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30 Sep 01 - 05:48 PM (#562068) Subject: Advice Needed From: GUEST,Carole Anne Hi, I have been lurking for months and noticed that several of you seem to be involved in the music industry and am hoping you could give me a bit of advice. Here's what happened: Friday night,I went to a show at which two male "fans" got so far out of hand it was scary. They were roaming the crowd fondling girls with such gusto that I returned home with bruises in some very private areas both above and below the waist. When this started I twice tried to alert security, only to be told "Our job is to protect the band not you." and "If you don't like it don't come to shows". Now what I would like to know is this: First is this Actually the case at most venues you have dealt with, that security will not help the fans when things of this nature are going on? Does the band who is preforming have any control over the situation with security? As in if you hear of a security angency that preforms this badly can you say to the venues "do not hire ABC Security"? And last if things like this were happening at your shows would your mangagement want to hear about it ( or if you are mangagement would you want to know)? Thanks for your input Carole Anne |
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30 Sep 01 - 06:18 PM (#562093) Subject: RE: Advice Needed From: Jane2001 I would think you have some kind of legal case against the management. I remember a case here in Grimsby about a waitress being sexually harassed at work by a chef. The owner of the restaurant was heavily fined, even though he did not know it was happening because he had not provided a safe place for her to work. Nobody should have to put up with this. I should think you could get a solicitor on a "no win, no fee" basis. They deserve to be made an example of. By the way I'm assuming you're in U.K.? |
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30 Sep 01 - 06:26 PM (#562099) Subject: RE: Advice Needed From: GUEST,Carole Anne I am in the US, but the concert was in St Catherine's Ont,Canada. And thank you for the advice :) Carole Anne |
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30 Sep 01 - 06:40 PM (#562108) Subject: RE: Advice Needed From: Liz the Squeak I think someone has the er... wrong end of the stick there, but thanks for the tip - will remember it next time I get felt up on the Tube.... maybe a taste of their own medicine..... LTS |
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30 Sep 01 - 06:58 PM (#562120) Subject: RE: Advice Needed From: DougR A well placed knee to the "feeler's" groin might take care of the situation, Carole Anne, but I can understand why you didn't do it. It is the venue's responsibility to insure the safety of the audience. I feel certain that management of a reputable public venue would want to know about it. As I recall, the promoter (or the venue if it is the promoter) pays for security. And security was used to protect both the artists and the audience. Some acts may provide their own security, of course, and if they pay for it, their security people would be responsible for protecting the act. DougR |
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30 Sep 01 - 07:16 PM (#562128) Subject: RE: Advice Needed From: Bernard Legal action could be expensive, but bad (truthful!) publicity will do the security firm's reputation far more harm!! Letters to local newspapers and the police, with copies sent to the promoters and venue management should be quite effective. Be careful to stick to the facts, avoid histrionics, and you should get positive results. This sort of behaviour is deplorable. Why do security guards wear big peaked caps? To hide the lobotomy scars!! |
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30 Sep 01 - 11:12 PM (#562233) Subject: RE: Advice Needed From: GUEST You ARE Quick Mr. Joe
My posting which was a "troll/flame" existed barely long enough for the poor misfortunate Squeaky Liz to catch it.
there IS a guardian against the barbarians.
