X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!

13 Sep 01 - 07:31 PM (#549395)
Subject: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: X-Ed

For the record, I am a musician/artist. I have been a concientious observer of Mudcat for a year. The attack on my nation has prompted me to talk and take actions. I left work early on Tuesday to give blood. I am enraged by this attack. I am enraged at the lack of solidarity and lackadaisical attiudes I saw when suggesting Americans spill a pint of blood to help other Americans. Seems many people are watching this like the Gulf War.

I am here to stay, because it seems I have been accused of "flaming". I say "nay" to that. I apparently have an opposing point of view than many of my now fellow Mudcatters. The Shambles wanted me to shut-up. I won't. I am a Free Man in the first nation on earth to offer this. I am also a veteran of Panama & the Gulf. I am ready to go again if need be. My country was attacked by people who will keep coming back if they are not destroyed. To anyone who would shut another's mouth because they couldn't handle a debate is no better then any other oppressor.

When America is victorius in this 30 year war, I hope all those who are not worthy of freedom move to Madagascar and keep thier "ostrich attidude" and go the way of the dodo.

Fly the Flag. Give Blood. Be a Patriot of the United States.

Talk at'cha later.

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13 Sep 01 - 07:45 PM (#549415)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Sorcha

Welcome, Ed. Manners is all I really ask. Stick around.

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13 Sep 01 - 07:48 PM (#549422)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: M.Ted

You like to hear yourself talk, too. As far as I am concerned, from your other posts, you seem a bit trigger happy--I have come very close to telling you what Sham did, and more, but these are troubled times, and everyone gets a bit wound up--However, you aren't the only patriotic American, and most of the rest of us are smart enough to wait til the adrenalin wears off--if you can't, you're not welcome--

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13 Sep 01 - 07:53 PM (#549429)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: katlaughing

If not a flame, then definitely over-the-top trolling. Spot on, MTed.

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13 Sep 01 - 07:54 PM (#549431)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Amos

Well, Ed, we have a few ranters on board, and a few reasoners, and a few nay-sayers and a coupla wisenheimers. From what I have seen of your stuff, you're a red-blooded Yank with some of each in him.

No-one begrudges your patriotism. All of us from Stateside, I think, share it deeply. If it comes out in different words, or different suggestions than ytour own, I asxsume thats okay with you.

Do not shut up and welcometo the 'Cat to stay!!

A.

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13 Sep 01 - 07:54 PM (#549432)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Jon Freeman

Ed, I have stayed silent so far on most of the conversations here but I feel now should be a time to reflect rather than one to seek revenge.

I heard Bush on UK television indicating that America were going to lead a war on terrorism which at first glance seems reasonable but I think we need to look further into the why these acts happen and why people take such desparate extreme actions before there can be any real resolution - at least if this world is to move forward.

America makes it known that it is the most powerful country in the world and it is unlikely that other countries with grievances can stand up against the force in a "fair fight" - could this give reason for other methods being used?

America and my own country (the UK) get involved in conflicts elsewhere in the world. Do we really know whether the main motives for envolvement are ones of justice or of economics? If we were to look at other issues such as environmenal issues, one could easily take the view that financial goals overrule caring of the world we all have to live in...

Please don't get me wrong, I want to see the people who caused this terrible event brought to justice and I don't agree with terrorism. I just feel that MAYBE it is time for the world to reflect.

Jon (wrestling with his own thoughts and confusion in public)

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13 Sep 01 - 08:17 PM (#549451)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: DougR

Geeze! I never knew we had so many Thread "Cops" here on the mudcat. From whence does one obtain the authority to order a member off (if one does not approve of the posters messages)? Lighten up you two! It's still a free country isn't it?

Welcome X-Ed, from one who will not lecture you.

DougR

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13 Sep 01 - 09:15 PM (#549501)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow

It's still a free country isn't it Well, the Mudcat isn't exactly a country. But it's free.

That other thread came across as just another faceless troll trying to turn people against each other for the sake of it. Shooting fish in a barrel, as has been said. The point is with those kind of people there's no way of knowing they mean anything they say. So that's how it got treated, and if you've been lurking for a year X-Ed you'll understand the background to this.

In my case treating it that way meant staying clear of the thread, in other cases by unwelcoming comments. But clearly a misunderstanding.

Anyway, let's talk about music some time.

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13 Sep 01 - 09:24 PM (#549509)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Sorcha

Hey, Ted, what happens when you try to be rude?

