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05 Oct 01 - 07:43 PM (#565985) Subject: Hughie the Graham, Robin Willaimson's From: GUEST,underhval@hvi.net |
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05 Oct 01 - 07:46 PM (#565986) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hughie the Graham, Robin Willaimson' From: GUEST,underhval@hvi.net to clarify- we have the lyrics, they're just incomprehensible in places. anyone have any insight as to who or what a "charion creever" [or reaver or greaver] might be, or what exactly the author is talking about?? thanks!! sarah |
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05 Oct 01 - 08:26 PM (#566008) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hughie the Graham, Robin Willaimson' From: Helen Hi Sarah, Could you post the lyrics for us please. It helps when people are discussing the meanings, and sometimes the meaning can be deduced from the context. Helen |
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06 Oct 01 - 05:46 PM (#566393) Subject: Lyr Add: HUGH THE GRAEME (version by the Corries) From: Lin in Kansas This site click has some history on this song—don't know how accurate the history is, but it made interesting reading... supposedly the last verse was in a version by Robert Burns. I don't, however, see anything resembling "charion reiver" in these lyrics--?? Lin Hugh the Graeme (version by the Corries) Our lords ha'e to the hunting gane, A-hunting o' the fallow deer, And they hae gripped Hughie Graham, For stealing o' the bishop's mare. "Well lowse my right hand free", he said And put my brand intae the same, He's ne'er in Carlisle toon the day, Daur tell the tale tae Hughie Graham, They've ta'en him tae the gallows hill, And he looke`d up at the gallows tree, Yet ne'er did colour leave his cheek, Nor did he even blink his e'e. And ye may gi'e my brother James, My sword that's bent in the middle clear, And bid him come at twelve o'clock, To see me pay the bishop's mare. And ye may gi'e to my brother John, My sword that's bent in the middle broon, And bid him come at two o'clock, To see his brother Hugh cut down. And ye may tell my kith and kin, I never did disgrace their blood, And if they meet the bishop's cloak, To mak' it shorter by the hood. In Burns' version of the song Stirling is the scene of the excecution. According to this version, it was for the Bishops honour that Hugh had to die. The ballad ends with Hugh's last words... Remember me to Maggy my wife The niest time ye gang o'er the moor Tell her she staw the Bishop's mare Tell her she was the Bishop's whore And ye may tell my kith and kin I never did disgrace their blood And when they meet the Bishop's cloak To mak' it shorter by the hood
Historical notes by Robert Murray, copyright 2001 |
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06 Oct 01 - 05:48 PM (#566394) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hughie the Graham, Robin Willaimson' From: Susanne (skw) Please do, Sarah. I have a set of lyrics, but can't find the term you mention in them. There is a set in the Digitrad here, but it's quite different from Roy Williamson's version on 'Live from Scotland vol 1'. |
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08 Oct 01 - 11:34 AM (#567425) Subject: Hughie the Graham/Robin Williamson versi From: GUEST,underhval@hvi.net to clarify a thread which I started a couple of days ago [and now can't find- where did it go :(], there are two verses in Robin Williamson's version of Hughie the Graham, which mention a mondegreenesque term: Then up spoke the Lord of Justice Yet an ill death may he die For oh, the {charion creever?reaver?greaver?] Hugie the Graham, you'll be hanged high As sure as there's a God in Heaven I give my soul to his command For the fatherless child and the border widow Have often blessed the {creever?greaver/reaver'?s hand} any help in translation much appreciated : ) Sarah |
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08 Oct 01 - 11:48 AM (#567434) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hughie the Graham/Robin Williamson v From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler A real expert will probably give you an accurate answer but weren't reivers the cross-border raiders who stole sheep, cattle etc between Scotland and Northumberland? RtS |
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08 Oct 01 - 02:11 PM (#567522) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hughie the Graham, Robin Willaimson' From: Malcolm Douglas Did the Corries say where they got that one? On the face of it, it looks like a slightly modernised and drastically shortened set, with Carlisle substituted for Stirling, of the text collected by Burns, who added some verses of his own before contributing to the Scots Musical Museum. It retains the references to swords bent in the middle which appears to be a corruption of the more usual pointed with the metal.
Roger the Skiffler has pointed out in the second thread that Sarah has started on this song that reiver or reaver is a perfectly good reading for one of the problematic words, as the Graemes or Grahams were a well-known family of bandits. I don't know about the other word; carrion might I suppose be a vague possibility. Neither term appears in any of the traditional sets I've seen; great though my affection for him is, Robin Williamson has never been renowned for faithfulness to his sources. He is perfectly capable of having made that bit up himself.
There are two sets in the DT; HUGHIE GRAME, which Susanne linked to above, is taken from a record by Ewan MacColl, and appears to be a cut-down version of Child's E text (Buchan's MSS) and HUGHIE GRAHAM, which is Child's B text; the one from Burns. |
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08 Oct 01 - 07:09 PM (#567766) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hughie the Graham, Robin Willaimson' From: Susanne (skw) No they don't, Malcolm. There are no notes on the album, and the intro doesn't yield anything. |
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10 Oct 01 - 01:32 PM (#569103) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hughie the Graham, Robin Willaimson' From: GUEST,sarah hey, thanks everyone! my problem with not finding the thread was not hitting the refresh button. anyway, I'll certainly go with "reaver" now but what about charion? we need our dictionary of archaic northumbrian pejoratives!! whatver it meant, it was not meant to be a compliment! |
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10 Oct 01 - 06:22 PM (#569316) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hughie the Graham, Robin Willaimson' From: Snuffy carrion reiver? WassaiL! V |