Power corrupts and Max-imum power corrupts maximally. Yeah, Guest, I know, the rush of power gets to me at times. I'm so sorry that you were offended. If anybody really wants to know how crude our guest can be, send me an e-mail or a personal message, and I'll send you a copy of his/her handiwork that I deleted. -Joe Offer- |
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30 Sep 01 - 11:24 PM (#562246) Subject: RE: Advice Needed From: DonMeixner Yes it is true. You should be safe where ever you go. But the fact is the cops can't stop most crimes, they can really only investgate crime. And security is right, if you don't want to get mauled, stay out of places where you might get mauled. Retaliation is great in hind site. But a kick in the groin won't do much good on its own and it won't always bring a guy down. A kick to the side of the knee will get them on the ground and then a kick in groin will add insult to injury. If it happens again. Take the man down and start screaming you were attacked! My sister used to carry a small modelers can of spray paint in her purse to mark the guy who attacked her. Its as easy to use as pepper spray and ppotentially more viscious. Don |
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30 Sep 01 - 11:32 PM (#562252) Subject: RE: Advice Needed From: Marion Carole, if you still have the bruises, you might want to consider taking some pictures or asking a friend to take them. So if you to decide to take it up with the police, you'll have some extra ammunition. Do you know any of the other women who were assaulted? If so, you should be asking them to write down what they remember about these men and what happened. Even if you're undecided now about whether you'll make a complaint (against the assaulters or against the venue), if you think it's possible that you will, it's best to collect evidence (the pictures, or written accounts of the incident) sooner rather than later. Marion |
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30 Sep 01 - 11:54 PM (#562263) Subject: RE: Advice Needed From: SINSULL Crowded subway technique #14: Smile and pretend to enjoy the grope. Even go so far as to guide his hand. Then when he is totally relaxed and distracted, bend his fingers backwards. He will scream in pain and everyone will know what he was up to as he skulks away. Crowded subway technique #3: one large, sharp hatpin. Crowded subway technique #8: Pick your nose and look for a place to put it. I watched as a rather sleezy man groped a poor unsuspecting "out of towner" one morning. I pushed over in her direction, smiled and said "Hi Ann! Do you know THIS man" as loudly as possible. People turned; he froze and skulked away. She cried. Shouldn't have gone anywhere alone if she was that intimidated. Carole Ann - please tell me this was not a Peter, Paul, and Mary concert? Or Pete Seeger? Neil Young, maybe... I got felt up at the ballet once. Never at the opera. That must mean something. Sorry for the ramble. Can't sleep. |
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01 Oct 01 - 12:21 AM (#562277) Subject: RE: Advice Needed From: JB Michaels Carole Anne, First of all, are you OK? Secondly, I'm afraid that unless you did something about it with management on the scene at the time of the incident, you are going to have an extremely difficult time of getting them to do anything about it. IF you DID, then you should already know what the venue's management is doing about it. One previous response was to take pictures, and this is a good idea. Perhaps a look at the assault evidence that took place on their property might make the proprietors do something to catch the assailants in the future. (It should certainly get them to give you at least a lifetime pass to their establishment!) Take care, and good luck! JB Michaels |
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01 Oct 01 - 01:33 AM (#562320) Subject: RE: Advice Needed From: Bert SINSULL is right, a brooch pin or any other kind of pin will do if you don't have a hatpin handy. My second wife Lou always used to make sure she had a pin in her lapel for just that reason. |
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01 Oct 01 - 03:29 AM (#562364) Subject: RE: Advice Needed From: GUEST,Peter from Essex My girlfriend tells me that placing a stilleto heel on the offenders instep then applying full bodyweight is quite effective. |
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01 Oct 01 - 07:43 AM (#562447) Subject: RE: Advice Needed From: GUEST,Carole Anne SINSULL Asked: Carole Ann - please tell me this was not a Peter, Paul, and Mary concert? Or Pete Seeger? Neil Young, maybe... Actually It was a Gret Big Sea Show. And I can tell you that this is * not* normal for their shows. Which is why I have taken to going to them. Pictures Have been taken. And I have been Checked out by my Doc, I am fine just a bit upset. Thank you :) |
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01 Oct 01 - 11:21 AM (#562559) Subject: RE: Advice Needed From: Gypsy Carol Ann, you have the right to go to a show, unmolested. Cannot believe that the guard was so crass as to make that statement. Perhaps an official letter to the security company, describing the incident, is in order. Was in a similar situation, and talked to the boss. Works wonders. |
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01 Oct 01 - 11:43 AM (#562574) Subject: RE: Advice Needed From: MMario Anyone being groped to the point they are left with bruises definately has a complaint! Hopefully these "fans" will be identified and banned - or shunned - with any luck - jailed. In crowds it is not impossible to have accidental contact that is construed as "groping" - and quite possibly even more likely to have intentional groping that is passed off as "accidental" (hey - I'm not saying it is right, but it *does* happen) but to leave bruises goes WAY beyond any sort of casual contact into assault. |