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13 Sep 01 - 09:43 PM (#549524)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: catspaw49

Well Sorch, what the hell........I figure about 3-4 months max. So Xed out, have you met MAV?

Spaw

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13 Sep 01 - 09:50 PM (#549528)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: InOBU

Hi ya, X-ed:
I was going to offer you a completely unqualified welcome in to Mudcat... and do with one reservation... We Quakers did not fight in the Revolution or wars since then, for most of our existence, we have had this crap, leave the country if you don't support our wars leveled at us. We are still here. So, even though you are telling those of us, some of whom are my fellow Friends, others just friends, to leave our country, we will not respond by telling you to leave mudcat. So, welcome in, and try to speak with us in a civil manner.
Larry
PS we also intend to stay and fight for sanity without outward weapons.

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13 Sep 01 - 09:52 PM (#549532)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Amergin

there are more powerful weapons than a gun....and more deadly than a missile...

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13 Sep 01 - 09:56 PM (#549537)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: GUEST

Like a 757...

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13 Sep 01 - 10:00 PM (#549541)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Noreen

The dodo lived in Mauritius, not Madagascar, and as far as I know there are no ostriches on either island...

X-ed, could you explain what this means, please?

I am a Free Man in the first nation on earth to offer this

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13 Sep 01 - 10:05 PM (#549545)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Amergin

or an ignorant man, Guest....

and X-Ed...I'll be honest...I don't really give a fuck if you are here to stay or not...

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13 Sep 01 - 10:09 PM (#549547)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: catspaw49

I dunno' either Noreen.......i figured it was a lot like saying,

"I'm a Big Mac in the first restaurant in the world to offer indigestion."

Or at least that's what I thought it meant...........

Spaw

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13 Sep 01 - 10:14 PM (#549553)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull

I think this thread is a bit weird, I am not sure if people are arguing or not, if they are, they should stop.

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13 Sep 01 - 10:20 PM (#549563)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Bill D

I'm sure not looking forward to some "I'm more patriotic than thou" contest....

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13 Sep 01 - 10:27 PM (#549567)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Little Hawk

Is that a promise or a threat, X-Ed??? :-) All I can say, son, is you gonna have a lively time...

- LH

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13 Sep 01 - 10:38 PM (#549572)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Bert

Hi X-ed welcome aboard, I'll talk to anyone that has a name. Hey, I count amongst my friends DougR and Kendal, and Bill D and Spaw, great guys, as are all Mudders (guys here used in the Western sense as being inclusive of gals). We love people who disagree but as my darlin' Sorkie says - Be Polite.

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13 Sep 01 - 10:38 PM (#549573)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Art Thieme

I've always felt that if hell has a religion it is patriotism. It's simply a lousy job ahead for this nation. Let us go ahead and do it and get it done so we can all get back to discussing important things like if "John Henry" was a sexual allegory after all or whether Barbara Allen was a virgin or not. --------- Just no need to get pissed off and alienate ourselves all to hell. Just move on to the task at hand.

Keep your eyes on the prize !!!

Art Thieme

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13 Sep 01 - 10:43 PM (#549579)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: sophocleese

Ah "Patriotism is the last resort of a scoundrel" Can anybody remind me who was the originator of that particular remark? Its too late to call my mother and ask.

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13 Sep 01 - 10:50 PM (#549582)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull

The above quote was by Dr Johnson.

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13 Sep 01 - 10:51 PM (#549583)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: sophocleese

And here's the other lovely one I grew up with, " I know now that patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred and no bitterness toward anyone." Nurse Edith Cavell to her last English visitor before she was shot by a German firing squad in 1915.

I bow out of all "more patriotic than you" fights.

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13 Sep 01 - 10:53 PM (#549587)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: DougR

Well, Art, don't keep me in suspence! Was she?

Bert, you're a good man. I'd never thought of it that way, but your comment that you will talk to anyone with a name suits me just fine.

We may have our disagreements here on the Mudcat, but I'd venture to say (I don't want to get too maudlin here) if a true Catter needed help, we would all be there to help.

DougR

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13 Sep 01 - 10:56 PM (#549593)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Big Mick

Right on, Bro Art. And before you start your shite, Ed, understand that there are a couple of decorated vets in these precincts. Apparently your time in the warzone didn't teach you anything. So what was your MOS? Clerk? Cook? Honorable trades, for sure.

