sep 01 - 02:00 PM (#549003) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Brían Well, be there at the next Observatory and let's hear the whole song then! Brían |
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04 Jul 09 - 10:39 PM (#2671781) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Joe_F Time passes, and the Web now supplies the following recipe for lumpytums: << Strew oatmeal into boiling milk so that it forms into small lumps. These may be eaten with treacle and butter. Joyce Douglas describes these as "like tiny, irregular snowballs...releasing a puther of dry oatmeal when chewed." >> I tried it, but the oatmeal did not form lumps. The result was merely an unusually rich bowl of oatmeal (I ordinarily use water with just a little milk). As a American, I used maple syrup in lieu of treacle. Perhaps *rolled* oats do not do the job? Note, by the way, that "nervous" is not a mistake. According to the OED, it can mean (indeed, originally meant) "sinewy, muscular; vigorous, strong". |
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09 Aug 09 - 09:05 PM (#2696650) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Joe_F Following up my previous query, I bought, at the Harvest Coop in Central Sq., Cambridge (MA), some coarse oatmeal and some whole oats. Neither produced snowballs. Perhaps I did not strew them properly. Or perhaps only Staffordshire oats will do. It seems remarkably difficult to obtain dishes recommended in songs. A Web search some time ago failed to bring up a restaurant that served groundhog, and I would have to go to Mississippi to order possum & sweet potatoes. |
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10 Aug 09 - 06:46 PM (#2697301) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Peace Groundhog/Woodchuck = Same thing. PATTIES: Remove meat from bones and grind. Add bread crumbs, onion, salt, pepper, egg, and fat; mix thoroughly. Form into patties; dip into egg; then dip in bread crumbs. Fry in hot fat until brown. Cover with currant jelly sauce and place in slow oven for 1 hour. WOODCHUK PIE 1 woodchuck, skinned and cleaned 1/4 cup onion 1/4 cup green pepper 1/2 tbsp minced parsley 1 tbsp. salt 1/8 tsp. pepper 4 1/2 tbsp. flour 3 cups broth Biscuits: 1 cup flour 2 tbsp. baking powder 1/4 tsp. salt 2 tbsp. fat 1/4 cup milk Cut woodchuck into 2 or 3 pieces. Parboil for 1 hour. Remove meat from bones in large pieces. Add onion, green pepper, parsley, salt, pepper, and flour to the broth and srit until it thickens. If the broth does not measure 3 cups, add water. Add the meat to the broth mixture and stir thoroughly. Pour into baking dish. For biscuits: sift flour, baking powder, and salt together. Cut in the fat and add the liquid. Stir until the dry ingredients are moist. Roll only enough to make it fit the dish. Place dough on top of meat, put in a hot oven (400 degrees F.) and bake 30 to 40 minutes or until dough is browned. Serves 6-8. |
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10 Aug 09 - 08:17 PM (#2697357) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Joe_F Peace: Yes, I know, now that I am (back) in New England, it's a woodchuck. However, the classic groundhog song is southern. While I lived in Virginia, I just missed a chance to eat some of one. A guy in the commune I belonged to shot one that was robbing our garden & served it out; but I was away on a job. There is no obvious way to get hold of one in Massachusetts. In the west, they are commonly called by their scientific name: marmot. My impression is that they are thought of as cute & are not eaten. My first guess at "srit" was wrong. %^) |
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11 Aug 09 - 03:51 PM (#2697880) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums? From: Compton Hey up. duck!! Being a Staffordshire lad with a song in my heart...Lumpy Tums ghas passed merrily into the "Folk Tradition"...but I, like John J have this feeling that its a written song....try talking to His Worship and the Pig...Jeff Parton should know if anyone does! |
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12 Aug 09 - 05:54 PM (#2698913) Subject: Lyr Add: LUMPY TUMS From: Jim Dixon From "Folklore and Songs of the Black Country" by Jon Raven (Wolverhampton: Wolverhampton Folk Song Club, 1965), page 45: LUMPY TUMS (Notes & Queries Vol. 5) Potatoes, they are windy meat, But fermity it is a treat. Pudding's good when stuffed with plums, But let me have some lumpy-tums. Would you your tender offspring rear With bodies fit fatigues to bear, Pamper them not with dainty crums [sic], But bring them up on lumpy-tums. That Bradnop man, Jim Shaw, who slew Ten valiant French at Waterloo, His nervous arm dealt them their dooms, 'Cause he was reared o' lumpy-tums. Kind heaven, listen to my prayer, And grant me while I tarry here— I ask not wealth's uncounted sums But health and peace and lumpy-tums. |
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28 Dec 09 - 03:55 PM (#2797928) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums From: Joe_F I got some more advice on Usenet (soc.motss, of all places). It seems that the "oatmeal" called for is actually more like what Americans call oat *flour*, or at any rate contains a fair proportion of fine particles. Oat flour is widely available in the U.S., and I found it at my local supermarket. I tried it this morning, with sure-enough lumpy and quite edible results. It was not clear what the right ratio of milk to flour should be, but I tried 3:1, which is what I use for Quaker Oats (with water & a little milk). The result is a bit thick. I expect I'll try more milk, and mixing some coarse meal in with the flour. I see from the OED that "treacle" usually means molasses but may also include maple syrup, so my New England treatment is not technically wrong, tho I don't suppose one sees much maple syrup in Staffordshire. |
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28 Dec 09 - 05:55 PM (#2798024) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums From: Herga Kitty I last heard this sung a month ago at Bedworth folk festival, by Jeff Parton (of His Worship and the Pig) and Liz Holland, in their Pits and Pots show about Stoke, Staffordshire and the Potteries. Kitty |
