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09 Sep 01 - 07:54 AM (#545568) Subject: What is a Monigan? From: Mad Maudlin From the liner notes on Steeleye's "Hark The Village Wait" (on "The Hills of Greenmore"): "A mighty song! But a little known one. This saga of a hare hunt and its variant 'The Granemore Hare' hail from around Keady in Co. Armagh. In the song the only one to get the rough end of the stick is the 'pussy'. Do we detect a Monigan in the hunt?" Please help an ignorant foreigner - what exactly is a Monigan? Thanks! |
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09 Sep 01 - 08:48 AM (#545582) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Monigan? From: Amos s far as I have been able to find out Monigan is a family name, and aside from a couple of peculiar local notions has never been used for any object. So I suspect the line is a local reference to someone by that name. Not authoritative, though! Regards, A |
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09 Sep 01 - 08:55 AM (#545585) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Monigan? From: Jim Dixon I suspect "Monigan" should have been "Mondegreen." Mondegreen is a term that has been explained and discussed many times in Mudcat. Click here for an example. So I think the writer is trying to say that the word was originally something else, and was changed to "pussy" because someone misheard it. I'm not familiar with the song, so I can't guess what word the writer had in mind, but you might be able to figure it out. |
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09 Sep 01 - 10:03 AM (#545612) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Monigan? From: Jeri Here's my theory. There's a mondegreen in the song, but I'm not sure where. The line "In the field fleet stubble this pussy did lie" sounds pretty strange. What's a "field fleet stubble?" Did it once sound something like "in the field she did stumble and this pussy did lie?" Just guessing. I believe "pussy" is a common name for the fox. I also believe that the term "Monagin" is a term for a Mondegreen in a fox hunging song ("Monagin, moffagin"), or it is on this recording. It's an intentional mondegreen of the word "mondegreen." |
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09 Sep 01 - 10:12 AM (#545622) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Monigan? From: Jeri And a "monagin" is mainly a misspelling. I meant "Monagan," a mondegreen for "Mondagreen." |
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09 Sep 01 - 10:17 AM (#545624) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Monigan? From: Mad Maudlin Thanks all for your ideas! Jeri, I've always thought that line was "in the fields of wheat stubble this pussy did lie/And Rory and Charlie, they both passed her by". You can never be sure with Terry Woods, though:-) Well, think I'll go hunting mondegreens now...eluvsive little creatures. (Any comments, ideas etc. very welcome.)
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09 Sep 01 - 10:19 AM (#545627) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Monigan? From: Mad Maudlin Duh - I meant "elusive". Hope Santa brings me a spell checker for Christmas this year. |
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09 Sep 01 - 10:24 AM (#545629) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Monigan? From: Malcolm Douglas "Puss" and "Pussy" in this song refers to the hare; the term was commonly used by hare-hunters, so there is no mis-hearing involved. I've always rather assumed that Monigan was somebody Terry Woods knew, and that he was having a wee joke at his expense involving another common meaning of the word "pussy". Conjecture only, of course; a deliberate double-mondegreen is an interesting thought. |
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09 Sep 01 - 10:46 AM (#545639) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Monigan? From: Jeri I think I'm having a massive attack of the stupids. I have a gig in a couple of hours, which could be interesting. In addition to explaining how I misspelled MONI-flippin'-GAN and managing to misspell it again in the process, I got the wrong animal as "pussy." I meant hare, not fox.
Thanks for the correction, Malcolm. I promise to be careful and not make eny moor misteaks. |
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09 Sep 01 - 11:41 AM (#545666) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Monigan? From: Mad Maudlin Jeri, love your double mondegroan! Btw, I also thought that it was a fox, not a hare (Thanks for getting that right,Malcolm!) , and got confused as to why they kept talking about hares all the time. Massive attack of the stupids, eh? You're not alone, it seems. Good luck for your gig! |
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09 Sep 01 - 11:56 AM (#545676) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Monigan? From: wysiwyg Kermit the Frog: "It's not easy being mondegreen." Yes, but at least the coloration protects them somewhat from predators. ~Susan |
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09 Sep 01 - 12:31 PM (#545694) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Monigan? From: Mad Maudlin Oooooh...shy little mondegreens, hiding in the underbrush...cute, Susan! (Sorry, I'm a little silly at the moment;-) |
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09 Sep 01 - 08:08 PM (#545888) Subject: Correction: Reynard the Fox^^ From: Snuffy REYNARD THE FOX in the DT has the following as the last two lines:
I give to you, Sir Monaghan, my whips, spurs and cap The version I have on CD by Sweeneys Men actually ends "ne'er looked for a gap" rather than "they look so ragged", which seems to make more sense to me. Wassail! V ^^ |
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10 Sep 01 - 10:19 AM (#546220) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Monigan? From: Mad Maudlin That's interesting, Snuffy! Nice food for thoughts here. |
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10 Sep 01 - 10:33 AM (#546230) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Monigan? From: CharlieA another suggestion is that it is a corruption of Morrigan - she was one of the 3 goddesses in celtic mythology - she was the mistress of the hunt. I could easily be wrong in this tho. Cxxx |
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10 Sep 01 - 10:58 AM (#546252) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Monigan? From: Malcolm Douglas Morrigan? Not even the smallest chance, I'm afraid! |
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10 Sep 01 - 11:03 AM (#546257) Subject: RE: Help: What is a Monigan? From: CharlieA ok fair enough - worth a try tho. *g* Cxxx |