When you made the following suggestion: "I hope all those who are not worthy of freedom move to Madagascar and keep thier "ostrich attidude" and go the way of the dodo. you showed a fundamental lack of understanding of what it is that we vets fought to defend. It is like the folks who want to outlaw flag burning. The right to stick one's head in the sand, or burn a flag is what makes this democracy fundamentally different from most others. It is for the right to do these things and many others that many of us served. You really ought to bone up on this stuff, son, before you come spouting off. Makes you look like a clown.

With regard to your being here for good, let me just say welcome. I am glad you are here. Please learn how to use the search engines, and read the FAQ. Glad you decided to join us.

Mick

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13 Sep 01 - 11:12 PM (#549606)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: sophocleese

Thank you john in hull. I just looked up information about Edith Cavell on the net. Fascinating stuff. If you want to find out more you can look at this site.

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13 Sep 01 - 11:19 PM (#549616)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull

You are welcome, it's 4 AM here (UK) and I can't get to sleep, I have been trying to do a few lyric requests, but they are too difficult for me! I will count some sheep.:-)

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13 Sep 01 - 11:33 PM (#549627)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Murray MacLeod

Let's get our Dr Johnson quotes accurate. What the good Doctor said was "Patriotism is the last REFUGE of a scoundrel"

The point, as I always understood it, is that appealing to loyalty to one's own country is the act of a demagogue, of one who will say and do anything to gain public approval and political power.

Murray

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13 Sep 01 - 11:37 PM (#549635)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: sophocleese

You're right Murray, its been a long time since I used it, I'd forgotten.

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13 Sep 01 - 11:39 PM (#549636)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: katlaughing

Excellent quotes, sophocleese, thank you. And the link, too.

kat

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13 Sep 01 - 11:54 PM (#549649)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull

I still can't sleep :-(

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14 Sep 01 - 12:00 AM (#549654)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: sophocleese

john in hull, turn the computer and television off. Do some slow gentle stretching for fifteen minutes, pee if you need to, and lie down in bed in a darkened room for half an hour. Sleep well.

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14 Sep 01 - 12:04 AM (#549655)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: catspaw49

John, what you need is a deck of the new "Catspaw Scatology Cards." Take them to the can with you and see what you can predict, kinda' like tarot cards for the crapper. Just now I dealt them out and they said that when I stood up, I'd have to scratch my balls.....and damn if they weren't right! Great way to pass the time when you can't sleep.

Spaw

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14 Sep 01 - 12:06 AM (#549657)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Amos

And if that fails, go walk in one direction until exhausted and then turn around and walk home. You'll sleep like a baby.

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14 Sep 01 - 12:25 AM (#549676)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull

Cheers everybody, I am going to get into bed now, goodnight :-)

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14 Sep 01 - 12:54 AM (#549692)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Troll

Ignore the man behind the curtain.

troll

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14 Sep 01 - 01:06 AM (#549697)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: DougR

Well, X-Ed, Big Mick kind of threw down the gauntlet. Want to reply?

DougR

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14 Sep 01 - 06:33 AM (#549813)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: The Shambles

For the record. I suggested that we send a Mudcat personal message to our (then) GUEST or ignore the thread.

We could not do that of course, but we can now.

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14 Sep 01 - 06:35 AM (#549815)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: The Shambles

WAR....

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14 Sep 01 - 08:59 AM (#549894)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: M.Ted

Sorcha,

I don't need to try to be rude, it just comes naturally--I have to work at the other thing--

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14 Sep 01 - 10:40 AM (#549962)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Naemanson

Ed, your opinions are valid but they are not mine. Your patriotism is not being questioned here (by me) so I would not expect you to question mine. I may demostrate my patriotism differently than you do but that makes me no less a patriot.

I do not consider lining up with the firebrands to be an act of patriotism. I consider the acts of those who would turn us into a police state to be acts of treason. Earlier today one of my coworkers suggested we may have to carry a national ID card and looked at it as being a necessity. I see it as bein another step down the road to totalitarianism. It MUST be avoided. Our country is based on freedom and ANY limitations will be an indication that the terrorists have won.