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28 Dec 09 - 11:26 PM (#2798172) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums From: GUEST,999 'And some of the words are just gloriously descriptive. No wonder a poet like Philip wants to keep on the books "eye-server" - a hired hand who only works when his boss is looking; "wheelbarrow farmer" for a smallholder and "lumpy tums" for a children's bedtime dish of oatmeal and milk.' That's from UK site and I'd guess the tum refers to the tummy and the lumpy refers to the oatmeal which adds lumps to the stomach. I'd guess it took the place of milk and cookies today in many places. |
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29 Dec 09 - 07:07 AM (#2798299) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums From: GUEST,Steve T As noted above the song was sung by the excellent Muggins Fancy (Jeff Parton, Dave Bolton, John Haley and Pete Hall) based in Stoke in the 1970s. I think it may have been on their Spendid Congregations tape but I'm sure any of them would provide the tune. Jeff and Dave now perform as His Worship and the Pig |
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20 Jan 10 - 06:30 PM (#2817107) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums From: Joe_F It occurred to me that perhaps the oatmeal required had to be a mixture of coarse & fine (I do not know the state of the art of grinding in Staffordshire in the early 19th century). So I tried mixing in some coarse oatmeal with the oat flour, and I used a 4:1 ratio of milk to the mixture. The result was somewhat chewier, but there was no "puther of dry oatmeal". As a next experiment, I will try removing the saucepan from the heat immediately after strewing the flour. |
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28 Jan 10 - 07:56 PM (#2824088) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums From: Joe_F A friend of mine extracted the following recipe: http://european-culinary-travel.suite101.com/article.cfm/take_a_culinary_tour_of_derbyshire --------------------------- Derbyshire Oatmeal Porridge Called Lumpy-Tums The lumpy-tums of Derbyshire are a sort of oatmeal porridge. They were traditionally made by taking some oatmeal, squeezing it together slightly by hand then dropping it into a pan of boiling water. The lumps were then drained and eaten with milk poured over them. It is ideal for breakfast on a cold winter's day, or as a milky dessert. --------------------------- Evidently Derbyshire is not Staffordshire, where, the better to slay Frenchmen, one uses boiling milk. However, I did try squeezing the flour by hand first. That indeed made it lumpier, and I removed the saucepan from the heat immediately; but there was still no puther. |
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06 May 10 - 11:39 AM (#2901283) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums From: GUEST,Guest David Jones I learnt Lumpy Tums from the late Richard Fewtrell and see from an earlier posting that it was found in the Elissa volunteers songbook, this figures as Richard was involved in the restoration of the Elissa. As mentioned, it is also in Songs of the Black Country. Great recipes, sure I ate something similar in Warwickshire during the 1940s, I survived, but only just. |
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24 Apr 13 - 01:52 PM (#3508283) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums From: GUEST There was a chorus to this originally written by Kevin (Fred) Ford who sang Lumpy Tums with Sheila Beech. From barley we make home brewed ale From malt our whisky comes But from the oats in Staffordshire Does come our Lumpy Tums I believe Fred was also responsible for the tune used by the wondferful Muggins Fancy. Incidentally the group also included the equally wonderful Stuart Rushton. Arguably the best singer of the lot! |
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25 Apr 13 - 05:26 AM (#3508569) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums From: GUEST,JJ "the wondferful Muggins Fancy" - spot on! A fine bunch of singers and sorely missed, I'd give a lot to hear and see them in action again. JJ |
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25 Apr 13 - 01:52 PM (#3508770) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums From: GUEST,Don Wise Here's a text I exhumed from the then Derby Borough Library, Local History Section, back in 1973/ 74. Derbyshire Courier, ca. 1875,(Notes & Queries....) Potatoes they are windy meat Frumity it is a treat Pudding's good when stuffed with plums But let me have my Lumpty-tums Set the saucepan on the fire And bring the meal a little higher When the milk it boils and foams, That's the fire for lumpty-tums A poultice made of milk and meal A hungry stomach soon will heal When hunger through your bowels roams It is best cured with lumpty-tums There's pork and beef and ducks and geese Flesh, fish and fowl and bread and cheese You may give me these when supper comes But I'd rather sup on lumpty-tums That valiant man John Shaw who slew Ten of the French at Waterloo His nerves and arms dealt them their doom Why? He was raised on lumpty-tums You remember well Sir Robert OPeel Who kindly lowered the price of meal It's a poor look-out at poor folks homes When there's no meal for lumpty-tums Let pale-faced ladies sit all day Their health destroying strong green tea Its acrid juice their nerves benumbs But there's no such juice in lumpty-tums Look at our healthy country girls Their rosy cheeks and glossy curls The rosiest cheeks and plumpest limbs Have the girls that are reared on lumpty-tums View our labourers, a robust race Their strong built frames and ruddy face They've nerves like steel, hearts like drums Because they were reared on lumpty-tums Would you your tender offspring rear With bodies fit fatigues to bear Pamper them not with dainty crumbs But give them plenty of lumpty-tums When the labourer's work for the day is done He retires to his home with the setting sun And as he goes he sings and hums Because he thinks of his lumpty-tums There you have it. No tune, I'm afraid but have fun! |