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14 Sep 01 - 02:41 PM (#550159)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Steve in Idaho

Big Mick - Yes there are a few of us who have been there and done that. X-Ed is being amazingly polite all of a sudden. Maybe he was a cook. Good for him - I never liked cooking. C-Rats sucked but they were better than confiscated NVA rice. And the right to be - Ah sweet Liberty. With a shit load of Love my Brother - Steve

And as usual LH - your eloquence always leaves me breathless. BTW - I finally saw a picture of you on the "Pictures of members" page. Quite a dashing young man!! If I wasn't so fat I'd send a couple of mine in for perusal. :-)

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14 Sep 01 - 03:01 PM (#550176)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Jeri

Personally, I liked the chocolate chip pound cake. I also liked the meatballs in sauce and corned beef hash, because whatever that was that was supposed to be meat was chopped up and rendered less slab like. I didn't like the slabs - especially not the oil-slick shine when you held them just the right way in the light.

The Meals, Ready to Eat (MREs) were better. I still have fond memories of Chicken a la King (puke in a pouch) We once had a "Pork Patty, Dehydrated" bronzed and put on a plaque for a commander. (That was before that delicacy was phased out because it made a better practical joke than meal.)

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14 Sep 01 - 03:34 PM (#550193)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: GUEST

....what fond memories - I'd almost forgotten about the 'meat of many colors' ...in hindsight, maybe that mystery meat was supposed to be rainbow trout.

ditto the MREs...still, the most *edible* thing about them seemed to be the little packs of Chic-lets.

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14 Sep 01 - 03:52 PM (#550206)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: GUEST,Question

This is a real question, so don't climb my ass. Someone stated that Quakers are conscientious objectors and have not been involved in wars. However, do their beliefs prohibit them from serving as corpsmen or medics?

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14 Sep 01 - 04:03 PM (#550223)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Little Hawk

Norton1 - Gosh. I blush. My eloquence has sometimes embarrassed me. Actually, I'm not that young at all...I'm just thin. I wish I was that young.

As Dylan said of the young folks in the park on his 1997 album "Time Out Of Mind":

"All the young men with their young women looking so good Well, I'd trade places with any of them In a minute, if I could"

As long as I could still be me inside, that is.

Good wishes to you and all the rest hereabouts!

- LH

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14 Sep 01 - 05:58 PM (#550331)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: catspaw49

Geeziz Mac, you post all of that Chesterton stuff and my Big Mac line doesn't even get a snicker huh? Oh well.........Looks to me like X-ED has gone off to stay elsewhere.....been X'ed out you might say.

Bye-bye Ed.....and AMF

Spaw

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14 Sep 01 - 06:17 PM (#550351)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Noreen

*snicker* Spaw, you know we always snicker at your postings, just in case they're funny... I thought you knew that?

I took the Big Mac explanation literally and found it aided my comprehension somewhat. Thank you. :0)

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14 Sep 01 - 06:38 PM (#550371)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow

Here's some snickers (I'm with Noreen on this - your succintly clarified his meaning. I think.)

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14 Sep 01 - 06:50 PM (#550385)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)

Mick (post 13-Sep-10:56) and Naemanson (14-Sep- 10:40) have stated what I could say better than I possibly could.


I'm only writing now, to suggest that each of us who plan to stay here start our very own threads to let people know that we're here.

:-P

Rich

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14 Sep 01 - 07:11 PM (#550407)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Bill D

gee...with some writing to say they're leaving, and the rest writing to say they're staying, we'll have no time to argue, huh?

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14 Sep 01 - 07:17 PM (#550415)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow

And I suppose the naked GUESTS could have threads explaining that they aren't here at all, but they aren't going to go either...

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14 Sep 01 - 07:29 PM (#550428)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Bill D

yeah, RIGHT *wry grin*...like being welcomed to Eden by the snake!

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14 Sep 01 - 07:37 PM (#550434)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull

I am staying as well, it is nice here.How can I join the inner clique? What does intellent mean?

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14 Sep 01 - 07:58 PM (#550446)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Paul from Hull

*G*

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14 Sep 01 - 10:07 PM (#550501)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Jeri

To the question by Question, I'm not sure of Quaker (Society of Friends ?) beliefs. What I can tell you is that even corpsmen/medics carry defensive weapons and have to train how to use them - again, in defense only.

P.S. I also liked the cheese and hot chocolate.

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14 Sep 01 - 10:11 PM (#550503)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Bill D

you know, if I ever get to England, I will be sure to visit Hull...I think I'd like it there...*big grin* (will bring 'inner clique' membership manuals)

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14 Sep 01 - 10:15 PM (#550505)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull

Bill-You would be very welcome in Hull, if you get to UK and can't find Hull just listen for the folk music & follow your ears. :-)

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14 Sep 01 - 10:33 PM (#550521)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: catspaw49

All you guys in Hull need to be on the lookout for X-ED since he doesn't seem to be around here. He'll be the guy with the saber and the crazed look in his eyes with the single digit IQ......a lot like a Klansman.

Spaw

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15 Sep 01 - 10:25 AM (#550729)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Steve in Idaho

Quakers - I have several friends that belong to this group. None that I know of served in the military. My two best Friends, the Quakers call themselves "Friends," served as medical assistants in Viet Nam during the war. Their clinic build prosthetics for anyone who needed them. And due to the propensity of mines a lot of folks needed them. They built them for NVA, VC, Vietnamese, kids, adults, and even lent a hand with an occasional American.

I don't know if this answers your question but Quakers, the Amish, 7th Day Adventists, and one other that escapes me now don't provide formal military service. All but the Amish I believe do provide alternative service much the same as our Conscientious Objecters did. Two years service in hospitals related to military members injured in line of duty.

Peace - Steve

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15 Sep 01 - 12:23 PM (#550777)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: GUEST,Frank

Real patriotism is quiet, medatative, thoughtful,proactive and not boastful, loud, or rhetorically bombastic. It's not propaganda or jingoism. It's a kinda' faith.

The beauty of folk music is that it affirms our cultural heritage. The preserving of the best of our culture by participating in it is a kind of meaningful patriotism.

There are patriots and then there are patriots.

Frank

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15 Sep 01 - 12:28 PM (#550781)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Paul from Hull

I couldnt agree more, Frank.

I just wish I could have put it as well as you have.

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15 Sep 01 - 12:30 PM (#550784)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: GUEST,Trasno

Hi Ed,

Glad that you're here to......

Shit!Where'd he go?

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15 Sep 01 - 12:33 PM (#550787)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull

Well said Frank.

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15 Sep 01 - 01:26 PM (#550813)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: catspaw49

Best thing I've read in days Frank.....Simply the truth. Well spoken. Thank you.

Spaw

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15 Sep 01 - 01:57 PM (#550842)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: InOBU

Hi Norton 1 : Thanks, very accurate. I was going to say that we did serve as medics, and also served the wounded of both sides. I was a member of the Int. Assoc. of Combat Photographers for the work I did as a photo journalist in the 70's in Belfast, my way of helping to inform about war to someday end it as a way of solving problems. Look, it is very easy... Play chess? The first thing you ask is what does the opponant want me to do by his move, and we seem to be doing just what benlaudin wants us to do. Let's be smarter, forget Afganistan and go after the Swiss. Tell them if they do not stop banking for terrorists, and help us find out if benlaudin has assetts there, we and every other civilized nation will take all our money out of their banks, let the criminals try and trade only with each other. Lets get smart here.
Larry

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15 Sep 01 - 02:09 PM (#550850)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: The Shambles

"I hate the Swiss, bloody nuetrals". This was the last line a 60s TV sketch I remember, with John Cleese.

A UK man and a German, who had been in conversation, and trying to find common ground, discovered that both of them had not seen each others countries but had both bombed them, during WW2. Eventually they both agreed to blame the Swiss.

With apoligies to any Swiss readers but Larry has a good point.

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15 Sep 01 - 02:29 PM (#550866)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: catspaw49

Larry had a GREAT point as did you Sham...also liked another of your posts on another thread.

A boxer knows that the surest way to win is to wear out your opponent with a lot of work to the body. Terrorism is a multiheaded beast and headhunting will not end it. Just like in boxing, we have to take away the strength lodged in the body and that means cutting off their supplies of money as well as a place to hide and train. Pressure is the key and not wild swings at the head.

Spaw

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15 Sep 01 - 05:32 PM (#550992)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: DougR

Anybody want a good easy recipe for chocolate pudding?

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15 Sep 01 - 08:50 PM (#551110)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)

Larry might have just posted the smartest remark this site has seen in some time.

And yeah Doug, I'd love a good easy recipe for chocolate pudding.

Rich

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15 Sep 01 - 09:29 PM (#551141)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Steve in Idaho

The Swiss!! Freekin brilliant!!! No money no war - I Love IT!!!

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15 Sep 01 - 09:49 PM (#551159)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: catspaw49

And now at 75 posts and with the sun sinking slowly in the western sky, we bid a fond adieu, so long, and farewell, to X-ED.........Aloha Ed, and may I say it's been less than a pleasure reading your other posts and so very good not to know you better. May the door not smack your ass on the way out......and if it does, who gives a fuck?

Spaw

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15 Sep 01 - 09:55 PM (#551161)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Paul from Hull

Hehehehe...

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15 Sep 01 - 10:17 PM (#551172)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: SINSULL

Guess he's gone back to being a "concientious" observer of Mudcat. Both intellent and concientious. Impressive.

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15 Sep 01 - 11:34 PM (#551238)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Bill D

name change...it's now Y-Ed..or maybe Y-not Ed

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15 Sep 01 - 11:56 PM (#551254)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Lonesome EJ

I want to congratulate Larry for making a brilliant remark about the Swiss and their notorious neutrality and unwillingness to reveal their clients. Even the damned Nazis buried the loot they stole from their victims there. You know this is where Usama has his little interest-bearing money market account. But do you seriously think anyone can pressure the Swiss? Every powerful figure in the world has an account there, lots of them with pilfered funds, embezzled treasuries, drug money, and more. They won't want their own personal ox gored by opening that can of worms.(two cliches for the price of one in that last line!)

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16 Sep 01 - 12:06 AM (#551259)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: DougR

Ok, Rich, here it is (and it really IS rich):

2 cups (12 oz.) semisweet chocolate chips

1/3 cup confectioners' sugar

1 cup milk (I used 2%)

1/4 cup butter or margerine

Whipped topping and minature semisweet chocolate chips (optional).

Place chocolate chips and confectioners' sugar in a blender or food processer; cover and process until the chips are coursely chopped. In a saucepan over medium heat, bring milk and butter to a boil. Add to blender, cover and process until chips are melted and mixture is smooth.

Pour into six individual serving dishes. Refrigerate. Garnish wiht whipped topping an minature chips if desired. yield: 6 servings.

There ya' go Rich, enjoy!

DougR

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16 Sep 01 - 03:16 AM (#551378)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: catspaw49

I'm sure the now departed but never missed Y-ED would have liked the name given to the operation of securing the US borders and Airspace...."Operation Noble Eagle." I wonder if Old Ben had succeeded in getting the turkey in as the Official Bird, if this would be "Operation Perky Turkey?"

Spaw

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19 Sep 01 - 06:39 PM (#554376)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: X-Ed

Hell-Oooooooo. Gee, it seems the request for being "polite" pertains only to me.

My military MOS was 11-B. How'bout that? I then entered the reserves and went 13-B DI. What should I have learned?

As for my absence, I have a real life. Currently I am worried about having my life and my family's disrupted due to the lack of action from the peoples of Islamic nations.

We as Americans are the most generous loving people on the planet. We have always had a policy of humane treatment towards our enemies. We have sought peace for a hundred years. Sadly, that isn't good enough for many. I hear so much about "innocents". Well it is not our fault that people around the world choose to live in backward, uncivilized police states. Ask yourself, Why do Americans enjoy freedom and prosperity?

We insist on it. I also hear this malarkey about "terrorists are a small minority in Islam!" Gee, this "minority" has had much pull in policy throughout the Middle East for 35 years. Seems the only real minority are those that are actually willing to throw their lives away for Allah.

I feel the time has come to say; either you're for us or against us.

I am also hearing Islamic citizens say it is sad what happened....but.... it is time Americans know what they have been going through. It wasn't our war, until 11 Sept. In fact, 246 Marines were killed in 1982 acting as "peacekeepers".

Force is the only way this thing will ever be resolved. Sorry, but that is the nature of the beast. I'm sure the real innocents will come out to support us when we move to kill our enemies. Plenty of Germans sided w/ us in WWII. As far as I'm concerned there are no real innocents because the Islamic people have allowed the terrorists to exist and operate. How would the U.S. govt. react to rogue citizens going to other contries and committing atrocities.

Tired of it all. Aren't you people? Do you really think talk will end this? When someone wants to fight they will find a way. Ever deal with bullies in school? Gettin' teach didn't stop'em. Kickin' their asses did.

Now stay polite......

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19 Sep 01 - 07:21 PM (#554403)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow

let the criminals try and trade only with each other

That's still be a pretty big economy. And a lot of respectable people would be in there.

You know there's a certain sort of quasi-patriotic rhetoric that seems intended to try to turn people against the country concerned. "We are wonderful; and you are the dregs, compared to us" - that kind of stuff.

I think anything like that, which is surely designed to encourage people dislike the country being praised is in fact the reverse of patriotism.

Frank summed up true patriotism for me.

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19 Sep 01 - 08:21 PM (#554452)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: X-Ed

Refreash me on a good definition of patriotism. Besides, patriotism isn't teh big issue. It is protecting American lives and property in the future.

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19 Sep 01 - 08:36 PM (#554464)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Jon Freeman

X-Ed, what ever this about, it is about the world not just America. It is quite possible that US policies (as well as UK, etc.) have helped create a situation whereby these lunatics are able to get support from otherwise "middle of the road" people.

Terrorism has to go but your tactics and attitudes could well end up setting more people against America and is unlikely to gain any sympathy from countries other than your own.

Whether you like it or not, you still need the outside world... Do you really want to see the war that nobody can win?

Jon

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20 Sep 01 - 12:12 AM (#554614)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Peg

Too much testosterone. It's a problem right now.

And I mean that in the figurative sense.

Waving our proverbial dicks around and "kicking ass" because "we can" and "that's what we do, we're AMERICAN" is NOT going to solve this.

T-shirt slogans are not what we need now.

Thoughtfulness is needed. Empathy. A sense of history. Mercy. Forethought, for fuck's sake.

I agree with Jon. This is not just about America. Life on earth hangs in the balance now. The fat, bratty little rich kids with no social skills are really not the ones to best the bullies at this time.

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20 Sep 01 - 01:34 AM (#554652)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull

I have just re-read this thread.
Larry- I think you have made one of the most sensible comments in this whole debate.
X=Ed-I think you are a fool, I am glad you are not in charge, I would not let you run a cake stall.john

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20 Sep 01 - 01:13 PM (#554912)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: UB Ed

Peg, we just ordered another 150 tshirts! Too late to send 'em back. They don't say anything patriotic, but do say "pog mo thon" and "Irish-American Pub Music."

Ed

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20 Sep 01 - 02:39 PM (#555001)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: M.Ted

If X-Ed really means what he says, it is very easy for him to move back to active status--too late for the first plane out,but there will be more! You sound like a really true believer, buddy, and I think we've got just the Crusade for you! We'll miss you, though, good buddy--cause it takes all kinds to keep the discussion threads interesting!

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20 Sep 01 - 02:58 PM (#555019)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Steve in Idaho

Lord bless the Grunts. Truly Hard Core folks. If you go Ed be safe, if you don't go, stay here. Like M.Ted says - It takes all kinds to make it interesting. Peace - Steve

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20 Sep 01 - 03:22 PM (#555047)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: GUEST,03

I just checked out this thread. Wow!! Am I the only person here who truely believes that Ed is a badass reincarnation of Teddy Roosevelt, Chesty Puller, Smedley Butler, and George Patton combined. Instead of activating a bunch of pogues, let's just parachute Ed into the Anti-Taliban held section of Afghanistan. I am sure that he could motivate those Montagnards and march them into Kabul in a matter of days.

I love this man so much that I would undergo the humiliation of becoming an Air Marine (or worse a squid) if it meant that I could serve as his door gunner or Corpsman. Just say the word big guy and I am back off the block.

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20 Sep 01 - 04:55 PM (#555136)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: X-Ed

An essay forwarded by a UC Berkeley professor: > > Dear Friends, > The following was sent to me by my friend Tamim Ansary. Tamim is an > Afghani-American writer. He is also one of the most brilliant people I > know in this life. When he writes, I read. When he talks, I listen. > Here is his take on Afghanistan and the whole mess we are in. > -Gary T. > > Dear Gary and whoever else is on this email thread: > > I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the > Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this > atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What > else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing > whether we "have the belly to do what must be done." > > And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am > from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've > never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who > will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. > > I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no > doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in > New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters. > > But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the > government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant > psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political > criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you > think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of > Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not > only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They > were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone > would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of > international thugs holed up in their country. > > Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The > answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. > A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 > disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. > There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these > widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the > farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons > why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban. > > We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone > Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. > Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? > Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their > hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from > medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. > > New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at > least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the > Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away > and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they > don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over > Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the > criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making > common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people they've > been raping all this time > > So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with > true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there > with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what > needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill > as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about > killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's > actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some > Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin > Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any > troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let > us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will > other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're > flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. > > And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he > wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's > all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might > seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam > and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a > holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to > lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably > wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the > war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but > ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else? > > Tamim Ansary

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20 Sep 01 - 04:58 PM (#555138)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Steve in Idaho

Guest 03 - You have GOT to be an 0331!! Chesty, Smedley, George - Lew Walt is the only missing link, with the notable exception of Vic Krulak Sr.. But a squid?

I don't know - - - Steve LMAO

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21 Sep 01 - 12:40 PM (#555882)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: X-Ed

Gee, I'm touched.

I don't hold Patton in the highest regard. Who is Chesty Puller, & Smedley Butler?

As for being a true believer, I am not. But I do believe in killing those who would kill what I love.

Jhn in hull, you are a flamer. If you want to call me a fool, you should try and convince me.

Jon Freeman, the outside world seems to need the U.S.A. Why else would we keep getting presured into conflicts that don't concern us (the Balkins, Somolia, Europe)?At least the Middle East has oil. As for a war that nobody can win; the way it has been handled all these many years is what CAN'T be won. I think operations can be executed in a humane fashion. We offered the Iraqi safe haven if they surrendered. They were all treated well. As were Panamanians, Somalians and even Cubans.

We have been attacked over and over again for GOD'S SAKE! If they want to resist us in taking down terrorists that would destroy us,I say they are the enemey too. We were going to fight eventually anyway. At least the Soviets were smart enough to never attack us. This mind set that I am hearing,of it being our fault this happened,is just ludicrous. That goes fot the UK, too! Our lives have been disrupted in a major way. this pisses me off to the extreme! I have things I want to do instaed of going out and kill ragheads! It has to end now.

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21 Sep 01 - 02:41 PM (#556000)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Big Mick

He called you a fool. What he should of said is that you are speaking foolishly. You do manage to cover it with some fairly cogent points, but the predicate upon which you build your argument is flawed. Your premise is that people are acting like it is the fault of the U.S. that it was attacked. That isn't what is being put forward. If you look at my posts, and others, in the threads you will see advocacy that we go in, in a precise way and as many times as is necessary, and get these bastards. But then, and now, we need to make a concerted effort to understand the whys of the attack. For example, I would point out that I hate everything that Saddam Hussein stands for. But the embargo we put on Iraq killed thousands. Imagine your own children dying because of it and then imagine your feelings. Unfortunately, you will likely come up with "I would hate Saddam" as a reasoning. But that is because you won't put yourself in their position. All we really had to do was embargo the oil producing and refining equipment, in a no horseshit manner, and we would have cut off his money. Without his money, he only has the stick and not the carrot. And ask yourself, X-Ed. Why is it only a heinous, "the world needs to respond", crime when it is perpetrated against us? If the rest of the world were to take a "It is between Bin Ladden and the U.S." attitude as so many Americans have taken in the past, what would be your response.

I pose most of this to provoke thought. I firmly believe that the nature and scope of this atrocity demand a strong response. I support that President in his desire to bring them to justice. But methodology for doing so could change my view. Cruise missile attacks on a people who are already reeling, and have very little to do with all this, would change me.

And one last question. In the "War on Terrorism" who gets to decide what a terrorist is? Would Menachem Begin, George Washington, Padraic Pearce, Chief Joseph and others fit the definition?

Enought rambling. Gotta get back to work.
All the best,

Mick

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21 Sep 01 - 03:36 PM (#556055)
Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Naemanson

Anyone who thinks we can engage the terrorist organizations and win is thinking foolishly. We do not have the weapons ro the patience to fight this war. Within 6 months to a year people will begin questioning the expenditure and effort. Soon after the Secretary for Homeland Defense will become just another figurehead of a political appointment used to reward campaign contributors.

Consider what we have and what we are up against. We have aircraft carriers full of high speed fighters and cruise missles. Have you seen the pictures of what the enemy has? They have some mud huts and barracks in a desert somewhere. If there are any offices or storage areas they are mixed in among the city buildings. So we blow up a few tn barracks. The people scatter out into the hills and villages and just wait for us to get tired. In the meantime we blow up a few military installations belonging to the host countries and kill a few innocent civilians and suddenly we have bred a whole new crop of potential terrorists.

We cannot win this with guns and bombs. We cannot use violence to defeat these people. There must be a better way.

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